DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 198 Joined: 04-Mar-2009 Last visit: 27-Sep-2015 Location: That Great Gig in the Sky
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Any one growing mushies and have some 5-meo to spare? maybe some lab rats to do some LD50 testing, and a chimpanzee or two to see the changes in behavior. http://www.cognitivelibe...g/shulgin/blg/index.htmlWhat other testing would need to be done to see if what ever comes out of those mushrooms is safe? I would love to be the first person to do a drug, after it was proven safe of course. By allowing this message to pass through your cornea, into your retina, you accept it as is and agree to my disclaimer regarding my posts that they are a complete falsification by doing so freeing me of all liability, direct, indirect, consequential or incidental that may arise from the instillation of this post in your memory bank.
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Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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I talked to Jochen Gartz at this Party and asked him about that -I think he told me this specific compound was neurotoxic , and that others compounds of this group could also be dangerous ( Bufotenine Doping ) Also he said he thinks the Tryptamine Doping not to be of psychonautic ,but purely academical value and one should simply take more shrooms. Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being, he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced. They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more... All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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Derek
Posts: 1210 Joined: 12-Mar-2009 Last visit: 23-Jun-2011 Location: here there and everywhere
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Observant wrote:one should simply take more shrooms. sounds like good advice to me! hahaha "once youve locked yourself into a serious drug collection the tendency is to push it as far as you can..." - hunter s. thompson
~~~~~~~~...You are me and i am you, i will always be with you...~~~~~~~~IAmUsWeYouMe~~~~~~~~ ‹maxzar100› YOU are like acid ‹mattimus› dosesdosingdoses
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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Several of these di-methoxy tryptamines have been made. Also several of these compounds with a methylene bridge were also made and are reported in TIHKAL. None of these compounds stand out with special pharmacological properties. However I see no obvious reason why these compounds with have an enhanced level of toxicity. There is no support or logic in such statement(s). Maybe if the substitutions were on the 6,7 position but not the 4,5 or even 5,6.
Why wouldn't making mushrooms more potent have value? That is ridiculous. Just eat more? If there is a way to enhance the potency of mushroom many people would be interested in this ability. It absolutely has value. However if he meant in the practical sense that the technique is not efficient enough to find wide spread value I would agree. However there is potential.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1139 Joined: 14-Jul-2008 Last visit: 01-Apr-2017 Location: USA
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Also I am not sure anyone has used a indole ring substituted tryptamine as a substrate. Is the hydroxylase enzyme able to use indole substituted tryptamines, such as bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT, as a substrate? I am not sure this has been shown. One can use N-substituted tryptamines but what about indole substituted? Does anyone know of any studies?
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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bufoman wrote:Also I am not sure anyone has used a indole ring substituted tryptamine as a substrate. Is the hydroxylase enzyme able to use indole substituted tryptamines, such as bufotenine, and 5-MeO-DMT, as a substrate? I am not sure this has been shown. One can use N-substituted tryptamines but what about indole substituted? Does anyone know of any studies? I'm equally skeptical and I do not personally think that the indole 4-hydroxylase from the mushrooms would be able to cope with indole ring substituted tryptamines. This cannot be excluded of course and it has not been demonstrated. Enzymes are as picky about their substrates as they can be very open about them. Crazy little machines they are. Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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I didn't understand too much about the chemistry and can't recall it good as it was at psytrance gathering He told me about one specific compound which has shown to be neurotoxic... too bad i cant remember ... I think Gartz has shown that Tryptamine Doping Works - but while the psilocin level drastically rises- the yields drastically drop i think ... Growing Ps. Cubensis the traditional ways (not PF Tek) brings huge yields and with a simple water extract one can take up much as one wants . And one doesnt have to buy/ make tryptamine which is pretty hard to get... So i think his point was that he thinks his method is pretty impractical for most people. Another thing one could do is make 2x/ 3x/ 4x Extracts of Cubensis instead of trying for Crystals - and for this i would use cheap vodka Well a natural Source of tryptamine would be nice - I guess it could be an ideal Substrate / Partner Crop for most psylocybes Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being, he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced. They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more... All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4639 Joined: 16-May-2008 Last visit: 24-Dec-2012 Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
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I'm pretty shure that this particular compound occurs in some sea-plant and that it is the substance responsible for the hallucinogenic- fish myth, referred to at this forum. As for making shrooms more potent. I believe the easiest way would be to let it sit in a jar with vinegar or acetic acid for a day. this method, according to 69ron works for converting bufotenin into 5-HO-DMT, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for 4-HO'*'.I haven't tried it yet, because i have ko idea how long it (4-AcO-DMT) could be stored.
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Nothing Stops The Void
Posts: 739 Joined: 19-Jun-2008 Last visit: 26-Nov-2013 Location: Blinded by the Lye
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Would be pretty Interesting if this would work ! I think wa can't exactly say it would we would have shrooms after the Conversion of their Psilocin Content - as 4 Aco DMT doesnt occur in shrooms naturally . Can we convert Psilocybin to Psilocin ? 4 Aco DMT fumarate is much more stable than Psilocin - its a compound very well worth looking into - if it was easy to convert and extract ... Had he more quickly realized just who they were,he would have shown them more respect.Had he tried harder to fathom their brilliant minds,he would have taken more of their teachings to heart.Had he more clearly understood the purpose of their being, he would have more vigorously tried to assist them.They were truly honorable; he was sadly prejudiced. They were exceedingly well informed; he was grossly ignorant.They were totally indefatigable; he so often, and so quickly,gave up. Still, for many years there was a strong inter-species alliance between the Eleven-Eleven of the Half-way Realm, their Seraphic Associates,and their flesh-and-blood friend, a common mortal. Much was accomplished, many profited, and, there’s only one regret...They could have achieved so much more... All Hypnotizing Hypnotizes Hypnotizing
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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polytrip wrote:I'm pretty shure that this particular compound occurs in some sea-plant and that it is the substance responsible for the hallucinogenic- fish myth, referred to at this forum. As for making shrooms more potent. I believe the easiest way would be to let it sit in a jar with vinegar or acetic acid for a day. this method, according to 69ron works for converting bufotenin into 5-HO-DMT, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for 4-HO'*'.I haven't tried it yet, because i have ko idea how long it (4-AcO-DMT) could be stored. Acetylation of bufotenine has hot been demonstrated to happen this way; 69ron felt that something changed but there was no indication that SWIH did actually accomplished 5-AcO-dmt. As a matter of fact the conversion is far more complicated and not to be discussed here. In this respect, there's no reason to assume that something would happen with psilocin. SWIM has done psilocin extractions with daylong incubations of mushrooms in the vinegar and he didn't notice any conversions. As far as the ichthyotoxin is concerned, why do you thing that it is 4-OH 5-meo dmt? Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5826 Joined: 09-Jun-2008 Last visit: 08-Sep-2010 Location: USA
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polytrip wrote:I'm pretty shure that this particular compound occurs in some sea-plant and that it is the substance responsible for the hallucinogenic- fish myth, referred to at this forum. As for making shrooms more potent. I believe the easiest way would be to let it sit in a jar with vinegar or acetic acid for a day. this method, according to 69ron works for converting bufotenin into 5-HO-DMT, so i don't see why it wouldn't work for 4-HO'*'.I haven't tried it yet, because i have ko idea how long it (4-AcO-DMT) could be stored. SWIM never said that worked. He said he noticed something changed in the effect but it was very minor and could have been placebo or a change in impurities that occurred. He needs to do that test again with pure bufotenine to be sure it wasn’t just his imagination. It’s true that acetylation of some compounds is possible with just vinegar. But it often takes several days to even weeks to complete the reaction. Such is the case with morphine, but the acetylation of morphine is not complete with acetic acid and it takes a long time. For complete acetylation of morphine you need acetic anhydride. I’m convinced that you can make 5-AcO-DMT with acetic anhydride and bufotenine if done right. SWIM will test again using glacial acetic acid. Unlike the others here, he’s not convinced it’s not possible with acetic acid until he exhausts all possible ways of acetylating bufotenine with acetic acid. You may remember me as 69Ron. I was suspended years ago for selling bunk products under false pretenses. I try to sneak back from time to time under different names, but unfortunately, the moderators of the DMT-Nexus are infinitely smarter than I am.
If you see me at the waterpark, please say hello. I'll be the delusional 50 something in the American flag Speedo, oiling up his monster guns while responding to imaginary requests for selfies from invisible teenage girls.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 4639 Joined: 16-May-2008 Last visit: 24-Dec-2012 Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
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My mistake. Also in relation to the hallucinogenic fish; according to wikipedia some sea-creatures contain 5-bromo-DMT instead of 5-MeO,4-HO-DMT.
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❤️🔥
Posts: 3648 Joined: 11-Mar-2017 Last visit: 10-Feb-2024 Location: 🌎
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bufoman wrote:Several of these di-methoxy tryptamines have been made. Also several of these compounds with a methylene bridge were also made and are reported in TIHKAL. None of these compounds stand out with special pharmacological properties. However I see no obvious reason why these compounds with have an enhanced level of toxicity. There is no support or logic in such statement(s). Maybe if the substitutions were on the 6,7 position but not the 4,5 or even 5,6.
Why wouldn't making mushrooms more potent have value? That is ridiculous. Just eat more? If there is a way to enhance the potency of mushroom many people would be interested in this ability. It absolutely has value. However if he meant in the practical sense that the technique is not efficient enough to find wide spread value I would agree. However there is potential. The dihydroxy tryptamines can be neurotoxic. See https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=904117#post904117 for more details. I don't know about methoxy together with hydroxy . I would proceed with caution as mentioned previously in this thread. At this time and until we know more I strongly recommend not adding 5-OH substituted tryptamines (like bufotenine or 5-HTP) to mushroom substrates.
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