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SWIMfriend
#41 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:42:10 AM

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69ron wrote:
...Using a nebulizer, you really need to have very pure compounds or you could get quite sick from it. Imagine inhaling sodium hydroxide residue from badly made DMT! Ouch!...


Why would purity issues be any different with a nebulizer vs heat vaporization?

In fact I'm ready to believe that a SMALLER DOSE would be required, because there would be ZERO burning, etc., of the molecule of interest.

And regarding purity--when you heat stuff to high temperature, you're always getting unknown cross reactions...you don't really know WHAT ELSE, in small quantity, that you're inhaling.
 

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69ron
#42 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:42:59 AM

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I don't think you could get 50 mg of DMT into 3 drops of anything. DMSO is a fantastic solvent but it takes 5 ml [EDIT: that's 2.5, not 5 ml] to hold 50 mg of DMT. How long would it take to nebulize 5 ml [EDIT: that's 2.5, not 5 ml] of liquid?
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69ron
#43 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:44:37 AM

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Sorry that's 2.5 ml of DMSO for 50 mg of DMT, not 5 ml.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
SWIMfriend
#44 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:45:08 AM

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...and on the issue of NaOH. Some people say it has no effect when spice is vaporized. I don't know how that could be--certainly a sniff from a bottle of NaOH is pretty nasty. SOMEHOW that stuff is vaporizing even on its own...
 
69ron
#45 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:51:31 AM

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SWIMfriend wrote:
69ron wrote:
...Using a nebulizer, you really need to have very pure compounds or you could get quite sick from it. Imagine inhaling sodium hydroxide residue from badly made DMT! Ouch!...


Why would purity issues be any different with a nebulizer vs heat vaporization?

In fact I'm ready to believe that a SMALLER DOSE would be required, because there would be ZERO burning, etc., of the molecule of interest.

And regarding purity--when you heat stuff to high temperature, you're always getting unknown cross reactions...you don't really know WHAT ELSE, in small quantity, that you're inhaling.


Not exactly.

Not all things vaporize. Many things burn instead. When you smoke something, only the compounds that actually vaporize and don’t burn get inhaled.

Lets say you had 10 mg of bufotenine that had 1 mg of calcium hydroxide in it as a contaminant. The calcium hydroxide cannot vaporize, only the bufotenine can, so if smoked, you’d only inhale the bufotenine. But if nebulized, you’d get both! If you got too much calcium hydroxide, you’d get really sick from it.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
SWIMfriend
#46 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:51:32 AM

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69ron wrote:
Sorry that's 2.5 ml of DMSO for 50 mg of DMT, not 5 ml.


2.5ml would take too long in the nebulizer I linked to. It would take some sort of custom setup (like from a room humidifier) to nebulize that in one minute.

SOMEBODY MUST HAVE SOME FREEBASE SPICE AND EVERCLEAR HANDY! I'd simply like to know, if done as carefully as possible, what is the minimum number of DROPS of ethanol it takes to dissolve 50mg spice.

I'd like to know what is the minimum number of drops of WATER it takes to dissolve 70mg of DMT. fumarate.

I think Warrensaged recalled that 12ml of water dissolves 1 g. of DMT-fumarate--which would work out to 17 (.07*12*20) or so drops to dissolve 70 mg. (assuming 20 drops/ml)
 
SWIMfriend
#47 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:54:18 AM

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69ron wrote:
...Lets say you had 10 mg of bufotenine that had 1 mg of calcium hydroxide in it as a contaminant. The calcium hydroxide cannot vaporize, only the bufotenine can, so if smoked, you’d only inhale the bufotenine. But if nebulized, you’d get both! If you got too much calcium hydroxide, you’d get really sick from it.


Well, that's what people SAY. But again, if you sniff from a bottle of CaOH you're going to get a noseful of SOMETHING unpleasant. What's that? And why wouldn't it vaporize, if indeed you can smell it WITHOUT even any heat?
 
69ron
#48 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:57:18 AM

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If you mixed in some harmine then you would extend the time period before tolerance to the DMT builds up. I think you'd be able to do it then. That gives you much more time. I believe the dose needed for harmine would be about 10 mg if nebulized. I just don't believe you can do it with pure DMT.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
SWIMfriend
#49 Posted : 6/7/2009 5:58:36 AM

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Also, by dissolving in a buffered solution, you eliminate all problems with trace lye. It might take a couple more drops to get the solution, but you could control the pH.
 
SWIMfriend
#50 Posted : 6/7/2009 6:01:48 AM

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69ron wrote:
If you mixed in some harmine then you would extend the time period before tolerance to the DMT builds up. I think you'd be able to do it then. That gives you much more time. I believe the dose needed for harmine would be about 10 mg if nebulized. I just don't believe you can do it with pure DMT.


OK, great! That gives another alternative!

I wish somebody around here could do the simple experiment, though. And see what the minimum solvent needs (in drops) to dissolve freebase (alcohol) or fumarate (water).

I don't know what would happen if one gave a little heating help...as long as the solution wasn't supersaturated I don't think the ultrasonic effect would precipitate anything...but who knows.
 
69ron
#51 Posted : 6/7/2009 6:11:14 AM

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We need to have a permanent section in this forum for drug properties and solubility information. I've made a few threads like that for mescaline and bufotenine already. I don’t think we have one for DMT! We should. This site is a DMT site after all!
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
SWIMfriend
#52 Posted : 6/7/2009 6:16:48 AM

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69ron wrote:
We need to have a permanent section in this forum for drug properties and solubility information. I've made a few threads like that for mescaline and bufotenine already. I don’t think we have one for DMT! We should. This site is a DMT site after all!


I agree!
 
WSaged
#53 Posted : 6/8/2009 2:59:36 AM

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SWIMfriend wrote:

I wish somebody around here could do the simple experiment, though. And see what the minimum solvent needs (in drops) to dissolve freebase (alcohol) or fumarate (water).


I'll test the fumarate, I have both pure DMT-Fumarate & the Jungle Spice-Fumarate from the D-Limo tek.
It has some other alks that change the effects a bit & I would guess will make it take more water to dissolve.

I'll check it out tomorrow.


WS
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amor_fati
#54 Posted : 6/8/2009 4:00:04 PM

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69ron wrote:
We need to have a permanent section in this forum for drug properties and solubility information. I've made a few threads like that for mescaline and bufotenine already. I don’t think we have one for DMT! We should. This site is a DMT site after all!


Under discussion here:
http://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5097
 
Garulfo
#55 Posted : 6/9/2009 11:32:26 PM

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Quote:
But again, if you sniff from a bottle of CaOH you're going to get a noseful of SOMETHING unpleasant. What's that?


Theses are probably very fine particles of CAOh. If you wet it, it should smell much much less. Nose is very sensitive in fact.
A friend who smoke sometimes some dark bufo extract told me that he would hesitate to nebulize it, seeing all the crap left after the main compound was vaporized. The smoke is already not very pure, but all that dark stuff would be in my friend's lung if he would use a nebulizer. Using heat is indeed a way to separate usefull stuff from crap.
It's different for very pure DMT crystals of course.
 
SWIMfriend
#56 Posted : 6/9/2009 11:41:43 PM

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Garulfo wrote:
Quote:
But again, if you sniff from a bottle of CaOH you're going to get a noseful of SOMETHING unpleasant. What's that?


Theses are probably very fine particles of CAOh. If you wet it, it should smell much much less. Nose is very sensitive in fact.
A friend who smoke sometimes some dark bufo extract told me that he would hesitate to nebulize it, seeing all the crap left after the main compound was vaporized. The smoke is already not very pure, but all that dark stuff would be in my friend's lung if he would use a nebulizer. Using heat is indeed a way to separate usefull stuff from crap.
It's different for very pure DMT crystals of course.


Right, I think that's a legitimate caution: substances will have to be pure.

But it's also true that there's no reason to believe that vaporizing only vaporizes "what you want" and nothing that maybe you don't want. Not everything vaporizes at the temperatures that DMT does--but not everything DOESN'T vaporize at those temperatures, either (if my double negative is clear).

Personally, I'm only willing to use what's very pure, whether by nebulizing or vaporizing.
 
WSaged
#57 Posted : 6/10/2009 7:24:10 PM

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I tested the solubility of my DMT-Fumarate in distilled water.
I was actually kind of surprised at how much it took to get it fully dissolved!!

It took 120 drops of 98f degree distilled water with some stirring & swirling, to get 50mg of very pure (just a tad off-white) DMT-Fumarate to be totally dissolved by the H2O.

I used a standard eye dropper to distribute the drops of warm water.
And I checked with a volumetric pipette, that 20 drops from this eye dropper, equals 1ml.

So the 120 drops, equals 6ml of warm, distilled water to fully dissolve 50mg of pure, DMT-Fumarate.

Someone else should double check this for sure...
Although, I'm sure the numbers will vary a bit depending on the particular DMT being tested. Right?

Antrocles, did your nebulizer arrive yet? Have you tried it yet?

WS
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69ron
#58 Posted : 6/10/2009 7:45:56 PM

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You're better off using DMSO rather than water.

50 mg freebase DMT dissolves in 2.5 ml of DMSO. And because it's freebase it's stronger than 50 mg of DMT fumarate in 6 ml of water.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
SWIMfriend
#59 Posted : 6/10/2009 8:14:18 PM

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WS and 69ron...sounds like somewhat unhappy news. Certainly, 6 mls is way over the top in terms of inhalation within a minute or two via a medical nebulizer. I'm also not too enthusiastic about inhaling DMSO on a regular basis (although there have been health benefits cited for DMSO use in/on the body generally).

I'm going to have to turn into an experimenter/inventor on this issue, I suppose.

First idea:

1) Use a somewhat stronger nebulizer (like a fog fountain or room humidifier)
2) See if it's easy to set up to completely nebulize the sample used--with no waste or product remainder in nebulizing chamber.
3) Collect the vapor in some sort of bag, ala the volcano vaporizer.
4) Inhale from the bag.

I'm pretty sure it's not a hardship to inhale 6mls of water in a fairly short time: people who have to medicate themselves with nebulizers often inhale that much or more--sure, they do it over a 15 minute period or so--but I don't think you'd DROWN or anything if you did the same amount in a minute. That will be a question though.

Regarding the volcano (and my issue of it possibly being a challenge to get breakthrough doses into my lungs within 90 seconds or so): that's also a possible solution. What would be good about the "bag inhalation" method is that you can inhale as fast as you like. That's not true if you're inhaling AS the product vaporizes. I wonder how long the vapor can be left in the bag without condensing--and thus giving it a chance to cool a bit. I've also seen some youtube videos where volcano bags are connected to bongs so that the vapor can be drawn through water.
 
SWIMfriend
#60 Posted : 6/10/2009 8:26:26 PM

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as mentioned by 69ron in an earlier post--the nebulizer method might be very good for mescaline: A post on another forum claims that only 1ml of water can dissolve 300mg of mescaline hydrochloride.

I wonder if the DMT ion ITSELF just doesn't do well in water....or if another salt besides fumarate might be more soluble?

If the mescaline hydrocholride figure is correct (and it wouldn't surprise me--it's still LOWER in solubility than NaCl in water), then the straight nebulizer answer WOULD DEFINITELY WORK.

Is the mescaline ion that radically different from the DMT ion? If not, then the solution is finding a salt that would be much more soluble than DMT-fumarate.

Anyone know about DMT-acetate solubility?
 
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