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Cool Freeze Cycle (CFC) problem Options
 
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#1 Posted : 10/14/2007 11:44:03 AM
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Hi, I haven't been able to find any tek or comprehensive advice for doing a cfc properly on the search engine so I wanted to ask if someone can give me some advice/tek on this as I haven't had any sucess in getting much beyond a few small strands of dmt chrystals that don't grow much. Thanks
 

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gimpy
#2 Posted : 10/14/2007 1:20:32 PM

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cfc? i've done a fair bit of reading and havent seen a mention of that. do you mean freeze preciptation?
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#3 Posted : 10/14/2007 7:47:08 PM
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No it's not freeze precipitation. CFC is intended to obtain larger purer crystals by alternating between having the naphta in a freezer v cold & chilled in a fridge. I've seen it referred to, though without much detail, in a few teks & threads but I can't find them again. There is reference to it here http://www.dmt-nexus.me/phpBB2/...hlight=cool+freeze+cycle and here http://www.dmt-nexus.me/phpBB2/...95&highlight=cfc though.
 
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#4 Posted : 10/18/2007 6:56:43 PM
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Anyone?
 
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#5 Posted : 10/18/2007 7:11:10 PM
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Sorry didn't see this one. CFC is simply moving your DMT-containing solvent from the 'fridge to the freezer repeatedly to induce larger crystal growth. Larger crystals = cleaner. I don't know if there's any exact science to it, but i typically do couple hour intervals alternating between the 'fridge and freezer.
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gimpy
#6 Posted : 10/18/2007 11:56:26 PM

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hmmm... was thinking. for larger crystals would there be anything you could add to the mix to help the crystals precipitate; like a few little stones or something?
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MrM
#7 Posted : 10/19/2007 12:36:03 AM
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[quote:edac0ca224="gimpy"]hmmm... was thinking. for larger crystals would there be anything you could add to the mix to help the crystals precipitate; like a few little stones or something?[/quote:edac0ca224] Yes. If you have a small DMT crystal from a previous extraction handy you can add that in the bottom of the container - new DMT will crystalise around the old and this can help produce a larger crystal (it's known as a seed crystal i think). You can also try tieing a knot in a piece of string and dangling that into the solution to provide a seed if you don't have a DMT crystal handy. I've heard of people tieing a string around a DMT crystal and dangling that in instead of just a knot but that sounds pretty fiddly to me.
 
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#8 Posted : 10/22/2007 6:41:29 AM
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Thanks, I'll give it another try but it looks like I might just not have much spice in this pull.
 
foxwalk
#9 Posted : 10/25/2007 11:01:57 AM
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The "exact science" behind the CFC: CFCs use a few simple principles... surface area, surface suitability for precipitating on to, and variable solubility by temperature. It works like this. During the initial, slow cooling of the solvent, the solute wants to precipitate out a bit at a time, as the solution becomes more supersaturated only slowly. In order to crystallize, the dissolved solute has to "bump into" an appropriate surface... lots of things need to be right, the angle of the molecule and the shape and polarity of the surface. This is called an effective collision. The point is, the better the surface, the more likely a random bump into it by a solute molecule will result in it "sticking". Now, I'm not positive the absolute best surface for DMT to crystallize on is already crystallized DMT, but it's very good, much better than glass or floating dust. So, since the dissolved solute molecules stay more or less equally spaced throughout the solution as things precipitate, all the surfaces get "bumped" at about the same rate, but a growing DMT crystal will have more "bumps" result in the molecule precipitating out of solution. The crystals will gain more molecules per surface area than the side of the jar. Next, we bring the next fact into play, by moving the jar from the freezer to the fridge. This slowly warms the solution, and now instead of precipitating, the solvent is unsaturated and the equilibrium reaction wants to move solid-state molecules of solvent to dissolved state... some of your crystallized DMT will redissolve. Except this time, instead of looking for an effective collision between surface and solute, you're looking for effective collision between solvent and solute... all the naphtha in the jar is the same (well, technically it's not since naphtha usually contains more than one type of hydrocarbon, but the solubility is the same everywhere in the jar). This means, everywhere naphtha is in contact with DMT crystals, the molecules of those crystals have an equal chance of being dissolved. Since small crystals have more surface area exposed, they are subject to more collisions per molecule and will dissolve completely before the large ones. The larger ones will lose mass, but more slowly by percentage. Ideally, you will take advantage of this by allowing the solvent to warm gradually until all of the small crystals have dissolved, then immediately return the solvent to the freezer as not to lose any more mass on the large crystals. Now, in the freezer, the initial effect takes place again. Your existing larger crystals will be more likely to gain molecules of undissolved DMT than the glass. As the solution cools and molecules of DMT must precipitate out, the crystals will remove molecules of DMT from solution more quickly per surface area than the glass until no more needs to come out of solution for the equilibrium reaction to be stable. So, as long as the amount of mass gained by the large crystals during the cooling process exceeds the amount of mass lost during the warming process, the crystals will grow while the small crystals formed on the glass are continuously redissolved and do not. Thus, as long as you time your warming and cooling cycles correctly, each cycle will deposit X moles per surface area on the large crystals, Y moles per surface area on the glass, then dissolve Y moles per surface area, leaving none on the glass and X-Y moles on the crystals. If you write this into a proper equation you'll quickly discover that by adjusting the length of the cooling and warming periods, you're in effect setting a minimum weight/surface area ratio on any crystals for them to remain undissolved at the end of each warming period. Crystals exactly at this ratio will remain the same size and all with a better ratio will grow. Since larger crystals "enclose" more molecules, they have less molecules "touching" the solvent per molecule that doesn't, and their ratio is better. The Merck Index is probably your best bet on turning this knowledge into something useful via math. If that doesn't mean much to you, then try this: next time you freeze precip, cool the jar as slowly as possible to encourage the first effect to give you at least some larger-size crystals... say, room temp, fridge to as cold as it gets things plus a bit, freezer on low, then medium, then high. Then, transfer the jar to the fridge and check every little while until all the smaller crystals are gone, note how long it took, and use this amount of time in the fridge. For the freezer stage, you can't take too long (after a while DMT will just stop coming out of solution and you're wasting time, but no ill effects on the CFC), but you CAN not take enough time (you didn't let it cool enough for all the DMT you redissolved to reprecipitate, which means you're dissolving more than you're precipitating and all your crystals lose mass). My advise would be no matter what, make sure the final freezer stage lasts extra long so even if you fucked up your CFC, you still have everything precipitated out, just in smaller pieces than it would be if you'd done it perfectly.
 
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#10 Posted : 10/25/2007 12:42:05 PM
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Thanks Foxwalk, I'll need to re-read a few times to get it all clear in my mind but it looks like my problem has been not enough precision on the time in fridge/freezer. I'll take a day over the weekend & tie myself to a clock to make sure i can get this working right. I won't bother trying to do an equation for it though - the maths is beyond me.
 
 
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