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Morris Crowley
#1 Posted : 3/23/2015 5:42:32 AM

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Phyllodium pulchellum (L.) Devs.


This is a space to collect information on Phyllodium pulchellum.

Why? Because P. pulchellum just might be a good plant source for 5-MeO-DMT extraction, and is more readily available than the elusive Pilocarpus (see here for Pilocarpus discussion) You may have encountered it in the literature under the synonym Desmodium pulchellum. Best summary I've found on the chemical analysis of it is in Trout's Notes on the Genus Desmodium, which I'll link below.


To kick things off:

Accepted Name
Phyllodium pulchellum (L.) Devs.

Synonyms
Desmodium pulchellum (L.) Benth.
Dicerma pulchellum (L.) DC.
Hedysarum pulchellum L.
Meibomia pulchella (L.) Kuntze
Zornia pulchella (L.) Pers.

Note: Some history of the back-and-forth genus revision is discussed in: Pedley, Les. 1999. Desmodium Desv. (Fabaceae) and related genera in Australia: a taxonomic revision. Austrobaileya 5(2): 209-261.

Chemistry
Pdf Link: Trout's Notes on the Genus Desmodium
As mentioned above, the strongest indications that this is a desirable 5-MeO-DMT plant are summarized in this volume. The data comes from a series of papers by Ghosal & Mukherjee. Would be good to link these when time allows. Bottom line: 5-MeO-DMT in the range of 0.2-0.3%

Link: Studies on the constituents of phyllodium pulchellum and draconis resina
Where Trout summarizes the data in favor of the plant as a good alkaloid source, this 2004 dissertation from a Taiwanese university provides a counterpoint. They reported recovering 32.3 mg from 18 kg of plant material. Even accounting for extraction inefficiencies, that's not good. It comes out to 0.000002%. Several order of magnitude lower than Ghosal and Mukherjee. Maybe variable due to genetics? Or other factors? The geographical range of the plant is wide.


Threads of interest


Traditional Use
In the Phillipines
Link: http://www.stuartxchange.com/PayangPayang.html
As "payang payang". Touches on use in other areas, has some interesting links in the references and suggested reading.

In Bengladesh
Link: Medicinal Plants of Bengladesh: Desmodium pulchellum
As "jutasalpani".

In Traditional Chinese Medicine
Link: Chinese Medicine Specimen Database
As 排錢草 (pai qian cao), "Phyllodii Pulchelli" or "beautiful phyllodium".


Common Names
From http://www.stuartxchange.com/PayangPayang.html

Quote:
Common names
Gaan-gaan (Sul.)
Kalaikai (C. Bis.)
Kalaykay (C. Bis.)
Payang-payang (Tag.)
Angel's locks (Engl.)
Pai qian cao (Chin.)

Other vernacular names
ASSAMESE: Ursi.
BENGALI: Jutasalpani.
CAMBODIAN: Ang-prom, Prae kraoy.
CHINESE: Pai qian shu, Huan ye xiao huai hua, Long lin cao, Pai qian cao, Jian ye a po qian, Wu shi ye, Lin wan zii shu, Ya po qian.
HINDI: Jatsalpan.
INDONESIAN: Apa-apa, Apa-apa sapi, Ketipes.
LAOTIAN: Ked linz no:yz.
MALAYSIAN: Serengan kechil.
SANSKRIT: Lodhrah, Lodram.
TELUGU: Karrantinta, Kondontinta, Sarivi.
THAI: Klet plaa chon, Yaa song plong, Yaa klet lin.
VIETNAMESE: Chu[oox]i ti[eef]n, d[oof]ng ti[eef]n.


There's a lot more that can be easily found: Going into more depth on traditional use information. Pulling up distribution maps. Sifting through Google Scholar results for the accepted name and synonyms. Skimming through Biodiversity Heritage Library hits for the species. Etc., etc. If anyone has a little time to spare on this, it would be appreciated.
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Doc Buxin
#2 Posted : 3/24/2015 6:21:16 PM

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Desmodium styracifolium is used in Guangdong province, China as a substitute for Jin Quian Cao (Jin=Golden or metal; Quian=Coin or money; Cao=Herb or grass; thus: "Golden Coin Herb" ). The word "pai" might indicate "white coin herb"; often times this is difficult to decipher due to the way Pinyin (Chinese words spelled with our Roman alphabet) is pronounced. Usually the color white is spelled "bai" in Pinyin.

Commonly used for promoting urination, unblocks painful urinary dysfunction, & expels stones. It is very important for treating stones in both the urinary & biliary tracts.

Clears damp-heat in the Liver & Gallbladder: for jaundice &/or red, swollen eyes due to damp-heat.

Reduces toxicity & swelling: for snakebite, abscess & traumatic injury.

Cautions & contraindications: When a large dosage of this herb is taken long-term, patients can develop dizziness &/or palpitations. This is attributed to depletion of potassium from the body owing to the herb's diuretic effect.

Dosage: 15-60g. Often used alone or as an infusion for stones.

Major known ingredients: phenols, sterols, flavones, tannins, essential oils.
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Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
 
KloudQ7
#3 Posted : 9/25/2018 5:28:29 AM

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I got a couple of these plants ready to go in the ground. Does anyone here have person experience using this plant to in any way?
 
endlessness
#4 Posted : 9/25/2018 9:01:52 AM

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I don't but I'd be willing to test it for you if you extract it.

Ideally you could compare some variable, either different plant parts, or extraction using naphtha vs extraction using a less selective solvent (xylene, limonene, alcohol, whatever). That way we get more interesting info out of the plant.

According to trout's notes, the roots from young plants as well as stem and leaves contain mostly DMT , but when they are mature they have mostly 5-MeO-DMT.. So you gotta see what is it you're more interested in.

It also contains a host of other alkaloids in smaller amounts like bufotenine, gramine, 5-MeO-NMT, DMT N-Oxide, 5-HO-NMT, etc.


How are you planning on extracting it?
 
KloudQ7
#5 Posted : 9/26/2018 8:00:23 PM

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My plants are small still yet, but when they get older I plan on collecting a good amount of leaves and extracting them for 5-meo. Most likely standard a/b. If there's a better extraction for testing let me know and I'll do some separately for that purpose. Things grow quite fast where I live so it shouldn't be too long.

Thanks again for the promotion!
 
blue lunar night
#6 Posted : 9/29/2018 4:20:17 PM

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Hi Nexians, long time no post. Not sure if Julian is persona non grata around here or what, but about 36 minutes into this presentation, he discusses his experiences hunting and working with this plant. I also have some of his written bio-assay reports if anyone's interested. A bit surprised to see those valuable contributions not yet present here, considering the first report reached my inbox in December 2017.
 
pinkoyd
#7 Posted : 9/29/2018 4:47:00 PM

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Written bio-assay reports would be most welcome!

His theory about Phyllodium being soma bears looking into.
I already asked Alice.

 
blue lunar night
#8 Posted : 9/29/2018 5:17:53 PM

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Quote:

Oct 8th

I first find it on a track, near a shrine, where so many plants had ID plates on them. I find just two plants. One big one and one small one very close together, but no others in the area! This is frustrating. But I have found them! They are so beautiful, they make you stop and think about them. Indeed, their common name is Showy Desmodium

https://www.google.com/s...;q=phyllodium+pulchellum

Walking in the national park for a couple of hours, I don’t see anymore plants. Riding my scooter some kilometers furthers, I eventually I stop on the side of the road, walk down a track and then I see many. They grow in the grass among the small trees in a quite open area. I am so happy to find them in quantity! I have reached my objective.

When I first chewed the leaves, I felt flashes in my heart and the side of my neck. The leaves didn’t taste of much. I wondered how they could be so strong and do what they do with so little alkaloidal taste. I do not collect any at this point, as it is getting late and I am not feeling it is the right thing to do.


Oct 11

So I had two days break, I have been sick, struggling with the aftershocks of severe cluster headaches and I also got sunburnt on the first scooter trip. So on the 3rd day I go out to collect them. I find myself lagging, starting a bit late in the day, like so often when it comes to something important. This time I go straight to the place where I found them all growing after a two hour scooter ride. I sit with the plants first. They do not say much to me, but I know they will speak to me later when I take them.

I tell it I must harvest some plants, so I pull up 3 plants, they come straight up, roots and all. Then go to another place a few hundred meters along the road and pull up another 2. I put them in my backpack and then ride off, rain begins to come and I must shelter in a little scout shed for over an hour while the rain buckets down.

Oct 12 2017

The next day in the morning I calculate it is probably 0.2% 5-MeO at most. So 200 grams fresh is 100 grams dry. Which means 200 grams fresh + 200 millgrams. I decide to go low, and cook up 80 grams fresh, which means 50mg or so of 5-MeO.

The cooker at my little apartment is some sort of stir fry hotplate, and it heats up quite rapidly and I cannot just turn it down low. I give it one cook for about an hour.

I started drinking at 2.05pm and stop around 2.15pm

The taste is quite greenish, it is not that easy to drink, the taste is not THAT strong, but I really know something is happening right away. I only end up drinking about half of it, as I feel like this will give me a taste.

I put on some random music on my speaker but it was a bit random, so I put on David Darling’s cello music which was perfect.I start to feel some things around 2.40pm, I can feel it coming on.

There is some intensity, a watery feeling. A certain clarity. A light that doesn’t quite fully arrive.
The taste of the green in my mouth. By around 3pm I can really feel it. There is almost a nauseous feeling. I don’t want to move so much. I can feel the clarity and edginess of the 5-MeO. Also, there is some sign of the MAOI, the balancing effect of the chemicals.

At times I go into almost automatic deep breathing, a kind of pranayama. When I experience that I know for sure this plant is Soma. I have rediscovered Soma.

I meet a being who appears to be some sort of guardian or gatekeeper. He is tendrily, and sad, I don’t attack him. I just let him dissipate, he seems sad. Then there is a gnarly being, a big muscley being with chains who comes to attack me. He is another gatekeeper. I take him down with torping. Then there is a bigger one, shaking the ground, as if he has stone feet. He is sad.

Then I experience a further attack in my head, these lobster like beings.

All this fades, they are lonely guardians it seems, nobody else knows. There is an emptiness around this experience, like I am breaking it up.

Then I feel pressure in my left shoulder, in my stomach, in my heart. I can feel it working with me. It feels similar to the New Caledonian 5-MeO plant tea, but smoother.

Around 3.30pm the effects ease off, I eat some corn chips and start to feel really hungry! Then I hear a knock on the door. It is an older American guy, clear eyed, tells me I can’t have dogs in the apartment. I apologize to him, tell him its ME making those sounds, not a dog, but he’s stuck thinking its a dog, telling me I can’t have dogs for the next few minutes - quite a surreal experience!

After he leaves, there is another lobster like being attacking me, causing me pain, I blow on it to no avail, so must leave and so torp outside on my scooter to the mall and get some thai food. I can still feel it work on me, for another couple of hours. Then around 7pm I feel a lot of clarity and a shift in me.

Overall, there is less pleasure in it than I thought, and it seems quite intimidating. I was surprised how my body got nauseous, I could really feel it doing a lot. What I do not know, but I can understand why they call it the nectar of immortality due to what I felt is its healing capability.

October 17th

I move to another part of Thailand to look for more patches of this plant, and book a little hut in the country to take it again, and cook up a different batch to try it again. This time the batch I collected from the same first collection is dry. I aim to drink 80g dried, but only end up taking 40g dried. It just tastes so strong! Not so much happens, just the liquidy feeling and some sense of healing, but nothing so strong. I suppose it is good I am being cautious, I feel like this plant is very strong and there is a reason I have waited a week to drink it again, even with last weeks experience I am finding it somewhat intimidating by the power I feel in it.


24th October

I rented a motorcycle for one day in a new part of Thailand to see if I could find Phyllodium Pullchellum. I ended up just following my nose rather than a map, and ended up at a waterfall. Then as I walked up a steep track I find one plant. Aha! It is here!

Then I scooter down the road a bit, into a little dirt track. Stop, then think, no, this is not where it grows! And I decide not to get off the scooter and back out, and when I look a little closer I can see it is growing everywhere around me! Under the bamboo grove, which in the GPS notes, it states that it does grow in these conditions. I taste the leaves, they are stronger than the other one’s, which likely means more juicy 5-MeO alkaloids.

I walk around and see a few dozen plants growing in the open undergrowth, then drive off, it is raining, so end up under a tin shed where there are two big blue plastic water tanks and wait some time for the rain to ease off.


26th October

I go back to the same area to collect the PP’s. I use my intuition and go around to which one’s are calling, take one from each area. They don’t tend to grow in the shade. There are also little rusty spots on the leaves. It is hard to pull them out, the root system is so big, I am unable to pull out as many roots as I would like! But I collect 5 plants and put them under the seat of my scooter.

That night I start cooking them, all of them together weigh 500g and just fits in the big aluminium pot I have in this house with a little kitchen. I simmer slowly for a couple of hours, it turns into a deep brown golden colour. Then I simmer it down to what I think is about a liter, cover it and let it sit.


27th of October

I have problems getting up, end up getting up at 10am! Sleeping in. Thailand makes me feel lazy.

I bottle up the liquid and it is exactly one liter. I put it into 2 500ml glass bottles, then pour out what I assume is 100ml (50g fresh) and put it in a glass. Again, I feel like I am being conservative with the dose. I see no reason to rush into a deep experience with this plant and just feel like I’m making friends with it.

I procrastinate drinking it a fair while. Eventually I drink at 12.15pm. It tastes strong and I drink it all down in one go!

I put on this music mix and lie down.

https://soundcloud.com/s...ft-current-hazel-mandala

I can feel it quite quickly it working on me. The first thing I feel is it working on my liver, clearing heat, which is what PP is used for in Chinese medicine. It feels really effective, going in there to the sides in quite a lot of details, more than I felt with ayahuasca for example. Opening up channels.

Then the nausea comes, it is quite strong. I end up throwing up twice, keep heaving bringing it up. And there is also diarrhea which is quite strong too.

About an hour and 20 minutes after taking it, I am going through a tunnel, which is hard to interpret. Lots of images whirring past me. I am a bit in shock. Something in me is not able to register it is becoming SO visual.

The visuals last about 90-120 minutes. But I cannot keep track of time as I am too IN IT and surprised.

I am seeing things like asians go in and out of shops. There is a landscape, of beings, people doing their thing. It seems kind of normal. The visuals are quite crisp, especially for the dose I have taken. The colors are quite bright.

At one point there is an old wizard communicating with me, there are spells emanating from him, good spells. At no point does the communication seem very direct. Like I said, it was hard to interpret, just from the shock of it happening, and the nature of it seems so new, I cannot compute it or bring it back to memory so well.

When it ends, I go back through the tunnel, with these arms waving at me, like asian sculptures, dancing men or women or god’s or goddesses, endless arms waving, as art.

Then I don’t want to move for a couple of hours until 5.30pm.

I am in a deep place, in a reverie, the plants communicate to me with these cartoons, of the kind I experience with Iboga. They seem somehow trivial, but I understand it is only the plant trying to be entertaining. I get a great sense of friendliness and humility from this plant, wise old power, the same impression I get from Iboga.

Overall this experience felt very solid. High energy. Happiness. Brightness. For sure, this seemed like DMT more than 5-MeO. At least for this strain, it means that the DMT content is a lot higher than you would expect in the strains I collected.



Quote:


Armies of Offensiveness - An Experience with Phyllodium Pulchellum


Tuesday June 12th

I cooked up the phyllodium, no stalks, twice without any acid, lime juice or apple cider vinegar. It seemed to work well, pulling out a lot of colour so I just went with it and trusted.

I drink 140ml of the plant, about 80g fresh, at 8.40pm. I tend to proctrastinate a fair bit. There is no fear, or resistance, just awareness that this is really something I’m doing.

I feel something in about half an hour, some feelings in my liver. Then as always it takes about 50-60 minutes to really kick in.

The first thing I am shown is a woman and two men hurtling along in a jeep, very hurriedly and flusterdly. The visuals are quite clear, but look different to that I’ve had from most other plants, a bit like those from that film, “A waking life”

Then they arrive at a checkpoint, there is a woman there. Then I see something very strange, like layers of visuals of funky electric static. The woman at the checkpoint rips off each of these layers until there is none left and a couple of men come out of the side of the checkpoint, rip the people out of the cars and proceed to seriously beat them up. This continues for much longer than I would like it too, it gets pretty brutal.

It appears to me, this is symbolic of the the plant trying to deliver a visual experience to my brain. But what does this checkpoint symbolise? Could it be my brain? Why would my brain do that?

The experience last time was of a lady, in what appeared to be my brain, ending the fireworks display, saying that no permission was given for this.

Anyway, this fighting ends and I go into a reverie. Something easy to do with this plant, a kind of trance. Maybe I’m in this state for 20 minutes, where nothing is happening, it is almost like sleep. Then I come to a bit, and check for signs of life. There is a round pattern, very crisp and golden swirling around in front of me, a bit like a 3D Mandela.

I can only presume the plant is doing some healing work with me, that it doesn’t require visuals to be there for.

Then, the visuals come back, they are somehow crisp, but lacking rich colour, there are outlines, but it is water colorish, a certain faint quality to everything.

I am wondering what happened there. Why were the visuals not working properly? Who took away the permission. So I am taken to this place, and me and the guide (presumably the plant), we creep in, a thin film of plastic is taken away from in front of me. They tell me to be very still. Then I am shown a golden badge in place where badges are stored. They say, this is us! This is the rulebook, this is the sign, that we are not to be released. It is like a declaration. Made by them? But who are they? The people at the checkpoint? Some sort of military presence, that find all of this very threatening, people who want to contain it?

I am taken to this place in nature, like a grove, where this is black puddle. The guide is like a telepathic voice in my head, and tells me to torp the black puddle. I’m not used to working with this plant, normally the Acacia courtii is my favored guide. So I start torping the black puddle. It becomes a humanoid. The phyllodium tells me to keep topping. But the black inky man spawns into many men. This is quite disconcerting. I get the impression the phyllodium was thinking, “oh shit, I thought that would work….”

Then the inky black men surround me in a circle and start closing in on me. I start to get a bit concerned. I start torping them and it is a move I often have to do, spinning round in a circle on my bed to get all of them quickly.

Then I am taken toward this thing, it is a big UFO like thing, two big discs made of natural stuff, like wood or leaves. It is ominous, like a dark fairytale, the guide tells to me to torp. It is hard when I don’t even know what it is. The bottom disc made of some smooth material dissipates, but the top disc, made of more something like woody sticks, dissipates, then turns into a smokey cloudy thing, with arrows that point of it, which seems to allow it to move. It flies up and over me and I torp it until it dissipates.

I am taken onto this mountain top, there are people on top of this mountain all in a heightened state. They are like villagers of this world, I can only assume this world is the phyllodium world, the ecology of its spiritual home, that it took me to when I first had a truly visual experience.

In the distance, there is some disquiet. The people (though they are not really all people) wearing quite odd clothes and very anxious and close together.

Then I am shown what is happening, there are armies headed right toward this place, many armies! It looks overwhelming! Like something out of the lord of the rings!

The guide says, I can help, I say I am not sure if I can help that much against armies. I feel a sense of despair for these people and this place. It looks overwhelming. These armies are charging toward them, it is a homogenous army, of humanoid like creatures. I just keep torping and that appear to work to some degree. I just keep going doing this for a few minutes, wondering if it will have any effect on the outcome here. Then all the soldiers just turn to stone and break! Which was unexpected.

The battle keeps going for about 30 minutes, different kinds of soldiers. some are like black inky ninjas. Others are white. I do my best to torp, it seems to work a lot of the time, at least to weaken the armies, then after I have a go at them, the army of my allies takes them out.

Then there are the bosses behind the armies which I take out, on their thrones, muscley, grisly, mercenary characters. Then there are some big lizardy creatures as well. At one point during all this melee, I have to vomit really badly. And it is a horrendous, vomit, lots of foam and backtaste, purpley, gringey tasting stuff.

They tell me, we might need you to drink again. I am a bit resistant. I tell them, it will not be an hour before it starts working anyway. By that point it might be too late, all around me, THEY are fighting too. They move like the elves, I can barely see them, they move so fast. But as things progress, they become more comfortable with the situation, the despair lifts. They tell me, they gain power by overcoming these groups, like they are taking and using their weapons.

We come to the conclusion, we must take them down, there is no other way. This coalition, whoever they are, are vicious and appear as a real barrier to this work that wants to happen.

I tell them, I will be back in a few nights, and we will take them down and remove these obstacles. It is a clear agreement, it wasn’t me or them who made this agreement, it just seemed clear. This is all new for me, I’ve never worked with armies, against armies. But I know enough, that it is necessary to bring back balance, where there is an imbalance of power, where one side has too much power. It looks to me, that this opposition was sent in to stop this kingdom of this plant. Perhaps that happened at some time in the past, where the power of this plant was perceived to be too threatening. And the power of these forces, were some of the more tricky and confusing I’d ever seen, certainly equivalent to the power of these guys.



Postscript: I drank a few days later and nothing much happened. I do not think it was the right time!


Posted without permission. JP: message me if you really want it taken down.
 
Incarnation
#9 Posted : 11/23/2018 11:50:48 PM
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Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine
Volume 2016, Article ID 6826175, 6 pages
http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2016/6826175

Research Article
Effect of Alkaloids Isolated from Phyllodium pulchellum on Monoamine Levels and Monoamine Oxidase Activity in Rat Brain


Quote:

2.4. MAO

The effect of alkaloids isolated from P. pulchellum on MAO was evaluated in mitochondrial fractions from rat brain. As shown in Figure 3, P. pulchellum alkaloids significantly inhibited both MAO-A and MAO-B activity in a concentration-dependent pattern. The IC50 values calculated for alkaloids ( and  μg/mL for MAO-A and MAO-B, resp.) indicated high potency against MAO-A. Additionally, regarding the activity against MAO-A, the tested extracts displayed maximum inhibition above 85% in the highest concentrations evaluated.


(Image attached)
Figure 1: Chromatogram of total alkaloids of Phyllodium pulchellum with six alkaloids (1–6) indicated (210 nm).
Quote:

Totally, six alkaloids were obtained by various chromatography techniques (Figure 2). They were elucidated as N,N-dimethyltryptamine (1), 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (2), N-methyltetrahydrocarboline (3), 7-methoxy-N-methyltetrahydrocarboline (4), tryptamine (5), and N-methyl-3-indoylmethanamine (6) from their spectroscopic data upon comparisons with values reported in the literature [18]. According to the structure characteristics, six alkaloids can be divided into two different structure styles: compounds 1, 2, 5, and 6 belonged to indolealkylamine and compounds 3 and 4 were β-carboline alkaloids.


Incarnation attached the following image(s):
FA21C49F-AB31-40DD-9931-6A1695200BD6.png (278kb) downloaded 398 time(s).
 
twitchy
#10 Posted : 9/23/2019 8:29:42 AM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD1PwrdjhBE

Actually a pretty compelling candidate for Soma, IMO. Seeds look like they may be a rarity, but I'd love to add this one to my collection.
Author of this Post assumes no Responsibility, nor makes any Guarantee of the Accuracy or Validity of material in this Post. Material Contained or referred to in this Post is presented for Entertainment Purposes Only. This Material IS Not Intended to be Inferred, or Interpreted as Information, Advice, News, Instruction, or Factual Information.
 
downwardsfromzero
#11 Posted : 9/23/2019 9:52:47 PM

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From the paper:
Quote:
7-methoxy-N-methyltetrahydrocarboline (4)

This is slightly nerdy but, the numbering scheme the authors used diverges from the usual numbering convention of betacarbolines. They start counting from the nitrogen in the five-membered ring (in keeping with the somewhat out-of-fashion tryptoline numbering system), whereas betacarboline substitutions are conventionally numbered starting with the with the carbon at the "bottom" of the pyridine ring. So most chemists would know this compound as 6-methoxy-2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydrobetacarboline.

The attached image helps to explain this rather better.

Incidentally, in appendix 'F' of TIHKaL, this compound is listed as occurring in the following plant species:

Quote:
Anadenanthera peregrina (Leguminosae) bark
Antirhea lucida (Rubiaceae) root
Desmodium pulchellum (Leguminosae) [i.e. Phyllodium pulchellum, of this thread]
Dutaillyea oreophila (Rutaceae) leaf
Horsfeldia superba (Myristicaceae) leaf
Meconopsis horrida (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Meconopsis napaulensis (Papaveraceae)
Meconopsis paniculata (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Meconopsis robusta (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Meconopsis rudis (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Melicope leptococca (Rutaceae) leaf and stem
Nectandra megapotamica (Lauraceae) entire plant
Papaver rhoeas (Papaveraceae) root
Phalaris arundinacea (Graminae) aerial parts
Phalaris arundinacea, Clone R-5 (Graminae) aerial parts
Phalaris arundinacea var. Ottawa Synthetic C (Graminae) entire plant
Virola calophylla (Myristicaceae) wood
Virola rufula (Myristicaceae) bark and root
Virola theiodora (Myristicaceae) bark
downwardsfromzero attached the following image(s):
5MeO2MeTHBC numbering.jpg (13kb) downloaded 339 time(s).




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
twitchy
#12 Posted : 9/23/2019 10:05:25 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
...So most chemists would know this compound as 6-methoxy-2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydrobetacarboline.


Shocked Yeah, I would probably miss that one on an exam. LOL

Looked like there were other betacarbolines in there as well, apparently this being active on it's own without any additional admixtures is one of several reasons it was a possible candidate for soma. Julian Palmer mentioned that there was some other research that had led to this supposition, I'll have to see if I can dig it up. Pretty interesting and obscure entheogen though that piqued my curiosity. I can't find anyone offering seeds or plants and that always gets me going lol.
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The_Alchemist
#13 Posted : 4/16/2020 4:09:02 PM

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blue lunar night wrote:
Hi Nexians, long time no post. Not sure if Julian is persona non grata around here or what, but about 36 minutes into this presentation, he discusses his experiences hunting and working with this plant.


Im curious why did he cooked it all by itself and did not take any MAOI with it?
Do you think dried plant matter will work just as well as fresh? Alchemist might get his hands on dried plant matter

mycosis had somewhat positive results with that plant, but didn't post anything final
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...osts&t=14843&p=2
 
mycosis
#14 Posted : 4/16/2020 9:27:29 PM
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I feel like there was something there, but it wasn't enough to be detectable perhaps. That sample came from China...there's no telling how old it was or how it was dried unfortunately. I do have a few of these beauties growing...they are about seven months old or so now. I'm open to testing against them as long as I don't have to sacrifice the whole plant.

I was wondering if I were to take just several leaves that have fallen off perhaps, dehydrated them, ground them into a powder...could I run a TLC against it like that? I may not be able to run another extraction for some time Sad


I did share the vendor of these seeds in the appropriate thread (they are in the EU). I just ordered more Very happy . They don't guarantee viability, but I had a 30% germination rate.
 
endlessness
#15 Posted : 4/16/2020 10:07:00 PM

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Good luck!

Yeah you can run some TLC on it, you can also do a soak with the plant material and some of the eluent (or just any sort of crude extraction like freebasing and soak with appropriate solvent ) , then evap it and then try ehrlich on it to see if at least it detects some tryptamine
 
Cosmik358
#16 Posted : 4/18/2020 10:11:02 AM

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I got some dry phyllodium, but I'm completely ignorant on how to extract so I'm thinking in drinking it as tea since from what I understood from Julians report he drank 40 g dried and felt the effects. Does this mean one only needs to slowly (1 hour) boil the dry plant to make a tea? Any suggestions on quantities or enhancement methods?
I also got some seeds and will study about the plantation.

Otherwise I'm experienced with toad and different synthetic forms of 5-MeO.

 
The_Alchemist
#17 Posted : 4/20/2020 1:19:53 AM

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Cosmik358 wrote:
I got some dry phyllodium, but I'm completely ignorant on how to extract so I'm thinking in drinking it as tea since from what I understood from Julians report he drank 40 g dried and felt the effects. Does this mean one only needs to slowly (1 hour) boil the dry plant to make a tea? Any suggestions on quantities or enhancement methods?
I also got some seeds and will study about the plantation.




google that shit man, i haven't done any ayahuasca myself yet but if i remember correctly cook should be 4 to even 12h. (also according to some sources when preparing chinahuasca one should put kiwi fruit for some vitamin C, is that required ?)

Julian said he had times it did work with phylodium pulchellum and times when it didn't, makes me wonder, coz in China it is actually used as traditional medicine, and they do cook it for long time for the tcm benefits. do they not cook it long enough as Julian did, or it is some other strain that does not contain alkaloids in China? or that ascorbic acid needs to be added to bring out the goodies?

also Julian said in his 2019 speech on yt that MAOI does not go well with 5-MeO-DMT (orally), any thoughts on that? can changa be made with phyllodium and MAOI? maybe making ayahuasca with phyllodium +maoi could be tried? + lemon or vinegar for acidity ?

Alchemist has a result of his first AC ever made sitting in his freezer, i guess in 2 days we will see if this phyllodium will yield any results Smile
 
The_Alchemist
#18 Posted : 4/23/2020 6:37:37 PM

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Ok, so the result is whopping 0,36g out of 1.5 kg phyllodium pulchellum Laughing , which is ... pretty much nothing ... but still something. it was very yellow, especially at the bottom,


idk why pic broken, here is the link https://ibb.co/q0VX9yv

crystals (or rather sand) on the walls seemed white at first but after scraping turned out to be just slightly less yellow. Was done according to nexus handbook. don't know if its normal, but after recrystallization hot bath turned very milky white when separated, managed to remove all the yellow, now sitting in the freezer again shellite turned to it right color and there are white babies at the bottom.

... what should alchemist do next?

 
Ferrum
#19 Posted : 4/24/2020 6:53:18 PM

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There are little detections alone on the web that 5-meo dmt is orally active past 25mg . But not without physiological problems like raised blood pressure . So what he drank could have caused that without Maoi . Plus beta carbs are present in house anyway .
 
HolderChert
#20 Posted : 4/30/2020 11:14:51 AM
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downwardsfromzero wrote:
From the paper:
Quote:
7-methoxy-N-methyltetrahydrocarboline (4)

This is slightly nerdy but, the numbering scheme the authors used diverges from the usual numbering convention of betacarbolines. They start counting from the nitrogen in the five-membered ring (in keeping with the somewhat out-of-fashion tryptoline numbering system), whereas betacarboline substitutions are conventionally numbered starting with the with the carbon at the "bottom" of the pyridine ring. So most chemists would know this compound as 6-methoxy-2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydrobetacarboline.

The attached image helps to explain this rather better.

Incidentally, in appendix 'F' of TIHKaL, this compound is listed as occurring in the following plant species:

Quote:
Anadenanthera peregrina (Leguminosae) bark
Antirhea lucida (Rubiaceae) root
Desmodium pulchellum (Leguminosae) [i.e. Phyllodium pulchellum, of this thread]
Dutaillyea oreophila (Rutaceae) leaf
Horsfeldia superba (Myristicaceae) leaf
Meconopsis horrida (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Meconopsis napaulensis (Papaveraceae)
Meconopsis paniculata (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Meconopsis robusta (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Meconopsis rudis (Papaveraceae) entire plant
Melicope leptococca (Rutaceae) leaf and stem
Nectandra megapotamica (Lauraceae) entire plant
Papaver rhoeas (Papaveraceae) root
Phalaris arundinacea (Graminae) aerial parts
Phalaris arundinacea, Clone R-5 (Graminae) aerial parts
Phalaris arundinacea var. Ottawa Synthetic C (Graminae) entire plant
Virola calophylla (Myristicaceae) wood
Virola rufula (Myristicaceae) bark and root
Virola theiodora (Myristicaceae) bark


Sorry to digress, what naming system are you referring to? Certainly not IUPAC, as "betacarboline" is a common name. I'm trying to understand why not start at the amine, as it is the only group that would hold priority. Why start at the carbon labeled as "1" in the diagram you posted as less ambiguous.

I would really appreciate an explanation! I'm limited to IUPAC and some common names. Still have allot of nomenclature to learn.

I've recently got some seeds of this species and will be doing what I can to contribute. Also have access to some qualitative/quantitative analytical resources!
 
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