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Information about psychoactive Boletus species Options
 
Knarkkorven
#1 Posted : 1/10/2015 7:04:12 PM

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Last visit: 19-Aug-2017
Location: Sweden
Information about psychoactive Boletus species

The mushroom genus Boletus have some species reported as psychoactive/hallucinogenic. Here, I have collected all known information about them.

A common feature is red colors on the mushroom stipe and it turns blue very quickly when cut or handled. This bluing is NOT caused by oxidized psilocin!

Identify with care! No boletes are deadly, but some bluing boletes give stomache pains and diarrhea. Other Boleus is among the finest edibles, like Boletus edulis.


Unknown species from China

Read the PDF I attached to this post! It's very interesting!
Xiao Ren Ren: The “Little People” of Yunnan

A small quote about effects:

Quote:
It happened when she was a child, but she still
remembered the experience as if it were yesterday.
Her mother had bought some blue-staining
boletes from the market and stir-fried them for
the family, but she was in a hurry that evening
and presumably didn’t cook them for the
requisite amount of time. Miss Oh clearly
remembered the hallucinations that began that
evening and continued into the next day. The
walls moved and shifted in geometrical patterns
and strange shapes appeared.
“I’m sleepy all day,” she said in English. “I see
them [xiao ren ren]. And I see ?ies bigger than the
actual one, perhaps two times big. I see little
insects. Not all the time, but when the water
splashed out.” She apparently became fascinated
by the dripping kitchen faucet, for each drop
would, upon hitting the sink, sprout wings and
legs and crawl away. And she remembered, very
clearly, staring intently at the bows of her
shoelaces until they turned into butter?ies and
?uttered off. Her brother experienced similar
effects, but her mother and father did not feel
any — perhaps because they ate less proportional
to their body weight. Also, Miss Oh said, “I ate
too much,” i.e., much more than anyone else.
From that day on her mother refused to serve
boletes in the home,


Boletus satanas
Observe that this satanic species contains bolesatine which cause diarrhea... maybe even a diarrhea from hell! ; )

Quote:
Boletus satanas is responsible for a gastroenteric syndrome that, according to L. Giacomoni, it could be also a psychotropic one (Giacomoni 1985); probably, it contains indolic and isoxazolic derivatives. It is curious the popular name given in the italian dialect of Trentino, where it is called brisa matta, recalling the idea of madness (BRESADOLA1965).
Source: http://www.lycaeum.org/f...index.php?topic=16125.0


Quote:
Boletus satanas was described by German mycologist Harald Othmar Lenz in 1831, who gave it its sinister name, satanas/??????? - of Satan - derived from Hebrew via Ancient Greek,[1] after he felt ill from its "emanations" while describing it. He also knew of several reports of diarrhoea and sickness from those who had eaten it.[2] American mycologist Harry D. Thiers concluded that material from North America matches the species description, although some authorities have questioned this.[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boletus_satanas



Boletus erythropus:

I have picked this species in Sweden and consider it being edible. Taste good and no effects noticed. But since it is mentioned as psychoactive in one reference, I list it here.

Quote:
As for Boletus erythropus, in Internet sites is reported that it "contains unidentified hallucinogens (possibly psilocin/psilocybin)" and that more than 100 g fresh are ingested for psychoactive effects; in this species, the non-psychoactive tryptamine was identified and it is expected the presence of putrescine (Smith 1977, Stijve 2003a).
https://forum.magiskamolekyler.org/index.php?showtopic=14586


Boletus manicus
The most documented psychoactive bolete, but still, we don't have any information about the active ingredients, more than claims of it being an indole alkaloid.

Report about activity:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/40329252

Perhaps due to eating tobacco at the same time?
http://www.shaman-australis.com/~benjamin-...komugl_tai.html

Observe that I have left out the reference list from the quote below, click the link to read it.

Quote:
Boletus Manicus
Boletus manicus Heim nonda gegwants nyimbil

ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION: Revue de Mycologie 28(3-4):280-281, 1963.
Boletus manicus Heim was first collected and described by the French mycologist Roger Heim [1900-1979] from the Wahgi Valley in the Western Highlands District of the Territory of New Guinea (now the Western Highlands Province of Papua New Guinea) (Heim 1963a; 1965). In August to September 1963, Heim visited the Wahgi Valley for three weeks with American ethnomycologist R. Gordon Wasson (Heim 1963a; 1963b; 1965; 1966; 1972; 1973; 1978; Heim & Wasson 1964; 1965). Heim and Wasson visited the Wahgi Valley to investigate reports by Australian anthropologist Marie Reay that the Kuma people of the Nangamp cultural group used apparently hallucinogenic fungi (Reay 1959; 1960).

FAMILY: Boletaceae; Order: Agaricales; Class: Basidiomycetes.
SYNONYM: Tubiporus manicus (Heim 1972:171; Rätsch 1998 ).
VERNACULAR NAMES: [Kuma] nonda gegwants ngimbigl (Heim 1972:171; Heim & Wasson 1964; 1965) or nonda gegwants nyimbil (Reay 1977).
CHOROLOGY: Wahgi Valley, Western Highlands Province, Papua New Guinea.
HABITAT: Originally found growing around the village of Kondambi in the Wahgi Valley.

MYCOLOGICAL DESCRIPTION: PILEUS 13-16 cm in diameter, hemispheric, expanded, typically thick, usually creamy white but ranges through biscuit colour to walnut with brownish-red spots, downy-velvet skin with mainly involuted borders and the flesh beneath the cuticle is firm with a leafy green appearance tinged with lemon and cream, colouration somewhat more intense inside the cap being a pale bluish lemon but is a deeper yellow in young mushrooms, shallow hymenium (+ 5 mm) which is not decurrent, brick-red at first and later streaked with moss-green. STIPE cylindrical, pestle-shaped, thick but not stubby, thinner towards the top and becoming thicker near the base which has a markedly root like appearance, lacking any red tinge but has green markings at the base, faintly pink at the top, upper section has polygonal reddish-pink network. FLESH has a quite strong smell and bitter taste. SPORES 9-10.8 X 4-4.6 µ (Heim 1972:172).
Heim (1972) has compared B. manicus to the European species Boletus satanas Lenz [Boletaceae]. Like B. satanas, B. manicus has a whitish, felt-covered cap, a red hymenium, a marked red network on the stipe and a strong smell. However, B. satanas is larger in size, has a thick stipe shorter than the cap, lacks a marked root-like base and heavy red markings. The flesh of B. satanas is almost white, soft and almost sweet rather than bitter. B. satanas has deep tubes which are sometimes blackish stained and has larger spores (11-16 X 5-7µ ). B. manicus then is smaller and more slender that B. satanas and its flesh is firmer, bitter and more highly coloured. The stipe of B. manicus has a root-like base and lacks any red except in the network on the upper stipe. B. manicus also has narrow tubes and smaller spores (Heim 1972:173).


HISTORY: The use of nonda mushrooms was first reported from the Mount Hagen area of the Western Highlands by Father William A. Ross (1936:351). Ross, an American Catholic priest of the Divine Word (S. V. D.) who had been living in the Wahgi Valley since 1933, noted that "...ginger [Zingiber spp. (Zingiberaceae)] called kobena and a kind of wild mushroom called nonda" were the only "...quasi-narcotics [sic] or stimulants" used in the Mount Hagen area (1936:351). According to Ross (1936:351) "...The wild mushroom called nonda makes the user temporarily insane. He flies into a fit of frenzy. Death is even known to have resulted from its use. It is used before going out to kill another native, or in times of great excitement, anger or sorrow". American anthropologist Abraham L. Gitlow also referred to the use of "...a type of wild mushroom" called nonda from the Mount Hagen area (1947:18 ). Gitlow's description of nonda (1947:18 ) is similar to the description by Ross (1936:351). According to Gitlow, "...The wild mushroom incites fits of frenzy, and has even been known to result in death. It is taken before going out to kill an enemy, or in times of anger, sorrow, or excitement" (1947:18 ). Ross's original description of nonda mushrooms (1936:351) has also been reported in several publications (Vicedom & Tischner 1943-1948; Wasson & Wasson 1957; Dobkin de Rios 1984). The pioneering ethnomycologists Valentina Pavlovna Wasson and R. Gordon Wasson learned of Father Ross' account of nonda mushrooms in the Wahgi Valley and described the effects of nonda mushrooms in their epic work Mushrooms Russia and History (1957).
American mycologist Rolf Singer (1958 ) then identified nonda as a single new species, Russula nondorbingi Singer [Russulaceae]. Singer had examined specimens of nonda that had been sent to the Royal Botanic Gardens in Kew, England, by Dorothy Shaw from the Papua New Guinea Department of Agriculture, Stock and Fisheries (Shaw 1972). Nonda, according to Singer (1958 ) produced "cerebral mycetisms". Singer, however, never visited the Wahgi Valley to collect nonda mushrooms. In early October 1954, Australian anthropologist Marie Reay had observed that some of the Kuma who lived near Minj in the Central Wahgi Valley (Western Highlands District, New Guinea) suddenly began to run "amuck" (1959:188 ). The Kuma attributed this behaviour to eating a "mushroom-like fungus, nonda" (Reay 1959:188 ). Nonda was eaten by the Kuma all year, but at certain times of the year it produced "...temporary insanity in some" (Reay 1959:188 ). Reay first reported the use of nonda mushrooms by the Kuma in her monograph The Kuma: Freedom and Conformity in the New Guinea Highlands (1959:188-190). A brief ethnographic report by Reay ("'Mushroom madness' in the New Guinea Highlands" ) appeared in the journal Oceania in 1960 and discussed the use of the apparently hallucinogenic fungus nonda among the Kuma (1960). Reay originally informally identified four varieties of nonda associated with the outbreak of "mushroom madness" among the Kuma: tuaadwa (white with yellow stem); kermaikip (red with white stem); ngam-kindjkants (orange) and ngam-ngam (orange with purple middle stem) (1960: 137; vide Heim 1963b:197-198 ). Heim identified all four types of nonda described by Reay (1960:137) as species of Boletus: B. nigroviolaceus Heim [Boletaceae] (tuaadwa); B. nigerrimus Heim [Boletaceae] (kermaikip); B. kumaeus Heim [Boletaceae] (ngamp-kindjkants); and B. reayi Heim [Boletaceae] (ngam-ngam) (1963a; 1963b; Emboden 1972:26). Heim and R. Gordon Wasson decided to "...explore Minj and the Mt. Hagen area with a view to making further observations and collecting the species involved" (Heim 1972:171). Heim and Wasson spent three weeks in the Wahgi Valley in August and September 1963 with Reay and collected and identified nonda mushrooms associated with Kuma "mushroom madness" (Heim & Wasson 1964; 1965). As a result, Heim and Wasson collected and identified eleven species of nonda associated with Kuma "mushroom madness": Boletus flammeus Heim [Boletaceae] (nonda ulné Kobi); B. kumaeus Heim [Boletaceae] (nonda ngamp kindjkants); B. manicus Heim [Boletaceae] (nonda gegwants ngimbigl); B. nigerrimus Heim [Boletaceae] (nonda kermaipip); B. nigroviolaceus Heim [Boletaceae] (nonda tua-rua); B. reayi Heim [Boletaceae] (nonda ngam-ngam); Heimiella anguiformis Heim [Boletaceae] (nonda mbolbe); Russula agglutinata Heim [Russulaceae] (nonda mos); R. kirinea Heim [Russulaceae] (kirin); R. maenadum Heim [Russulaceae] (nonda mos); and R. psuedomaenadum Heim [Russulaceae] (nonda wam) (Heim 1972:171-172). Heim & Wasson (1965:20) concluded that "...The mushrooms - or at least most of them - do not seem to cause physiological effects leading to madness", thus establishing that these species of nonda had no hallucinogenic properties (cf. Heim 1972).


ETHNOBOTANICAL DATA: B. manicus has been mentioned in several popular books on psychoactive plants (Emboden 1972; 1979; Schultes & Hofmann 1979; 1992; Ott 1993; 1996; Rätsch 1998 ). The Kuma name for this mushroom, nonda gegwants ngimbigl or nonda gegwants nyimbil, means literally "left-handed penis" because of the shape of the stem which to the Kuma evidently is reminiscent of a man's penis (Reay 1977:67-68 ) The Kuma also believed that this mushroom must be picked with the left hand (Reay 1977:68 ).
B. manicus is one of six mushroom species considered to be responsible for komugl taï and ndaadl among the Kuma (Heim 1972:171). Komugl taï is "...the condition of persons allegedly affected by mushrooms... [and] signifies a 'shivering madness'" (Reay 1977:55). The term also refers to a 1949 cargo cult that the Kuma participated in (Reay 1977:55). In Yu Wi (Yoowi), the language of the Kuma, Komugl means "ear" and also "deafness" (Reay 1977:55; Heim & Wasson 1965:15). In other areas of Papua New Guinea where outbreaks of temporary madness also occur, the local term for the state of madness also often indicates "deafness" (Clarke 1973:199). Among the Kuma, the term komugl covers any kind of inability to comprehend, including permanent and temporary madness (Reay 1977:55; Heim & Wasson 1965:15). Komugl is directly translatable into Tok Pisin (Pidgin) as "longlong" ("mad" or "madness" ) (Reay 1977:55). Taï is the Kuma formal name for the Raggiana Bird of Paradise (Paradisaea raggiana). However, in the context of the cargo cult and "mushroom madness", taï means "shivering" (Reay 1977:56). This is suggested to be based on the male Raggiana bird shivering to display his plumes (Heim & Wasson 1965:15; Reay 1977:56). Komugl taï then literally means "shivering deafness" in Yu Wi (Yoowi). Ndaadl (daad) is the term for the condition of Kuma women during komugl taï and is also the name of the dance performed by the women (Reay 1960:139). Kuma women did not usually eat B. manicus (Reay 1977:67). B. manicus, however, could affect both men and women in the same way. In 1965 Reay (1977:67-68 ) observed a woman who was said to have eaten nonda gegwants nyimbil (B. manicus). This woman became aggressive like men affected by komugl taï and seized a spear and ran around threatening other women (Reay 1977:67-68 ).


CHEMISTRY AND ACTIVITY: B. manicus has been reported to contain indolic substances (Heim 1965; 1972; 1978; Ott 1993:422; Rätsch 1998 :688 ). Albert Hofmann detected trace amounts of three indolic substances in B. manicus (Heim 1965; 1978; Ott 1993:298&422; 1999). Heim (1972:173) has suggested that these indolic substances "...could be psychotropic". As a result, Heim conducted three bioassays with B. manicus (Heim 1965; 1972; 1978 ). Three trials with "weak doses" (less than 60 mg (Ott 1993:298 )) of B. manicus were attempted by Heim, who suggested that "...the amounts were insufficient to make any definite deductions" (Heim 1972:173). However, in the second trial, the ingestion of a powder made by crushing the flesh of B. manicus was followed by "...the appearance of several luminous, fleeting visions during the course of a dream" (Heim 1972:173; vide Heim 1965; 1978 ).


KNOWN EFFECTS: B. manicus has been reported to have "...somewhat toxic properties" (Schultes & Hofmann 1979:36). Evidence for the presence of indolic substances in B. manicus can be found in the description of both the auditory and visual effects of nonda mushrooms (Reay 1977). After ingesting a species of nonda, most likely the variety gegwants nyimbil (B. manicus), Kuma men experienced "Lilliputian hallucinations" [sic] of bush-demons flying about their heads (Reay 1977:59). Such demons would "buzz" about their heads. It was reported by one Kuma man who had eaten nonda that these demons also made a "...strange and terrible noise 'inside his ears' which he interpreted as a bush-demon boxing his ears" (Reay 1977:59). Psilocybine and other tryptamines often produce a similar "buzzing" noise (Beach 1996-1997:13). The Kuma regarded bush-demons as "...tiny, two-dimensional, and often transparent creatures... [and]... always identified cartoon figures... readily and positively as representations of bush-demons". Kuma bush-demons were seen, heard or felt to be any size up to the length of a person's forearm and could either be fat or thin. However, during komugl tai bush demons were supposed to be about the same size and proportions as wild bees (Reay 1977: 59 n.7). Ethnopsychiatrist B. G. Burton-Bradley (1970) has claimed that the Kuma's nonda-induced hallucinations of bush demons are "...more bizarre" than any other descriptions of bush-demons elsewhere in Papua New Guinea. "Lilliputian hallucinations" [sic] have also been experienced with the ludible use of some tryptamines (O'Rorke 1998 :32). On the basis of these ethnographic observations, I conjecture that B. manicus may contain psychoactive constituent(s).
Source: Benjamin Thomas Ethnobotany & Anthropology Research Page



Quote:
Boletus Manicus Heim

Benjamin Thomas, B.A.(Hons)*
Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 35(3), 393-394 (2003)

Abstract
Boletus manicus Heim [Boletaceae] is a species of fungus found in Papua New Guinea. It is reported to have psychoactive properties. The chemistry of this species is poorly understood. The available chemical data indicates that B. manicus contains trace amounts of three unidentified indolic substances. The chemical structure of these substances has not yet been determined. For these indoles to be active in trace amounts they must be as potent as d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD).

Boletus manicus Heim [Family: Boletaceae; Order: Agaricales; Class: Basidiomycetes] is a species of fungi that was originally collected and described by the French mycologist Roger Heim [1900-1979] from Papua New Guinea in the 1960s (Heim 1963). In August to September 1963, Heim visited the Wahgi Valley in the Western Highlands Province of Papua New Guinea for three weeks with American ethnomycologist R. Gordon Wasson [1898-1986] (Heim & Wasson 1965). Heim and Wasson visited the Wahgi Valley to investigate reports by Australian anthropologist Marie Reay [1922-2000] that the Kuma people used apparently hallucinogenic [sic] fungi (Reay 1960). B. manicus has become well known for its psychoactive properties, as a result of many popular books (Rätsch 1998; Dobkin de Rios 1984; Schultes & Hofmann 1979; Emboden 1972). It is reported to produce visual and auditory hallucinations (Thomas 2000: 172)

The chemistry of B. Manicus remains poorly understood and the active principle is unkown (Schultes & Hofmann 1980). However, B. Manicus contain indolic substances (Ratsch 1998 : 688;Ott 1993: 422). The presence of these indolic substances was originally reported by Heim(Heim 1965) Heim provided samples of B. Manicus to Albert Hofmann in his Sandoz AG laboratory in Basel, Switzerland, in the 1960s (Hofmann 2001). Hofmann, the Swiss chemist who discovered d-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), detected trace amounts of three indolic substances in B. Manicus (Ott 1993: 298 & 422) but "The amounts were too low to allow structural studies" (Hofmann 2001).

Heim has suggested that these indolic substances "could be psychotropic" (Heim 1072: 173). As a result, Heim conducted three bioassays with B. Manicus. These trials with "weak dose"( less than 60 mg; Ott 1993:298 ) were attemped by Heim, who suggested that "the amount were insufficient to make any definite deductions" (Heim 1972:173).

However, in the second trial, the ingestion of a powder made by crushing the fresh of B. Manicus was followed by "the appearance of several luminous, fleeting visions during the course of a dream" (Heim 19072: 173)

Evidence for the presence of indolic substances in B. manicus can be found in the description of both the visual and auditory effects of these mushrooms (Reay 1977). After ingesting B. manicus Kuma men experienced "Lilliputian hallucinations [sic]" (Reay 1977: 59). Similar hallucinations have been reported with other species of Boletus (Stijve 1997: 33). In China, the ingestion of uncooked boletes has been reported to produce hallucinations of "a whole regiment of 2 cm tall soldiers marching over the table-cloth" (Stijve 1997: 33). "Lilliputian hallucinations [sic]" have also been experienced with the use of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) (O'Rorke 1998 : 32). The Kuma experienced "Lilliputian hallucinations [sic]" of bush-demons flying about their heads (Reay 1977: 59). The Kuma regarded bush-demons as "tiny, two-dimensional, and often transparent creatures . . . [and] always identified cartoon figures . . . readily and positively as representations of bush-demons" (Reay 1977: 59). Such demons would "buzz" about their heads. It was reported by one Kuma man who had eaten B. manicus that these demons also made a "strange and terrible noise 'inside his ears' which he interpreted as a bush-demon boxing his ears" (Reay 1977: 59). Psilocybin often produces a similar "buzzing" noise (Beach 1996-1997: 13).

If any of the unidentified indolic substances in B. manicus are psychoactive, then they must be as potent, if not more potent, than LSD (Ott 1999). Assuming that B. manicus contains 1% of these indolic substances, which is a much higher concentration of indoles than Hofmann found in Mexican Psilocybe mushrooms (Hofmann 1960), a 1% concentration would represent less than 0.6 mg (600 µg) of these substances (Ott 1999). Jonathan Ott has suggested that "we know of no fungal indole active at this level" (Ott 1999). The only substance that could explain psychoactivity at or below this level is LSD (Ott 1999). It is, of course, possible that B. manicus might contain LSD. If it does, it is difficult to understand why Albert Hofmann was unable to detect its presence in B. manicus samples that he analyzed in his laboratory. For this reason, it is unlikely that B. manicus does contain LSD. It is possible, however, that B. manicus contains an as yet unidentified psychoactive indolic substance that is more potent than LSD.

* independent anthropologist, Queensland, Australia.
Source: http://www.intensevisuals.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=157



Quote:
"Heim and Wasson concurred in believing that mushroom madness permitted cultural dramas to be enacted harmlessly with the mushroom being the scapegoat. Ror Reay, the madness was 'institutionalized deviance' or a sort of ritualistic rebellion. Amoung those who have worked on the New Guinea mushroom madness, there is controvery as to wheather the mushroom actually lead to psysiologically based madness, or whether it is a combination of social and psychological factors. Nelson has adduced a substantial body of information which supports the contention that it is a chemically based intoxication. Further, he notes that the Kaimbi are unanimous in their judgment that at least two of these mushrooms lead to a madness that is a 'bad trip' and the madness in one instance may last for as long as two months. It is sometimes necessary to overtake the 'mad one' and physically restrain him by binding him with ropes and keeping him near a fire until the delusions have passed." Source: http://www.shaman-austra...ndex.php?showtopic=7899



Other species mentioned in the literature:

Quote:
BOLETUS SPECIES (KUMA):
Corner, 1972; Stijve, 1997a.
Boletus flammeus: Heim, 1965b; Heim,1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978b.
Boletus kumeus: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Boleteus manicus: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Boletus nigerrimus Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Boletus nigroviolaceus: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Boletus raeyi: Heim, 1965b; Heim, 1972; Heim & Wasson, 1965; Singer, 1978.
Source: John Allen
 

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pitubo
#2 Posted : 1/10/2015 10:56:28 PM

dysfunctional word machine

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Boletus erythropus is certainly edible and not active in my experience (a few occasions of picking and eating under the informed assumption of edibility).

I can't find proper references right now, but AFAIK the boletus manicus story has been largely deconstructed. What was found in New Zealand (IIRC) is a psilocybe that does not open up its cap properly so that the spores stay trapped inside.
 
Knarkkorven
#3 Posted : 1/10/2015 11:27:48 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 42
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Quote:
Boletus erythropus is certainly edible and not active in my experience (a few occasions of picking and eating under the informed assumption of edibility).

Yeah, I pick and eat it almost every time I find it. The fungus eating larvae often leave it alone, so the flesh have good quality.

But the thing about the psychoactive boletes is that the cooking/frying process might destroy the active ingredients. So even though we didn't feel anything, there might have been something there from the beginning.
Read the attached pdf! It's the most interesting part of my post really. Thumbs up

Quote:
I can't find proper references right now, but AFAIK the boletus manicus story has been largely deconstructed. What was found in New Zealand (IIRC) is a psilocybe that does not open up its cap properly so that the spores stay trapped inside.

Weraroa novae-zelandiae? Or perhaps Psilocybe Subsecotioides? I don't think anyone would misidentify species from those genera as a Boletus.
 
pitubo
#4 Posted : 1/11/2015 5:43:07 PM

dysfunctional word machine

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Knarkkorven wrote:
But the thing about the psychoactive boletes is that the cooking/frying process might destroy the active ingredients. So even though we didn't feel anything, there might have been something there from the beginning.

Boletus erythropus (which by the way now goes under the name Boletus luridiformis) is also commonly named "witches bolete" in my native tongue. This does not necessarily imply the presence of hallucinogenic substances though. It may indicate that only "witches" knew the secret of correct preparation for edibility, that the mushroom was "cursed" or even simply relating to the fact that the mushroom stains blue.

I have not always thoroughly overcooked, as much as the pdf describes, all of the boletus luridiformis species that I have eaten, but I have never experienced any effects, neither psychologically, nor gastrointestinally. The "xiao ren ren" phenomenon doesn't appear very much like the effects of psilocybin either, although cultural conditioning might be a factor in the effects one experiences. As I like to say: the most powerful hallucinogens known to man are suggestion and culture (a coherent system of suggestions).

About the "nonda", it appears to me from the available information that all reports of strong psychoactivity are hearsay: a catholic missionary and an anthropologist, neither of whom have experienced the effects first hand. Their descriptions of nonda mushroom also seem to be based on second hand descriptions by tribesmen, who do not always relate information correctly or truthfully to intruders. When finally Wasson and Heim arrive at the scene, who actually do try to obtain first hand knowledge and experience, they find no psychoactivity and propose a cultured ritual of abreaction in which the mushroom is the scapegoat.

Knarkkorven wrote:
Weraroa novae-zelandiae? Or perhaps Psilocybe Subsecotioides? I don't think anyone would misidentify species from those genera as a Boletus.

Psilocybe weraroa is what I was thinking of. I may have confused two stories about hallucinogenic non-agaricales, the weraroa one actually being mistaken for pouch mushroom.

The pdf in an interesting read nonetheless. I would not doubt it as much as the overly optimistic nonda reports and rumors. The author does state that very much is still unknown.
 
Knarkkorven
#5 Posted : 1/11/2015 7:24:45 PM

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Quote:
The "xiao ren ren" phenomenon doesn't appear very much like the effects of psilocybin either, although cultural conditioning might be a factor in the effects one experiences. As I like to say: the most powerful hallucinogens known to man are suggestion and culture (a coherent system of suggestions).


Psilocybin/psilocin can be boiled for hours without breaking down, so that's definitely out of the question.

I don't think all the references to hallucinogenic bluing boletes can be dismissed so easy. There's no proof yet, but I believe the stories about xiao ren ren told by so many people are pointing toward something else than just "suggestion and culture". Hopefully we will see more research by mycologists and ethnobotanists on this subject in the future. China and Papua New Guinea has lots of plants undiscovered mushrooms species waiting to come into the light of science.

Quote:
Psilocybe weraroa is what I was thinking of.


Yes, the new name of Weraroa novae-zelandiae. DNA analyzes put it in Psilocybe. And we can't keep the same name for a species more than a few years before having to change it, right? Very happy
 
pitubo
#6 Posted : 1/11/2015 9:44:39 PM

dysfunctional word machine

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Knarkkorven wrote:
I don't think all the references to hallucinogenic bluing boletes can be dismissed so easy. There's no proof yet, but I believe the stories about xiao ren ren told by so many people are pointing toward something else than just "suggestion and culture". Hopefully we will see more research by mycologists and ethnobotanists on this subject in the future. China and Papua New Guinea has lots of plants undiscovered mushrooms species waiting to come into the light of science.

I generally agree that there are still plenty of interesting things hallucinogenic to be discovered and also that there seems to be actual substance of some kind to the xiao ren ren.

But still I see no reason to acclaim hallucinogenic boletes on the basis of current and verified knowledge. AFAICS the nonda story so far is mostly re-parroted hype, whatever the possible existence of any actual hallucinogenic bolete. We just don't know anything yet.
 
Knarkkorven
#7 Posted : 1/11/2015 10:42:36 PM

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Quote:
But still I see no reason to acclaim hallucinogenic boletes on the basis of current and verified knowledge.


No, we don't have any verified species, only various references, reports and anecdotes about blue staining psychoactive boletes that I compiled into this thread... I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough with this in my first post.

Perhaps there are some brave people out there who are willing to bio assay undercooked bluing Boletus and report back about the effects (or lack of them). I´m not encouraging anyone now, but to verify or dismiss any species mentioned here, that's probably the only possible way to go, because we don't know what kind of compounds we are looking for with chemical composition analysis.
 
pitubo
#8 Posted : 1/11/2015 10:52:49 PM

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Knarkkorven wrote:
Perhaps there are some brave people out there who are willing to bio assay undercooked bluing Boletus and report back about the effects (or lack of them). I´m not encouraging anyone now, but to verify or dismiss any species mentioned here, that's probably the only possible way to go, because we don't know what kind of compounds we are looking for with chemical composition analysis.

Well, I'm not going to stop you from trying it yourself, but if we are going to advise people on the nexus to experiment with this, we ought better have good protocols for safety and accuracy in place beforehand...
 
Knarkkorven
#9 Posted : 1/11/2015 11:38:54 PM

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I will never advise someone here to do it.
But i will probably try it myself sometime... Smile
 
Bones
#10 Posted : 4/2/2020 12:41:26 AM
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Dennis McKenna mentions potential psychoactive boletes in the last part of his talk from the ESPD50 conference in 2017. Made me curious enough to search about it. Just before 41:00 in this talk: Dennis McKenna ESPD50 Talk

 
 
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