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Removing Fumaric Acid Options
 
Nanaki
#1 Posted : 2/4/2009 4:14:00 AM

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I've got nearly 2 grams of DMT Fumarate + Fumaric Acid. The Acetone/Xylene has all but evapped since a week ago.

I read that pouring more acetone through this in a funnel might help remove fumaric acid, but I'm worried about a loss of the DMT fumarate.

I have a baggie with white powder mixed with the long-thin extals.

I want to be sure of what I could do to clear off the remaining Fumaric acid, so I can get a true weight.
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Jorkest
#2 Posted : 2/4/2009 5:36:51 AM

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acetone will work fine...it wont take any dmt fumarate with it
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memo
#3 Posted : 2/4/2009 5:56:12 AM

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Just make very sure that the acetone is perfectly anhydrous. Any water entrained in the acetone could give you problems.
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Nanaki
#4 Posted : 2/5/2009 12:36:17 AM

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Just put the fumarate/FA in a coffee filter in a funnel and poured maybe 1/8 cup of a bit of anhydrous acetone over the powder in 2 goes.

Did SWIM do the right thing to be sure that what was left in the filter is the fumarate and what went out was just the fumaric acid?

H is evapping what went through the filter just in case some did make it through.
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amor_fati
#5 Posted : 2/5/2009 3:13:52 AM

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SWIM has a simpler way, because he doesn't trust filters one bit. Put the fumarate in a vessel that will be easy scrape/scoop the spice out of, pour in a decent amount of acetone, break up the spice to a powder in the acetone, allow to settle, decant and repeat to satisfaction. When ready to dry it, just scoop it out onto a plate, and air or oven dry. If you scoop it all together while it's still wet with acetone, it will dry into hard rocks.

If you don't wash them, xylene fumes will continue to re-emerge whenever their container is opened; this is more why SWIM washes them than to clean off fumaric acid. SWIM learned this lesson the hard way. He ingested the fumarates while he thought that because he had aired them out, and the odor was gone, that there was no toulene left on them. They were still quite powdery at the time (they should be rocky). SWIM ended up burping up toulene fumes which is not a pleasant experience.
 
69ron
#6 Posted : 2/5/2009 4:33:33 AM

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amor_fati wrote:
SWIM ended up burping up toulene fumes which is not a pleasant experience.


Same thing happened to SWIM, but with bufotenine purified in xylene. He thought he had air dried it completely. The xylene smell was completely gone. He ingested 100 mg of the purified bufotenine and after a while he burped a few nasty xylene flavored burps! YUCK! Really nasty! (By the way, SWIM doesn’t recommend bufotenine orally, it’s not pleasant.)

It’s always a good idea to clean it with acetone. Especially if its going to be ingested. You don't want to ingest any xylene or similar solvents. Acetone is relatively safe in small amounts.
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Faust
#7 Posted : 2/14/2009 2:39:08 AM

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amor_fati wrote:
SWIM has a simpler way, because he doesn't trust filters one bit. Put the fumarate in a vessel that will be easy scrape/scoop the spice out of, pour in a decent amount of acetone, break up the spice to a powder in the acetone, allow to settle, decant and repeat to satisfaction. When ready to dry it, just scoop it out onto a plate, and air or oven dry. If you scoop it all together while it's still wet with acetone, it will dry into hard rocks.

If you don't wash them, xylene fumes will continue to re-emerge whenever their container is opened; this is more why SWIM washes them than to clean off fumaric acid.
SWIM learned this lesson the hard way. He ingested the fumarates while he thought that because he had aired them out, and the odor was gone, that there was no toulene left on them. They were still quite powdery at the time (they should be rocky). SWIM ended up burping up toulene fumes which is not a pleasant experience.


Oh I see?

SWIM will have to do it your way in order to get such ideal results!!

So could you elaborate on the air oven [as to what temperature and time for] drying step?
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amor_fati
#8 Posted : 2/14/2009 8:23:07 PM

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The lowest temperature possible. Around 120F or 150F. It's usually marked as "warm" on the dial.
 
bufoman
#9 Posted : 5/1/2009 4:51:48 AM

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I know this is a late reply but SWIM FOAF has figured out the answer to this issue. It had been driving her mad because she had all this contaminated product. See SWIMs thread about alternate FASA purification step.

Water actually works great. Way better than acetone. One has to use a lot of acetone and even still much fumaric acid can remain in the final product. Fumaric acid is not water soluble (a very little bit but practically not at all) but DMT fumarate is very water soluble. So barely any of the fumaric acid dissolves and all of the DMT fum does. Just decant the water into a clean beaker and then one can actually use the water to re-crystalize the DMT fumarate and get nice big transparent crystals of pure DMT fumarate or just quickly evap to get smaller crystals See SWIMS thread for the technique. It really works well.
 
bufoman
#10 Posted : 5/1/2009 2:59:46 PM

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This really works well. NE SWIMS with friends that have FASA product sitting around should tell them to give it a shot. They will not be disappointed. If your product is fully water soluble it means that the acetone took out all the fumaric acid but this is unlikely unless you used a lot and let it sit. Here is the Tech

Once one has collected the white-offwhite crystals that have collected on the bottom and inside of the jar. They are placed in a clean beaker. (These crystals contain both DMT fumerate and a large portion of unreacted Fumaric acid.)

To separate the desirables from the fumaric acid one simply adds 12mL H2O per gram of material. (the DMT fumarate is soluble in the water while the fumaric acid is not).

The aqueous (now yellow) solution is carefully decanted into a clean beaker or drying surface.

The water is reduced by 1/2 with a hair drier and then allow to sit open to the air and slowly evaporate.

Within a day (at most) large transparent crystals will begin to precipitate out one can collect these. (If one does not care about ascetics the solution can just be rapidly evaporate with a hair drier or on the oven and the crystals utilized right away. However SWIM recommends the crystallization.)

The remaining solution is then reduced again with a hair drier and allowed to sit as before. Once it has fully evaporated the crystals that collect can be collected.

One now has highly pure DMT fumarate. The crystals are very nice to look at. One can attempt to wash the fumaric acid crystals again with an additional 10mL of H2O to see if any crystals are obtained however due to its solubility most of the DMT fumarate will collect during the first attempt.
 
 
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