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Breakthrough with eyes open? Options
 
Espiridion
#1 Posted : 4/2/2009 5:46:51 PM

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I am not sure I have broken through yet. Most of my experiences are with open eyes. I have had the world in front of me become utterly unrecognizable, objects losing their depth completely, faces of every type in every static pattern around, everything is most certainly a dream and when I begin to come back my body feels...well...like my body. The first deep trip resulted in some strange convulsions and I have since gotten control of them with each consecutive trip. When I see the term breakthrough, I wonder if they are all cev or some oev. Can the forum please elucidate for me?

Thanks,
J.
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Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. Carl Jung

 

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modsquad09
#2 Posted : 4/2/2009 5:52:10 PM

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youll know when you break through.. sounds like your almost there!

I always close my eyes and "let go" after that 3rd toke & i don't open them till its over.. you can open them easier at small doses...

its really hard to get there just off dmt alone.. you really gotta push the limits & smoke as much as possible.. 3 big tokes.
Everything above me is really a lie... think for yourself & question authority!
 
Big Inhale
#3 Posted : 4/2/2009 5:57:15 PM

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Ive seen my friend have an oev breakthrough. Its pretty intense. D seems to force my eyes closed. Always chaotic then when its to much eyes close and peace sets in.
Can you Imagine? From one single Idea everything appeared here.
RZA

Here in the Prime Creators universe all things are possible,because all things are possible many lessons are learned.

None Of This Is Real!
 
WSaged
#4 Posted : 4/2/2009 7:11:59 PM

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Yeah man, you should really lay back on your bed, or something where you can sprawl out a bit & close your eyes!!

As I lay back on my bed I make a conscious effort to lay my arms at my sides, NOT on top of my chest.
I noticed once during a sub-breakthrough dose, how heavy my arms felt on top of my chest & when I removed them it was like an anchor was lifted and I immediately lost the feeling of being inside of my body.
Same with music playing, or the damn air conditioner humming in the background etc..., music is definitely interesting to hear while under DMT's influence, but it holds you in this space. DMT has a beautiful, echoing, chime-like music of its own, that lends a hypnotic hand in pulling/pushing you through the veil.
Also, if I may continue my recommendation, light a single candle, or dim the lights considerably, then turn off any music.
Get rid of as much real-world stimulus as you can!!!

I think of a breakthrough as a full-on trance-like state & it can be easily broken by any disturbance.
To me, a "breakthrough" is when all of ones senses are completely overtaken & changed to detect a different stimulus.
If you are still experiencing stimulus from your normal consciousness, it can be cool to see how it is warped or combined with other senses. But if you get rid of all stimulus from your normal consciousness, you are able to experience the stimulus of this altered state easier & without interruption!!
Once all of your senses are fully focused on the DMT-space & its set of stimulus, you are there Completely !!
Just as you are here, in this space, reading your computer screen, right now Completely !!

Try it, dim light (sight), quiet place, no music (hearing), lay down, stretch out, get comfortable, arms not on your chest (touch), light some Palo Santo, or White Sage incense (smell) & get into a relaxed, slow breathing state.
Now smoke your DMT.
Take as many hits as you can, then force yourself to take one more before putting the pipe down, lay back & close those eyes!! The vast 3(?4?) dimensional space that unfolds will make you wish you had done this much, much sooner.

I don't know how to deal with the sense of taste except to try & have nothing in your mouth that might leave an aftertaste before smoking.?.?
The Palo Santo, or White Sage incenses are both very nice scent that gives off a good mellow vibe.
Plus they are both used in spiritual rituals to protect & cleanse a space of negative energy & as an "offering to the spirits".
Nice vibe for the ride.


2 cents...

WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
modsquad09
#5 Posted : 4/2/2009 7:35:48 PM

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well said Warren!
Everything above me is really a lie... think for yourself & question authority!
 
antrocles
#6 Posted : 4/2/2009 7:55:51 PM

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SWIM has had close to 100 journeys or so and has YET to have one with his eyes OPEN! i just can't imagine having ANY connections with THIS world when i take the spice's hand...WS's advice is sound Jas- get the set and setting juicy and let it take you into IT'S world..

...COMPLETELY!

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
"Rise above the illusion of time and you will have tomorrow's
wisdom today."
 
vovin
#7 Posted : 4/2/2009 10:38:09 PM

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I have tried every possible premutation of experiences I can think of. Eyes open as opposed to eyes closed is a totally diffrent experience in themselves. Also try tripping and looking at yourself in the mirror. It really blows your mind.
If you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing.
 
VisualDistortion
#8 Posted : 4/2/2009 10:51:10 PM

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SWIM starts with his eyes open and then closes them. If he doesn't he get very confused and disoriented when he breaks into hyper space.
You lock the door, and throw away the key

There's someone in my head but it's not me
 
Espiridion
#9 Posted : 4/3/2009 12:05:19 AM

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Thanks for all the responses. So I will take this as a no on eyes-open. I will try the 'no-anchors' method. I have sage but have never burned copal resin.
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I will say this. On my ceiling is a roughly 3x3 foot spot of mildew stain from a roof leak. Now understand this looks like a home maintenance issue, but I don't think I will ever change it. Except perhaps to take it with me when I move. I tell you, it has given me more joy while journeying than anything other than milkdrop on winamp. I lay back on my sofa and stare into it during lift-off and it becomes...well, everything. It has turned into 4-d pink nebulous aether and coddled me like the universal mother I never had. Beings of 'telepathic matter' have slid by and through me. I have emerged as from a dream and back into my body too many times to count. These experiences are so beautiful that I find it hard to part with the tradition. These are usually just ~20mg doses! 20mg thh slingshot also helps.

I will try it in silence and darkness. Let you all know soon.

Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. Carl Jung

 
Bill Cipher
#10 Posted : 4/3/2009 12:20:20 AM

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SWIM has done lots of both, and at a certain dosage it's possibly irrelevant (he says possibly because he's only experienced 50's and up with eyes closed), but keeping em closed definitely seems more conducive to deeper travels. He'll often put on a sleep mask, in fact, right before hitting the pipe, and lower it as he's going out to avoid the temptation of poppin' em open before he's totally back. Open eyes often trigger for him weird feelings of disassociation and confusion, make it harder to let go/surrender completely, and feels somehow vaguely abusive (like he's joyriding, maybe - taking it lightly or using in a frivolous manner). Like SWIY, SWIM is a big fan of the THH "slingshot" (nice coinage, by the way), but even with, it takes at least a good 40 for him to really bust on through.

With regard to the music issue, SWIM goes back and forth - sometimes it's blissfull, other times distracting. And the cd skips (anyone else here get em at higher doses?) just scare the living shit out of him. But there's terror in the silence too.

Such a crazy, crazy medicine...
 
Espiridion
#11 Posted : 4/3/2009 1:41:13 AM

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yes. cd skips. well, sort of. once while listening to carbon based lifeforms' 'photosynthesis' (one of my favorites) the apparent speed picked up. It freaked me out. Just that little thing. I am just unable to get that second hit in. Everything just starts quantengulfractimorphing and it is enough! Astonishment. Bliss.
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I read about uncomfortable body sensations such as ones 'mouth engulfing ones entire head' and other impossibles that occur if ones dose is close to but not quite enough to breakthrough, but this has not happened to me. I have never witnessed the mandala, either. I always understood this to be an open-eyed phenomena, but...
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I need a method to get the whole necessary dose in ONE HIT. VG? BONG? I need my hyper-cherry popped already!Embarrased
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Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. Carl Jung

 
WSaged
#12 Posted : 4/3/2009 2:55:42 AM

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jasons741 wrote:
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yes. cd skips. well, sort of. once while listening to carbon based lifeforms' 'photosynthesis' (one of my favorites) the apparent speed picked up. It freaked me out. Just that little thing. I am just unable to get that second hit in. Everything just starts quantengulfractimorphing and it is enough! Astonishment. Bliss.

Do it anyway, close your eyes while holding the hits in, helps to not see the room your in swirling away.
Plus you can watch as the fractals begin to form out of the darkness.Shocked

Quote:
I have never witnessed the mandala, either. I always understood this to be an open-eyed phenomena, but..

For me this is definitely something that forms behind my eyelids.
I don't know how one could see anything but the room distorting, with there eyes open.
I've seen my vision change between a distorted view of my room (open) & a vast cathedral (closed) with 1000's of pillars going on & on & on for as far as I could "see", instantly, as I opened & then closed my eyes slowly a few times in a row.
Very different perspective indeed!

Quote:
I need my hyper-cherry popped already

Really should try loading up 40-to-50mg, (sounds like more than you'll need though).
Smoke it until you can't see the flame to light the bowl correctly!!
There is a calm that comes over you after reaching a certain point.
1-2 hits my body races a little.
3-4 hits & I'm mellowed a bit & my body feels weightless!


Cheers!

WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ohayoco
#13 Posted : 4/3/2009 3:28:30 AM
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Good tips WS.
SWIM likes to close his eyes at first for full hyperspace, then when the visions begin to darken he opens them. At this stage, he sees wonderful standalone entities breaking into 'reality', rather than enmeshed in the closed-eye 'DMT web'.
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 
Bill Cipher
#14 Posted : 4/3/2009 3:34:54 AM

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jasons741 wrote:
I read about uncomfortable body sensations such as ones 'mouth engulfing ones entire head' and other impossibles that occur if ones dose is close to but not quite enough to breakthrough, but this has not happened to me. I have never witnessed the mandala, either. I always understood this to be an open-eyed phenomena, but...

I need a method to get the whole necessary dose in ONE HIT. VG? BONG? I need my hyper-cherry popped already!Embarrased


If SWIM is marginally underdosed, he will definitely experience the whole swallowing of his forehead deal (which is weirder than weird, but not altogether a bad thing), and he is usually MUCH more aware of his racing heartbeat (which is not in any way a good thing). At a breakthrough dose (or even something close), neither of these things seem to be a factor, but the onset is very much like something between electrocution and drowning (which is a terrifyingly awesome thing). The closed-eyed visuals (for this here SWIM) usually commence as a swirling dust storm of fractal color and energy rising upwards out of the blackness. As the carrier wave increases and the pins and needles intensify, the visuals quickly take on identifiable forms and become three-dimensional/perpetually transformative. There is often fire and scary imagery, i.e. hostile faces, fright masks, etc. at this stage (kinda like guardians at the gate), which then give way to (or integrate themselves into) the "mandala" or "chrysanthemum", which in turn gives way (if it's SWIM's lucky day) to the breakthrough.

SWIM can't pump down a breakthrough dose in one or two hits - it always takes at least three (to slug through a 40 or 50), and sometimes even four to go into the really deep waters. That's a big commitment, and SWIM can't always manage the job by himself. In the first place, the fight or flight instinct nearly always kicks in, and despite what he's told himself the minute before, once the world starts disintegrating around him he will often punk out of the full monty. Then there's the issue of how do you continue to handle a pipe and lighter that you are barely able to recognize? How do you manage to set them down without breaking (or setting fire to) something before you hit the deck?

SWIM's most consistent method of surefire breakthroughs is to smoke a pre-measured dose out of a glass bong with hash-oil bulb, his homey sitting next to him handling the jet lighter, cajoling him into getting his hits (actually holding the rig to his face if necessary), and then taking it out of his hands as he turns to fractal goo and flops back. It's a pretty fool proofed way to go, really. You can pretty much count on a big wet kiss from the 11th dimension every time. The Vaporgenie works well too and is a whole lot easier to handle alone, but it still takes this SWIM several hits to get out past the breakers.

Beyond that, you could always slam the fumarate, but you'd be a braver man than SWIM.
 
WSaged
#15 Posted : 4/3/2009 5:09:43 AM

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Uncle Knucles wrote:

The closed-eyed visuals (for this here SWIM) usually commence as a swirling dust storm of fractal color and energy rising upwards out of the blackness. As the carrier wave increases and the pins and needles intensify, the visuals quickly take on identifiable forms and become three-dimensional/perpetually transformative. There is often fire and scary imagery, i.e. hostile faces, fright masks, etc. at this stage (kinda like guardians at the gate), which then give way to (or integrate themselves into) the "mandala" or "chrysanthemum", which in turn gives way (if it's SWIM's lucky day) to the breakthrough.

I've never experienced any kind of hostile imagery or energy at all, quite the opposite in fact.
Uncle Knucles wrote:

And the cd skips (anyone else here get em at higher doses?) just scare the living shit out of him.
But there's terror in the silence too.

The skipping effect was something I got heavily from LSD, but only a little bit from DMT.

I personally love the chimey/singing/voices/flanging effects/etc... that I hear, when I get to experience DMT in absolute silence!!
(just moved to a new Apt, with a busy road right outside two of the main windowsSad !!! That is some fucking disturbing noiseMad !!!)
I sometimes hear full sentences, can't always make out every word clearly, but I definitely hear my name & other pertinent words.
Seems like someone/something trying to communicate. (As cheesy & typical as that may sound...)
That can be a bit unnerving, but I've yet to ever experience anything violent, or malevolent in any way.
Powerful, yes.
Showing off how powerful it was..., yes!!
Feeling intimidated by "it's" power, definitely!!
But evil, or ill intentions toward me, never.

Quote:

SWIM can't pump down a breakthrough dose in one or two hits - it always takes at least three (to slug through a 40 or 50), and sometimes even four to go into the really deep waters. That's a big commitment, and SWIM can't always manage the job by himself. In the first place, the fight or flight instinct nearly always kicks in, and despite what he's told himself the minute before, once the world starts disintegrating around him he will often punk out of the full monty. Then there's the issue of how do you continue to handle a pipe and lighter that you are barely able to recognize? How do you manage to set them down without breaking (or setting fire to) something before you hit the deck?

That's so funny, I do exactly the same thing!
I always tell myself, "OK, I going to take this whole dose in this time"...
Then, after around 2 hits, I'm thinking I've had enough, but I've now learned that I need to take at least one more toke at that point, to get through.
If I am able to see where the flame is in relation to the bowl, I've not smoked enough to reach that point yet.
If I'm guessing whether or not I actually had the flame anywhere near the bowl, it's time to set the pipe & lighter down & lay back.

I've had way more misfires than breakthroughs because of this exact thing.

Gotta Shoot for the sky!

WS
All posts are fictional short stories depicting the adventures of WSaged!! None of these events have actually happened and any resemblance to any real persons or incidents is totally coincidence!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Bill Cipher
#16 Posted : 4/3/2009 11:59:35 PM

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Quote:
The skipping effect was something I got heavily from LSD, but only a little bit from DMT.

I personally love the chimey/singing/voices/flanging effects/etc... that I hear, when I get to experience DMT in absolute silence!!
(just moved to a new Apt, with a busy road right outside two of the main windowsSad !!! That is some fucking disturbing noiseMad !!!)
I sometimes hear full sentences, can't always make out every word clearly, but I definitely hear my name & other pertinent words.
Seems like someone/something trying to communicate. (As cheesy & typical as that may sound...)
That can be a bit unnerving, but I've yet to ever experience anything violent, or malevolent in any way.
Powerful, yes.
Showing off how powerful it was..., yes!!
Feeling intimidated by "it's" power, definitely!!
But evil, or ill intentions toward me, never.


It's funny how there is so much that seems to be fairly universal about the experience, and so much that's so divergent. I've never gotten the skips from LSD, but with DMT... man-o-mooski.

I don't know about any of you other SWIYs, but after I don't know how many rides (probably 60-70), SWIM IS scared of the spice, as much as he's in love with it. I don't know that he ever feels evil or ill intentions - in fact a hand reached out of a hyper-nursery and caressed his face a few nights ago - but the complexity and inscrutability of it all just somehow fills him with terror.
 
smokeydaze
#17 Posted : 4/4/2009 2:14:05 AM

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warrensaged wrote:

I sometimes hear full sentences, can't always make out every word clearly, but I definitely hear my name & other pertinent words.
Seems like someone/something trying to communicate. (As cheesy & typical as that may sound...)
That can be a bit unnerving, but I've yet to ever experience anything violent, or malevolent in any way.
Powerful, yes.


Haha, I experienced this for the first time the other night! It was on rue and smoked magic, I was sitting there towards the middle/end and started to hear someone talking. It sounded like it was in the echoing distance but when it started I didn't take notice of it cause I thought it was just someone outside talking and just thought it sounded distorted because I was tripping. So after 15 seconds of listening to it I was like.. wait a minute.. wtf !! thats not someone at all. They kept saying the same thing over and over for the most part, kept talking about me and my mate and how we were going for a road trip the next day - literally saying "ye him and his mate going to blah blah" over and over with different words or phrases every now and then. After listening in amazement at the clarity and realness of it all the voice started to dissolve into gibberish until it stopped completely after about 2min. It was very cool! Smile

That was with my eyes open as well, which is the way I do it all the time. Though, after reading a few peoples thoughts I think its time try closed eyes again as the last time this was done it was definitely overwhelming amazing! Sometimes I find eyes open to be too messy towards the end of the peek when you just start to come back but still have no idea whats going on, couple of days ago this happen to me and I was by myself and still had the bong in my hand. My attention was forced to this THING I was holding. This has happened to me before and I hate it, imagine coming back to reality and holding something and not knowing how you picked it up or what it is. I kept looking at it going what. the. fuck. is. this. Kept changing my grip on it trying to see it from a different angle, but your movements are quiet mechanical/robotic which just makes it even weirder cause you know its really important you dont drop this thing so you focus on not doing that while in a very alternated state. So as I would change my grip it would continue onto itself, this shape, contorting and moving - it was like I was holding a fractal. So ye, eyes open can be very distracting..

SMOKE MORE DMT, SMOKE MORE DMT NOW
 
SoCal
#18 Posted : 4/4/2009 6:14:47 AM

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a little bit off topic, but has anyone ever had the feeling when coming back down of...and I'm really not sure how to explain this...but of coming back into reality, but you may see something or hear a note in a song and it's almost as if all the pieces of your existence are rapidly falling back into place and everything is exactly as its supposed to be?

Damn, I'm not really explaining this well...

It's like a feeling that universe is almost teasing you, and you may laugh out loud in the moment, because it's almost as if you already knew these little events were going to happen. Everything is felt as it is meant to be and is perfect. this could be just a few notes in a song or a flicker of a candle, but in the moment they are so very meaningful.

If I can think of a better way to articulate the phenomenon that I'm trying to explain I will for sure clarify, because as it stands I'm having a very difficult time putting it into words. someone was telling me about this once...
 
idtravlr
#19 Posted : 4/4/2009 8:04:09 AM

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SoCal wrote:
a little bit off topic, but has anyone ever had the feeling when coming back down of...and I'm really not sure how to explain this...but of coming back into reality, but you may see something or hear a note in a song and it's almost as if all the pieces of your existence are rapidly falling back into place and everything is exactly as its supposed to be?

Damn, I'm not really explaining this well...

It's like a feeling that universe is almost teasing you, and you may laugh out loud in the moment, because it's almost as if you already knew these little events were going to happen. Everything is felt as it is meant to be and is perfect. this could be just a few notes in a song or a flicker of a candle, but in the moment they are so very meaningful.

If I can think of a better way to articulate the phenomenon that I'm trying to explain I will for sure clarify, because as it stands I'm having a very difficult time putting it into words. someone was telling me about this once...


Yep, off topic for sure, but yep, I know exactly what you mean (I think) I don't know how to explain it either other than it's like an extreme sense of deja vu, or psychic foresight of some sort. I don't know how to explain it either, but I think I know exactly what you're talking about. You know it's coming, and when it happens you're not the least bit surprised because you knew it was coming, but at the same time you're blown away that you knew it was coming and it actually came! Clear as mud? Laughing
I am not a drug addict seeking escape from reality. I am an explorer of consciousness challenging consensus reality.

…is DMT dangerous? The answer is only if you fear death by astonishment… [crowd laughter]… Remember how you laughed when this possibility was raised… a moment will come that will wipe the smile right off your face.
-Terence McKenna
 
idtravlr
#20 Posted : 4/4/2009 8:26:54 AM

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jasons741 wrote:
.
.
I am not sure I have broken through yet. Most of my experiences are with open eyes. I have had the world in front of me become utterly unrecognizable, objects losing their depth completely, faces of every type in every static pattern around, everything is most certainly a dream and when I begin to come back my body feels...well...like my body. The first deep trip resulted in some strange convulsions and I have since gotten control of them with each consecutive trip. When I see the term breakthrough, I wonder if they are all cev or some oev. Can the forum please elucidate for me?

Thanks,
J.
.


Okay jasons741. I'm about to go against the grain of what most all of the replies have been, but I personally am a huge fan of open eye rides into hyperspace, and without a doubt open eyed breakthroughs. I actually make a point, when I'm going really, really big to try and keep my eyes open. My absolute best breakthroughs have been with my eyes open. The world around me has completely transformed into a circus of beings, in full multi-dimensional spectrum dancing and playing about the world around me. The room I'm sitting in no longer exists in any way shape or form, rather I transform into some alternate dimension, my physical body no longer exists, nothing that I would ever know as the reality I was previously existing in exists, but with eyes fully open. The "other side" comes to me with my eyes open, rather me going to it. Does that make sense? I know it sounds crazy... I honestly believe that if one has not gone deep enough to bring hyperspace into the world around them (eye's open) then one is really missing out on some incredible magic. When you're in hyperspace it shouldn't matter what your physical body is doing... Your mind and soul is there... your body and the reality surrounding you is left behind.

Once I start to come down and I drift back into the world that I recognize as somewhat normal reality I typically find myself closing my eyes and then journeying into the cev hyperspace. Long story short, I think open eyed rides can be some of the most spectacular experiences you can ever have. But we are all different and that may not work for everyone.
I am not a drug addict seeking escape from reality. I am an explorer of consciousness challenging consensus reality.

…is DMT dangerous? The answer is only if you fear death by astonishment… [crowd laughter]… Remember how you laughed when this possibility was raised… a moment will come that will wipe the smile right off your face.
-Terence McKenna
 
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