It would be fascinating to get some data on how much our pre-programmed minds affect the visuals we see.

Rick Strausmann himself would be so inspired by thisShall we start lobotomizing?
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From my work and why i consider myself a form of atheist is because what I've seen and been shown with DMT. That the things, if real, that people call God or Gods are just Highly highly evolved beings that in their history did at one time exist in a reality similar or possibly ours. The 3rd dimension. We call them God because we don't know what else to or even how to comprehend them. Just as if we were able to go back 15,000 years and visit humankind with an I-pad, we would most likely be considered a God out of sheer lack of words and in ability to comprehend such a tool. Now immagine if our species made it 1 million years into eveloving. I feel at some point shedding the material being would be the next step. Much as a fin became a leg, became a ambidexious appendage, perhaps our bodies would evelove as useless and we evolve to pure consciousness. Perhaps it isnt just death or dmt that would bring us to this place. This place we go to.

I Too Debated this subject to myself i agree fully and also made the conclusion that the higlhy evolved beings were too like us to an extent also having to move through materialistic hang ups various weaknesses and have been allowed to with shedding of this dimensions restraints with ascenscion/and or death throughout existence,and also i think we are a very young race old as we may seem but in comparison to these beings and instead of worshipping or living in fear of them we should rather aspire to develop like them instead of trying to please them because i think they are to such extent where ego left them and flattery escapes them on their evololutionary state,basicly they are of little need of our worship(do correct me if im wrong since this is mostly speculation)

We are better off as a race putting that time into our development as we would be trying to please that which we cant comprehend

this topic got alot of fun thanks contributors

Ok So ive listened to the tibetan book of the dead on audiobook lol.. i think it explains alot. or more than christianity beliefs... the dicriptions of the different bardos certainly sound like something from a HyperSpice Hit... i will continue to research...moving house so gone for a week or to.... but then "i'll be back"... ahhh good ole arnie!!!

Not that evolution has a goal nor is a conscious process, but I will words things in a manner that sounds as if it does for simplicity sake. If their was a goal of evolution of organisms it would be survival. Just as amphibians evolved armored shells to protect the fragile mortal body helps ensure its survival. So what would be the ultimate adaptation for an organism achieve to protect its vulnerable material body?....Not having one.

I agree with the above fully. Well said mate. Ill also add that this physical reality has a fail safe built in to it to ensure any species, no matter how developed, must be ethical and sustainable. Its the speed of light.

Even if we could travel at the speed of light, which is in theory impossible for a particle that has mass, it would still take hundreds of thousands, millions and even billions of light years to travel the universe. All this just to transport a sack of meat and water. Its not our bodies that need to be there its our minds or conscious expereince. If we shed these bodies and exist as only consciousness in a higher dimension we would be able to travel through all of reality freely and possibly into different, what some would call relms, or other universes if they existed. So for unlimited travel to be possible in any reasonable time frame, shedding the material body would be the only way unless worm holes are possible. Lets just say for arguments sake that we cant travel through wormholes or at least can not with a physical body.

So for a species to evolve advanced enough to the point of shedding the material body it MUST be in harmony and sustainable. Look at how in the last 100 years how close we have come to to global annihilation or if the planets history how many times life has been sterilized by a giant impact because until recent times we had no way to detect or prevent such disaster. The close calls of nuclear global destruction and now rapid climate changing from pollution and that's just in the past 150 or so years. Our morals, priorities and care of our home planet have been despicable. We don't have sustainable goals, ext, ext. For a species to make it, say 1 million years further than us, which in a 14 billion year old universe is a drop in the bucket, such a species would have to have these things in check.

In short, an advanced species such as the ones seen on breakthroughs, if real, must have there shit together in those ways long enough to highly evolve therefor the speed of light protects the inhabitants of the universe from any one species trying to dominate or build an empire by taking advantage or destroying lesser beings.

Its been shown to me that the speed of light acts as a universal fail safe protecting us from each other.

Next up...the multi verse's.

I would just add that they are us. They are our progenitors if you will. We must deal with the physical world first, just like they had to way back when. We're fortunate to have guidance. I wonder if they did.

So if they are us, are you implying time travel or that we exist in multiple forms?
Fun thread.

Fun thread indeed.

My 2c are that we can already shed our bodies. I am able to astral project and lucid dream with facility, and it is a piece of cake for me to get out of this meat sack and roam free in the multiverses and their infinite dimensions and iterations. So, Olympus, I don't know how moral or ethical we need to be... I am a good person and all, but it is mostly just practice.

As for life after death... I think the whole "are we even really alive?" thing is important to wrestle with. There is not a single shred of evidence that we are not dreaming at this very moment.

On the gods/entities being an advanced species... well, duh. My feeling is that believing this does not make one atheistic though. Most religious traditions recognize that their gods are aliens. The Sumerians, The Incas, most Native Americans and Africans are rather explicit about this. They call them things like sky beings, Annunaki (those who from heaven to earth came) etc. The Sumerians even describe the planet they come from and the rockets they travel with. The Vedas seem clear that their gods and demons are ETs as well, flying around in Vimanas. Even the ol' Bible makes it clear that Angels and such are ETs. After all, if you were created before the Earth... you are extra-terrestrial by definition.

And, of course, beings that live in Hyperspace or other higher dimensional realms... are not from Earth.

Just because your spiritual worldview seems sci-fi, that does not make you an atheist. I think most atheists are merely antireligionists, and have very definite theistic conceptions. Simply believing that the Universe is type of cosmic machine with laws and mechanisms set in place is itself a type of theism known as clockwork deism.

ANYWAY.

Where do we go when our meat and water sacks give up the ghost?

I think that depends a lot on how much you have developed your consciousness beforehand. I don't think that everyone has the same experience. I am fairly sure that people who have well developed astral bodies and energetic fields can maintain this structure and fly off to wherever they like as "ascended beings" at death... or before. (read about Yogis who choose to "die" by meditating themselves into their next world) At the other extreme, I think poorly developed and unintegrated peeps who are unhappy with their "vehicle" can simply subsume back into the cosmos and start over. I guess there are lots of things in between as well.

I could probably go on and on about any of these topics for many volumes of thick books... but this about sums up what I have to say I suppose.

Questions- Do you feel you can astral project to anywhere in the universe? As in see it, observe it in real time in our reality. I understand people through astral projection claim to go here and there but are they actually going to say, m-51's outer spiral arm, to a specific star? Do you feel you can do this?

Although I grew and studied quite a bit more after the last back and forth we had I don't feel the need to repeat that again. I no longer debate this subject but do like to discuss ideas and thoughts.
I understand fully as you have expressed in past threads that you disagree with most of my ideas and beliefs as well as don't have any respect for the efforts I've done in seeking to find my own truth, but I did learn and re think many beliefs and thoughts since that thread. Some ideas I changed others I re-enforced with more knowledge. Finding my way is a work in progress and I don't claim to actually know anything down to a core level of understanding. So although not your intentions I do want to say thank you for challenging me to learn and grow moar.

To answer your probably rhetorical last question I quoted. You don't go anywhere nor give up the ghost. You are the ghost , just no longer embodied.

There is also not a shred of evidence that we are not, and I will use the word loosely, God having a dream, and some could say slowly waking up becoming aware of self vs. the dream.

Solipsism must be put aside for the most part and we must agree that people share the same reality to make progress in different topics of study. Otherwise we would all just be sittng here feeling its pointless to try to progress our understanding of the universe and everything it contains.

Indeed there is no way to prove anything exists but we wont get much accomplished if that belief cant be set aside at times.

Perhaps you misunderstand me. I have IMMENSE respect for the efforts you have done and don't disagree with you nearly as much as you might think. I think everything you said sounds plausible and intelligent. I only have my own experiences and conjectures which differ from yours or other people's.

I didn't mean to sound snide or dismissive... I was being more cheeky in tone.

As to answer your question, I do believe it is possible. I don't believe that it is easily proven, though. Even astral projection in my bedroom is fraught with difficulties in ascertaining if I did, in fact manage to leave my body in THIS reality... or perhaps have entered some alternate reality which closely resembles this one... or perhaps fell into sleep and manifested a lucid-ish dream which mimics me projecting.

If I can barely navigate this in a space which I know well... it seems rather daunting to do so for Galaxy M51 or whatever.

However, for the purposes of pure visceral experience... it tends not to matter. Flying through the center of a blue dwarf and encountering plasma beings there is exhilarating whatever level or "reality" it might have. Considering that I don't use waking material life as my metric of reality anyway... it matters even less to me.

I am of the opinion that the material universe and most of the others as well are illusions. Something more akin to dreams than to physical events. I believe that the fundamental ground of being is mind, and that all phenomena take place therein. We, and everything else are simple thoughts taken form. A mind that can think sentient minds which can themselves create... "created in the image" etc.

Anyway... nice to chat with you about this stuff. My worldview is still open enough to incorporate new ideas as well. It is a pretty flexible understanding as it is.

Peace to you my friend
HF

Its the architecture of life

I resonate strongly with your ideas quoted above. One of the early things shown to me in the beginning days of working with our beloved molecule was exactly that. I remember coming back and mumbling "we are thought, all we are are thoughts". It was shown to me we certainly are not these bodies, nor even spirits. we are thoughts. Its hard to put into words and you did a better job expressing these notions as Im doing.

Not so long ago I broke down to a friend how I feel empty inside. I felt like my spirituality was gone and in a way taken from me in the forest. I havent written much about this nor discussed it in any detail with friends but It hurt. I was shown that my spitual beliefs were self serving because they felt good or an author I respected said so. I saw that I didn't question things enough before accepting them simply because it felt good or was fun. I felt like a grown up playing make believe and had my inner world blown apart.
Luckily the person I broke down to has such beauty and wisdom and helped me see what I couldn't. That loosing my spirituality wasnt a bad thing. I was on the wrong path and needed to be stripped down to bareness in order to find a truer more meaningful way of being. This is the path I am on now. Now, with a better understanding and humility I am re building this part of me from the ground up. I had to swing the polar opposite of temporarily being overly skeptical as the pendulum swung to the opposite end of the spectrum in order to find my own middle ground.

I still don't' know what I believe and what I don't but this to me is an exciting time. By maturing and learning with a new skill set I am finally free to find my own truth. I don't seek out a guru or teacher. I look within and for the first time much clearer and deeper.

Sorry to not stay on topic but i feel i needed to write these words for me. To help me remember where I am. Im right where Im suppose to be.
Cheers big ears,
Om

This topic seems to come up here often. Of course, no one really knows the answer to this, however musing on it has value in my opinion. I seem to lean towards the idea of there really being no self that lives or dies, just a temporary manifestation of that which 'is'.

I remember of all things, one of the classic vampire novels where the protagonist described eternal life not as eternal youth but eternal age. How awful it would be to be the same incarnation forever, all novelty being drained from you. I don't think that awareness ever disappears, just changes addresses. How boring would it be to be the YOU forever?

I also like the idea that gibran2 posted in this thread. There is nowhere to go from 'this'. No life, no death, just morphing manifestations of that which is and always has been.

Great read folks thanks, love reading peoples theorys on such things.

Both of you have said it well.
My spirituality was also stripped at one point...it took many years to fully complete. I was raised southern baptist...makes me shudder inside..

Anyway it was replaced and is now largely replaced by this:

Believe Nothing
Allow Anything.
Question Everything

Believe Nothing: Hold no believe so tightly that you won't change it in the face of counter evidence.

Allow Anything: Don't rule out a possibility until you are certain it's not a possibility. God could very well be a purple unicorn though in the realm of possibilities I rank this one pretty low.

Question Everything: do not add a single new belief to your current set of beliefs without questioning it against your own inner reason and experience..and alway's check to be sure you are not overriding point 2.

I do tend to gravitate more towards a Buddhist view these day's, but I only gravitate towards the parts that pass my inner voice of reason. I do not worship buddha statues as though they are Gods....that's just silly IMHO. It's actually not really Buddhism though. It's just that the most has been written about these states of mind in the Buddhist scriptures. however, I also see the parallels in MANY esoteric religions around the world. Gnostics, Sufism, Kaballah, Yoga, etc. They are all pointing to something ineffable IMHO.

For me it's like this. The universe is teaming with motion...I call it life. Honestly I have found the scientific definition of life too limiting for cosmic proportions. I define life as that with is in continuous change. Aka...the universe is alive. I am a part of that.

I also jive very strongly with the concept of we really only exist as thoughts. But then when I sit and observe thoughts I have to arrive at the conclusion that thoughts are not really us either. They come and they go all own their own. I just simply don't see an everlasting part of myself. There could be one, but I haven't been able to observe any part of myself that would be everlasting...unless of course you want to talk about the continuously changing mind stream...

Yeah. Deep conversation. Anyone treading without humility is almost certain to fall into wrong view.
Even Buddha was adamant about not clinging to views. Far better to be open and humble with regards to it all.


Peace

This is often said. I wonder though...does it have to be true?

One of my most powerful visions was when I was shown that evolution was in fact directed to the awareness that all is He/She/It/God. What I observed in this vision was that evolution only had one purpose at all. To achieve greater and greater levels of awareness until eventually it becomes aware of what it is...we, some of us, I believe have crossed that threshhold already. I for one am aware that I am the universe looking at itself. I'm also aware that you are all parts of the universe looking back at me. We are one...

Don't get me wrong I do appreciate the survival of the fittest view as well...but if we all step back and are completely honest... Survival of the fittest is just a model of evolution. You could just as easily point out that more advanced forms are also more aware...and could thus use awareness as a fitness score for evolution as well.

just something to consider. I know what the science books say...and no doubt evolution has and continuous to happen...but we do not in fact know why it happens. Maybe survival of the fittest...maybe directed evolution of consciousness.

Peace

Good point joe...I've often thought about this as well

Its also interesting to note that in recent years, as we've accumulated a lot more information on just how permeated nature is by symbiotic/mutually beneficial relationships, many have noted that it would be more accurate to term it survival of the most cooperative, instead of survival of the fittest. Some have made an interesting case that even the mitochondria present in our cells started off as separate bacteria that eventually engaged in a symbiotic union with our ancestors wayyy back when...the majority of trees have symbiotic relationships with fungi.. and so on. Its all over the place, its just hard to spot for several reasons. But its amazing that the better nature gets along with itself, the more it thrives in the dance of life

with that in mind, it makes me wonder more seriously about Terence's tongue in cheek response to the question Whats the goal of evolution?.."A good party" That remark seemed rather profound to me when taken in the context of this, and all of us who've had these experiences of a kind of joyous and orgasmic cosmic oneness/consciousness. If that was not any sort of evolutionary "goal" or distinct stage in the first place, then perhaps we would make it so. On a more out there note; I've also had several instances where in the span of a few seconds 'idea-complex downloads' occurred that seemed like a glimpse at some unimaginably complex and beautiful eternal hyperspace humanity, where the vibe was that of a cosmic bash in the world of the imagination

Nice thoughts on the matter joedirt.

I should probably add that we are not OUR thoughts IMO, but rather everything (including us) is the product of the Omniverse thinking. We can sit down and imagine things and then go and manifest them, or more directly we can dream entire locations filled with seemingly independent people into being... we do it every night.

Considering the much larger mind of the Earth, and the vastly larger mind of the Solar System... the Galaxy, the Universe and so on... it boggles the mind to imagine what such minds are capable of dreaming. But I believe that we are some portion of that epic dreaming.

I also feel that causation in the dream sense flows down from the higher dimensions... such that our physical world is caused or influenced by 5th dimensional happenings and that place is in turn a manifestation out of the 6th and so on.

Words don't really capture it, but I think you guys follow my drift.

wow the evololutions even showing itself in the thread

I espescially like the thoughts conclusion,how it makes sense to me is it seems to be symbiotic to the dimension it finds itself into,integrates,adapts and finally expands(consciousness)and as with the case our bodies acts as vehicles so we can actively experience the dimension else it would just have us be the observer,and thus our movs towards its goal by expanding by extracting as much info on where it integrates itself,leaving one with more questions is dying actually death then or just the same principle as a snake shedding its skin and the other are we actually down to our core human beings or even a species(is anything a species at all)but olympus you have shed light on the last aswell as Hyperspace fool

As for this reality i wouldnt completly discard it since i believe there is validity to it to a certian extent its just been distorted and pointed out in the wrong directions by society and its big time players,look past that and you have something pretty real like some things that just cant be denied(DNA,Strands,Chakras)and then theres those unexplainable phenomenon like people dying young or even at birth qould discard the theory of death being an evolutionary process since that organism didnt have accumalated enough to exist as evolved,I have found in readings and from some pretty wacky conversations that live a multitude of lives before your soul\consciousness\spirit whatever it is we really are at the base of our existence
finally completes to its ascension stage(reincarnation basicly)

Astral projection and death parralels remains a mystery to me though ihonestly cant say or evem grasp how the two might be different i nexperience where the only i would say is the one your able to come back eventually,i can only say thoough that it might be a hidden ability we have like training wheels that silver chord away from the real deal.

i might contradict something i have stated before but i have been immensly enlightened from reading through every opinion so far,some doors open others close but never locked

Much Fun all the best nexians