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ACRB powder 50g extraction using 'Cyb's Hybrid Salt Tek' results w/detailed instructions Options
 
Bigsuccabusta
#1 Posted : 4/5/2013 1:26:42 PM

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This was done using 50g of Acacia Confusa Root Bark Powder following Cyb's Hybrid Salt tek which can be found here:
Cyb's Hybrid Salt Tek

1st Extraction
This was swim's first attempt to try this and a few mistakes were made as expected. Swim messed up and didn't add the salt mixture because she added the salt too quickly and the water evaporated before the salt could dissolve. So she skipped that step. She later tried to add the salt mixture after having done 4 pulls already, but the results of the 5th & 6th pull were bad. There were white crystals in the naphtha but they never settled and couldn't be separated.

Procedure:


Here's the 1st and 2nd pull,


Combined they were about 300 milligrams. There was kind of a duey residue layer on the containers. When scraped up the residue layer turned a brownish/maple syrup color. The razor blades were put in the freezer and the goo layer hardened, making it easier to get off the razor blades. Apparently from what swim has read the syrupy layer is very heavy crystals, when smoking they were extremely potent.


The 3rd and 4th pull were combined into the same container, two hours apart. This was a bad idea, very low yield from these two pulls.

2nd Extraction
here's the procedure followed


1st Pull


2nd Pull


3rd Pull


So from the first attempt swim got .3 grams, and .45 grams from the second extraction so far. On the second attempt when swim included the salt mixture there was a lot less goo. Swim intends to do a couple more pulls on the second extraction and then recrystalize all of it. Swim is planning on trying a defat on the next attempt.

How else can this process be improved? I know other people are getting as much as 2%(1g) using this same tek w/Mimosa Hostillis. Is reheating the bath right at the end of each pull the best way to do it or would it be better to let the temp drop further before reheating?
 

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cyb
#2 Posted : 4/5/2013 1:32:35 PM

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Hiya

You say...
Quote:
she added the salt too quickly and the water evaporated before the salt could dissolve


I don't quite understand this...
The Salt is just added to a small bit of hot water to dissolve it more readily than cold water, then it is added to the mix, as a saline solution.

As for heating...the idea is to have the mixture 'Warm' (not hot) throughout...
An alternative method would be to let the mix return to room temp...then add hot Naphtha for the pull...this should ensure a greater saturation.

Also, all bark is different in quality...some just might be low in alkaloids...its kinda hit and miss...

Thanks for the detailed report though...
Very useful
Smile
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Psilosomniac
#3 Posted : 4/6/2013 2:56:44 AM

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Are you letting the later pulls evaporate to increase saturation before freezing? This should help increase the concentration and help the crystals crash out.


Nice spreadsheets, by the way! I really appreciate how meticulous you're being about this process Thumbs up
 
ntwhtyouknw
#4 Posted : 4/6/2013 6:41:13 AM

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Is it whole root bark or inner root bark?
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100thApe
#5 Posted : 4/6/2013 12:22:05 PM

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Hm. I tried cybs hyb salt tek to the mL with mimosa and got a happy 2.1% yield. Smile ..Dont know anything about Acacia however.

Best of luck!!
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Bigsuccabusta
#6 Posted : 4/7/2013 1:27:07 AM

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Hey thanks for the feedback everyone,

Cyb,
Quote:
I don't quite understand this...
The Salt is just added to a small bit of hot water to dissolve it, then it is added to the mix, as a saline solution.

Swim got this right on the second extraction, on the first extraction she added the salt all at once, and had the water at boiling. The water boiled away before the salt had dissolved and was left with a pot of salt. But, she figured out how to do it right on the second extract.

Quote:
As for heating...the idea is to have the mixture 'Warm' (not hot) throughout...
An alternative method would be to let the mix return to room temp...then add hot Naphtha for the pull...this should ensure a greater saturation.

Thanks Swim will try this on the next extraction. Swim is about to do the 4th and 5th pull now, she'll post results.

Psilosomniac,
Quote:
Are you letting the later pulls evaporate to increase saturation before freezing? This should help increase the concentration and help the crystals crash out.

No, swim did not do this. Thanks for your pointing this out! Swim is reading the FAQ about this now, she will definitely do this in the future.

ntwhtyouknw
Quote:
Is it whole root bark or inner root bark?

All the description says is "whole trunk bark", and it's already powdered. Other customers using this vendor have posted they've had good yields but aren't specific as to what they are exactly.

Swim is also thinking she didn't shake the solution after adding the acidic solution enough. The first time she completely forgot to shake it, the second time she only shook once. She is about to do the 4th and 5th pull from the second extraction, in the next few days she'll try a new extraction using the tips everyone has given and post results.
 
Psilosomniac
#7 Posted : 4/7/2013 5:01:54 AM

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Bigsuccabusta wrote:
Hey thanks for the feedback everyone,
Swim is also thinking she didn't shake the solution after adding the acidic solution enough. The first time she completely forgot to shake it, the second time she only shook once. She is about to do the 4th and 5th pull from the second extraction, in the next few days she'll try a new extraction using the tips everyone has given and post results.


The solution should be shaken every so often for a period of several hours before being basified for best results, if I understand properly. I put mine in a heat bath for a few hours, shaking every few minutes while I was doing other things, then I left it to sit at room temperature overnight, and shook it some more in a heat bath for an hour or so the next day. This step can be done as long as you're willing to wait, from a few hours to several days.

Also, I wanted to clarify about the pulls. You aren't shaking the solution with the nonpolar solvent in it, are you? Because you should be gently rolling the extraction vessel around to avoid emulsions, which will complicate the separation.

Best of luck!
 
Bigsuccabusta
#8 Posted : 4/8/2013 4:57:37 AM

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Quote:
The solution should be shaken every so often for a period of several hours before being basified for best results, if I understand properly. I put mine in a heat bath for a few hours, shaking every few minutes while I was doing other things, then I left it to sit at room temperature overnight, and shook it some more in a heat bath for an hour or so the next day. This step can be done as long as you're willing to wait, from a few hours to several days.

Yea that makes a lot of sense to do leave it in the acidic solution longer and shake it a lot more, Swim is going to try that now actually. Most of the other A/B teks seem to spend a lot more time on the acidic bath step.

Quote:
Also, I wanted to clarify about the pulls. You aren't shaking the solution with the nonpolar solvent in it, are you? Because you should be gently rolling the extraction vessel around to avoid emulsions, which will complicate the separation.

Yes, swim shakes the bottle very hard in a figure 8 motion for 30 seconds, unscrews the cap to release pressure, shakes another 30 seconds, unscrews the cap again, then shakes one more time before returning it to the bath. Swim has tried a different tek which involved shaking during a defat step and she got really bad emulsions which took a week to settle, but using this tek swim has never gotten any emulsions.

Swim also did the 4th and 5th pulls from the 2nd extraction, warming the naphtha before adding to the solution, and also evaporating after before freezing.

The 4th pull was looking good, swim placed it directly underneath a fan for 2 hours without checking it and it completely evaporated Crying or very sad

The 5th pull swim aimed the fan so it wasn't aiming directly at the naphtha, after about 2 hours the naphtha had evaporated to about half its original volume, and it had a milky-look to it as opposed to the clear-yellow look. That's in the freezer now, will post results when finished.
 
acacian
#9 Posted : 4/8/2013 5:07:40 AM

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if you mean that it completely evaporated with nothing there in that there is no crystals to show for it, don't assume you dont have anything. I got the same with my confusa extrction.. i got a completely clear sticky film on the bottom.. which was the goods. confusa often doesn't crystalise straight away as there is a large amount of nmt in there
 
Psilosomniac
#10 Posted : 4/8/2013 6:06:46 AM

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Bigsuccabusta wrote:

Yes, swim shakes the bottle very hard in a figure 8 motion for 30 seconds, unscrews the cap to release pressure, shakes another 30 seconds, unscrews the cap again, then shakes one more time before returning it to the bath. Swim has tried a different tek which involved shaking during a defat step and she got really bad emulsions which took a week to settle, but using this tek swim has never gotten any emulsions.


I would be more gentle with it when you roll it in the figure 8 motion. No need to shake it up so hard.


acacian is right about the evaporation. You might have a thin layer of goop on the bottom that can be scraped up and used.

I've found that redissolving this goo in isopropyl alcohol and allowing it to evaporate completely ends up with crystallization, even though it didn't crystallize with the naphtha. Not too sure why, though.
 
Bigsuccabusta
#11 Posted : 4/9/2013 6:43:02 PM

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Quote:
if you mean that it completely evaporated with nothing there in that there is no crystals to show for it, don't assume you dont have anything. I got the same with my confusa extrction.. i got a completely clear sticky film on the bottom.. which was the goods. confusa often doesn't crystalise straight away as there is a large amount of nmt in there

Yes there was a thin layer of goop stuff on the bottom after it had mostly evaporated, when swim did the 5th pull, she put the 5th pull in the same dish with the goop. After it froze swim scraped up maybe 100 milligrams of mostly goo w/some yellow crystals.

5th and 6th pull yielded .15g combined, bringing the total from the second extraction to .6g(1.2%)

Psilosomniac,
thanks for that tip on letting on the acidic mix sit for one day. Swim mixed the solution every 5-10 mins for three hours, reheating the bath twice, then let it sit for 20 hours at room temperature.
When reheating it and shaking after the 20 hours, swim noticed that when the layers separated(the acid layer from the rootbark layer) after shaking, the top acid layer was barely distinguishable from the bottom layer. Whereas before leaving it to sit for the 20 hours, the top layer was clear and easily distinguishable.

3rd extraction on the way Smile
 
Bigsuccabusta
#12 Posted : 4/11/2013 7:25:43 AM

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3rd Extraction
After taking everyone's input on how to improve the procedure, swim decided to do the 3rd extraction using 100g of root bark in two different bottles(50g in each) & combining the corresponding pulls in the same dish.

Procedure


1st pull (680mg)


Close of up some of the goo, the dark layer that runs through the center of the picture wasn't dark, it was clear, and it did not come off when scraped with a razor blade


Swim hadn't seen any crystals this small in any other extractions


2nd pull (460mg)


3rd pull (160mg)


4th pull (80mg)


very pretty to look at


5th pull (70mg)


6th pull (50mg)


 
Borg
#13 Posted : 4/11/2013 8:17:17 AM
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Very interesting & detailed information! Thanks for sharing!
 
kyuss
#14 Posted : 4/11/2013 1:03:41 PM
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that is very exact. thanks for sharing..
what program do you use for taking notes?

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Bigsuccabusta
#15 Posted : 4/12/2013 6:20:07 AM

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Quote:
that is very exact. thanks for sharing..
what program do you use for taking notes?


Excel & Word mostly. Snagit is also a really useful print screen application that swim uses a lot, you can store as many screen captures as you want & edit them all easily without having to switch between a bunch of windows. You can also do a print screen where there is a scroll bar and it automatically scrolls and captures the whole image.

Swim just updated her previous post to include the 3rd & 4th pulls, bringing total for the 3rd extraction to 1.38g so far.

Quote:
I've found that redissolving this goo in isopropyl alcohol and allowing it to evaporate completely ends up with crystallization, even though it didn't crystallize with the naphtha. Not too sure why, though.

after doing some reading; isopropyl alcohol dissolves certain nonpolar compounds & "It will dissolve ethyl cellulose, polyvinyl butyral, many oils, alkaloids, gums and natural resins".
So it's probably just destroying the impurities in the goo and leaving you with the same amount of dmt, but without the mess of impurities that don't dissolve in naphtha. Swim could definitely be wrong about that, swim is not a chemist. Swim also read that Isopropyl dissolves very fast and leaves no residues so she is considering giving it a try. How long has it taken for you to completely evaporate & what percentage of the original extraction did you recover after recrystalizing?

For others who have experience using A. Confusa, is it normal for each pull to be so different in terms of how the crystals precipitate?
Swim doesn't understand why even though she is doing almost identical processes each time, every pull is completely different;
pull 1 is small white crystals,
pull 2 is medium sized yellow crystals,
pull 3 is tiny yellow crystals with lots of goo,
and pull 4 is giant fluffy white crystals with no goo.

**Cyb, I would like to apologize for posting bad information about your tek in this thread:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=42401
I just reread it and edited the post.
 
Psilosomniac
#16 Posted : 4/13/2013 5:07:43 AM

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Bigsuccabusta wrote:
Quote:
I've found that redissolving this goo in isopropyl alcohol and allowing it to evaporate completely ends up with crystallization, even though it didn't crystallize with the naphtha. Not too sure why, though.

after doing some reading; isopropyl alcohol dissolves certain nonpolar compounds & "It will dissolve ethyl cellulose, polyvinyl butyral, many oils, alkaloids, gums and natural resins".
So it's probably just destroying the impurities in the goo and leaving you with the same amount of dmt, but without the mess of impurities that don't dissolve in naphtha. Swim could definitely be wrong about that, swim is not a chemist. Swim also read that Isopropyl dissolves very fast and leaves no residues so she is considering giving it a try. How long has it taken for you to completely evaporate & what percentage of the original extraction did you recover after recrystalizing?


That is certainly a possible explanation. It might be worthwhile to try dissolving in IPA, evaporating, then redissolving the crystals in naphtha and seeing if the reform after the naphtha evaporates.

I'm not sure about the difference in weight. What happened was I was getting goo stuck to the bottom of my little mason jars that was difficult to get out, so I added warm IPA and allowed it to evaporate. I only used as much IPA as it would take to cover the entire bottom (they bulge slightly up at the bottom, if that makes sense). I left them in a well ventilated room with a fan for a couple nights, and sure enough, crystals formed. They were fairly goopy crystals, but crystals nonetheless.

Hope this helps.
 
cyb
#17 Posted : 4/13/2013 7:48:41 AM

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Bigsuccabusta wrote:
**Cyb, I would like to apologize for posting bad information about your tek in this thread

Thank you for the correction.
I do understand how confusing it can get when you first start extracting...
Glad you had some success Smile
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ebaldachi
#18 Posted : 4/15/2013 10:41:43 PM
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When doing these pulls are they being evaporated in seperate pyrex pans or all in one and also are u draining the excess naptha once tje crystals have formed ?
 
Bigsuccabusta
#19 Posted : 4/23/2013 1:01:13 PM

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3rd Extraction is updated, total yield was 1.5g. Swim also did another extraction doing essentially all the same steps followed in the 3rd extraction, except the acid/rootbark solution sat for 5 days instead of 1, and total yield was 1.72g(1.72%) which is her new high score.


ebaldachi,
Quote:
When doing these pulls are they being evaporated in seperate pyrex pans or all in one and also are u draining the excess naptha once tje crystals have formed ?


They are evaporated in separate dishes, and yes to draining the naphtha after the crystals have formed. You can reuse this naphtha that your left with, from what I understand you can reuse it for pulling many times, but when recrystallizing its better to use fresh naptha and not recycled.

Psilosomniac,
Quote:
I'm not sure about the difference in weight. What happened was I was getting goo stuck to the bottom of my little mason jars that was difficult to get out, so I added warm IPA and allowed it to evaporate. I only used as much IPA as it would take to cover the entire bottom (they bulge slightly up at the bottom, if that makes sense). I left them in a well ventilated room with a fan for a couple nights, and sure enough, crystals formed. They were fairly goopy crystals, but crystals nonetheless.

When I read your other posts about this a while ago I didn't quite understand what you were talking about with the alcohol because I hadn't made it to the recrystalization stage yet. Now I understand what it is your evaporating, at first I thought you meant evaporate all the spice in the IPA, now I see that your just dissolving the goo that won't redissolve into the naphtha.
Thanks for the tip! If you hadn't said this swim would have definitely wasted this goo.

Swim had some (92% alch)IPA laying around the crib and decided to try to dissolve the goo with it, most of it did dissolve in the hot IPA, but not quite all of it(Swim will get %99 alch next time). It's been evaporating for a few days now and it certainly looks odd, there are big yellow goopy crystals popping out of the goo Smile, it looks like it's about halfway done evaping. After doing some reading I found that the goo that won't redissolve into naphtha is all or mostly NMT, not DMT, this probably explains why these crystals look so different.

When the crystals from the dissolved goo are done/dry are they still really sticky like the goo?
 
Wovendreams
#20 Posted : 4/23/2013 7:34:22 PM
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Thank you so much for this information, you have excelled in helping me along my journey, your info diagrams are much appreciated and am happy to see that the SWIM is also seeing progress, I wish you well on your journey and it is nice you too are bringing people towards their wishes.

Blessing, light and Power to you

Woven
 
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