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melatonin, psychedelic states and the pineal gland. Options
 
jamie
#1 Posted : 12/17/2012 11:04:00 PM

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Okay so I really need to make sense of some things here..becasue I have been TRIPPING on melatonin.

I dont want to get into a discussion of placebo experiences. This is definatly not placebo.

I got a bottle of it a couple weeks back and took 1.5mg sublingual that night..within 15 minutes I was starting to feel really high and sort of sedasted..but with a very distinct tryptamine buzz. I got a little anxious and went to lay in bed..as soon as I was laying there in the dark I started to have colorful hynogogic visions that were reminescent of DMT and psilocybin, and my mind was staring to feel like it was comming apart.

People have described melatonin as "tuning your warp coil" and "lubricating the mind"..and that is exactly what it feels like.

I realize now after taking it maybe 2 times a week for a few weeks that less than 500mics and I just get a mild but pleasant sort of sedated tryptamine feeling and then pass out without any of these psychedelic side effects. Above 500mics and I start to get the hypnogogia and then other effects.

Last night I took just over 1mg sublingual with some querecetin. I dunno what part was due to the querecetin or not..but I started to get some really weird mental effects within 20 minutes or so. I started to feel that same trytpamine buzz in my body and felt sort of stoned so I went to bed. When I got into bed it was like my brain was just flying apart..literally it was as if my thoughts are normally running in a sort of linear 3d mode, and the melatonin state was a non-linear sort of 5d layering and looping. I also began having light visions and felt like I had entered a DMT like state, sort of. It is hard to explain how similar it is to DMT because it differs in some main ways, but that "mental lubrication" effect is something that feels most distinct to melatonin.

I was starting to get really paranoid tossing around in bed at times..not freaking out but just restless and anxious with these visions and weird thought loops. I went into the bathroom at one point and was looking at the wall in the dark as was seeing these things sort of in the wall..but not really..I dunno what to say about it other than there was layers of things, each one at different depths in the walls at what I want to call an "etheric" level. I sat there wondering how the hell something like this is sold at the supermarket. At the time it was sort of like seeing into the matrix or something. I went back to bed and I think I passed out then and had really crazy dreams.

The effects are somewhere inbetween that of a light dose of DMT and a betacarboline..but different also..it's that mental lubing effect..it also has a strong auric quality..like I am laying in bed glowing in different colors all night long..but it is not so up front..none of the visions are. They sort of linger in the background of the mind, but are still present at times on the back of the eyelids..

Now, it is obvious that many people who take melatonin on a regular basis do not experience these effects..but then there are also other reports here and there of people who definatly do seem to experience them. Why this would be I can not say.

Melatonin, being a product of the pineal gland produced in large amounts in long term meditators is interesting though..and a direct conversion to pinoline might be part of the answer as to why it can be visionary and psychedelic for some people..maybe some people have a greater turnover of melatonin to pinoline?

I mean..I just dont get it. Why the line between being a viable psychoactive for some and not for others is so drawn out like this..

It is also not consistant the way DMT or psilocybin is. I cant predict that this will happen..but when it does happen it is consistant in what it does. It is not random and different every time. It is very specific in it's action..Usually though(75% of the time) if I have at least 1mg it happens.

Also, I was in bed last night after taking it, for 12 hours. Still, I woke up feeling tired and groggy as if I had been up late tripping all night. I get this every time(unless I have 500 mics or less) but it clears up within a few hours..and there is this weird fuzzy feeling in my pineal area and also a feeling of energy in my body that is almost identical to harmine.

I took it once at like 300 mics with a tiny bit of harmalas sublingual and meditated for a bit before I fell asleap..I dont remember much of that night really though. I have been wanting to experiment with melatonin and other tryptamines in combination but I have not gotten to that yet due to the really weird effects I already got on it's own.

This stuff is not like acid though..so dont read this post and think your just gunna drop a pill of melatonin at a party and go trip. It's not like that. It definatly has that tryptamine quality but it's completely different at the same time, and probly requires other factors like individual biochemisty etc for it to work this way.

I know some people here take up to like 75mg of the stuff for it's psychoactive effects. To be honest I am freaking paranoid of dosing it like that now. For me it is a powerful reality altering tryptamine, but it's effects are unique and probly not very well understood... and I just cant get my head around people taking 10mg etc of the stuff and saying nothing happened!

 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
embracethevoid
#2 Posted : 12/18/2012 12:15:06 AM

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For what it is worth, I share the same experiences with melatonin.

And I have found that L-tryptophan produces even wackier effects!

I am guessing it is pinoline or other tryptophan metabolites. If we could isolate this stuff we could trip some serious balls.

IIRC it is dangerous to take melatonin in the daytime and I quote: "These results indicate that the molecular structure of MLT is altered by UVA to unidentified photoproducts and a moderate phototoxicity of MLT is predicted" - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10230504.


If you want to see some fireworks, throw in some noopept and a gram or two of iboga root bark Pleased
 
Crazyhorse
#3 Posted : 12/18/2012 12:38:36 AM

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I took melatonin capsules every night before bed for about a month... never noticed any effect at all so I gave it up. Not sure what the MG was on those.
No direction but to follow what you know,
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No direction but to never fight her flow,
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universecannon
#4 Posted : 12/18/2012 2:04:29 AM



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the grogginess the next day is normal at first. i've heard that due to our deficiency in melatonin (from to artificial lighting, diet, other factors) there is a surplus of receptors for it, which is part of the reason for the grogginess...so it can take a while to adjust

theres at least a couple of other things to consider here...its important to point out that your a really sensitive dude and tend to experience some pretty psychedelic states at night without taking anything at all...so melatonin might be boosting and adding in its own flavor into what would already be an altered state to begin with. So it would make sense that your very prone to a situation where even a small amount of external melatonin might push things into that direction. i've known others who have the same affects with such small doses, and they find larger doses allow that to open up but in a smoother way that isn't so pushy

for some reason it works very differently at higher doses than it does at low doses. high doses i can still enter visionary aya-esque --but different, as you say-- experiences, but it seems that at low doses it sort of tricks the brain into thinking 'its time for sleep', and the circadian rhythms/chems start kicking into gear- which could explain why some experience such pronounced affects from lower doses. It might not be due to the melatonin itself, but the processes it sort of 'jump starts'. this may be why low doses can be so sedating whereas higher doses i can function normally without tiredness (although it may take a few times to get used to it), but still access the altered state with a bit of relaxation or focus. it doesn't jump start the sleeping chems/process since these levels of melatonin are more an approximation of the regular neurochemical operating environment of the past

its definitely really interesting combining it with psychedelics though. in the past few weeks i've combined it with lsd and dmt at the same time, and mushrooms a week before that, and there just aren't any words to describe it. it smooths out and potentiates tryptamines in a beautiful way
The Nexian


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jamie
#5 Posted : 12/18/2012 2:32:17 AM

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This starts within 15 minutes of taking it though uni, while I am still sitting at my computer half the time..I start to feel that buzz come on. Then I go lay down. I have always had lucid dreams and OBE`s and stuff, and still do..but this melatonin starts while totally awake.

It`s not really that small of a dose though when you concider that 1mg is like 10x the normal dose that would flood the brain at night.

The whole thing is weird to me. I have people telling me they eat 20mg and dont feel anything at all. Even if I am just sensitive you would think that 20x the dose would do soemthing for other people..but apparently if often does not.
 
jamie
#6 Posted : 12/18/2012 2:40:26 AM

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BTW..I do plan on vaping melatonin when I can purify it. That should be interesting I guess...
 
idtravlr
#7 Posted : 12/18/2012 6:10:45 AM

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Jamie, I find this post particulary interesting for two reasons:

1.) Melatonin has done nothing for me the times I've tried it, for sleep or otherwise. I have only taken it very occasionally however, and it has been years. Reading this has interested me in tying it again. I will play with doses, starting small (500mics) and working my way up.

2.) Zolpidem (Ambien) is quite psychedelic for me. I realize that zolpidem is a hypnotic which acts on GABA receptors and seems to have a very different psychopharmacology than melatonin, although neither is fully understood so they could be similar in some ways. With zolpidem I get the "lubricating of the mind" sensation that I believe you may feel with melatonin. I also get a distinct change in auditory perception and a modified perception of other's emotional and verbal communication (whether they are in person or over media like TV or radio). This is very hard for me to describe but it's fairly similar to a moderate dose of MDMA without the stimulation. (As a side note: My wife get's full blown hallucinations from zolpidem.)
I've done zolpidem with DMT many times and it is VERY different than any sober DMT experience. I've wanted to write about this in detail many times, but haven't for various reasons.

Anyway, my intent is not to hijack your melotonin thread, I'm just curious if there could be some similarities between melatonin and zolpidem and if you or anyone else can speak to the psychedelic effects you feel from each.

Oh as far as vaping melotonin, would you convert it to a freebase first? Any idea under what temperatures melatonin begins to break down?

Very interesting topic indeed. Thanks for brining this one up!

-idt
I am not a drug addict seeking escape from reality. I am an explorer of consciousness challenging consensus reality.

…is DMT dangerous? The answer is only if you fear death by astonishment… [crowd laughter]… Remember how you laughed when this possibility was raised… a moment will come that will wipe the smile right off your face.
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Anthimus
#8 Posted : 12/27/2012 11:31:05 PM

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Will be giving a closer look at this for different admin bioassays. multiple mg's oral has no detectable effect on my person. Sublingual and vape of a pure compound might hold promise. I'll dig up some of the medical literature on it and post the relevant information here.
 
jamie
#9 Posted : 12/28/2012 12:23:57 AM

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it does work oral for me also. 3mg oral was definatly working.
 
Jin
#10 Posted : 4/4/2013 2:15:21 PM

yes


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i just tried melotonin , last night
i agree with much of what jamie is saying
really glad i can get it easily from a pharmacy

i did not consume a high dose , i was quite sedated with the pill

i still could'nt remember any dreams though , i am also smoking cannabis , so i dont know what it had to do with this

i am not ready for a higher dose , the sedative effects are quite overwhelming ,

i really liked the part about glowing in colours and can totally relate

i seem to be also in a better mood and my responses towards people are more sane i guess

edit: i've read a trip report about someone vaping melotonin and falling asleep instantly , i don't know if that is too appealing to try

illusions !, there are no illusions
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universecannon
#11 Posted : 4/4/2013 6:47:50 PM



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^ its actually less sedating at high doses than it is at low doses, especially once you get used to it. some things just work very differently at different dosages. At high doses i can still fall asleep immediately if i try. But if i just stay doing whatever it is i'm doing at the time, then i can just stay up without getting tired

i've noticed more and more lately that after i take melatonin and go to sleep, i wake up in the morning with that visual-shutter affect harmalas give you when you move your eyes around. I get harmala/tryptamine type affects when taking it while awake (if i just relax or meditate. its subtle but builds under certain circumstances), but i don't really recall getting this harmala shutter affect by just taking it...it always occurs in the morning after a night with it
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Jin
#12 Posted : 4/4/2013 7:57:33 PM

yes


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universecannon wrote:
its subtle


Laughing Shocked , well it was'nt very subtle for me yesterday , and i was in panic from the sedation , the sedative qualities were so overpowering that i was literally holding objects as i went to the bathroom to pee and come back

i'll probably try a higher dose sometime to see if the sedative qualities are absent on a higher dose ........yet i am a little scared and little skeptical

i like the psychadelic qualities of this substance yet the sedation is what scares me ,
illusions !, there are no illusions
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seagull
#13 Posted : 5/1/2019 3:46:01 AM

Hello world!


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Hi,

Wonderful you are another melatonin fan? I can easily relate to the altered state of consciousness, and mostly stoned high it gives.
Headaches are normally cured by this mind you its actually migraine. Anyhow I learn how to use it daily. It does make you groggy but that's part of the experience.
Dreams are more vivid.
I think it might help me a bit.
Cheers and goodluck on the journey
You&Iverse
 
 
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