DMT - Dangerous for governments who want to keep their citizens brain-washed.

Thats funny, looks like your wish has been granted... Maybe you should check out the "Hi! I wrote that "DMT - Dangerous for your Mind?" text 5 years ago" thread. Created today.

Nexus SYNC

I think it hit the nail right on the head but in a rather biased way.

Sure DMT and other drugs like it are associated with delusion and psychosis.

A lot of shamanism is results based, not belief based and does not employ drugs, I think that point is absurd.

I have noticed that a minority of individuals, who tend to be very outspoken as well, do become extremely delusional and do develop messiah complex issues from drug use, because these people are so outspoken they give the impression that this is what DMT does commonly, however I have been party to dozens of people using DMT repeatedly and i can say that such delusions are rare and do not happen among most people i know. Not one person I know first hand who has taken DMT believes that it allows access to a higher dimension or to entities.

While such beliefs or delusions (whatever) are common online, in my experience psychedelics can be quite healthy and positive. A long term study of ayahuasca use in Brazil showed positive effects upon the mental health of the users in general. When long term studies of psychedelic uses show such things, we can assume that psychedelics are not good or bad, but are tools that can be used positively or negatively, just like a hammer or an axe.

In some individuals DMT and other drugs like it do promote the development of pre-existing psychosis, but these people tend to lack a certain type or rationality well before they ever take a psychedelic drug. In some cases a proper guided therapeutic psychedelic session actually helps people to realize their delusions and develop a more healthy outlook.

One issue is that DMT and other drugs affect how we perceive the separateness of self from the universe, not just in us, consider that mice on psychedelics react similarly and stop protecting themselves from predators. In many animals psychedelics induce behavior that is very dangerous to the animal taking them. At high doses with humans this is also the case, wandering into the street, not fearing things that one should etc. I know of many cases where someone took psychedelics and was injured or died by their behavior and poor (high) judgement.

I think that psychedelics in plants have the capacity to help protect the plant by endangering the animals that take them. We have taken these effects, such as the ones that break down barriers of self perception, as positive, but in other species this effect has the capacity to protect the plants/fungi from herbivores. One huge problem is that humans tend to be speciocentric and think that everything is all about and for them, that some master plan exists that centers round humans and was put together by (a) god. This is the real delusion that is the issue of the original post.

Psychedelics can evoke experiences that reinforce a persons ontology, if they have a teleological delusion then this will present more strongly. Sadly a lot of bad information, subjective experience based in teleological delusion, is found online and off and is informing peoples experiences in a potentially harmful way. Many people are taking drugs with the goal of experiences teleological perceptions, as opposed to exploring effects and consciousness. Thus there exists an approach that has the capacity to harm, in how people think of DMT well before they try it. This approach can have positive effects in terms of behavior though, deluded people can be very pleasant and nice people. I will take a nice delusional person over a rational asshole any day of the week.

Still, it bothers me how little objectivity people put into their consideration of psychedelic experiences. Then again, objectivity is not the nature of our species.

Excelente!!!

The term delusional is such a vague term, and one that is inherently filled with judgment. Albert, you're looking for people to have objectivity in their DMT experiences, yet referring to others' experiences as delusional can be incredibly subjective and relative. To call others delusional is to assume that your outlook on DMT is the only right one, and therefore those views that run contrary to your views of reality are "delusional". Using the term delusional suggests that there is one true outlook on reality which sounds incredibly egocentric.

What is and isn't considered delusional by society evolves with the times as well. If two thousand years ago, you were to say the earth were round, your peers would most likely find you delusional. Now although the topography of the Earth hasn't changed, you would no longer be considered delusional for having such a belief. However, if in two thousand years from now, it is commonly held knowledge that the Earth isn't round, for round is an adjective for lower dimensional objects, and as it should turn out the Earth is really more like a hyper-sphere or something, and all of those future people would think you delusional for thinking that the Earth was merely spherical (or something close). We should learn from history...that we're so often completely wrong about the whole situation; that everything is relative; and to keep an open mind.

Now clearly, some things touted by Nexians are incorrect and display not enough thinking through of the details on certain speculations, but this is very much a subjective experience, and should be treated as such. How should it be treated objectively? Should I keep a log of how many pillars in the temple in hyperspace I was in? Do I time exactly how long from start to finish the experience is? I don't see how you can be objective in any meaningful way with these subjective experiences.

I totally agree.

However I do have a belief (delusion) that there is an objective reality informing a subjective experience. This is because if subjectivity was all there is then it would be self subjective and this would negate measurable experiences and observations such as the weight and color of objects. Another topic for sure, but I mean to imply that there is indeed a singular valid reality and this can be reasonably demonstrated, but I agree that there is no true outlook on it or valid ontology. There are only validated ontologies and we have individual standards for such validation.




I cut this out of context to address the idea that the earth has not changed, if you believe this, then is that not to say that you are inferring or implying that an objective reality exists? Maybe the Earth was once flat? No evidence for it, but it is worth considering.



It is my belief that the objective view of it is to acknowledge it (the DMT and psychedelic experience) is so subjective that one cannot make a claim that it is an objective or real experience, period. Consider that different experiences of different people lead them to make different claims and have different beliefs, compare this to something objective, like a scale and weight, the weight of a person is non-subjective.

If there is any evidence that the DMT experience has an objective basis in terms of individual perceptions i would love to see how it is being measured. I believe that there is a neuro-chemical truth to the psychedelic experience that is measurable, and can be quantified and qualified. Like a weight, so to speak. Because the experience is so subjective, we can discard it as evidence of anything other than the effects of taking DMT, if it was incredibly standardized, like a weight or a color in what we call reality, then it would be a totally different thing, but it lacks this and the objective indication is that in all probability the experience is too subjective to take peoples opinions of it as indicative of fact.

The worst part about it is that it is a great distractor caused by preoccupation from the experience. One may tend to think about the many experiences very often, sometimes causing one to be majorly distracted during 'normal' affairs, responsibilities such as friends and family, etc. But I still do it!