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C13H16N2O2 to C12H16N2: Melatonin to Dimethyltryptamine. Options
 
Demideon
#1 Posted : 2/15/2013 12:35:20 AM

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So I know both are produced in the pineal gland from tyramine. I have bottles laying around of melatonin for sleep aid. As the feds close down our plant sources aren't chemical conversions like this something we could be considering. No chemist here (obviously), but how hard could such a conversion be with the proper materials? What kind of materials would you need?

I can't be the first Swim to think of this.. hehe
Imagine turning your 10 dollar 100 gram bottle of melatonin pills into a massive pile of DMT fumarate.
I stumble down a wooded path. A wooded path of my youth. Here spirits dance, but spirits scream. Misery and beauty entwine here- much like the suffering and the creation of the universe. My eyes glimmer black; dark circles in a darker night. Plants reach out to hold my hand- or perhaps devour me where I stand. I was afraid, it was a fight. I stumbled, stumbled on through the night. I met many a creatures- wolves and bears- ghosts and ghouls- I made love to my god, I surrendered my soul- with every step of my foot, every electrical charge of my brain, every memory of the past, every stare at the stars. I came to know twofold mysteries that night. The illusion of reality and the reality of illusion. It came to my senses then the nonsense of my knowledge. I knew at once I knew nothing. I knew at once I knew everything- for I knew then there was nothing to know.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Demideon
#2 Posted : 2/15/2013 12:48:02 AM

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As far as I understand all you have to do is remove a CO2 molecule?
I stumble down a wooded path. A wooded path of my youth. Here spirits dance, but spirits scream. Misery and beauty entwine here- much like the suffering and the creation of the universe. My eyes glimmer black; dark circles in a darker night. Plants reach out to hold my hand- or perhaps devour me where I stand. I was afraid, it was a fight. I stumbled, stumbled on through the night. I met many a creatures- wolves and bears- ghosts and ghouls- I made love to my god, I surrendered my soul- with every step of my foot, every electrical charge of my brain, every memory of the past, every stare at the stars. I came to know twofold mysteries that night. The illusion of reality and the reality of illusion. It came to my senses then the nonsense of my knowledge. I knew at once I knew nothing. I knew at once I knew everything- for I knew then there was nothing to know.
 
EZ4U2Shoot
#3 Posted : 2/15/2013 1:05:07 AM

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Demideon wrote:
As far as I understand all you have to do is remove a CO2 molecule?

Let me get my micro tweezers and I'll get right on it.
 
Demideon
#4 Posted : 2/15/2013 1:36:35 AM

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Well other molecules sort of are like little tweezers..
I stumble down a wooded path. A wooded path of my youth. Here spirits dance, but spirits scream. Misery and beauty entwine here- much like the suffering and the creation of the universe. My eyes glimmer black; dark circles in a darker night. Plants reach out to hold my hand- or perhaps devour me where I stand. I was afraid, it was a fight. I stumbled, stumbled on through the night. I met many a creatures- wolves and bears- ghosts and ghouls- I made love to my god, I surrendered my soul- with every step of my foot, every electrical charge of my brain, every memory of the past, every stare at the stars. I came to know twofold mysteries that night. The illusion of reality and the reality of illusion. It came to my senses then the nonsense of my knowledge. I knew at once I knew nothing. I knew at once I knew everything- for I knew then there was nothing to know.
 
anrchy
#5 Posted : 2/15/2013 1:44:29 AM

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This same thing already has a thread Synthesis of DMT from Tryptophan

It has not been shown that DMT is produced in the pineal gland. Why is this such a widespread myth amongst new members here. Do Your Research Please.

Read the ATTITUDE section

attitude wrote:
No synthesis talk that uses dangerous/watched chemicals and procedures

Discussion of simple safe non-commercial synthesis not requiring watched chemicals are tolerated (example: the reduction of DMT N-oxide to DMT with zinc, or the supposed LSA-to-LSH conversion).


And Traveler hath spoken on the thread I linked

The Traveler wrote:
As benzyme correctly pointed out: any synthesis discussion that involves dangerous and/or watched chemicals is not done here, we have to be very prudent with that one.

As for the difference from plant extractions: with our teks we are also extracting things like NMT with it, and maybe trace amounts of other alks too. So it will be different from pure synthetic DMT (which might also contain trace amounts of again other chemicals).


Kind regards,

The Traveler


Open your Mind () Please read my DMT vaping guide () Fear is the mind killer

"Energy flows where attention goes"

[Please review the forum Wiki and FAQ before posting questions]
 
Demideon
#6 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:04:32 AM

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I've had actual conversations with Dr. Rick Strassman about DMT likely being produced in the pineal gland where it's sister molecule another derivative of tryptophan: melatonin is produced.

How is melatonin dangerous or watched? It has virtually no LD50 and I can buy it on the shelf at the local gas station. ?
I stumble down a wooded path. A wooded path of my youth. Here spirits dance, but spirits scream. Misery and beauty entwine here- much like the suffering and the creation of the universe. My eyes glimmer black; dark circles in a darker night. Plants reach out to hold my hand- or perhaps devour me where I stand. I was afraid, it was a fight. I stumbled, stumbled on through the night. I met many a creatures- wolves and bears- ghosts and ghouls- I made love to my god, I surrendered my soul- with every step of my foot, every electrical charge of my brain, every memory of the past, every stare at the stars. I came to know twofold mysteries that night. The illusion of reality and the reality of illusion. It came to my senses then the nonsense of my knowledge. I knew at once I knew nothing. I knew at once I knew everything- for I knew then there was nothing to know.
 
Global
#7 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:12:57 AM

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Demideon wrote:


How is melatonin dangerous or watched? It has virtually no LD50 and I can buy it on the shelf at the local gas station. ?


It's not the melatonin that's watched, but rather the chemicals you'd need to convert melatonin to DMT....those tweezers you mentioned...
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein

"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead

"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
 
a1pha
#8 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:13:22 AM


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Demideon wrote:
I've had actual conversations with Dr. Rick Strassman about DMT likely being produced in the pineal gland where it's sister molecule another derivative of tryptophan: melatonin is produced.

Unless your conversations were 20 years ago then I don't see how this is the case. He openly regrets making these speculations because of the widespread misunderstanding it caused. The much more likely candidate for endogenous DMT production is the lung, or elsewhere.

If I'm incorrect here, please relay any conversations you had with him. News on this front would be most welcome.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -A.Huxley
 
universecannon
#9 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:32:55 AM



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oh god not another dmt/pineal debate please lol. We don't know yet- so lets just leave it at that!

It already pumps out psychedelic chemistry anyways (note all the beta carbolines..i.e. pinoline ect), so that at least would be a much more productive/useful discussion...Many of us here also get psychedelic affects from melatonin, but thats probably a complex thing with many interplaying factors

anyways back on topic... I would be very interested in hearing a legit method for converting melatonin into DMT using safe and unwatched chemicals. Benzyme seems to think its possible that melatonin can be partially metabolizing into 5meodmt, so maybe that would be easier..



<Ringworm>hehehe, it's all fun and games till someone loses an "I"
 
a1pha
#10 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:35:07 AM


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universecannon wrote:
oh god not another dmt/pineal debate please lol. We don't know yet- so lets just leave it at that!

Who's debating?! I just want evidence! ;-)
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -A.Huxley
 
benzyme
#11 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:35:47 AM

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melatonin to dmt? please tell me you're joking.
enzymes don't do that conversion. both molecules
are produced in two separate, parallel pathways.

and both are produced in the tryptophan metabolic pathway, not
tyramine. tyramine is a precursor to
the catecholamines, dopamine and norepinephrine.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
Kash
#12 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:51:13 AM

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Sure you could make dmt from melatonin as they are quite structurally similar. There likely wouldnt be any easy way of doing this though and it would require lab chems not readilty available.

You may as well just go straight from tryptophan as that is readily availble and closer in structure to dmt by lack of -OCH3 group on the 6 carbon ring. Again, this still wouldnt be that easy, but definitly doable.

MOD wrote:
NO synth talk
--------------------------------------------------*Kash's LSA Extraction* * Kash's Mescaline Extraction*------------------------------------------------------
All things I say are complete and utter ramblings of nonsense. Do not consider taking anything iterated from the depths of my subconsciousness rationally and/or seriously.
 
Kash
#13 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:56:47 AM

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Didnt know creating a link to another web site counted as synth talk. Woops.Rolling eyes
--------------------------------------------------*Kash's LSA Extraction* * Kash's Mescaline Extraction*------------------------------------------------------
All things I say are complete and utter ramblings of nonsense. Do not consider taking anything iterated from the depths of my subconsciousness rationally and/or seriously.
 
benzyme
#14 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:56:52 AM

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there's no way that methoxy group is coming off of melatonin.
this thread fails.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
ChemisTryptaMan
#15 Posted : 2/15/2013 3:54:36 AM

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amen, that just aint happenin.
 
infinitynlove
#16 Posted : 2/15/2013 4:25:52 AM

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EZ4U2Shoot wrote:
Demideon wrote:
As far as I understand all you have to do is remove a CO2 molecule?

Let me get my micro tweezers and I'll get right on it.


haha
I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention in fact everything I write here is a lie !

I hope in some way, my posts and replies may of helped you, I hope you like what I have said here if not feel free to send me a none flame PM
 
Demideon
#17 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:41:42 PM

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lol ok, thank you for the replies especially from Benzyme.
I'm merely curious and I don't think you could say I've not done any research-- just I’m a novice.

But anyway my actual conversations with Rick Strassman were by email and were more related to a study where Dmt was gradually administered IV method throughout the day in a German study (as my enquiries were more so about the effects of micro levels of DMT than anything to do about the pineal gland) If anyone’s interested in that I could bring it up for you.

But anyway, thanks for the curiosity and criticism.
I stumble down a wooded path. A wooded path of my youth. Here spirits dance, but spirits scream. Misery and beauty entwine here- much like the suffering and the creation of the universe. My eyes glimmer black; dark circles in a darker night. Plants reach out to hold my hand- or perhaps devour me where I stand. I was afraid, it was a fight. I stumbled, stumbled on through the night. I met many a creatures- wolves and bears- ghosts and ghouls- I made love to my god, I surrendered my soul- with every step of my foot, every electrical charge of my brain, every memory of the past, every stare at the stars. I came to know twofold mysteries that night. The illusion of reality and the reality of illusion. It came to my senses then the nonsense of my knowledge. I knew at once I knew nothing. I knew at once I knew everything- for I knew then there was nothing to know.
 
benzyme
#18 Posted : 2/15/2013 2:57:45 PM

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I also corresponded with Strassman in 2003, he even snail-mailed me some of his monographs, which he called "rants".

His pineal gland "theory" is more of a hypothesis, because even today there exists scant evidence of the key enzyme (INMT) expression in situ. he revised some of the hypotheses to suggest that some pineal enzymes (likely 5-HIOMT) produce products that may inhibit other enzymes (MAO) from endogenous DMT production. This product may be pinoline, among others... endogenous beta-carbolines.

sorry for the rather stern critique, I'll tell you why melatonin is not a good starting point, endogenous or otherwise: it is further along the tryptophan-metabolic pathway than simple tryptamines like DMT. Once something is added to the tryptamine (benzene) ring, it's not going to be removed, not even by enzymes. This occurs at the steps where serotonin is produced.


I've posted this a few times, and will continue to, to give people an idea of what I mean.



in the middle is tryptophan. tryptamine to NMT production occurs to the right in the pathway, serotonin occurs up, then right, and melatonin even further... as you can see, these are two parallel pathways. the entire serotonin production pathway, when active, would inhibit DMT production. human metabolism is genetically predisposed to favor serotonin production.

the numbers in the boxes represent EC#'s, Enzyme Commission. they represent the classes and subclasses of enzyme, for identification. You can type one into google, to find the name of the enzyme. The one for INMT is 2.1.1.49.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
 
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