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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
nen888
#841 Posted : 11/12/2012 7:01:42 AM
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acacian wrote:
Quote:
so the active maidenii has fairly long phyllodes that twist off in differen't directions a bit like obtusifolia? beautiful tree...
..indeed my friend, indeed..Smile

thought i should point out to Gopen that i realised Growpen was a typo a while back, but thought it funny..and boy has he grown and helped us to grow..Very happy ..thanks Seldom for mentioning it and my naphtha typo too..oops! i never work with it my excuse..but many swear by it..

and finally, just to follow-up from a brief tangent into the citrus family on p.40, and i can't be bothered starting a seperate thread, from the Lycaeum the other day:
Quote:

I'll be damned, I found a journal article that actually supports the presence of tryptamine alkaloids in Citrus bergamia (Bergamot). Unfortunately I do not have access to the full text, but if someone else can access it, I would love to know the details of the expression of the various alkaloids within the plant!
Quote

N-Methylated Tryptamine Derivatives in Citrus Genus Plants: Identification of N,N,N-Trimethyltryptamine in Bergamot
Luigi Servillo *†, Alfonso Giovane †, Maria Luisa Balestrieri †, Domenico Cautela ‡, and Domenico Castaldo §
J. Agric. Food Chem., 2012, 60 (37), pp 9512–9518
DOI: 10.1021/jf302767e
Publication Date (Web): September 7, 2012
Copyright © 2012 American Chemical Society
*Tel: +390815665865. Fax: +390815665863. E-mail: luigi.servillo@unina2.it.


Abstract:
The occurrence of N-methylated tryptamine derivatives in bergamot plant (Citrus bergamia Risso et Poit) is reported for the first time. Interestingly, the most abundant of these substances is N,N,N-trimethyltryptamine, which has not been previously identified in any citrus plant. The N-methylated tryptamine derivatives were identified and quantitated in leaves, peel, juice, and seeds by high-performance liquid chromatography–electrospray ionization–tandem mass spectrometry. N,N,N-Trimethyltryptamine was confirmed by MS3 and comparison with the synthesized authentic standard. In addition, the study of the distribution of tryptophan, tryptamine, N-methyltryptamine, N,N-dimethyltryptamine, and N,N,N-trimethyltryptamine indicated that these compounds are differently expressed in the various tissues of the bergamot plant. Intriguingly, chemically synthesized N,N,N-trimethyltryptamine was reported to possess nicotine-like activity being a stimulant of parasympathetic ganglia by exerting its action on acetylcholine receptors. On this basis, the identification of N,N,N-trimethyltryptamine at a relatively high level in leaves suggests a possible role in a physiological mechanism of plant defense.
source: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf302767e

[Papyrifera] ..and, no, it's not in the oil (which is from the rind) ..
............

ps. the p1 INDEX is a bit patchy after p.33 or thereabouts..will update to p.42 in near future
now, back to all things acacian..see you all about...
 

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a1pha
#842 Posted : 11/12/2012 7:06:21 AM


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nen888, You're my hero with this thread! I never imagined on post #2 that it would become the wealth of information it has - worth its weight in gold (or light)! Laughing Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!

I hope to be able to contribute soon once I can get out there and find some acacis.

Much love and many, many, many thanks.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -A.Huxley
 
nen888
#843 Posted : 11/12/2012 7:09:06 AM
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..hey a1pha..you were the 1st responder..thank you too!!Very happy
 
---ooo0ooo---
#844 Posted : 11/13/2012 12:24:44 AM
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Wow... That was an intense read. I've been doing little else over the weekend and since apart from trying to consume all the source and linked information in this thread. My head hurts.

nen and all others participating here - you are doing wonderful work. Thank you very much for sharing the fruits of your time and energy.

Can I pose a question regarding sustainable harvesting?

Obviously phyllodes are the way to go from a sustainable ecological perspective. What conclusions have the community come to in relation to answering the question of "How dead is TOO dead?"

Specifically, I want to know how quickly alkaloid content would degrade in dropped trees, limbs and phyllodes?

Thanks!

---ooo0ooo---
 
acacian
#845 Posted : 11/13/2012 1:10:49 AM

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welcome ---ooo0ooo--- .. yeah its a great thread isnt' it. i myself have learnt a whole lot from nen's vast acacia knowledge and its given my own research much more direction.. i'm sure I can speak for many others here.

Down to business... will be collecting phyllodes from the floribunda in this post https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=387072#post387072

as well as some mucronata and black wattle. will have results up soon as possible. And i'll try not to burn the brew this time Pleased
 
phyllode
#846 Posted : 11/13/2012 6:06:24 AM

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Hello ooo0ooo!
Quote:
Obviously phyllodes are the way to go from a sustainable ecological perspective. What conclusions have the community come to in relation to answering the question of "How dead is TOO dead?"

Specifically, I want to know how quickly alkaloid content would degrade in dropped trees, limbs and phyllodes?
This has been covered somewhere in the thread, but yes it's a lot to take in in one inhalation, ha,ha.
To answer your call, for Both Phyllodes And Storm-blown Limbs not after a lot of rain. If it hasn't rained a lot both should be alright for months, quite a few months. Once I collected some brown phyllodes in area a bush fire had gone through. They hadn't been burned but seemed a but "lighter" somehow. Anyway, they didn't have anything left.
Vaporised I imagineSmile. No wonder the poor animals look so tripped out when they a fleeing bush fires.Shocked

And Acacian. On burning the brew (I think we've all done that at least once on the long road) :
Luke: "I can't do it!." Yoda: "On what you were doing and where you are, your mind was Not!"
ha,ha sorry Acacian. I couldn't resist it! Wishin u well for the next one! Laughing

Great find on the find on the Bergamot! Exellento!

And thanks Nen, and all you "language makers" in herePleased ,and A1pha, and Ω.
And The Plants.<3

 
acacian
#847 Posted : 11/13/2012 9:18:41 AM

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Well... i don't know whats going on.. the floribunda tree has seemingly disappeared, which is pretty odd. Perhaps I was not quite in the right location, but I'm 99% sure I was... very strange... and kind of unnerving, it was a very mature floribunda and was perhaps the most beautiful specimen I've seen around. I really hope it hasn't been cut down by council.. or by wildharvesters (the latter i highly doubt as surely anyone would realise a whole tree needn't be destroyed) if so, shame on them. I'm going to have another look for it tomorrow... it is harder to spot the floribundas now because they aren't in flower so that may be where the problem lies.

Also I went out to the yarra ranges today... WOW. What a beautiful place. Huge towering gums looming over godly ferns and acacias. Deeply mystical place. Photos soon on the acacia gallery.. only a couple acacia I found growing there - acacia melanoxyn and acacia dealbata .. the melanoxyns were really intriguing because even the fairly mature plants had a mix of juvenile and mature phyllodes.. every single plant except for one really large tree had this characteristic

Anyways, grabbed some phyllode and twig from what I'm pretty sure is a regular mucronata and another floribunda.. will begin with them tonight. the mucronata was from not this exact plant but one right near which was basically identical.. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=386771#post386771

oh.. and for any acacia interested linguists out there.. have a go at this one .. Acacia jibberdingensis Pleased
 
nen888
#848 Posted : 11/13/2012 9:33:02 AM
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..on ya! acacian..& i know you're on it!Laughing
phyllode's on it, and no doubt half of the readers..haha
and even a few of the agentsWut?
Quote:
the melanoxyns were really intriguing because even the fairly mature plants had a mix of juvenile and mature phyllodes..
..that's a distinguishing feature of the species, reverting to juvenile leafs in mature trees..
Quote:
Acacia jibberdingensis
..languagemakers can be visual too..as the Traveler likes to jest on occasion :
Quote:
Photos, or it didn't happen!Very happy

see you all!..
@


nen888 attached the following image(s):
jibberdingensis_simmons2.jpg (89kb) downloaded 256 time(s).
 
acacian
#849 Posted : 11/13/2012 10:16:40 AM

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detective constable acacian is on the matter! just after he finds his badge...

tree-raperTwisted Evil ...... acacianStop

 
acacian
#850 Posted : 11/13/2012 11:47:31 AM

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was just looking through warrendyte's flora database... and came accross a stunning little wattle called acacia lanigera. just wondering if you know of any alkaloid testing on this one? I still have much more exploring to do of the warrendyte area, and unfortunately haven't come accross one yet.. but I gotta say - that is one beautiful looking plant and it has the "teacher vibe" as far as I can tell from the photos.... oh, and the phyllodes look eerily similar to the spikes of Acacia Oxycedrus.. do you know if they are related at all? again.. can't find any info





 
phyllode
#851 Posted : 11/14/2012 1:35:49 AM

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Acacian wrote:
Quote:
tree-raper Twisted Evil
What, you think someone DID cut that big floribunda down?!
 
acacian
#852 Posted : 11/14/2012 2:06:06 AM

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nah not sure... but tree raper covers both council and wildharvester for in my book Smile ... can't go back today but gonna try and get back tomorrow to have another look.
 
nen888
#853 Posted : 11/14/2012 3:18:20 AM
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..hey acacian, don't know anything about a. lanigera..look forward to being educated..Smile
......................

..on the Texan and Central American Acacia rigidula..see post p.9 here on the controversial finding of 44-odd alkaloids..
the usual criticism levelled by skeptics at the findings is that many of these compounds must have been contamination of lab ware, as a couple of them were not previously known in nature (although it's worth noting that DMT was 'discovered' synthetically before being 'discovered' in nature)
..but, if that was the case, i.e. contamination of equipment from residues of previous tests, then we could screen out all supposed compounds below a certain % (most of them very trace, 10-20 times lower in concentration, supporting possible contamination..) giving us the following probable contents:
Phenethylamine, N-methyl-phenethylamine, N,N-dimethyltryptamine, N-methyltryptamine, Pipecolamide, Hydroxy-pipecolaminde, Tyramine, N-methyltyramine, 4-methyl-2-pyridinamine.

..all such compounds have been found in Acacias before..it is possible that it could contain nicotine, suggesting extreme caution..nicotine has been found in Acacia concinnia (Asia) ..
.....................................................................................................................................


also, there is some info on growing acacias from cuttings on p.12#232 ff. ..acacias do not take easily from cuttings, but it has been achieved..that page includes a mention of
Rhyzobium - Symbiotic Nitrogen-Fixing Bacteria in here p12
Quote:
.as a for rhyzobial (Rhyzobium) nodes, these are colonies of symbiotic nitrogen-fixing bacteria living in the roots..they provide nitrogen from the air to the soil, and plant, in exchange for sugars from the plant..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizobium
..very healthy acacia trees will usually have some of these small ball-nodes on the roots..it is possible to dig a bit and collect a few without damaging the root system or harming tree..when added to acacia seedling potting mix such bacteria will greatly boost growth rates and health..
..i wanted to add this to the discussion in Acacia DMT Season..

and lastly, the days of the tree-rapists are numbered..someone knows who they are..
.

below, Rhyzobial nodes (colonies) on acacia roots; the signal and metabolic pathway in symbiosis; an individual Rhyzobium species bacteria; & Acacia stenophylla (Murray River, Vic..known to particularly take to rhyzobium, and vice versa..meaning good nitrogen-fixer..and last, A. rigidula - Blackbrush Acacia in the USA..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
nodes_on_roots.jpg (50kb) downloaded 272 time(s).
signalling system.jpg (44kb) downloaded 276 time(s).
individual_bacteria.jpg (61kb) downloaded 274 time(s).
A. stenophylla.jpg (21kb) downloaded 271 time(s).
-BlackbrushAcaciaRigidula-3.jpg (179kb) downloaded 262 time(s).
 
acacian
#854 Posted : 11/14/2012 4:40:28 AM

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There's a stenophylla growing just around the corner from where i live. always love running my fingers through its long droopy phyllodes when i walk past Smile

Oh, and I'm pretty interested in learning more about acacia in a more broad sense....want to get a good book for identification, cultural use and also chemical properties... if you could reccomend a good book to buy, I would be a happy man
 
SpiceMind
#855 Posted : 11/14/2012 9:02:41 AM

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Hey some great results coming through this thread! Great job nen on keeping it all together!
I saw that wattle thing quite a few years ago now,way over priced for information thats old and now readily available on Internet! Try some Australian plant encyclopedias and Australian acacia journouls for something to read. Not to mention this thread!! This is where the information isBig grin
Just thought I would let the acacia heads know I had a positive result on a floribunda veriant. 200g twigs and phyllodes dry yielded 600mg apon extraction. Bioessay was FANTASTICThumbs up made into changa after results.
The threads looking great!!







 
nen888
#856 Posted : 11/14/2012 9:07:19 AM
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^..yeah the cd-rom's wicked!Smile pirateb0b..ain't cheap though..thanks , and thanks also Spice MindVery happy
...............................................................................................................


..some cultural notes for a future 'book' which needs hurrying upSmile..>
also, to me the Mesquite is like the Acacia of America..Land of the Four Winds>
..the Ghost Dance (Nanissáanah) was an old plains native american ritual/ceremony associated sources tell me with the Mesquite tree..it gave the warrior, to protect the children and mothers, the power to rise from the dead..the Mesquite tree mezquitamal was a major source of nutrition, in the form of it's gum sugars for infants, and it's seed as flour, and also as an antiseptic medicine..an all-round tree..
.some say .at the Battle of Wounded Knee the warriors thought they could run through a hail of bullets as the Troopers opened fire on what frightened them the most..
Quote:
On the morning of December 29, the troops went into the camp to disarm the Lakota. One version of events claims that during the process of disarming the Lakota, a deaf tribesman named Black Coyote was reluctant to give up his rifle, claiming he had paid a lot for it.[6] A scuffle over Black Coyote's rifle escalated and a shot was fired which resulted in the 7th Cavalry's opening fire indiscriminately from all sides, killing men, women, and children, as well as some of their own fellow troopers. Those few Lakota warriors who still had weapons began shooting back at the attacking troopers, who quickly suppressed the Lakota fire. The surviving Lakota fled, but U.S. cavalrymen pursued and killed many who were unarmed.

their bodies lay stiff afterwards in the snow..but perhaps they did this so they truly would rise from the dead..through the trees..and walking through the bardo-worlds..
Quote:
[In the Lakota] news spread among the reservations of a Paiute prophet named Wovoka, founder of the Ghost Dance religion. He had a vision that the Christian Messiah, Jesus Christ, had returned to earth in the form of a Native American. The Messiah would raise all the Native American believers above the earth. During this time the white man would disappear from Native lands, the buffalo herds and all the other animals would return in abundance, and the ghosts of their ancestors would return to earth — hence the word "Ghost" in "Ghost Dance".

..they are also guardians of the soil, nitrogen-fixers in the family Fabaceae like acacias..a few are also found in africa and asia..
good for 'smudging'..
..alkaloids found in mesquites include harman, tetrahydroharman, tryptamine, NMT, N-acetyl-tryptamine and serotonin, plus some uniquely mezquitamalian compounds..also MAOI flavonoids have been found..
see the entry on Mesquite p.12 linked above for more..some photos below..
...............................................


ps. on SAFETY: please don't orally ingest unknown acacia leaves..the above examples of a. rigidula is good example of why..you don't want oral nicotine..! that said, nicotine seems VERY rare in acacias..

i think Seldom is really leading the way in devising quick and low cost methods of getting an idea of what alkaloids are in Acacias, without having to use very much plant..or risk..see the top of previous page..
additionally, the concept and use of 're-agents' is fairly straightforward once grasped (and especially seen) ..
...............

the Angle Isle equivalent to Mesquite and Acacia is Scotch Broom, also Fabaceae..also interesting contents..loves the Heathers of Scotland ....used to make brooms (to fly with i imagine Smile)

what is Memory? what Form is it? could Plants have deep ones?

now, what's happening out there watchers of the acacia..?


love and respect to the trees..
..and all <3
@

photos: the Ghostance and Mesquite> and scotch broom, paler variety..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
-Ghost_Dance_at_Pine_Ridge.png (275kb) downloaded 232 time(s).
geuu_.jpg (30kb) downloaded 228 time(s).
-wrapped-in-mesquite.jpg (309kb) downloaded 229 time(s).
Broom_Scotch.jpg (78kb) downloaded 217 time(s).
 
nen888
#857 Posted : 11/14/2012 9:18:55 AM
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SpiceMind wrote:
Quote:
Just thought I would let the acacia heads know I had a positive result on a floribunda veriant. 200g twigs and phyllodes dry yielded 600mg apon extraction. Bioessay was FANTASTIC made into changa after results.
The threads looking great!!
..many thanks SpiceMind, and for that report..that's exactly the sort of post WE LOVE in here! Big grin ., now before you all start asking him "how was it done?", post in the Acacia Extraction Workspace..Pleased
.


ps. this kind of reserach and devotion to acacias suits the patient and caring..

if you just want 'DMT Fast!' then grow some good Phalaris..Neutral
.
 
acacian
#858 Posted : 11/14/2012 10:05:58 AM

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congrats spice mind thats exactly what I needed to hear. Could you ellaborate on the qualities of the plant? phyllodes, bark, texture etc. I collected some floribunda phyllodes yesterday arvo.. but have been too tired to extract from either it or the mucronata or the black wattle

and yeah, seldom is on the money Pleased any news on the rubida mate? by the way... i'm going to be in town very soon broseph we should definitely go bushwalking.

I kind of wanted a hardcopy book that I could take with me on my adventures as a reference. I have a folder which I've been putting together from just photocopying heaps of pages from books, but i'd rather have something with colour photos.. colour photocopy at the library costs WAY too much.... and of course I can use the hard cover book to smite any reckless wildharvesters or council tree killers mwahahahahhahahha m'yes Twisted Evil Rolling eyes

i can't type anymore.. too tired. will post soon Razz
 
---ooo0ooo---
#859 Posted : 11/14/2012 11:34:56 AM
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acacian wrote:
...will be collecting phyllodes from the floribunda in this post https://www.dmt-nexus.me...amp;m=387072#post387072

as well as some mucronata and black wattle. will have results up soon as possible. And i'll try not to burn the brew this time Pleased


Thanks for the welcome acacian and best of luck in all future endeavours. In case of further production issues, we can pass around the hat and outsource to India. Pleased
 
---ooo0ooo---
#860 Posted : 11/14/2012 11:37:43 AM
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phyllode wrote:
This has been covered somewhere in the thread, but yes it's a lot to take in in one inhalation, ha,ha.


Ha! Truer words never spoken!

phyllode wrote:

To answer your call, for Both Phyllodes And Storm-blown Limbs not after a lot of rain. If it hasn't rained a lot both should be alright for months, quite a few months. Once I collected some brown phyllodes in area a bush fire had gone through. They hadn't been burned but seemed a but "lighter" somehow. Anyway, they didn't have anything left.
Vaporised I imagineSmile. No wonder the poor animals look so tripped out when they a fleeing bush fires.Shocked


Thank you very much for both the information and the giggle! Pleased
 
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