Thanks, this all gives me some promising new directions to try.



It's that "insane" feeling I really want to avoid, it automatically brings me into sort of a flashback state relating to my old bad LSD trip, which is the thing I'm trying to heal with all this in the first place. My feeling is that something that will let me have a deeper experience WITHOUT triggering that same psychotic state of mind, might finally be able to get me past it and break that cycle for good so I can enjoy the learning possibilities that ALL these substances have to offer.

Have you tried cactus for healing? I have some periodic bouts with depression, or bipolar syndrome (not been officially diagnosed). It's nothing serious, but I think what ever the cause is, it gets me in this depressed mood. Then the negativity feeds off itself and I stay depressed and it is SO hard to will myself to be happy again. My last cactus trip I went into specifically to ask for healing. The mushrooms did this for me in January this year, but the cactus (San Pedro) has a very long history of miracle healing. So I asked and it obliged. Been feeling pretty awesome for over 3 weeks now!

I have noticed on very intense trips that I can access past trips. It seems as though you are afraid or have had this happen regarding your bad LSD trip, so I know what you're talking about. I have two thoughts on this. If you don't resolve it, and worry about it it will always be there, which I'm sure you know. I don't know if you can confront it head on or not, but that may be the key. The cactus is very stable for me at high doses. This last time was a very intense time, and it took a few hours to work the negativity out of me. When I did, oh man I felt good!
My second thought is something Terrence McKenna said. When he went on his high dose shroom trips he said he would think about all of the things that bother him before hand. Anything bad or anything he worried might come up during the trip, he addressed before. He said that this way, the mind is bored with it and ready to move on to other things. So I don't know if this may be a way for you to live with it, but it's a thought!

well I can assure you ayahuasca can give you all those insane feelings..I have freaked my face off on high doses of ayahuasca and been every bit as confused as I have with mushrooms. This is just what happens when you experience ego death..the reason people assume DMT is not like that IMO is because they are vaping it and vaporizing is so fast I think it almost allows you to bypass that stage and be shot right into the ego dissolution. Mushrooms do have this coyotee trickster vibe to them, but that are not THAT different from DMT really..at this point give me a visionary dose of cubes and the similarities between that and aya are astounding and definatly outweight the differences.

They are definatly two different things but sooooo similar..and do not expect oral DMT to be as easy going as vaped DMT. It is not. It is usually a shorter experience though which can be a plus, and cubes can make me feel sicker at times then ayahuasca..except for some higher doses ayahuasca..high dose ayahuasca was the most sick and confused I have ever been..def enlightening though..on par with my highest dose of psilocybe cyanescens. Both deserve serious respect.

Sooner or later I guess I need to start my own thread about all this, seems like I always end up talking about it in someone elses'. There's a lot of info on the initial bad experience HERE.

I haven't tried working with any sort of cactus yet, and you're right I probably should. I've been curious about peyote for years but it's never presented itself, and I've never really gone searching. I assume it will show up on it's own when it's time to take that step, like mushrooms eventually did.

In my particular case this old trip appears to be something that's burned pretty deeply into my subconscious, whether I think or worry about it beforehand seems to have much less to do with it recurring than the relative dosage of whatever I take. I've gotten back there accidentally before by going deeper than I meant to, like eating 2G of PE and expecting it to be a mild experience like 2G of B+. I wasn't worried about it at all really, low doses like that had never caused it before. I didn't realize PE was like double strength. Up until then, I was optimistic that the chemical pathway of shrooms was different enough from LSD not to take me back there. But then here comes the associated sound in my head, and the fear, and the same old thought-loop that kept me away from psychs for so long.

The only way I've found of confronting it, is going there anyway, and gradually trying to teach my subconscious that it's ok, I can have these sorts of experiences and NOT live out the old "prophecy" that my mind telling me very loudly IS going to come true. Right NOW! Having low dose experiences fairly regularly seems to be helping, slowly... I go out into the water a little bit and come back unharmed, and each time it tells that damaged part of me "see, it's ok, it didn't come true." But when I go too far out, it's still there, getting in the way of ever really having any OTHER kind of experience.

DMT on it's own doesn't seem to take me back there the way that mushrooms (at least cubes) can, and by itself has never triggered any of this stuff. Then during the most intense part of my Caapi/DMT experience, the sound was there, but I was able to ride it out and didn't get stuck in the loop. I tried to just commune with the moment, and express my gratitude to whatever, for keeping me safe. But as soon as the peak wore off and I was able to move around again, the fear came on. Thankfully that didn't last too long and I distracted myself with drawing on the comedown. I wasn't worried about flashbacks before this either, because DMT on it's own had always felt so safe, and doesn't seem to come with that same "insane" thought distortion time-loop thing for me. I can still think relatively normally, and basically just observe whatever is happening.

I really thought DMT and Caapi would feel the same, just last longer and maybe take me futher into hyperspace. The bad trippiness aspect lurking around the edges really caught me by surprise. And like I said at first I thought it was just the remainder of the mushrooms I'd had earlier in the day being amplified, but now I'm being told it would have been pretty much the same thing without them, so I just don't know anymore. All I can think to do now is get ahold of more caapi and try it again seperated by at least a week from mushrooms, and see just how similar they really are for me. If I still go back there, I might be stuck dealing mainly with vaped DMT alone until I can work through this.

Changa will let you stay in vaped DMT land for as long as you like. It's how I've been drawing a bit lately.

I didn't know PE was that much more potent. I actually am a rarity as I have only gone on one cube trip in all of my probably 100-ish mushroom trips. Had a bunch of cubes, but they got destroyed in my fridge disaster of summer '12. Have you any access to other species? There can be a huge difference in experience. Liberty caps and I do not agree. They're like a corroded key in a rusty lock, whereas both cyan's are super awesome rockin' good times every time I've had them.

I bought all of my cactus off the net. Pedro is a bit more work than peyote, but it's worth the work to me!

Accomplishment of a journey on harmalas and mushrooms are quite regressive into further trips so I feel. However communication between the two have very different interest in you as an individual. Becoming one with the mushroom has a more distinct grandeur from wherever we come from. Where is consciousness, what is it doing here, can these permutations of rearranging sequences be valid loss of entropy regarding the sort of order we find ourselves in the amassed engine of the universe? "Become the shroom" is the sort of vibe that penetrates through my arbitrary state of mind. In order to transcribe I do believe oral ayahuasca has a definitive, DIVINE grounding to the planet along with her wishful subsistence. Both very much alive creatures willing to collaborate, permeate and communicate. DO not fall for perturbation but deposit solutions because they may just have something to learn.. from you

Yeah I do like the idea of changa, I've made some enhanced viridis leaf but currently don't have any harmalas to add and take it that extra step. But hopefully soon that will be an option.



PE is crazy stuff. The saying over on shroomery used to be "A cube is a cube". these days it's "A cube is a cube, except for PE". 2G of PE (maybe less) hit me at least as hard as 4G of B+.

I've never had access to any kind other than those, I grew a few flushes of B+ myself to make a stash, and got the PE from someone else. But if some of these other types are really noticeably "cleaner", I'm up for getting some spores and setting up the SGFC again to check it out.



Pedro does seem to be easier to obtain, and I've been thinking of getting some seeds or cuttings anyway, just because I like growing things and want to start a little entheo garden as a long-term project. I'll keep it in mind as something to try sooner rather than later, but I'm always nervous about trying something new without a reliable sitter (Which for me seems to be much harder to find than the substances themselves). I also need to find a safe place away from home to do these explorations. My last trip revealed that my environment may be part of the problem.

Some interesting points on this thread, my experiences with these combos definitely align with Mr polytrip's and jamie's. I've ingested DMT along with mushrooms and an MAOI a few times and it produces VERY powerful results. The highest I've ever been is with this combo. MAOI + mushrooms can produce very powerful results alone, both Syrian Rue and caapi have sent me to somewhere very deep... 30g caapi + 1g dried Hawaiian Pan cyans + 200mg freebase oral DMT produced my most powerful experience...in retrospect I'm not sure this dosage of DMT was needed! Expect some turbulence on the way up. It had my hyper ventilating, and it felt very tangibly like dark thunder clouds were gathering around my head...really weird and vivid, had a pseudo Biblical vibe! The purge was very deep, and for some reason I roared as I purged...I'm usually pretty chilled when I purge noise wise, fellow purgers have even commented on it! But not this time. But the purge released all the physical and mental negativity, and from feeling this gathering storm of darkness and foreboding, a minute later I was saturated in the most intense and ineffable earthy liquid bliss and ecstasy I have EVER experienced. I remember coming out of the bathroom and telling my friend and co tripper that I felt like I was in the presence of God, and I'm not someone who says that lightly.

Personally these days I think I prefer caapi overall as it I purge easily with it, and this acts as a safety net if things start to get too intense. I can never purge on Syrian Rue so for me it lacks this safety net. It's also worth watching your dose of rue, less can be more, with caapi there is much more wiggle room. I wouldn't personally use cubensis mushrooms with an MAOI either these days, I think any muddy effects can be exacerbated by the MAOI. My fave mushrooms of the one's I have so far encountered are Hawaiian Pan cyans, these are incredibly clean and crystalline in nature for me consistently, so smooth. I am starting a grow of Psilocybe mexicana though so, I've heard great things about these mushrooms also. I also want to explore the smoking of DMT and changa with oral harmalas and mushrooms, this is a frontier I've barely explored but will be in the future.

Hmm, could panaeolus cyanescens and copelania cyanescens be just two different names for the same mushroom?

They are synonyms...Copelandia is the synonym for the accepted generic name Panaeolus.