It becomes exactly like ayahuasca, when you have shrooms that are very clean, like p azurescens, copelandia cyanensis or p.mexicana. With shrooms like p.cubensis, you get mixed results and often more unpleasant side-effects.
With shrooms that are very clean by themselves, it´s hard to distinguish the experience from a normal ayahuasca journey. It´s basically a very intense, slowed down mushroom trip with an added level of mental clarity. It also depends on the amount of caapi/rue you use, just like with normal ayahuasca brews.

Crazyhorse:
Yes, psilocybin and psilocin are both actually forms of DMT, in which their overall structures are the same. DMT and psilocin/psilocybin are very closely related to seratonin.

Psilocybin: O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
Psilocin: 4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine

I always wonder why psilocin and psilocybin are so fragile compared to DMT. I tried smoking a little bit of shrooms once, but no luck. I read it didn't work, but hoped I would somehow be special.

I have also found that rue+shrooms lasts a good hour to two longer than without.

So does that mean that mushrooms have an MAOI component too since the DMT is orally active?

Cheers polytrip.

What do you think about psil cyanescens as clean shrooms?? Would you dose the standard 50grammes of caapi tea, before munching how many grammes of cyanescens?? dried or fresh, with or without lemon juice.??

Of course this is simply enquiring.

That's another thing I have wondered about. It seems thatif they are so similar that mushrooms wouldn't be active orally alone. I suppose those differences are enough to change mushroom's ability to take heat, as well as they are harder to be broken down by the body.... strange... that's chemistry for you!

No, because mushrooms don't contain dmt, but psilocybin amongst other things.

I don´t have experience with psilocybe cyanescens, only copelandia cyanescens. Generally though, you can say that shrooms that turn very blue, have high levels of psilocin. The name p.cyanescens sugests that this is the case with this particular shroom. 50 grams of caapi is a good dose for me, but i have sort of an iron stomach when it comes to these things: 50 grams doesn´t make me throw up and doesn´t get me nauseated at all. Fresh is definately preferable but i have taken dried shrooms as well and that was OK. The lemon juice thing is great, but i would recomend to eat the remaining shrooms and chew realy well, because there´s always some stuff that´s left in it.

Do not take more than 1g of psilocybe cyansescens if you are unfamiliar with these mushrooms..especially with harmalas. I have many times had decent experiences from as little as 1/3rd of a gram or so without harmalas.

How can you say mushrooms don't contain DMT if psilocin and psilocybin are both forms of DMT themselves?

dmt is not the same as psilocybin. Structurally it may appear so, however that's where the likeness ends. for example dmt needs a maoi ingested for oral functionsilocybin doesn't.

I've only used a rue & caapi extract blend (my concoction) with mushrooms and I second the thought of... be careful! With only 2g of shrooms, my lady and I were catapulted WAAAAAAY farther than 2g usually gets us. It was very groovy, but VERY intense. I was without a body, well, I was without a universe actually for 15 minutes or so. All good, but just thought I'd chime in... MAOI=Mushroom Octane. It's well worth it knowing what you're getting into IMO.

Good luck

What's strange to me about this is that, at least for me, DMT alone is such a completely different feeling from mushrooms. It's so much more clear headed, even when things are going crazy it's less of a confusing mind%&*# than shrooms. I guess I was expecting DMT+MAOI to just be MORE of that DMT feeling, rather than just being more like shrooms. If this is really the case, and all I have to look forward to on an Aya journey is pretty much the same thing as a heavy dose of mushrooms, honestly I'd have to say I'm a little disappointed.

SORRY, i can't help myself!

http://www.youtube.com/w...=player_detailpage#t=24s

Some types of shrooms can also be that clear. Every species of shroom has a bit of it´s own character. The cleaner they are, the more they will be like DMT. In my opinion, when harmala´s are added, it becomes definately less fuzzy. Harmala´s make the experience more clear headed, but some types of shroom just have a bit of a 'muddy undertone'.

pOLYtrip, i haVE some experience of chemical reference blue rooms (hic, i'm drunk!)..and my scientific (hic!) understanding apart from being drunk is that you are "spot on, 100% clear , with your explanations!....(hic!)

cheers

Psilocin and DMT are nearly identical in my experience. You probly just need to try out a different species of mushrooms. Cubensis are more confusing and can be weirder than DMT, probly due to other compounds. Some other species are much clearer feeling and basically identical to DMT in how I remember it. I have not worked with any mushrooms other than cubes in a few years..and I love cubes but want to work with some other species again as well.

Thanks, that's interesting and good to know. I'll have to look into some different types. How do philosophers stones/magic truffles rate on the "muddiness" scale? I've been curious to try those. The only mushrooms I've had so far have been cubes (PE and B+), I like them at low doses but for me there's just too much confusion above 4 or 5 grams. It's the clarity of vaped DMT that got me interested in it, and I'd have thought taking it orally would be like that, just more of it... but for me caapi+DMT felt just like a high dose of cubes, with some added body load and CEV. Initially I blamed the mushrooms I'd had earlier in the day for this, but now it's sounding like maybe they didn't really alter the experience too much after all.

More experimentation is definitely required here!

well..oral DMT can be very clear and also very confusing at times. Right now my favorite method is changa, though 3 months ago or so I would have sworn it was ayahuasca. It changes all the time depending on what sort of work I need to be doing. There is a very special clarity with vaped DMT though that I dont think you can get any other way..maybe IV..just as there are aspects to oral use unique to it.

I think these things can produce some other body effects etc that can cause discomfort and other effects when consumed orally..

I would bet that if one could vape psilocin it would also be extremely clear on a level above oral..though like stated above there are species of mushrooms that feel much clearer than cubensis..and at the same time there are some DMT sourse plants that are concidered to produce some "muddy" sort of effects as well.

We are comparing a mushroom that contains psilocin as just one out of a group of alkaloids, to DMT extracted from plants with a cery clean profile so this is not really an accurate comparison. A mushroom very high is psilocin/psilocybin relative to other alklaoids would be a better candidate for this comparison.

That said, that loopy sort of vibe that can come with cubensis also can lend itself to very deep and profound insights in my experience..so I would not have it any other way. It is a mushroom that has always been extremely sacred to me and I have done a lot of healing work with this mushroom..I can always grow a different species for that extra DMT like clarity.

Psilocybe mexicana I hear is a good one..also Pan cyans..both can be grown indoors.

Pan cyan are the very most unique shroom I've had. I have had times where I felt almost no change in my head or body, to where I could hardly tell I was tripping, and yet I am seeing pretty profound and crystal clear visions with them. They seem to have an absolutely smooth texture to them.

My absolute favs are psilocybe cyans. If any of you non-pnw residents get a chance at some wood-lovers, take it! You won't be disappointed! Except they are much more bitter and hard to eat than cubes, but it makes up for it by having to eat less. I have done 1.8g dry and had a level 4 ish time.

As for the comparison, it seems to me that oral DMT will allow a person to delve deeper than with shrooms. Because of the extra compounds and general nature of shrooms, I always feel off balance and at times completely insane with high amounts of mushrooms. From what I can tell, DMT doesn't seem to do this. I will say, I have yet to do a full on aya journey yet, so I may eat my words. I am just speaking from everything I have read.