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The possible dangers of ingesting Research Chemicals. Options
 
christian
#1 Posted : 9/26/2012 10:34:49 AM

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This is an interesting video that explains how Heroin addicts were unwittingly sold a research chemical instead. Under normal circumstances the chemical would have produced similar effects, however it was synthed badly and produced a toxin...

http://www.youtube.com/w...ature=player_detailpage

Just thought it may serve to remind people of the possible dangers of ingesting research chemicals made in many "batches", where quality control may in fact be "out of the window".

Please watch the entire video, because there were some VERY interesting discoveries made.Wink

Moving on, here is a link to a report on "bath salts". It's interesting how they explain that this mix of research chemicals seriously affect brain chemistry for prolonged periods of time leaving the user in a "questionable mental state". The research chemical, MDPV, is also shown to have what appears to have a "hook" on it's chemical structure which may indicate that once it attaches, it "never let's go". This not only indicates the dangers of mixing Research chemicals, but also those that appear in ones taken on their own. It's a pity that this information is only known now, that those research chemicals have been studied for their negative effects which at the time were thought to be non existent by users, hence allowing their mass sales, as is the case with the rest of them sold today. Shocked

Certainly something to have a serious think about, after all their safety profile is unknown:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/multimedia/bath-salts/
"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 

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Purges
#2 Posted : 9/26/2012 12:17:09 PM

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Thanks, will check it out Smile

Edit: Ah yes, I have heard of these cases, but not in depth like this. Certainly is some scary stuff Neutral This is why I tend to go for tried and tested substances OR go for plants / plant based drugs - but even then there is no guarantee of safety. Caution is key with any drugs. Not something I have always exercised Mad
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endlessness
#3 Posted : 9/26/2012 1:02:21 PM

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Thank you for bringing attention to the potential risks of research chemicals, it's one subject we should definitely bring up here. But it's important not to go into misleading sensationalism. There is really no sense to say MDPV has a "hook structure which never lets go". It does tend to lead into addictive behavior due to it's pharmacology like other stimulants, acting in norepinephrine and dopamine. Research seems to show it is first metabolized by CYP450 and later it is glucoronized or sulphated and then excreted (Strano-Rossi et al 2010; Joshua et al 2010)


In any case, I think it would be interesting to talk a bit more about these substances here.

Here's a few characteristics about the general safety of Research Chemicals.


  • Particularly the newer Research Chemicals (as opposed to for example 2CB) have only a very recent history of human usage. There may be several side-effects we are not aware of, short and long term. Even if it does not seem at first hand that there aren't any problems, it may be the problems are unnoticed and appear with mid/long term use. Please specially avoid regular dosing and re-dosing, as well as very high doses of research chemicals.

  • Buying from any RC supplier is risky. Consider the case of the owner of a RC chemical company who died from a mislabelled batch. If even the owner of companies are not free from risk, what does that say to the normal buyers? Even if a RC chemical supplier is known to have a good track record, how to know they wont accidentally mislabel the next batch? There is no quality control

  • Because of the reason above, we do not consider that sharing good experiences with RC chem suppliers is a safe practice. One safe purchase does not guarantee the next safe purchase. In any case for harm reduction sake, we point out a couple of links regarding test kits and analysis of RC, such as the Analysis Subforum stickies.

  • Often Research Chemicals and "Legal Highs" sold as if they are a legal substance contain illegal substances that the user doesn't know due to mislabelling, untold impurities or contaminations, and therefore may pose a risk to the buyer.

  • If you anyways decide to take RC inspite of risks, please start with microdoses, a dose at least 10x smaller than the normal stated dosage, and raise slowly over next sessions, stopping if theres any negative effects. This way you see if maybe you dont have a particular sensitivity to the substance, as well as help preventing problems from mislabelled batches.

  • Do not ever attempt to eyeball/estimate RC dosages. A couple of milligrams can be the difference of an appropriate experience or a dangerous overdose depending on the substance. Get an accurate milligram scale!



Other specific information and publications regarding research chemicals:

General:

Legal Highs Report by NEWIP
http://www.google.es/url...VWx5yfui3ig&cad=rja

A chemical analysis examining the pharmacology of novel psychoactive substances freely available over the internet and their impact on public (ill)health. Legal highs or illegal highs?
http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/4/e000977.full

EMCDDA 2011 Legal Highs report
http://drugscope.us1.lis...f3b53f&e=22019aa553


Cathinones:

Mephedrone may cause memory loss (research with rats, not necessarily generalizable but keep an eye out)
http://www.news-medical....-cause-memory-loss.aspx


Ill keep attaching more publications here in the future. Feel free to ask any question regarding Research Chemicals and "Legal Highs" since I've been working with a harm reduction organization and this is one of the "hot topics" we always come across.
 
christian
#4 Posted : 9/26/2012 1:23:28 PM

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endlessness wrote:
Thank you for bringing attention to the potential risks of research chemicals, but it's important not to go into misleading sensationalism.

There is really no sense regarding what you said about the "hook structure which never lets go" in MDPV.


Thanks also Endlessness. I was quoting what the scientists where saying about MDPV on the "baths salts" link i posted. I guess they had to find some sensationalist title to get pples attention, as they usually do. Wink
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DeMenTed
#5 Posted : 9/26/2012 1:34:05 PM

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Bath salts, party highs whatever you want to call them is one thing i would never trust! They don't even tell you the ingredients in most of them.

The only vendors i use for research chemicals which at the moment are aMT, 25-x nbome and etizolam, are ones that i have personally spoken with. They also test their batches themselves before distributing them to their customers and if somethings wrong they don't punt them on.

Yeah be careful with rc's as they can be very dangerous just like mis identification of plants etc. Drugs like dmt that have a great safety profile have been known to be involved with deaths and stuff also.

Educate yourself and be careful people.
 
christian
#6 Posted : 9/26/2012 2:20:13 PM

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DeMenTed wrote:
Bath salts, party highs whatever you want to call them is one thing i would never trust! They don't even tell you the ingredients in most of them.

The only vendors i use for research chemicals which at the moment are aMT, 25-x nbome and etizolam, are ones that i have personally spoken with. They also test their batches themselves before distributing them to their customers and if somethings wrong they don't punt them on.


Demented, i hope you followed the video and links i posted. Endlessness also has said that there is no quality control regardless of how amazing you think your vendor is. Don't be fooled into thinking that after 1 safe transaction, the next one will be, as he has already stated, accidents do happen.

Bath salts were simply a mix of cathinone drugs, and when the cathinones were sold legally people were mixing them up anyhow, like they do with their sessions anyhow. Just look at some of the daft trip reports posted on these RC forums, where it's all about getting smashed and off your face, and combining different stuff like they know what they are doing?? :Surprised ... Yea, i can see some real charachter building and learning going on there!!, hahaha!!! Stop

"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
DeMenTed
#7 Posted : 9/26/2012 2:48:45 PM

Barry


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I haven't watched the video yet no but i will later in the evening.

What's wrong with getting off your tits? Why do you need to character build all the time? Iam who iam. I try and learn along every step of my life but sometimes i also like to say fuck it, lets do this and just have an animalistic wild night. Is that wrong?

Many a time years ago when another research chemical was doing the rounds (mdma) i was absolutely smashed having the best time of my life dancing like a madman to gabba techno, i didn't learn much from those experiences but i sure as hell enjoyed them.

I'm all for safety and the last thing i want is people dying on drugs. As endlessness also said, always allergy test and work yourcway up with doses and when you know the chemical is what you thought it is then you can either do some character building or get off your tits Pleased
 
christian
#8 Posted : 9/26/2012 2:54:03 PM

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DeMenTed wrote:
and when you know the chemical is what you thought it is then you can either do some character building or get off your tits Pleased



...Of course assuming that the vendor in question actually put the right one in the baggie he sent you. Embarrased

Cheers "Eric"! Twisted Evil
"Eat your vegetables and do as you're told, or you won't be going to the funfair!"
 
DeMenTed
#9 Posted : 9/26/2012 2:56:03 PM

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yep that's why i allerg test and start with small doses Smile

Thanks for starting this thread btw, i hope people learn from it Smile
 
soulfood
#10 Posted : 9/26/2012 3:07:10 PM

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Earlier this year before I gave up on RC's, I had a last time shag kind of weekend with substances I'd allergy tested, worked up a dose with and had experience with before.

Come Sunday evening my lower left lip had swollen so large it was in my left nostril. Didn't go down for a week. No one knew what the hell it was.

But anyway I won't do that again.

If you insist on doing RC's, certainly don't mix them carelessly. It's very embarassing.!

Also it could have been just one substance that caused the reaction, but because of the mixing I have no way of knowing that and now must avoid all the substances I took to be sure it doesn't happen again and a couple of them were useful.
 
mew
#11 Posted : 9/26/2012 3:21:34 PM

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great video, good topic. i hope people pay more attention to testing substances before dosing
 
Korey
#12 Posted : 9/29/2012 6:47:42 AM

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I'd think the first rule of thumb is to never purchase unidentifiable drugs from sources like "your local headshop."

Secondly, any drug user who decides to purchase unscheduled or quasi-legal compounds from vendors, and is NOT testing their packages contents to confirm the presence or absence of the desired compound or compounds, and THEN ingests the material ignorant of its properties is extremely reckless and in my opinion a prime candidate for this years Darwin Award.

It seems the public isn't ready for the cathinones and phenethylamines that have been in question in the media the past decade, more recently cathinones found in bath salts and the NBOMe(s), perhaps they should remain in the lab for now so we can study their mechanism of actions and their interaction with the brain. Documented ignorant use of these compounds not only demonizes all drugs(God forbid John Q public ever blames the individual for his behavior, it always seems to be the drugs fault), but threatens the actual research of these compounds which can be EXTREMELY helpful when it comes to understanding the brain.
“The most compelling insight of that day was that this awesome recall had been brought about by a fraction of a gram of a white solid, but that in no way whatsoever could it be argued that these memories had been contained within the white solid. Everything I had recognized came from the depths of my memory and my psyche. I understood that our entire universe is contained in the mind and the spirit. We may choose not to find access to it, we may even deny its existence, but it is indeed there inside us, and there are chemicals that can catalyze its availability.”
 
 
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