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N-oxide questions Options
 
Du57mi73
#1 Posted : 7/6/2012 11:43:17 AM

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So I was curious about a few things mostly concerning dmt n-oxide. There's not much out there that I could find about it and was curious if anyone had some chemistry knowledge that would help.

tek stats: stb tek was used. used mhrb, powdered. lye. vm&p naptha.

So, an extraction was being done. it has been done numerous times before. someone using a hot water bath and a fan simultaneously, as it neared drying he realized that his entire yield had turned to n-oxide. oh boy. Or atleast what was thought to be n-oxide, and if y'all could answer some questions id love to know the answers. Smile

I hear n-oxide isn't soluble in naptha and is in water. But when the yeild was attempted to be collected it didn't ever "absorb" into the water. It stayed looking like oil blobs in water that floated. When naptha was added to see if it would absorb in that it seemed to absorb almost all of it. What didn't absorb into the naptha is what was scrubbed off the side of the pan with water in the pan. That was done because the naptha wasn't absorbing it. It was like the supposed n-oxide was soluble in water but not miscable in water, if you understand what I'm saying.

So the yellow naptha and the clear water were then combined in a large jar. They were vigorously shaken and let settle multiple times. Eventually all of the yellow stayed in the naptha. A sufficient amount of HCl was added to acidify the water in the jar. It was vigorously shook and let settle a few more times. The naptha was then siphoned off and dried to ensure there was no dmt left in it(currently in the process).

Now for the questions. Haha.
1st. Does the yellow goo discribed sound like n-oxide?
2nd. What color would the water be if n-oxide was in it?
3rd. Were proper steps taken to ensure that ALL the dmt of all forms are in the water?
4th. Does dmt n-oxide freebase turn into dmt n-oxide hcl when in a hcl aqueous solution?
5th. All that would need to be done is add zinc, agitate, basify, and pull with a solvent(and maybe strain, ive never used the zinc before) to form incredibly pure crystals. right?
6th. If dmt n-oxide actually is water soluble then wouldnt that be a great way to defat without using any acids?
7th. Is the acidified water an okay way to store the dmt n-oxide/dmt hcl until zinc is added in a week or so?

sorry if it seems like alot. im not new to extracting, as one could probably tell, i would just like to double check the method used as it is one that was improvised. thank you so much. Smile
"I am cursed by the blossoming knowledge of my feminine ideal and she looks suspiciously like you."

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." -AE
 

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endlessness
#2 Posted : 7/6/2012 11:47:08 AM

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No, its probably not N-oxide but rather DMT that didnt crystallize, since it dissolved in the naphtha. Often it happens that DMT stays as an oil, until you scrape and re-scrape it a few times and insist on letting it air dry for some minutes/hours, and then it hardens up.

Next time you can probably just either insist on having it crystallize as mentioned above, or recrystallize and freeze it.
 
Du57mi73
#3 Posted : 7/6/2012 5:51:49 PM

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Here's the issue that I'm. Having. Considering the naptha with everything in it was mixed with hcl, shouldn't it be in salt form now in the water? The naptha was attempted to be dried but was left with almost the exact same goo at the end of drying. I can understand how it couldn't be noxide. Considering it absorbed back into the naptha, but why wouldn't the hcl take all the dmt out of the naptha? I'm pretty sure my pan is still filled with dmt grease. I can try reabsorbing it in naptha again and salting it more, maybe I didn't add enough hcl to make it all water soluble. I can take a picture of what is left in my pan. Its about 4 fl oz of goo.

I forgot to mention, I know for a fact all my materials are reliable and have yeilded wonderful crystals before using the exact same materials..

Endless, you suggested reabsorption and recrystallization. But I think I just tried to and it didn't work right. Should I use IPA to absorb what's in the pan now, redry with that then try naptha recrystallization again after that?
"I am cursed by the blossoming knowledge of my feminine ideal and she looks suspiciously like you."

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." -AE
 
endlessness
#4 Posted : 7/6/2012 7:56:22 PM

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HCl water would most definitely have absorbed DMT, DMT N-Oxide and any alkaloid, really.

If you used HCl, you need to freebase it again because your alkaloids are in the acidic water, and if you just evaporated it, the alkaloids in salt form wont be absorbed by naphtha. So either base the HCl water with NaOH and pull again with naphtha, or evaporate it and dry mix with sodium carb and a bit of water and pull with naphtha. Then evap or freeze that.

Forget what was left in the naphtha after you salted with HCl, your alkaloids are not there, specially if you salted twice or so

What do you mean it "didnt work right", please explain exactly what you did.
 
Du57mi73
#5 Posted : 7/6/2012 9:36:12 PM

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In the OP i stated I cleaned the pan after the HWB with both naptha and water and then combined and salted. I then siphoned the naptha and dried it. What was left was almost the same amount of goo and color/consistancy as after the HWB. it also smelled quite a bit like dmt still. I figured the dmt was still in it even though I know the dmt was salted and is in the water. I dunno, just second guessing myself I suppose. So you're telling me that dmt n-oxide absorbs into water clear? And all that's in the pan is the oils from the plant? That's a lot of friggin oils. There's almost enough to use it in my deep fat frier. Haha. I guess ill figure out how it went when zinc is added then basified. But do you think zinc will even be needed?
"I am cursed by the blossoming knowledge of my feminine ideal and she looks suspiciously like you."

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." -AE
 
endlessness
#6 Posted : 7/6/2012 10:22:36 PM

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Well if you salted only once, maybe there's still a bit of DMT there.. You can always try running some warm naphtha and freezing to see if anything comes off, but I would bet most your DMT is in the acidic layer.

As I mentioned before, I think it was never N-oxide to begin with so I dont see the point in using zinc but if you're in the mood for experimenting, you can always divide your HCl salts in 2 equal parts, half use the zinc and half not, base both and pull with equal amounts of solvent. Then you'll see the difference Smile

Let us know how it goes !
 
Du57mi73
#7 Posted : 7/7/2012 4:26:53 AM

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Ahhhh. So here's the good news and the bad news.

Good news is that I found out that there was still some dmt left in the goo. After I fully evaporated the goo the second time I used IPA like I said. It fully absorbed everything in the pan. I am attemping to dry it now. I used 97%. Almost all the alcohol is gone but the water is left. I was excited to see a pan full of crystals.

So! Bad news is that I have to fully let the ipa solution dissolve before doing anything because I don't want alcohol to get mixed into my naptha/water step. Once its fulllly dry(Alcohol/water free) I will reabsorb in naptha salt again with more water/hcl and be legit.

Another good news is that I don't think I have any/much n-oxide in this.

I'm in pretty good shape now I think. Thanks for helping me brainstorm.


Edit: the idea of doing half and half with the zinc is a very smart idea. But I know how much my yeild should be, I'm gonna resalt, basify, and pull all I can. If its reasonably close to my expected then ill call it a day. If I seemingly lost a very large amount then I will do I zinc scrub on the salted water. Thanks a ton!
"I am cursed by the blossoming knowledge of my feminine ideal and she looks suspiciously like you."

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." -AE
 
 
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