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Ayahuasca vs. Changa Options
#1 Posted : 4/12/2010 7:42:57 AM

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This subject is not intended to start a war about which is better, but, to compare and contrast the subtle differences and nuances of each. This has been a hot topic on my mind.

There is definitely so much smoking vs. drinking talk, too, so I want to share my experiences. The two, in my opinion, are equally necessary. They both have advantages and drawbacks. They both push evolution in different ways.

I am utterly sworn to Ayahuasca. She saved my life and my soul. I worked vehemently and exclusively with her for two years, before the world of changa opened up to me. I am in love with Aya. She loves me. When I don't drink, I feel a sadness in my heart. I feel her calling, feel her telling me that she loves me and asks why I am not in her arms tonight. She recycled all the emotional baggage I carried my whole life and reintegrated my lost self back into the world with a creative, positive, innovative, and inspired sense of purpose that has resulted in much help to humans and planet.

When I make changa, I invite the spirit of Aya. I've stirred and poked around extractions while fully under the influence of Ayahuasca (after she permitted me movement and her lessons and adjustments were done), and have had some AMAZING communications with Mimosa bark. The spirit of Mimosa loves the attention and wants to teach humans who will respectfully listen. Mimosa has a hell of a personality (but I would have never noticed without Aya, so catch 22).

On Christmas Eve, when I began my extractions, I also had the holidays off and wanted to dedicate them completely to spiritual endeavors (which, I did, I even broke my foot so I was literally on house arrest and had nowhere to travel BUT the bardo). An interesting experience with Aya happened.

I can say now, that when I smoke DMT, the first ignition propels me through a kind of "ring of pass not," beyond which all the great teachings lie. This ring pissed me off initially, because in the beginning, I would get stuck in it and not blast through: it is like an orbit. Blasting through the orbit always includes "getting attacked by geometry," lots of fractalesque visuals (Alex Grey's Bardobeing?), extreme dislocation from body, buzzing, a kind of being overwhelmed that can only be navigated by breath. The first is always the most senseless and abstract voyage, in breaking the initial barrier. Undoubtedly, methodically, reliably, my first changa smoke always puts me through some degree of this experience. I tried my best to describe it, so hopefully everyone can relate.

This Ayahuasca experience was interesting, because I felt she said to me, "Do you REALLY want to see hyperspace? Do you want to go further? Little monkey? Twisted Evil Are you ready?" What I experienced was literally that extent of smoked-DMT dissolution, for about 4-5 hours, nonstop. Not, "intense visuals and stoned body load, oh shit, there's a jaguar, but I think he will let me crawl to the bathroom, I should be careful not to randomly topple against the wall," this was PURE HYPERSPACE. Mama took me there and left me out to dry to let me know who was really in charge, and what to expect. On the comedown, I spoke in tongues.

This was all wildly significant to me. Also, of all Ayahuasca admixtures possible, Mimosa always seemed to jive with me the best. I have the deepest and longest relationship with Mimosa, so it seems fitting that I started to make the changa with that plant. (Even if I can have my own completely sustainable patch of Phlaris, I love Mimosa and will always commune.)

Blah blah blah. After ~70 changa journeys since then, I've arrived at some interesting observations about the relationship of the two together in a path of spiritual growth.

Ayahuasca tea works from the ground up. All of my Aya experiences have started with the root and push energy UP. Kundalini moves from the root to the heart, from the root to the head. The wisdom of the earth is channeled up through the body and eventually blossoms through one's entirety, healing the body, opening the heart, and then illuminating the mind. With Ayahuasca, the Earth is an extension of my body: trees, plants, animals, sky, are all an extension of me, and I am a part of the earth.

Changa works from the crown down. Kundalini starts at the crown and travels down the spine, channeling cosmic wisdom of spirits first into the mind, then into the heart, and finally, through the body. I think this is why one is less likely to purge with changa, if purging for spiritual reasons (*I had some dry heaving after intense emotional stress, which is usually the only cause to make me purge with the tea). The magic starts with the mind, and the body is the final destination. With changa, my body is only a byproduct of the mind: physical states--which I am exploring in great depth with yoga--can be COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED through transforming the mind. Heal the mind, release the mind, and the body *absolutely* follows, as it is a holographic extension of the mind.

After a cosmically euphoric afternoon of bathing in sunlight while surfing the eighth dimension, I distinctly received the message, the changa straight up TOLD ME, that it could do NO FURTHER WORK and its effects would be incomplete without the presence of the tea--flash forward to intense visions of the spirit of Ayahuasca inside my body working on my DNA. I try to always have a bit of Caapi tea before changa, if not smoking after a fullblown Aya session. Mama Aya possesses the strength to hold back the veil for an extended period of time while changa does its work.

As much as I love traveling to the underworld, with a particularly strong tea, sometimes, the morning after, yes, I am happy to be home, but I find myself on earth again, six feet under. I feel like, the next day, I have to dig my way out with my bare hands, and who wants to do much of anything besides absolutely rest and reflect after such an experience? I am not complaining, but sometimes it is extremely solemn and I feel very withdrawn.

*Smoking changa at the beginning of an Ayahuasca session chases the spirit of Aya away. I do not receive her teachings, only the changa's teachings.

*Smoking changa at the END of an Ayahuasca session invites the clouds to descend upon a clear body and mind: the mixing of yin and yang energies is like warm rain falling on a fertile earth, and at the end, I am always energized. Changa seems to pull the energy in an opposite direction, and 100% of the time obliterates the overly withdrawn, "uggghh, physical body is such a heavy thing for spirit to drag around" kind of feeling that sometimes comes the morning/day after a strong dose of purgative Aya that involves straddling dimensions.

The two HIGHLY compliment each other.

(I have no idea what smoking changa at the peak of an Ayahuasca session is like, because during the peak of a great tea, I tend to get so immobilized that if I tilt my head 45 degrees to the wrong side, I will projectile vomit a scourge of bile.)

Aya has connected me to the earth and cleared a lifetime of deep childhood trauma (abuse, neglect, etc.) that changa does not seem to address as directly. (Though I am emotionally much clearer now than when I began work with Aya.)

Changa seems to foster a kind of neuroplasticity that I have not experienced as frequently with Ayahuasca. I have spoken in tongues with Ayahuasca, which I experienced as a complete dissolution of some of kind pattern/schema/program in my mind: but I experience this regularly in the afterglow, repeatedly, with changa. Perhaps the non-body-stoning effects of changa simply allow me to explore plasticity more clearly: I have had some amazing experiences with yoga, guitar, and song, to name a few. (*Interesting to note the yoga poses that revealed themselves to me are all specifically geared to open the crown, or a byproduct of an open crown.)

Both help problem solving and cognition equally. They seem like a fantastic balance of up and down. Both are sacred, precious, unique, and irreplaceable. I highly recommend exploring them together.

Love. <3
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#2 Posted : 4/12/2010 3:27:06 PM

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Wow.. an amazing thread.

Lots of good info here.

Thank you Smile
#3 Posted : 4/12/2010 3:44:11 PM

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Thank you so much for sharing this, ms_manic_minxx! This post has such a high density of valuable information. SWIM will be keeping in mind your findings as she eases her way back into working with the vine.

Be cool, be well.
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#4 Posted : 4/12/2010 9:32:04 PM

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I am going to begin work with a mimosa and vine combination in the next few weeks. Thank you for all of these insights, and such beautiful writing.
"...I didn't know that Cheshire cats always grinned; in fact, I didn't know that cats could grin..." - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
#5 Posted : 4/12/2010 9:50:08 PM
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Thank you for all of that information! I will relay the positive report on your use of changa after an ayahuasca peak to my friends who do that sort of thing.
#6 Posted : 4/13/2010 5:22:06 AM

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Ahahahah!! I had no idea my insane ramblings were so adhesive!!

Glad people are finding this useful. Does anyone have any similar thoughts... or dissimilar thoughts? Cool I will continue to share more as work continues... the two are simply fascinating.

Oh yes. And if anyone ever gets the opportunity, Caapi tea followed by changa, outdoors, while a good friend plays the rainstick, is an ultimate synergy. Twisted Evil
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#7 Posted : 4/13/2010 7:06:56 AM

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That is wonderful, SWIM would really like to post that on the changa site... with permission of coarse...
I think it is important to say too that SWIM thinks that these sorts of experiences are very much based on the personal relational dynamic. SWIM can relate to much of what your saying but some of it is the opposite for swim.
SWIM agrees that drinking tea has a very somatic healing focus, with cathartic undertones... but swim has also noticed that swim can bring up this same sort of healing with changa... and has... swim has also learned from tea that swim can avoid all of that somatic processing by just working out ones chi, prana ect... energy work basically... works just as fine... this is harder to do with tea but tea taught swim to do it that way... and with changa it is much easier to do it that way and swim does not have to deal with the stoning state of the tea... which drives swim nuts.

SWIM thinks is all depends on how you work with it and how it works with you.
I was just reading an book of interviews by san pedro shamans tonight... and its amazing how different their relationships are with the medicine, how they work and how it works with them is so individually different.

oh! and hey you mentioned you had a sustainable patch of phalaris! are you working with that successfully? if so whats your process BTW?

sounds like you have really worked wonders with the medicines.
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Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/

#8 Posted : 4/13/2010 7:11:44 AM

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swim has been wondering about a low dose caapi leaf sublingual extract... just like the sublingual salvia they sell. Take the leaf make a tincture and then hold it under your tounge... viola... wait to feel effects... then smoke changa...
The leaf is the really unique part swim thinks... with there being no harmaline.
One can evap the caapi tincture down too adding a little of alcohol to it at the end.
Dorge is cooperatively owned and cooperatively run by various hyperspacial entities working as a collabertive sentience project for the betterment of sentient exploration.

Offical Changa web sitehttp://changa.esotericpharma.org/

#9 Posted : 7/12/2010 3:40:12 AM

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yes ms that was indeed and interesting read about the aya and changa and using it after the aya.........i never tried or heard of changa until i started reading threads on this forum

the shamans we worked with told us NOT to smoke marijuana even two weeks before and two weeks after the ayahuasca ceremonies.........so i quit and followed the diet given which was no sugar absolutely no red meat no alcohol and a list of other stuff and two days prior to the ceremonies i was advised not to have sex either.....which i obeyed as i wanted the aya experience to be all it could be and i prepared as directed....i put my trust in aya as well i think she won't give me more than i could handle yet somehow she knows amazingly exactly where to go and what i need........i'd love to get opportunity to work more with that medicine....i'm trying to save up to go back and do the deep jungle solitary ceremonies where we would be basically on our own with the brew and the raw jungle and nature...
thanks for sharing your findingsCool
#10 Posted : 10/13/2011 4:14:18 AM

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I'm very interested in you yoga practice. How long have you been practicing and what resources did you obtain your knowledge from?

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#11 Posted : 3/3/2012 11:17:55 AM

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that was a fantastic read mate, thanks for posting. i am yet to try ayahuasca. at the end of the year i am headed to the amazon to experience the sacrament in the company of a shaman. I have been using changa for roughly 6 months now, and hold it very close to my heart. What you said about changa starting at the mind and working to the body towards the end of the experience really rings true to me. I am not really sure how to define speaking in tounges .. although sometimes coming out of hyperspace with changa i find myself speaking a very fluent language.. like the sounds that are projected by the spirits during the experience

thanks for the post Smile
#12 Posted : 4/7/2012 2:32:23 AM


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much like how you describe smoking changa during the comedown of aya, smoking changa late into cactus/mescaline has been a powerfully beautiful experience. its always so inviting to be so centered and absent of fear, at that point youve already worked out all of your energetic kinks and may desire to dive again into dissolution of linear experience.

ive always loved this combo and thought i ought to share. smoking at the beginning however is not something ive tried, i focus on the cactus as i fast for it and am so focused i cannot help but stay that way until the effects begin to diminish.
ive heard of people smoking 5meo on acid and it sort of putting a distinguishable thumbprint on the entire trip as a result. a bit of a stretch, but i see that as a likeness to your understanding that if changa is smoked first before aya then changa is the main voice.

peace and light
#13 Posted : 4/18/2012 10:46:27 AM

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As usual, an incredibly honest, deep and informative post, Minxx!! Thank you!!

I wish I had as much time for self exploration in my life though... I have to make do with 2 child free evenings a month and need to maintain some energy for them. FML Pleased
#14 Posted : 4/18/2012 3:54:45 PM

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#15 Posted : 5/7/2012 12:24:38 AM

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what a great post and great amount of info. swim love the aya and changa combination and agrees that it is best at the end of the aya experience. swim has tried it at the beginning and peak and has found that at the beginning takes away from your aya experience and that at the peak is an extremely powerful and intense experience. would recommend trying it at the peak to anyone who is willing to "go there" but be ready for reaching the final frontier of hyperspace as swim and his friends called it. Thumbs up
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#16 Posted : 6/7/2012 11:41:21 PM


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Wow, really great and informative read Ms MM. Definately will be back to re-read this again.
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#17 Posted : 6/8/2012 12:27:43 PM

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ms_manic_minxx wrote:
This Ayahuasca experience was interesting, because I felt she said to me, "Do you REALLY want to see hyperspace? Do you want to go further? Little monkey? Twisted Evil Are you ready?" What I experienced was literally that extent of smoked-DMT dissolution, for about 4-5 hours, nonstop. On the comedown, I spoke in tongues.Love. <3

Hello Minxx. Thanks for the fantastic report, although the above i don't understand. You are talking about an Aya trip, but i don't see any mention where you did the Changa. Can you please clarify?

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#18 Posted : 6/8/2012 4:57:13 PM

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she drank ayahuasca and then smoked changa at the start.
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#19 Posted : 6/9/2012 10:01:41 AM


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Wow this is an excellent thread, nice work
heaps of info here. I appreciate your input Smile
#20 Posted : 6/9/2012 10:16:19 AM

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jamie wrote:
she drank ayahuasca and then smoked changa at the start.

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