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Poorly understood family of AYAHUASCA vines Options
 
Entropymancer
#161 Posted : 6/7/2012 10:34:25 PM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:
My only critique of your post (if you could call it that) would be the use of the plant list for nomenclature. It's not necessarily a bad resource to check for the existence of a name and associated authors...but its synonymy is in error in a lot of places and I’m not 100% sure of how up to date or “correct” (to whatever degree any endeavor to map nature can be) the overall database is.

The International Plant Names Index (IPNI) draws its records from Index Kewensis (maintained by Kew Gardens in England), the Gray Cards Index (maintained by the folks at Harvard’s Gray Herbarium) and the Australian Plant Names Index (which I know nothing about and is somewhat less relevant to the species being discussed in this thread). The plant list actually links to IPNI for “full publication details”. Just thought I’d share this invaluable resource, as it is (afaik) considered the standard for nomenclatural records within the botanical community.


Good to know! For the record, the typed lists of synonyms came from the relevant papers (Anderson 2006 for Alicia and Johnson 1986 for Callaeum), so hopefully those don't contain any errors. I just linked to the plant list since it was the first resource that popped up in my search. I'll try using IPNI in the future... although at a glance, it seems to have its limitations as well. When I search "Cabi paraensis", it shows a record referencing the original description, but doesn't mention that it's an outdated synonym. Is there a way to search for synonymy? Or does IPNI just not regard the identification Cabi paraensis with C. antifebrile/B. antifebrilis as being confirmed?
 

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Entropymancer
#162 Posted : 6/7/2012 10:46:46 PM

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endlessness wrote:
I will post the Tetrapterys methystica peaks too at some point, but I first want to make a more concentrated solution to re-analyse. So also keep in mind the importance of plants related to the Tetrapterys species and chemical information because it will help us out in the near future Smile


Looking at the phylogenetic tree from Davis et al. 2002 (referenced above), it looks like Tetrapterys split from its closest relatives about 30 million years ago. The branch that it split from includes the Alicia-Callaeum-Malpighiodes clade, so we're basically looking at the same cluster of related genera for both. Other genera on that branch include Niedenzuella, Carolus, and Heteropterys. Niedenzuella and Carolus were recently split from Mascagnia; see Anderson 2006 for details (including older species names that you're more likely to encounter in the literature).
 
SnozzleBerry
#163 Posted : 6/7/2012 11:34:33 PM

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Entropymancer wrote:
I'll try using IPNI in the future... although at a glance, it seems to have its limitations as well. When I search "Cabi paraensis", it shows a record referencing the original description, but doesn't mention that it's an outdated synonym. Is there a way to search for synonymy? Or does IPNI just not regard the identification Cabi paraensis with C. antifebrile/B. antifebrilis as being confirmed?

Oops, I forgot to mention this Embarrased

Synonymy is IPNI's failing...it doesn't comment on whether a name is an accepted name or in synonymy, it's solely a database for all published names. From the homepage:
Quote:
IPNI does not have information on what are currently accepted names and what are taxonomic (i.e. heterotypic) synonyms. Find this information in floras, monographs, checklists, revisions etc.


But, all is not lost, seeing as we are dealing with species from the new world tropics Smile

TROPICOS is a database created and maintained by the Missouri Botanical Gardens. MBG is the institution behind the botanical journals 'Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden' and 'Novon' and is also the institution that published many of the original monographs of the plants we are discussing here (such as Ruiz and Pavon's Flora Peruviana). Their records are also considered to be on the same level as IPNI's and are probably more conducive to the research we are doing.

After you do a search on a given taxon, there should be tabs for synonymy and accepted names (depending on the name entered) that give authors and publications. Thanks for reminding me of that...I had completely forgotten about it.
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SnozzleBerry
#164 Posted : 6/8/2012 3:07:59 PM

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Entropymancer wrote:

The genus Malpighiodes is another that was split from Mascagnia in 2006. It contains four species: M. bracteosa, M. guianensis, M. leucanthele, and M. liesneri. I haven't yet searched the literature for these names (or their botanical synonyms) to see if any chemical analysis or ethnomedicinal uses have been reported. I would encourage anyone with the spare time to do so.


So, after searching on these names and the synonyms provided by TROPICOS, the only articles that I was able to locate that contained either the names or their synonyms were the 2006 paper by Anderson, another paper by Anderson dealing solely with taxonomy and a paper by Davis and others dealing with the phytogeography of the family Malpighiaceae.

I can look into Niedenzuella, Carolus, and Heteropterys over the weekend. Fwiw, I’ve just been using Google scholar as I’m fairly certain that all of the institutions publishing related material are indexed/crawled by it (I’m almost 100% certain all of the botanical literature is indexed, but I don’t know about the chemistry literature). Are there any other databases or specific publications/organizations you would recommend searching?

EDIT: Just ran all the names/synonyms through pubchem as well…no results for chemical compounds/analysis. However, it appears that the family, Malpighiaceae, has had a number of DNA studies done on it, including these specific names. So perhaps there will be relevant information if/when we try to run DNA analysis.
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Entropymancer
#165 Posted : 6/10/2012 7:35:39 AM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:
I can look into Niedenzuella, Carolus, and Heteropterys over the weekend. Fwiw, I’ve just been using Google scholar as I’m fairly certain that all of the institutions publishing related material are indexed/crawled by it (I’m almost 100% certain all of the botanical literature is indexed, but I don’t know about the chemistry literature). Are there any other databases or specific publications/organizations you would recommend searching?


Google scholar indexes all contemporary chemical literature. Its shortcoming (for chemistry, botany, and any other discipline) is that old literature often hasn't been digitized for indexing. The only solution that I've found is to crawl through the citations in more recent literature to see what older sources they cite, then follow the citations from those older sources, etc. Kind of a pain. Botanicus.org has scanned a lot of the old botanical literature (I've found their archive of the Harvard University Botanical Museum Leaflets especially useful), but it still can't be searched... and I haven't yet found a comparable resource for old chemical literature.
 
Entropymancer
#166 Posted : 6/10/2012 7:39:06 AM

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A follow-up on Callaeum antifebrile

Apparently my summary above wasn’t just "scratching the surface"; I have found little additional information in the literature beyond what was presented in that post.

As mentioned above, Callaeum antifebrile is used in folk medicine as a febrifuge and seems to be associated with B. caapi. I've seen several claims that it is used as a hallucinogen (e.g. Johnson 1986), but these claims all seem to refer to a 1943 report which says no such thing ("Both plants [B. caapi and C. antifebrile] are used in popular medicine and sorcery, but I do not know if the species I am now describing has any narcotic propriety" [emphasis added]; Ducke 1943). It is known by common names including bejuco de las calenturas (fever vine), agahuasca, ayahuasca negro, shillinto (a Peruvian term for ayahuasca), shillinto blanco, shillinto negro, caabi, and pajezinho (Johnson 1986; Coelho-Ferriera 2009).

Ducke wrote an additional paper (Ducke 1946) beyond the one I cited above, but Schultes (1982) references it only to mention that C. antifebrile was reported to be used as a folk medicine, but was not known to be used as a hallucinogen -- information that was already related in Ducke 1943. A more recent report surveying ethnomedicinal plants in Pará, Brazil (the same area studied by Ducke) supports the notion that it is not used for ayahuasca-like brews in that region, though a variety of other uses are specified. Bathing in an infusion of the plant is said to combat the evil eye, panemice (a curse or disease where the victim is afflicted by bad luck), headaches, or “thick blood.” The juice of the plant is used to treat gastritis, stomach ulcer, and skin eruptions. It may also be used to treat rheumatism, erysipelas (a skin infection), and stroke, and it may be employed when giving massages to pregnant women. (Coelho-Ferreira 2009)

In 1928, Niedenzu, a German expert on the Malpighiaceae, published some comments on herbarium specimens housed at the Berlin Herbarium. One collection from the Yarina Cocha in eastern Peru labeled “ayawasca” contained the leaves of C. antifebrile and the samaras of Banisteriopsis quitensis (B. quitensis is usually regarded as synonymous with B. caapi these days, although Niedenzu distinguished between the two). I have not acquired a copy of Niedenzu’s original paper (Niedenzu 1928A), but Schultes has commented on it in some detail (Schultes 1957; this paper gives a very valuable look at the early ethnobotanical research into the ayahuasca complex).

I have not yet acquired a copy of the paper that reported finding harmine in the plant (Mors & Zaltzman 1954), but references to it (Schultes 1982; Ott 1994) indicate that no other alkaloids were reported from the plant. There is another paper that I have not yet acquired relating to the pharmacology of the plant (Siqueira-Jaccoud 1959), but from the reference I found to it (Bristol 1966), it appears to report the presence of harmine, but no other alkaloids.

For the sake of completeness: Botanical descriptions can be found in Grisebach 1849, Niedenzu 1908, Niedenzu 1928B, Ducke 1943, Macbride 1950, Johnson 1986, Brako & Zarucchi 1993, Jørgensen & León-Yánez 1999, Jørgensen et al. 2012. Phylogenetic analysis can be found in Davis et al 2002.


Synonyms
Callaeum antifebrile (Ruiz ex Grisebach) D.M. Johnson
  • =Banisteria antifebrilis Ruiz ex Griseb.
  • =Cabi paraensis Ducke
  • =Mascagnia psilophylla var. antifebrilis (Griseb.) Nied.
  • =Mascagnia psilophylla f. peruviana Nied.



Bibliography
  • Brako, L. and J.L. Zarucchi. (eds.) 1993. Catalogue of the Flowering Plants and Gymnosperms of Peru. Monographs in Systematic Botany from the Missouri Botanical Garden 45: i–xl, 1–1286.
  • Bristol, M.L. 1966. The psychotropic Banisteriopsis among the Sibundoy of Colombia. Botanical Museum Leaflets Harvard University 21(5): 113-140.
  • Coelho-Ferreira, M. 2009. Medicinal knowledge and plant utilization in an Amazonian coastal community of Marudá, Pará State (Brazil). Journal of Ethnopharmacology 126(1): 159–175.
  • Davis, C.C., C.D. Bell, S. Mathews, and M.J. Donoghue. 2002. Laurasian migration explains Gondwanan disjunctions: Evidence from Malpighiaceae. PNAS 99(10): 6833–6837.
  • Ducke, A. 1943. O cabí do Pará. Arquivos do Servicio Forestal 2(1): 13-17.
  • Ducke, A. 1946. Plantas da cultura pre-Colombiana na Amazônia Brasileira. Boletin Técnico Instituto Agronomico do Norte 8: 5.
  • Grisebach, A.H.R. 1849. Beiträge zu einer Flora der Aequinoctial-Gegenden der neuen Welt. Linnaea 22: 15.
  • Jørgensen, P.M. and S. León-Yánez. (eds.) 1999. Catalogue of the vascular plants of Ecuador. Monographs in Systematic Botany from the Missouri Botanical Garden 75: i–viii, 1–1181
  • Jørgensen, P.M., M. Nee, and S.G. Beck. (eds.) 2012. Catálogo de las plantas vasculares de Bolivia. Monographs in Systematic Botany from the Missouri Botanical Garden
  • Macbride, J.F. 1950. Malpighiaceae, Flora of Peru. Publications of the Field Museum of Natural History, Botanical Series 13, Vol. 3(3): 781–871.
  • Mors, W.B. and Zaltzman, P. 1954. Sôbre o alkalóide de Banisteria caapi Spruce e do Cabi paraensis Ducke. Boletin de la Instituto Agronômico do Norte, Belém 34: 17.
  • Niedenzu, F.J. 1908. Arbeiten aus dem Botanischen Institut des Königl. Lyceums Hosianum in Braunsberg 3: 28.
  • Niedenzu, F.J. 1928A. Über die Stammpflanzen des Yageins. Pharmazeutische Zeitung 73: 141.
  • Niedenzu, F.J. 1928B. In Engler, H.G.A., Das Pflanzenreich 141(Heft 93): 121.
  • Ott, J. 1994. Ayahuasca Analogues: Pangæan Entheogens. Natural Products Co.: Kennewick, WA.
  • Schultes, R.E. 1957. The identity of the Malpighiaceous narcotics of South America. Botanical Museum Leaflets Harvard University 18(1): 1-56.
  • Schultes, R.E. 1982. The beta-carboline hallucinogens of South America. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 14(3): 205-220.
  • Siqueira-Jaccoud, R.J. 1959. Contribucão para o estudo farmacognóstico do Cabi paraensis Ducke, I. Revista Brasileira da Farmacia 40: 75.
 
SnozzleBerry
#167 Posted : 6/10/2012 2:33:16 PM

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Entropymancer wrote:
Google scholar indexes all contemporary chemical literature. Its shortcoming (for chemistry, botany, and any other discipline) is that old literature often hasn't been digitized for indexing. The only solution that I've found is to crawl through the citations in more recent literature to see what older sources they cite, then follow the citations from those older sources, etc. Kind of a pain. Botanicus.org has scanned a lot of the old botanical literature (I've found their archive of the Harvard University Botanical Museum Leaflets especially useful), but it still can't be searched... and I haven't yet found a comparable resource for old chemical literature.

Botanicus is great...I actually pulled Ruiz & Pavon's Flora Peruviana from there about a week ago. I'd also recommend the Biodiversity Heritage Library for finding/downloading old botanical literature. There's a lot of overlap between Botanicus/BHL, but imo, BHL has a more user friendly layout if you're using the in-site features, rather than downloading. I also think BHL may be more comprehensive, but don't hold me to that...I remember it finding things that Botanicus couldn't, but I can't remember if the opposite is also true.

Also, awesome follow-up post...I was scared I was doing something wrong, but there really does seem to be a dearth of information on these species. I came across some of the literature/descriptions you referenced over the past week as I've been attempting to compile a visual component for these species and it seems many of them have not been botanically sketched since their initial plates (unless you know differently?)...the old descriptions are rather enjoyable, if clearly a product of their time Smile

I still have to finish reviewing the genera posted above, but if those come up similarly empty, it looks like finding the MS data for the compounds in that other thread is the next step in figuring out whether these potentially unknown alkaloids have been described in the literature.
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Zaka
#168 Posted : 6/11/2012 3:00:08 AM
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Irie,
I knew there was something of interest with the Callaeum genus, that I had come across.
Check out the link "Shillinto negro" Callaeum psilophylla.....
Also in the same genus Callaeum reticulatum, which has seeds similar to some I saw alberto posted.....I think he suspected them to be Alicia macrodisca???
Respect,
Z



 
Zaka
#169 Posted : 6/14/2012 11:22:14 AM
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Irie,
I see that kiwi has up-dated his site....
I have found a couple of items that I'm unsure they have ID'd correctly.
First one is their Alicia macrodisca....
Secondly their Heteropterys orinocensis ....
Also their Petiveria alliacia leaf is not looking right either...
IMHO
Maybe it should be mansoa alliacea???

Good photos of flowers and seeds....

Respect,
Z
 
Zaka
#170 Posted : 6/15/2012 3:06:53 AM
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Irie,
Well been studying their Alicia macrodisca and imho it may in fact be Niedenzuella stannea....
Which is imo even better!!!!Big grin
Syn. mascagnia benthamiana / mascagnia sericans (ayahusca amarilla)....oh yes!
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-seri-per-1726077.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-seri-per-1707661.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-bent-per-1894267.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-bent-per-1837291.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-bent-per-1887788.jpgCollected by D & T.Mckenna!!!
Malpig's
I'd say that Kiwi has stumbled across another GEM.

Respect,
Z
 
BecometheOther
#171 Posted : 6/19/2012 4:47:31 AM

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awesome zaka!

Now that kiwi is up, i am going to get grey (griss) and caupuri, and i intend to bioassay them.
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endlessness
#172 Posted : 6/20/2012 10:57:33 AM

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Zaka wrote:
Irie,
Well been studying their Alicia macrodisca and imho it may in fact be Niedenzuella stannea....
Which is imo even better!!!!Big grin
Syn. mascagnia benthamiana / mascagnia sericans (ayahusca amarilla)....oh yes!
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-seri-per-1726077.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-seri-per-1707661.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-bent-per-1894267.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-bent-per-1837291.jpg
http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/vrrc...asc-bent-per-1887788.jpgCollected by D & T.Mckenna!!!
Malpig's
I'd say that Kiwi has stumbled across another GEM.

Respect,
Z


Im not sure, I dont think thats it... In all of thes vouchers it says white flowers, it doesnt mention anything about the red in the flowers. In the herbarium I linked in the Alicia workspace thread, they say the flowers are white with red streaks (though in their pictures they are yellow with red streaks).

Why do you think this is a more likely candidate?
 
Zaka
#173 Posted : 6/20/2012 11:56:57 AM
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Irie,
This is the photo's I've been studying...
Which kiwi has tagged Alicia macrodisca, clearly is not an Alicia sp.
I based my assumption on the samaras, as well as, the shape & color of the flowers.
I see they have changed & up-dated some of the id's at their site....
Respect,
Z
 
Shadowman-x
#174 Posted : 6/24/2012 5:33:23 PM

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http://www.elmundomagico...vian-amazon-rainforest/

Found this website today, not sure if you guys have seen it befoer or not.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
 
jamie
#175 Posted : 6/24/2012 5:57:42 PM

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Ive seen that site before..but it is vague..like they have "campana ayahuasca" but it is just listed as "banisteriopsis species"..

I would like to know what campana ayahuasca is though.
 
Parshvik Chintan
#176 Posted : 7/2/2012 12:03:40 AM

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Shadowman-x wrote:
http://www.elmundomagico.org/plant-teachers-of-the-peruvian-amazon-rainforest/

Found this website today, not sure if you guys have seen it befoer or not.

that is a pretty awesome site, vague as it may be.
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endlessness
#177 Posted : 7/13/2012 7:39:48 PM

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Seems kiwi has now 2 new types of ayahuasca! Boa ayahuasca and Cielo azul ayahuasca... This guy keeps bringing interesting stuff, cant wait to get more info on those and test them Very happy
 
Parshvik Chintan
#178 Posted : 7/18/2012 10:53:29 PM

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wow!
boa ayahuasca sounds badass
My wind instrument is the bong
CHANGA IN THE BONGA!
 
BecometheOther
#179 Posted : 7/18/2012 10:56:09 PM

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Thanks for the heads up! Boahuasca here i come!
You have never been apart from me. You can never depart and never return, for we are continuous, indistinguishable. We are eternal forever
 
BecometheOther
#180 Posted : 7/20/2012 10:57:00 PM

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Im really loving this collaborative research project idea. Between these obscure ayahuasca's and the psychotria thread, and the aya anylasis thread i think were doing really valuable work that the modern world really just hasnt attempted yet, or hasnt really put the pieces together.

Were still waiting on conclusive anylasis on the grey and the alecia right? The results were too all over the place and we need a more conclusive test.

But in the meantime we still reaally have yet to see a decent amount of bioassay accounts and i know there are at least a few people working witht he muricata and the alecia...

ANyone got anythign to say about the psychoactive effects of any of these vines?

You have never been apart from me. You can never depart and never return, for we are continuous, indistinguishable. We are eternal forever
 
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