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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
Acacia subliminata
#521 Posted : 6/4/2012 7:57:23 AM
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Hi all, loving this thread, been researching for a couple of years now.

I have recently found two promising large acacias growing on my property and would like some help identifying them. I haven't got a working camera so i'll try to describe them. The first one looks a lot like A.cultriformis but the phyllodes are just a little more elongated, it has flower buds that I think will form the "spike" arrangement. Is there a sub species of A.cultriformis?

The second is a tree about 5 meters tall, quite bushy, the phyllodes are long, thin and mostly straight, acuminate at both ends with a visible midvein, it has flower buds which I think are also the "spike" formation and each phyllode (on the sample i picked) has it's own little flower spike. I live in central west Australia.

Thanks so much for all your work protecting the trees, I formed quite a bond with my maidenii

Edited to say: I'll attach some pics as soon as I get the camera working!
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
acacian
#522 Posted : 6/4/2012 9:12:21 AM

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well i'm not exactly sure what this substance is from the iteaphylla now. it doesn't seem to act like DMT... i attempted recrystalisation via freeze precip and it didn't precipitate so I had to let it evap again.. it also had a lot of trouble dissolving in the warm shellite... this time got a bit less oil in it and more white crystals.. sandwiched a little bit in a cone with some acacia mearnsii phyllodes which are one of my favourites for changa blends.. very bitter! so bitter I found it hard to hold the smoke and blew it out before really keeping it in my system long enough for effects..thus I am thinking it may be another alkaloid.. though I will do more research as I am intrigued by this substance, and I will muster up the guster to hold that smoke in a bit longer next time

also I did a very rough extraction on 200g fresh phyllodes+flowers just to get an idea of whether it was active so I'll do it more meticulously next time.. boiled for bout 3 hrs, without pouring off the soup. instead i just kept adding more water to the pot allowing more space for the alks. basified to 12.3 and did one pull with the shelly and evapped the result

I wonder whether it could be phenethylamine? maybe 5 meo? I have no referance there though as I have no idea what 5 meo dmt smoke or phenethylamine smoke tastes like

wira.. yes its definitely an acacia i've seen it in flower and it flowers the same as the flori's.. think those photos might not have shown the tree well enough ... the phyllodes look a bit differen't in the photos. But it seems to be the same type of Acacia that I've been having the failed extractions with. I'll take more for you guys. And thankyou I will look into those species Very happy

also... boiling water isn't softening the hard coating on my phlebophylla seeds? any ideas? nicking it with a blade isn't working either and I accidently broke a seed doing so Sad

really looking forward to these Floribunda's taking off.. currently playing them some tasty psy .. i have heard plants like music.. any ideas on that one? Razz

Gowpen congrats buddy I'm happy for ya!
 
nen888
#523 Posted : 6/5/2012 1:39:36 AM
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..hey all..here we are arriving at an unprecedented 30pages (and still going!)
i will update the INDEX of the thread soon, and try to include more links..

firstly welcome Acacia subliminata..Smile you sound like an interesting species..look forward to the pics..
and thanks wira for your advanced input, as always..

quick comment on what bricklaya wrote above:
Quote:
I wonder whether it could be phenethylamine? maybe 5 meo? I have no referance there though as I have no idea what 5 meo dmt smoke or phenethylamine smoke tastes like

..thanks for your diligent experimentation and interest..if it was 5meoDMT, only a small amount would be very strong in effects..10 mg is strong..15-20mg can be a blinding light mental overload for most (it lacks the colour and characters of DMT, is considered spiritual by a few, and not liked by many); phenethylamines, on the other hand, do i believe have an unpleasant bitter taste when vaporized..based on very limited reports..simple PEA is reported as having effects orally in large doses, a very large dose orally was reported as 'psychedelic' [see https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...osts&t=30780&p=1], but some warn could be physically unsafe at these levels..certainly PEAs are not as safe as tryptamines generally are physiologically, in normal doses..
i'm sure all your learning will pay off bricklaya..re: phlebophylla seeds, yeah try nicking coat with pair of scissors, or slightly filing down, then soak..some species take a week or two swell..


BTW, Growpen..big congratulations!..i'm not sure if you actually specified which tree those white DMT crystals are from..? i assume acuminata narrow leaf, especially as it's that pure looking..
..studying Botany is fascinating, but not recommended for solid employment opportunities..in fact, one full-time botanist i know says (in Australia) "Botanists are becoming much rarer than the plants they study."
..Mycology is in a worse state..perhaps this reflects an economics/manufacturing slant to society, as opposed to the old science for knowledge's sake ideals..
Growpen, you wrote:
Quote:
I did find this photo site of Acacias in Arizona, (near you ?) and there are 4 listed here;
Acacia Angustissima
A. Constrica
A. Greggii
A. Neovernicosa http://www.cas.vanderbil...ages/arizona-plants.htm
I notice they are all from a family of called 'fabaceae' I think Acuminata is related.... nen ?
None like yours though, it is really amazes me how they are all over the planet, I would love to find out more about them.
..i must investigate A. Neovernicosa more, thanks..
..in systematic Botany (stemming from Linaeus) plants are arranged into individual examples of Species, which together form a Genus (in our case Acacia), similar/related genus are grouped at the next level up in Families.. Acacia is in the family Fabaceae (formely Leguminosiaeae), the 'pea pod family', which also includes Mimosa, Calliandra and Prosopis ('mesquite'Pleased..
.
below, relating to cave paintings' pics, are 2 of Acacia ligulata, and one of A. saligna..no known chemical studies of either..



..also, in this vast thread, in which i also rely on the Index, i noticed in the main reference entry for A. acuminata [p13#245 here]
Quote:
Jeremy 2007 (cited in Voogelbreinder 2009) found (in spp. acuminata) found mainly DMT in mature leaves (0.6-0.8%), 1.6% DMT in bark, and mainly tryptamine in young leaves, by GCMS..spp.burkittii was said to be more variable..
..so this is further evidence, along with phlebophylla and mucronata, for the appearance of DMT with maturity in some species..
.
nen888 attached the following image(s):
ligulata_.jpg (85kb) downloaded 336 time(s).
acacia ligulata_.jpg (136kb) downloaded 335 time(s).
acacia_saligna.jpg (81kb) downloaded 332 time(s).
 
nen888
#524 Posted : 6/5/2012 2:19:38 AM
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..cave paintings wrote:
Quote:
I just don't want to go hack down a tree to find out it doesn't contain anything. How much would you recommend to use as a sample nen?
..i would recommend using 50-200 grams of fresh material (phyllode, twig, or stem bark) ..if there's a % worth investigating further, this would be enough material to know..e.g. 20 grams A. acuminata phyllode (at 1.0% content) = 200mg alkaloid

with so many species around, i feel they'll be something interesting in your zone cave paintings..
native american knowledge is now, like with mesquite, very hard to access, or gone..but the plants still call out to those who hear..
acacias play an important role in the environmental 'community' wherever they grow..
.
 
cave paintings
#525 Posted : 6/5/2012 3:24:58 AM

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Hm. Just looked into mesquite a little more. Did not realize how much medicinal and other properties it has. Mesquite is certainly a common tree around my parts as well. I am keeping an eye out for native acacias. I need to familiarize myself with the pictures a little more as I know I have seen them around before.
Thanks again for the info nen! I will update with data points as they appear!
Living to Give
 
acacian
#526 Posted : 6/5/2012 6:21:03 AM

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Thanks for the info nen... based on the taste phenethylamine sounds like a strong possibility.. though I will do my next extract with defat next time as there is also a possibility of it having undesirable tasting oils too..

wow i wish acuminata grew here 1.6% for bark is huge! as is 0.6-0.7% for leaves. I MUST start growing this species it sounds like a real winner, and sounds more consistent than obtusifolia too. though I am absolutely dying to meet an obtusifolia.. I don't believe I've ever seen one in person

anyone know of activity in Acacia alpina? it looks strikingly similar to phlebophylla though a little less hectic with the veins. is it much more common than phleb or is it endangered too?

Its interesting how many of the high and consistent tryptamine containers have such an intelligent feel and look about them.. the phlebophylla for example really lets one know it is a teacher I reckon. the veins in those leaves even look like hyperspatial patterns to me. and floribunda, acuminata and obtusifolia are also absolutely stunning looking trees with a very intelligent vibe. I reckon some plants like to let us know that they can teach us.. but hey all natures beautiful Smile

 
westernspice
#527 Posted : 6/5/2012 7:47:28 AM
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I've decided to give Mearnsii a go, currently have 50g of ground bark soaking in a mix of vinegar/metho/water as per the Nen method Pleased This is my first attempt so it could go bad..but hopefully i can clear up the unconfirmed 5meo content. Really hoping its dmt rather than 5meo..but anyways we will see Pleased
 
acacian
#528 Posted : 6/5/2012 7:52:15 AM

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Look forward to your results Westernspice Smile
I was thinking of giving Mearnsii a go as well sometime this week. recall a report from chocobeastie of a good dmt yield from this species, though I believe a second extract came out negative
 
Spice Sailor
#529 Posted : 6/5/2012 8:21:07 AM

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Hey nexians keep the information streaming and get on the ethical Acacia research wagon. Bricklayer Acacia alpina is known to hybridise with phlebophylla in high land north east Vic and grows also in the Snowy mnts in Southern NSW. It appears to be less endangered than phlebophylla ( please confirm this before any extractions are attempted from wild matter). However it is confined to alpine and highland regions so probably not the most common.

But as genetics seems to be an important factor in the presence of tryptamines in Acacias I would definitely put it on your "to research" list.

If anyone can find a previous reference for tryptamines it will be Nen. I had a quick look but nothing
popped up.

Here is the link to world wide wattle: Acacia alpina.

http://www.worldwidewatt...eciesgallery/alpina.php

Ps. It has "the look" definitely as well as being a beautiful Acacia.
 
Gowpen
#530 Posted : 6/5/2012 9:34:06 AM

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Just something to make you all laugh....... I nearly cried.

I finally managed to find true Acuminata (after searching for a year and 8 failed extraction from wrong species), I test extracted from the phyllodes and Bingo. 50mg white and about 150mg jungle.

I then made a serious, fastidious even, attempt at extracting from the bark and twigs, I spent hours manicuring....about 200gms
I just did the first pull, I know it was loaded, and guess what, yep I dropped the lot all over the kitchen floor.......... Doh !

I am gutted. I took two days from work to travel to a remote local to find it too. I hid myself for days to extract and be cool to do so.

Guess I’m not meant for DMT. It will be months, even years before I can go back to this location.......
OK I'm a quitter. (today)
One can never cross the ocean without the Courage to lose sight of the shore
 
acacian
#531 Posted : 6/5/2012 10:08:11 AM

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keep at it Gowpen... it will pay off. the divine beings of hyperspace will recognise your dedication and hopefully reward you with some good ol' shamanic ecstacy
and plus... you got a bit of dmt off the other extract right? enjoy that for now Smile

PM'ed you
 
Gowpen
#532 Posted : 6/5/2012 10:58:08 AM

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Thanks for tyhe encouragement Brickie, I will try what I have somewhen, but I tink i'm done, just not meant to happen I guess, Im cool with that bro. I will take up golf or table tennis or some other mindless pursuit to compliment my pathetic clumsiness, and forget I ever had aspirations of growth and knowledge and healing and trying DMT. I might get back on the horse one day........
One can never cross the ocean without the Courage to lose sight of the shore
 
Acacia subliminata
#533 Posted : 6/5/2012 11:08:25 AM
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Trying to work out how to delete an accidental post!
 
westernspice
#534 Posted : 6/5/2012 11:16:34 AM
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Keep at it Gowpen, it took me about 18months to find my first psilocybe fungus, and now i find them everywhere i look. Mother earth will reward your dedication Pleased
 
acacian
#535 Posted : 6/5/2012 11:20:42 AM

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ah man thats really disappointing to hear Gowpen.. I don't think you should give up so easily.. i mean .. you did just recently have success surely thats encouraging.. and the solution you spilled was only from 200g material right? thats no big loss. Personally I think if it interests you so much.. and obviously it does if your willing to go to such lengths as travelling huge distances to get it, whilst doing the miles with the acacia research too, then you should stick at it. Ive spilled dmt saturated solutions before and its a shitty "why do i bother" feeing.... but it doesn't mean it wasn't meant to be. just means I wasn't careful enough Smile and I will be less likely to make that mistake in the future

but hey its up to you Smile table tennis is fun
 
Acacia subliminata
#536 Posted : 6/5/2012 11:43:21 AM
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Actually the one with the long phyllodes looks a lot like the A.saligna you just posted a pic of!
 
Acacia subliminata
#537 Posted : 6/5/2012 10:52:16 PM
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Wow! Thanks cave paintings, thats a great site! My first thought was A.cultriformis too but I have a young A.cultriformis(golden glow)that I compared to it (and other pics online) and the knife shaped phyllodes on the unidentified tree are just slightly longer and thinner. Maybe this has to do with age? I don't think it's A.notabilis because the phyllodes are straight on one side and Very close with A.semilunata but the phyllode tips seem blunter than mine. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to help out, what a lovely little pioneering community this thread is! My friend can't wait to start trying out some quick phyllode exractions and contributing to this awesome info Smile
 
nen888
#538 Posted : 6/6/2012 2:47:31 AM
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..gosh, so much to take in..be back in a day or so..happy venus transit everyone..Smile
will read all the above before commenting..

quick A. mucronata bio-assay report..50mg that remained of the young phyllode extract tested by endlessness were bio-assayed by vapor [NMT, tryptamine, 2MTHBC, harmine, unknown traces, possible trace DMT]

"..the taste was very odd..not harsh, but odd..'soapy'..like some other more exotic acacia extracts..immediate 20 second build up to slight sense of recceeding from ordinary space..2-3 second flash of white light circular shape then very faint CEVs of turqiouse dots for approx 45 seconds, sense of slight heart rate increase ..then floatiness combined with a musclar sensation that is relieved by walking from 1-20 minutes, no more visuals..mild sense of time displacement. sunlight mild fuzziness, feelings of ancient times, slight sedation effects 20mins to 45 mins..tail end more reminiscent of NMT and betacarbolines.."

..tryptamine seems to produce physical sensations in muscles & chest..when combined with even small amounts of 5meoDMT (as in one A. elata example) the physical effects can be extreme..

"..all in all, a pleasant experience, with a sense of ruggedness in the first minute, which may be more pronounced with a larger dose.."

..if the Masai men's brew on the previous page is anything like this, i can quite relate to their expressions and movements in the photo..

back soon,
stay well acacia-loving-nexians..
.
 
nen888
#539 Posted : 6/6/2012 6:39:30 AM
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..alright, Growpen bro..be not so forlorn..i think bricklaya summed things up perfectly with:
Quote:
ah man thats really disappointing to hear Gowpen.. I don't think you should give up so easily.. i mean .. you did just recently have success surely thats encouraging.. and the solution you spilled was only from 200g material right? that's no big loss. Personally I think if it interests you so much.. and obviously it does if your willing to go to such lengths as travelling huge distances to get it, whilst doing the miles with the acacia research too, then you should stick at it. Ive spilled dmt saturated solutions before and its a shitty "why do i bother" feeing.... but it doesn't mean it wasn't meant to be. just means I wasn't careful enough Smile and I will be less likely to make that mistake in the future

but hey its up to you Smile table tennis is fun
..is table tennis the same as ping-pong..boy that's a fast game!
..maybe, Growpen it's all about timing..also as i said after bricklaya spilled a brew, i know the feeling, it usually for me comes with over-excitement, and being rushed or not having my focus in one place..it can be hard to do this when you have kids, as i know well Growpen..in my 20s i had the luxury of being able to drive and bush walk every day for a solid two fortnight in search of my first active acacia..with commitments now, time is more pressing..but, in important or tense situations, i like to remember Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jin's advice to the young Obi-Wan in such circumstances..
Quote:
"Relax..."

..so, when i suggest it's about timing, what i mean is, having being so called, and having come this far, there's no rush..
DMT is not like much else..as Pandora (best wishes) once said, it's like the first time you have sex..it's a very special/personal thing..a spiritual thing for most advocates..so, maybe synchronisticly, your guiding subconscious wanted to give you a little more prep time..to take in everything you've learned, and focus an intent..
and besides, like brickie says, 200grams of plant is not such a huge waste..and (i'm a little confused) haven't you already got a little DMT? (the recent white stuff - if it was flat circular needles it could be nmt, would darken..that looks like dmt)

..for some people, once or twice a year is enough to gain a lot of insight from DMT..even Terence McKenna told me he only actually smoked it about four times a year..the crystals you've already got (unless i've missed something) may suffice you for a while..or at least you'll know if you'd like to try it a lot more..
..and having a good pre-planned vaporizing method is important..glass vaporizer/chamber, glass pipe with large round bowl etc..and good set and setting..
..on behalf of my wattle friends (if i'm allowed to be so subjective) i feel that you wouldn't have been called this far to give up, disheartened..

the first time i smoked acacia-dmt i thought (echoing terence): "This is not a drug, it's magic." ..after a year or so i thought: "This is not a molecule, this is something from a tree's blood gone into my brain..."

..lastly, i would recommend to most people, for a first experiment/extraction that they source a known reliable plant
(e.g. A. confusa, A. acuminata, A. floribunda, M. hostilis, P. viridis, P. aquatica 'AQ1') to practice with..saves going through what some acaciaphytes like Growpen have been experiencing lately, which is surely fatiguing..also, is better practice for dealing with lesser known species..
.

ps. a few corrections to mucronata bio-assay post#600..





..bricklaya, Acacia alpina was covered in here..i will add to the info in there that the first bioassay was by the writer/researcher M. Bock..he was not sure if the plant was a hybrid with phlebophylla..Spice Sailor's description of it's habitat is good..it's not endangered, but not widespread..% in phyllodes seems around 0.2-0.3%..the 2nd bioassay was probably not a hybrid, and was from a different mountain..
.

also discussed in #103 are A. dallachiana, A. binervata, A. saligna & A. macradenia..

..i'll get onto the Index again soon,

thanks everyone for enthusiastically keeping this thread alive, and loving acacias..Smile
.

oh, ps. i've changed by recommendation (to cave painting's question) on how much plant to test for an experimental extraction..i've revised this to 50-200 grams of (preferably) fresh material..all the samples tested by endlessness were from 20-80 grams of phyllode etc..
.

..A. alpina..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia alpina 3.jpg (103kb) downloaded 459 time(s).
alpina_WWW.jpg (107kb) downloaded 455 time(s).
 
endlessness
#540 Posted : 6/6/2012 1:38:31 PM

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Suggestion: Nen, add to the first post index a link to the post a couple of pages back where you answered me regarding sustainable harvesting of Acacias

Smile
 
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