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using plastic for extraction? Options
 
Sayaqua
#1 Posted : 4/19/2012 4:21:49 AM

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Hi all,

Someone who is me is preparing an MHRB extraction and was wondering if plastic is safe to use with a STB using Red devil lye. I've seen pictures of people using milk jugs and was wondering if a plastic water jug would be safe or the lye would be to corrosive.

Thanks for your advice.

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#2 Posted : 4/19/2012 4:32:42 AM

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Look for hdpe2 in a triangle and you're safe. Not sure about all milk jugs so check for it to be safe.

"Plastic water bottles are very convenient for carting water around when we are on the go, as they don't break if we drop them. However, it is worth paying attention to the type of plastic your water bottle is made of, to ensure that the chemicals in the plastic do not leach into the water. If you taste plastic, you are drinking it, so get yourself another bottle.

To be certain that you are choosing a bottle that does not leach, check the recycling symbol on your bottle. If it is a #2 HDPE (high density polyethylene), or a #4 LDPE (low density polyethylene), or a #5 PP (polypropylene), your bottle is fine. The type of plastic bottle in which water is usually sold is usually a #1, and is only recommended for one time use."

Full article: Which plastic water bottles don't leach chemicals? | Trusted.MD http://trusted.md/blog/v...r_bottles#ixzz1sSCRNiak
 
Sayaqua
#3 Posted : 4/19/2012 5:11:03 AM

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Problem solved. Thank you!
 
proto-pax
#4 Posted : 4/19/2012 5:21:38 AM

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HDPE has thalates in it that will leach into your product.


use glass.
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endlessness
#5 Posted : 4/19/2012 8:36:45 AM

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Smerrel
#6 Posted : 4/19/2012 1:56:53 PM

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I use plastic jugs for the big extraction and it works fine. But once i tried to use plastic shot-glasses for re-x. Bad idea.. I thought it was safe because i tested it with room temperature heptane and it was fine.. but warm heptane made the plastic milky and soft. So just a tip, if you're testing, test with different temperatures.
 
endlessness
#7 Posted : 4/19/2012 2:09:50 PM

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Just because you dont see any macroscopic change doesn't mean plastic traces and phthalates arent dissolving in your solvent and ending in your final product. Your eyes are not analytical instruments.

Also, if something is clearly dissolving at high temperatures, its probably also gonna be dissolving at lower temperatures, just at a slower rate. Dont risk your health please, we dont want you in 10 years to be saying DMT usage caused you cancer or some endocrine disease because of your lack of safety care.
 
SnozzleBerry
#8 Posted : 4/19/2012 2:22:00 PM

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Quote:
Phillips lists two major classes of chemicals that are not compatible with HDPE: aromatic hydrocarbons, and halogenated hydrocarbons. The basic aromatic hydrocarbon is benzene (a major component of gasoline); others are toluene (also called methylbenzene), and the three xylenes (o-, m-and p-xylene). Others include naphthalene (moth balls), and pdichlorobenzene (also moth balls). These aromatic hydrocarbons "permeate excessively and cause package deformation," says Phillips.

Full link: http://www.ejnet.org/rachel/rhwn117.htm
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whitebread420
#9 Posted : 4/19/2012 2:39:45 PM
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SnozzleBerry wrote:
Quote:
Phillips lists two major classes of chemicals that are not compatible with HDPE: aromatic hydrocarbons, and halogenated hydrocarbons. The basic aromatic hydrocarbon is benzene (a major component of gasoline); others are toluene (also called methylbenzene), and the three xylenes (o-, m-and p-xylene). Others include naphthalene (moth balls), and pdichlorobenzene (also moth balls). These aromatic hydrocarbons "permeate excessively and cause package deformation," says Phillips.

Full link: http://www.ejnet.org/rachel/rhwn117.htm


I use lab grade xylene for my immunoflourescnece experiments at my lab and it comes in an HDPE jug...
 
endlessness
#10 Posted : 4/19/2012 2:48:46 PM

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You should mass spec that xylene and see if it doesnt have phthalates.. Also, depending on whats the use, plasticizers will not affect experiments. m not sure about immunofluorescence.

Anyways what does 'lab grade' mean? lab grade is not an official standard AFAIK, and lab work doesnt mean its safe for ingesting a product made using that. I doubt you'll find USP grade solvents (where products can be ingested), specially aromatic/hallogenated, in plastic containers.

What chemical company is that xylene from? It can happen that major companies ship in glass but resellers repackage in plastic.

Also, there are fluorinated HDPEs which are supposedly more resistant to aromatics.. But again, im not sure if this protects phthalates from dissolving or just the plastic itself.

Why risk your health? Use glass if its for human ingestion, its not hard to find glass..
 
SnozzleBerry
#11 Posted : 4/19/2012 3:10:54 PM

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Endlessness pretty much nailed everything.

Let's be real...you're not ingesting any part of your immunofluorescence experiments, are you?

Additionally, when the company that makes HDPE states that it is specifically incompatible with aromatic hydrocarbons and xylenes, on what grounds would you disagree? I would posit that the company that created and manufactures HDPE would know best.
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damon
#12 Posted : 4/19/2012 3:26:08 PM

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I had a gallon milk jug bust once, it was inside another container so no big deal. It was sitting undisturbed for a month or so, and then one day I noticed the smell. It wasn't a gradual leak, it formed a crack at a seam and it all came out quickly. I have read several other reports of people that weren't so lucky. From then on I stuck with smaller batches in mason jars, which aren't perfect either but better than plastic.
 
benzyme
#13 Posted : 4/19/2012 3:41:17 PM

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endlessness wrote:
Just because you dont see any macroscopic change doesn't mean plastic traces and phthalates arent dissolving in your solvent and ending in your final product. Your eyes are not analytical instruments.



what is your fixation with phthalates? even PP and HDPE degradation products show up on MALDI, i.e. a pattern of 44 m/z monomers, with no phthalates present.

avoid plastics in general, not just terephthalates, when working with nonpolars.
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endlessness
#14 Posted : 4/19/2012 3:44:30 PM

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no fixation, its just commonly encountered and a health risk. I also mentioned "plastic traces", which includes, in my mind, degradation products. PP also leaches oleamide, and it isnt a phthalate. Im just not as precise as you in chemical jargon Razz
 
benzyme
#15 Posted : 4/19/2012 3:47:03 PM

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the plastics that are designed to be inert to the nonpolars are PEEK and PTFE (and perhaps certain nylon derivatives), and they're not cheap. it's been said before, by you, myself, and others...it's best to stick to glass
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endlessness
#16 Posted : 4/19/2012 3:50:50 PM

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Yeah thats true. Borosilicate glass separatory funnel with PTFE stopcock ftw Very happy
 
whitebread420
#17 Posted : 4/19/2012 3:55:21 PM
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I'm just saying the safety of using plastic sometimes out weights that of glass. You never know if glass will break and ruin your day

But I agree you should use glass if you can get a hold of the proper equipment (which I have now lol). I would be worried using anything other than pyrex... I've NEVER seen pyrex break from heat stress, but I'm sure it's possible
 
SnozzleBerry
#18 Posted : 4/19/2012 4:02:43 PM

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whitebread420 wrote:
I'm just saying the safety of using plastic sometimes out weights that of glass.

I would disagree for all cases when we are talking about extractions involving non-polar solvents where the intention is a product for human consumption.

Yeah, you can attempt to clean your product of plasticizers...but why even put yourself in that position? Imo, with the proper attention to method, extractions can be done more safely in non-pyrex glass than plastic.
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endlessness
#19 Posted : 4/19/2012 4:09:24 PM

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Most (all?) glass breaking in extractions is due to unnecessary heat stress, which you can easily avoid by just adding lye slowly and gradually, and stirring as you do it so heat isnt accumulated to one part of the glass. Also better avoid storing strong lye solutions for long time like months in a glass container, most specially if its some cheap glass because of lye etching glass. Borosilicate (pyrex) is definitely better, but anyways I think in a few days to a couple of weeks one should have finished the extraction
 
whitebread420
#20 Posted : 4/19/2012 4:14:10 PM
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so they should start packaging water, milk, orange juice, and anything else that's packaged in plastic jugs in glass instead?

I'm seriously not trying to be an ass, but wouldn't these products dissolve these phtalates potentially?
 
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