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Panaeolus Cyans vs Psilocybe Cubensis Options
 
Yerba
#21 Posted : 4/14/2012 12:46:49 AM
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I thought the 'cold shock' was a myth?
 

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Trippym
#22 Posted : 4/14/2012 12:57:00 AM
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I think cold shock is a myth when it comes to cubies(I have a mixed opinion about this) , but it definitely works for other species of mushroom.....
 
Dante
#23 Posted : 4/14/2012 1:06:30 AM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:

The Psilocybes, from what I understand, are woodlovers that (unless you've got some serious skills and something akin to a wine fridge) must be grown outdoors in patches and require a cold shock to fruit.

They are as easy as Cubes to grow, you can use the PF tek and incubate them at the same temperature. Once they are fully colonized, you can either birth them after a cold shock or use them to colonize wood chips for indoor casing or an outdoor patch.
Listen to a man of experience: thou wilt learn more in the woods than in books. Trees and stones will teach thee more than thou canst acquire from the mouth of a master. St. Bernard
 
Dante
#24 Posted : 4/14/2012 1:09:15 AM

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The cold shock is necessary with Psi Cyan cause they naturally fruit at lower temperatures.
Listen to a man of experience: thou wilt learn more in the woods than in books. Trees and stones will teach thee more than thou canst acquire from the mouth of a master. St. Bernard
 
SnozzleBerry
#25 Posted : 4/14/2012 1:22:11 AM

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Yerba wrote:
I thought the 'cold shock' was a myth?


Trippym wrote:
I think cold shock is a myth when it comes to cubies(I have a mixed opinion about this) , but it definitely works for other species of mushroom.....


I wasn't talking about cubes, I was pointing to the fact that there are two genera that contain a cyanescens species that seem to be getting confused Pleased

Dante, I haven't seen an indoor grow of Psilocybe cyans that has yielded anything resembling a decent flush. They're somewhat known for performing relatively poorly when cultivated indoors, afaik. Do you have a link to pics or a thread of hearty indoor flushing? I was also under the impression that a fridge with a transparent door and/or fluorescent lighting was needed to satisfy their lighting requirements while getting cold shocked.
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Dante
#26 Posted : 4/14/2012 2:03:14 AM

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I just did some research and you are actually right, they are hard to fruit indoor! You can still use the PF tek though, but for fruiting it's much easier to use an outdoor patch. Sorry, i mixed things up Smile
Listen to a man of experience: thou wilt learn more in the woods than in books. Trees and stones will teach thee more than thou canst acquire from the mouth of a master. St. Bernard
 
behindthelight
#27 Posted : 4/14/2012 2:22:15 AM
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Bancopuma wrote:
Also if you can grow cubensis from scratch you can definitely grow Pan cyans.


This is definitely false. They are extremely difficult to grow. Nothing like cubes.
 
jamie
#28 Posted : 4/14/2012 2:47:10 AM

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olympus mon wrote:
For me, Id take some good strong Cube's over cyans. Being from the PNW cyans are a plenty but they tend to be a bit dark IMO.

I usually eat about 2g cyans or 4.5 g cubensis to get where I like to be. It could just be the particular cyan patch because Ive always eaten from that one patch icehouse has access to and he has agreed they tend to be dark and heavy.

To date the strongest and most powerful mushroom experience ever had was on PF's. These a the food of the Gods.

Im very anxious to start working with mushrooms and syrian rue when I get home. My good friend here in Peru says its his most favourable journey and very aya like.


They can have a very dark quality..not sure why. I love cubes and cyans..hardly take mushrooms anymore though. I have taken them just tons of times and used to take them at least weekly. It's been about 6 months now though..I find mimosa to be in general a bit lighter than all the mushrooms I have eaten..I dont mean milder I mean that the mushrooms are just darker in general.

They were especially weird and dark for me when I took them with caapi..only mixed mushrooms and harmalas that one time becasue to be honest, the length of mushrooms when combined with harmalas sort of freaks me out. I also smoked though and took some mimosa with the caapi before the mushrooms so I dunno really..

Im just hoping to find some panaeolus cintulus this spring and summer..never had them yet.

It is funny becasue before DMT and ayahuasca I would have never said mushrooms seem dark..they remind me of trolls lol.
Long live the unwoke.
 
Ice House
#29 Posted : 4/14/2012 9:38:38 AM

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Ive t quite a bit of experience with

Ps semilanceatta
Ps cyanescens
Ps stuntzii
Ps beocystis
Ps azurescens

never tried pan subs or pan cyans.

I have found Ps beocystis to be by far the most visual psychedelic of the bunch.
My experience with Ps cyans is exactly what others here have mentioned, dark.
Ps Semi... or Liberty Caps are indeed very colorful.

I have sucessfully cultivated Ps Cyans for many years, outdoors. I have been involved with several attempts to grow Ps Cyans indoors or in a controlled environment. All efforts I have seen were fruitless. Your PNW species are sooo much more difficult to cultivate because there are sooo many more variables at work when getting them to fruit. Variables that are controlled by mother nature and mother nature only.

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Bancopuma
#30 Posted : 4/14/2012 12:24:29 PM

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I just want to stand by my statement and repeat...if you can grow cubensis from scratch, you can grow Pan cyans. They are certainly harder to grow for sure but not "extremely difficult". I pulled it off numerous times and I ain't a professional mycologist! They are fussier regarding their environment, you have to get the temperature and humidity right and get some air flow going to stop carbon dioxide building up which is highly detrimental to fruiting. Think I'm gonna do a grow soon and I will be sure to document it and take pics and stuff and share it on here as a tek so others can grow this species if they wish. As well as being very special, very potent mushrooms, they finish in less time than cubensis and they store very well in the long term when dried without losing potency. Their spore prints also remain viable for a long time...the guy who taught me how to grow these beauties has a spore print of these that was ten years old and still producing viable spores.

I have only sampled the Hawaiian strain of Pan cyans, and it seems that there are much wider variations in the biochemistry between strains of Pan cyans than there is between cubensis strains, with some people finding them quite dark, others finding them crystalline and beautiful. I don't think the Mazatec hold cubensis in particularly high regard...perhaps because it is introduced, or perhaps because it grows on dung, but it is one of the least favoured for shamanic use, when compared to something like Psilocybe mexicana. The Hawaiian strain that I am familiar with is meant to have a very high ratio of psilocybin over psilocin. This must explain why they keep their potency so well, as psilocin is a much more fragile molecule. I would recommend to people that are seriously into their mushrooms consider sampling other species and strains and find what they are most compatible with.
 
SnozzleBerry
#31 Posted : 4/14/2012 2:16:42 PM

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behindthelight wrote:
Bancopuma wrote:
Also if you can grow cubensis from scratch you can definitely grow Pan cyans.


This is definitely false. They are extremely difficult to grow. Nothing like cubes.

This is far from what I understand to be true.

While they do require careful attention to certain aspects that cubes do not, there are many similarities. For example, if you choose to not make an initial poo substrate to inoculate in jars/bags:

You can make an lc (such as 2-4% karo solution) and inoculate with spores, just like cubes
You can inoculate rye/wbs with either Pan multispore or lc, just like cubes
You can spawn to bulk sub (although it should include cow/horse poo), just like cubes

Then it gets different, you pretty much need a casing layer, albeit a thin one, afaik. Additionally, from what I understand, you want fruiting conditions to be high in both humidity and air exchange and you do not want to mist once pins appear, as doing so will cause the pins to abort. Theoretically you also want slightly warmer temps than cubes through the spawn run/casing/pinning...but I've heard that they do just fine in the same temperature parameters as cubes and seen grows that appear to demonstrate this to be true.
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In New York, we wrote the legal number on our arms in marker...To call a lawyer if we were arrested.
In Istanbul, People wrote their blood types on their arms. I hear in Egypt, They just write Their names.
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behindthelight
#32 Posted : 4/14/2012 4:59:30 PM
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Bancopuma wrote:
I just want to stand by my statement and repeat...if you can grow cubensis from scratch, you can grow Pan cyans. They are certainly harder to grow for sure but not "extremely difficult". I pulled it off numerous times and I ain't a professional mycologist! They are fussier regarding their environment, you have to get the temperature and humidity right and get some air flow going to stop carbon dioxide building up which is highly detrimental to fruiting. Think I'm gonna do a grow soon and I will be sure to document it and take pics and stuff and share it on here as a tek so others can grow this species if they wish. As well as being very special, very potent mushrooms, they finish in less time than cubensis and they store very well in the long term when dried without losing potency. Their spore prints also remain viable for a long time...the guy who taught me how to grow these beauties has a spore print of these that was ten years old and still producing viable spores.

I have only sampled the Hawaiian strain of Pan cyans, and it seems that there are much wider variations in the biochemistry between strains of Pan cyans than there is between cubensis strains, with some people finding them quite dark, others finding them crystalline and beautiful. I don't think the Mazatec hold cubensis in particularly high regard...perhaps because it is introduced, or perhaps because it grows on dung, but it is one of the least favoured for shamanic use, when compared to something like Psilocybe mexicana. The Hawaiian strain that I am familiar with is meant to have a very high ratio of psilocybin over psilocin. This must explain why they keep their potency so well, as psilocin is a much more fragile molecule. I would recommend to people that are seriously into their mushrooms consider sampling other species and strains and find what they are most compatible with.


Well, I would love for you to document this and prove me wrong, because I would love to grow some. I've been on all the mushroom forums and some of the best guys on there couldn't grow them.
 
Bancopuma
#33 Posted : 4/14/2012 7:32:23 PM

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Have faith dude it can be done! This is the guide that brought me success. I know the guy that wrote it and we have been experimenting with different set ups for a while, he has recently updated this guide to include a few details that will increase chances of success.
 
behindthelight
#34 Posted : 4/14/2012 8:03:46 PM
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Thanks man. Just downloaded it. I will check it out.
 
Malaclypse
#35 Posted : 4/14/2012 10:02:15 PM

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jamie wrote:
Ringworm wrote:
Pan cyan, Psil azure et el are a much higher experience then cubensis. After a handful of journeys with azures for instance I don't bother picking cubes despite their local availability.


I have nto worked with psilocybe azurescens, but I have worked alot with psilocybe cyanescens and cubes and cyans are more clear like DMT..not hat cubes are not like DMT as well..but psilo cyans are much more potent. .5g of cyans is like 2g of cubes but cleaner.

Azures though I lost interest in after many people claimed to have muslce seizures with them and had to stop taking them.


Jamie, just curious as I recall you were a proponent of the Lemon tek method. Were both types ingested this way? I ask, because the last time I took Cubes was the first time that I ever lemon tek and they seemed much clearer that I remember, with much less body load while at the same time being very visual and deep. I used to be a real sensitive guy and often threw up when just munching on dried cubes. In a scientific exploration sense I want to take the same mushrooms again the old fashioned way to compare, but I don't partake very much these days and the lemon tek was so great that I kind of doubt I will.

Since more of the psilocybin gets converted to Psilocin via lemon tek so that is probably a big part of it, but curious if even with that variable taken out (via lemon tek on both) you noticed a significant difference between the two.
 
jamie
#36 Posted : 4/14/2012 11:34:21 PM

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yes I have done the lemon tek with both cubes and psilocybe cyans many many times..I find that a lemon tea does clean up the effects(especially body effects) with both species but cyans are still alot more powerful and a but different. Honestly though if cubes are not DMT like enough for most people than I dunno what is, other than DMT itself. You take enough cubes and you can break through into hyperspace.
Long live the unwoke.
 
behindthelight
#37 Posted : 4/15/2012 3:24:24 AM
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Well I have done 7grams of strong cubes many times and had some incredible trips....nothing like a breakthrough, but they were powerful....cannot wait for my first spice trip....GVG is on the way..!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
semios
#38 Posted : 4/15/2012 5:52:30 PM

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Agree with all of the above. I have not tried pan cyans but have harvested psilocybe cyans for years here in the PNW. They can be a little dark, but they synergize very nicely with MDMA, which lightens them up. I've had many great deep experiences with that combination, from shroom-heavy trips with just enough MDMA to keep it light (like 50 MG), to MDMA-fuelled dance-trances with just enough ps cyans to give me swirling fractals inside my eyelids as I lose myself in the dusty beat.

And yes I am sold on the lemon tek. Did 1 gram of dry wild ps cyans via lemon tek early in 2012 and had a strong experience with open eye hallucinations and zero body load. Went a little dark at the end.
 
Amphiprion
#39 Posted : 4/18/2012 8:38:43 AM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:
behindthelight wrote:
Bancopuma wrote:
Also if you can grow cubensis from scratch you can definitely grow Pan cyans.


This is definitely false. They are extremely difficult to grow. Nothing like cubes.

This is far from what I understand to be true.

While they do require careful attention to certain aspects that cubes do not, there are many similarities. For example, if you choose to not make an initial poo substrate to inoculate in jars/bags:

You can make an lc (such as 2-4% karo solution) and inoculate with spores, just like cubes
You can inoculate rye/wbs with either Pan multispore or lc, just like cubes
You can spawn to bulk sub (although it should include cow/horse poo), just like cubes

Then it gets different, you pretty much need a casing layer, albeit a thin one, afaik. Additionally, from what I understand, you want fruiting conditions to be high in both humidity and air exchange and you do not want to mist once pins appear, as doing so will cause the pins to abort. Theoretically you also want slightly warmer temps than cubes through the spawn run/casing/pinning...but I've heard that they do just fine in the same temperature parameters as cubes and seen grows that appear to demonstrate this to be true.



Snozzles is correct here, as he is in alot of his postings.

Regards
Amphi
 
majesticnature
#40 Posted : 4/24/2012 8:04:09 PM

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@Bancopuma- I agree and with what you are saying about the pan cyans

I know cubes and pan cyans are two different strains but are they also considered two different species?

Anyway Cubes are like a smack in the face psychadelic which offers its own quality of trip to your body and mind which is very rewarding but also a bumpier ride. Cubes seems to smack your third eye and wipe it squeeky clean. There seems to be a little bit of a more scared or paranoid feeling associated with cubes especially certain strains in my experience. They are still a great experience when you get past that.

Pan cyans are smoother and kinda seem too make your whole body turn on to this glow. They really seem to grab your entire being. They dont really seem to give as much that squeeky clean third eye feeling so in essence you give and you take.
All of my post are fictional in nature for the purpose of self entertainment.
 
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