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salvia as aya prep... Options
 
jamie
#1 Posted : 12/22/2008 2:46:13 AM

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Hey, heres a thread Icame across over at aya.com where this person explains how an ayahuasquero they were working with uses salvia divinorum for aya ceremonies...very interesting..
http://forums.ayahuasca....bb/viewtopic.php?t=15003 down the page a lil, posted by druiddream...

I have myself wondered about the implications of aya and the sage after browsing zoe7's site. The shaman says that timing is important with the sage, and he uses it BEFORE the aya is drank in place of datura, and it widens his aya visions, amaringo style...
Long live the unwoke.
 

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'Coatl
#2 Posted : 12/22/2008 3:05:08 AM

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Druiddream from the Aya' forums says-

Quote:
A shaman, Roberto de la Luna, with whom I was in corresondence confided in me one of the greatest secrets of all when working with these two plants together. The trick, he wrote me, is the timing. They should not be used simultaneously, but rather the Salvia (La Maria, he called it) should be quidded or smoked BEFORE the brew is taken so that there is no Salvia peak interfering with the brew. That way, the brews are gently overlaid over a baseline, barely noticeable, of a Salvia afterglow rather than a heavy disorienting peak.

When Roberto has the brew 45 min-1 hour after smoked Salvia, all the plants, he says, mix together for him harmoniously to produce intensely breathtakingly colorful, crystal-clear panoramic landscapes that remind him of the sweeping panoramic visions in Pablo Amaringo's "Ayahuasca Visions", where in every corner, entities were all at work doing completely unrelated activities, and he said you had to choose where to focus your attention because the vision was so complex. Fully formed landscapes appeared, he said, which normally did not occur with aya (at least not at such modest doses).

It appears that Salvia can act, in this regard, as a safe substitute for datura, another analgesic dissociative, that may be responsible for panoramic Amaringo-like visions.

And there is no urgency to understand everything under pressure quickly as with Salvia alone. The window to the spirit world is wide open, and the breeze just gently blows through, ruffling the curtains...

Smoking or quidding Salvia while taking the brew, he says, is too overwhelming, infinitely confusing, and can make the patient very confused about which of any number of multidimensional realities s/he is supposed to be in, if any, at all. Sometimes, he says, the realities will try to trick you as you pass through several. Then the reality that you think is the one you belong in will suddenly turn out to be part of a dream from the perspective of another reality, and then that one can become a dream inside yet another waking reality, which turns out to be yet another dream. This can go on to a point that is totally ungrounding and takes quite a lot of experience to navigate in a psychologically safe manner.

This coming totally ungrounded is not for the faint of heart, he said, and should only be done by experienced shamans with vast experience in the realms, and by someone who is intimately familiar with Salvia's tricks. Remember, he told me, Salvia alone is already very tricky and slippery. However, the method he described of predosing with Salvia and waiting until post-peak levels have been reached is more straightforward to navigate, and at that point has the feel of an ayahuasca experience, but might astonish one because of the "new and improved look". Furthermore, this makes incorporating Salvia into your journey free of the anxiety that is so typical of a Salvia peak without the multidimensional "slippage".

P.S. Likewise, Roberto points out that Salvia should be adminstered BEFORE a yopo experience as well, otherwise the two "clash" for dominance.

DRUID


I totally agree with this and think that Saliva is def. a safer alternative and it sounds just wonderful to use when working with Ayahuasca! I bet theres a number of methods that work well with Aya' and saliva!

I think mushrooms and saliva or mushrooms and Aya' could be very intersting as well! Perhap Mushrooms + Ayahuasca + Saliva?!

WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
jamie
#3 Posted : 12/22/2008 5:30:01 AM

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yes, I also found this part particularily interesting...

Druiddream writes:
Remember, the goal is not necessarily to have a full-on Salvia experience in the prepartory dance with Her, but to *prepare* an ayahuasca experience that is to follow.

Think of this in the same way as you might about preparing your space and intentions with other shamanic "herbs and spices", such as tobacco, copal, and Palo Santo. Once you realign your thoughts and feelings about Salvia in this way and incorporate her as a kind of tobacco, then you will intuitively understand much better how to work with Her, and She will even guide you, if you just listen. She came to Roberto in a dream and told him, "Mapacho and I are siblings. Salvia is a kind of tobacco. Mint Tobacco". At first he thought the message absurd: Salvia is no relative of tobacco. Ah, but in the shamanic realms, on an energetic level, yes, they are.

Salvia can even participate in your ceremony as an *incense* (which smells, btw, infinitely better than smoked Salvia --very fragrant and sweet!), or chewed with an incense of Salvia wafting. Just as it is not the goal to have a full-on shamanic tobacco experience with eyes rolling up in your head before your brew, but rather a gentle meditation on purity and cleansing, so it is not the goal to have a full-on Salvia experience, but rather a gentle dipping your toes into her motionless crocodilian waters to ask for calm witness and clarity of vision: those are the medicines that she can offer which can aid you in your ayahuasca flight. Don't do too much, or the motionless crocodile will thrash and lunge!

You may not even know that She's doing Her work, but that does not matter. She is like the crocodile just below the surface of the water, with only her eyes barely visible if you look carefully, vigilantly. If you pay attention and watch for the clues, you will see that Salvia is *always* working, even in small amounts. The clues to watch for are not obvious alteration, but rather calm, stillness, relaxation, slight numbness, and meditative enhancement.

O, Beloved Salvia Mother, !Oye!
Grace me with your virgin leaves,
And spread your arms to hold me in your still Embrace.
Grant me your calm witness of the crocodile in wait,
And confer upon me your piercing clarity of vision.
Guide me and aid me to find the root cause of dis-ease buried deep within
!Oye. oye, Madre, oye!


Submitted respectfully this 27th day of June, 2007

DRUID

Long live the unwoke.
 
Jorkest
#4 Posted : 12/22/2008 1:29:31 PM

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have you ever read Zoe7's books Into The Void and Back From the Void...fucking amazing books..seriously..read them..the second one is a bit more grown up..but they are both great
it's a sound
 
jamie
#5 Posted : 12/23/2008 1:26:37 AM

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i read small parts I could find online, but i am going to order his books soon..same with martin balls book on salvia..
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mew
#6 Posted : 12/31/2008 11:31:53 PM

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in this sense, salvia dosent seem so daunting,
it is after all the diviner's sage
from the look of you, it helps to divine your message from the brew.

next brew i go through, ill definitely have that teacher present, hopefully shell impart upon me a lesson through which the real learning will begin.


just to get this outta my system

ABOOGABOOGABOOOGA!!!!

thanks for bearing with me there...
 
jamie
#7 Posted : 1/1/2009 6:01:06 AM

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Let us know how that goes when you do!..

i just smoked some chaliponga alkaloids bout 30 mins ago, and smoked some salvia plain leaf bout 2 hours ago..Though I dont think that the salvia really had any effect on it, other than maybe being in calmer state of mind going in...couldnt even break through, I smoked 4 big hits, probabily too far apart though..but it felt so beautiful, like a magical euphoria, walls breathing and crawling a bit, also felt like i wasnt even there at a point..could be the 5meo/dmt mix that hinders the breakthrough..

It is interesting though how I keep finding myself using the sage more and more as a sort of tobacco, though I never really smoked tobacco, only cigars once n a while. It calms me down so much at low doses, gives me the sleepy mellow/ my body feels good melatonin feeling.. Then, I can also use her for a full on entheogenic experiene like no other...

Long live the unwoke.
 
 
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