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Making Homeopathic remedies from psychedelics to help mental disorders Options
 
jamie
#41 Posted : 12/23/2008 5:08:27 AM

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haha, i hang out at this famous beach(wreck beach) alot, and there is this oriental dude that sells pizza and this mix he calls herbal rescure 911...10 bucks for a bag of this stuff he mixes up cus so many hippies hang otu there, Ive seen days where i swear theres like 200 ppl on mushrooms all at once.. I tried to get him to tell me what was in it, but he wouldnt give up his secret.. He was like, hey man, if your fucked on shrooms, your fuckedup on pot or LSD you take herbal rescure 911 and its all ok..haha
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
burnt
#42 Posted : 12/24/2008 5:49:58 PM

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Ok jorkest so the dilution is actually that low that clarifies it a bit, basically no active "molecules" in the concoctions. So how does it heal then? You mentioned energy signatures of the molecule on the water but I don't understand what you meant by that? And yes now I understand the difference between herbal medicine and homeopathic medicine although I think some homeopathic remedies do use herbal medicine or is that incorrect?
 
Jorkest
#43 Posted : 12/24/2008 6:48:48 PM

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some of the creams do have some molecules in it..they may be 3x or around that..

well see thats just it..they dont know why it works..but it works in animals and babies and people (even unconscious)
it's a sound
 
burnt
#44 Posted : 12/24/2008 11:45:52 PM

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^^Another question. Some of the conditions you have mentioned could they just be cured simply by time? Or a change of attitude. Especially stress related conditions.

What about a serious cancer? Or tuberculosis?

Also you have mentioned that there have been "thousands" of studies done? Can you please point me to one real peer reviewed study. I do not take anectodal reports as a "study". I can't find any.
 
Jorkest
#45 Posted : 12/25/2008 12:17:19 AM

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well of course a sore throat can be cured by time..so can croup..but when using homeopathics the time is dramatically decreased..also with pink eye..if you get it and dont treat it..it can get very bad..with puss getting all over your eye..but when treated with homeopathic remedies you can be rid of it in as soon as a day..

here is another example..say you get a really nasty sprain..you can use arnica montana..as a cream and oral remedy...ive had sprains that were just absolutely painful..and wouldnt go away..but as soon as you start using arnica..its better within 6 hours..sometimes sooner

the creams do have molecules of the substance in them..but very little..
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#46 Posted : 12/25/2008 12:25:12 AM

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they are called provings
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#47 Posted : 12/25/2008 12:25:29 AM

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http://www.hominf.org/lsd/lsdframe.htm

this is a proving of LSD
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#48 Posted : 12/25/2008 12:41:39 AM

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Homeopathic vs Conventional Treatment of Vertigo

A Randomized Double-blind Controlled Clinical Study

http://archotol.ama-assn...tent/abstract/124/8/879

http://nationalcenterfor...hy.org/articles/view,68

http://findarticles.com/...i_m0EIN/is_/ai_50244234

it's a sound
 
burnt
#49 Posted : 12/27/2008 6:43:17 PM

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What else is present in the creams? Obviously emulsifiers and other things are put into the creams to make a cream. Are they themselves ineffective or could they also be playing a role? They could be enhancing penetration of the herbs or other substances that are added to the cream?

Anyway now that I think I understand what homeopathy is your idea is to use homeopathic remedies to treat mental illness with psychedelics? Has it ever been done? I have been under the suspicion that low doses of lets say dmt could be good for depression and perhaps some other substances could work for other ailments but these are low doses and not diluted below the limit of detection doses.

The first study about vertigo used samples of this homeopathic remedy and denoted the concentrations with the letter D and a number. I am unsure what that means do you know? If there is a known concentration of substance is this different then the type of preparations you were talking about earlier?
 
live4themusic
#50 Posted : 5/20/2009 11:47:37 AM
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so if I make a dilution from an antipsychotic can it make me trip?
 
Infundibulum
#51 Posted : 5/20/2009 12:04:39 PM

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live4themusic wrote:
so if I make a dilution from an antipsychotic can it make me trip?

How did you come to this conclusion?


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SWIMfriend
#52 Posted : 5/20/2009 5:07:47 PM

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"Real" homeopathy is a complete and utter fantasy. It is based on using a truly MINUTE fraction of the "illness causing" molecule to treat the disease. The dilutions they use are EXTREME--if properly done you end up getting only a few molecules of the substance. Does anyone really believe that taking a "few more molecules" of a psychedelic is going to modify a previous dose in any manner?

Please note that I'm NOT arguing against "alternative medicine" or herbal medicine. I'm specifically arguing against homeopathy, which is EXCLUSIVELY based on the (ridiculous) theory that vanishingly small doses of a substance will have curative effects (and again, ideal homeopathic dosings are so small they typically only involve nearly COUNTABLE quanitites of molecules).
 
Jorkest
#53 Posted : 5/20/2009 5:47:50 PM

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actually normal homeopathic doses have absolutely NO molecules in them

Quote:
since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original substance dissolved in a minimum of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would require a container more than 30,000,000,000 times the size of the Earth.


and the reason why i know they work..because they have worked many times on babies..and babies dont understand placebo..they dont even know they are taking anything
it's a sound
 
SWIMfriend
#54 Posted : 5/20/2009 5:51:39 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
actually normal homeopathic doses have absolutely NO molecules in them

Quote:
since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original substance dissolved in a minimum of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would require a container more than 30,000,000,000 times the size of the Earth.


and the reason why i know they work..because they have worked many times on babies..and babies dont understand placebo..they dont even know they are taking anything


Here is a short, debunking video about homeopathy. People aren't aware of how silly it is because they never bothered to find out exactly what homeopathy IS. It's something very simple and straightforward and...ridiculous.
 
Jorkest
#55 Posted : 5/20/2009 7:14:03 PM

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well i know they work based on experience...i have seen them work where conventional medicine did nothing...

its sort of like arguing about whether entities are real or not...the people that have experiences that prove to THEM that they are real will think they are real...people that dont...wont..

and i have seen homeopathic remedies work hundreds of times..and hey..its basically FREE medicine..

i have studied homeopathy for years so i understand it and how its supposed to work..

its basically using water to transmit information to the body..sorta like how water is a conduit for information during spice experiences..
it's a sound
 
SWIMfriend
#56 Posted : 5/20/2009 7:25:30 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
well i know they work based on experience...i have seen them work where conventional medicine did nothing...

its sort of like arguing about whether entities are real or not...the people that have experiences that prove to THEM that they are real will think they are real...people that dont...wont..

and i have seen homeopathic remedies work hundreds of times..and hey..its basically FREE medicine..

i have studied homeopathy for years so i understand it and how its supposed to work..

its basically using water to transmit information to the body..sorta like how water is a conduit for information during spice experiences..


You probably have a very robust placebo response.

The idea of working on "water memory" is internally inconsistent. The dilutions are SO MINUTE that they will be SWAMPED by stray and unexpected molecules still present in even the MOST HIGHLY PURIFIED WATER created by modern equipment (or by natural, or human engineered, distillation). ANY water you can acquire will have any NUMBER of bizarre and unexpected molecules in it--and thus have all sorts of (imagined) "memories." It's that internal contradiction (that homeopaths begin with "blank" water) that proves that their ideas are bogus.
 
Jorkest
#57 Posted : 5/20/2009 7:46:41 PM

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well just because they dont understand how it works isnt going to keep me from practicing it..ive seen it work..i know it works..and I am going to keep using them...i really dont care that you dont think they work..

and here is the robust placebo response

they work on BABIES...i had croup when i was very very young...Croup is a common childhood illness that causes a croupy cough that sounds like a barking seal, stridor and difficulty breathing..my mother gave me Spongia and within one hour my breathing was back to normal...while other babies in the area were hospitalized for days in oxygen tents..

ive had pink eye..you know when you get pink eyes..and lots of crusty shit that makes your eyes stick together...well i went to the doctor and they gave me a goo that i had to put IN my eye everyday three times a day for a week..i was like..fuck that shit..because it sucks..and took Pulsatilla three times a day for two days..and it was gone on the second day...

they work for me..so i use them..im sure you have plenty of experience with them to make statements like they dont work..
it's a sound
 
live4themusic
#58 Posted : 5/20/2009 8:21:42 PM
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Infundibulum wrote:
live4themusic wrote:
so if I make a dilution from an antipsychotic can it make me trip?

How did you come to this conclusion?



Well I was kinda joking... Homeopathy uses a dilution of something to cure it. I was joking about how if you made a dilution of an antipsychotic it would make you hallucinate (since antipsychotics cause cessation of hallucinations)

I had a homeopath eye drop one time called "Clear Eyes" (red eye remover). I bought it before noticing the package said homeopathic. It didn't work at all, but on the other hand, normal red eye removers usually don't get the red out either (visine just makes my eyes look glassy but still red).

Even though I don't think there's any credibility to homeopathy, I think I might try a homeopathic remedy or medicine once more even though I expect it to be useless. No harm in trying again, and it's really unfair to completely write it off until I've tried it a couple times.
 
ohayoco
#59 Posted : 5/20/2009 8:35:35 PM
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I think homeopathy probably equates with faith healing, with your faith placed in a placebo pill instead of a priest.

The only person I ever knew who took homeopathic remedies was brought up in a Christian commune, which figures given how much faith one would assume they had. New-agers are even more into this stuff I expect... to me they're religous people who have rejected mainstream religion. Two sides of the same coin- they have faith, without proof.

If other instructions are given involving diet etc then these could have some effect too... telling someone to eat healthily or not get drunk or not stress themselves out etc is obviously going to help them get better. When I'm looking after myself, I never get ill full stop. I feel a sore throat coming on, so I look after myself- good food, no stress, no booze, being nice to myself in every way... and it disappears immediately. If I can feel a cold coming but I have to work hard or stay up late or drink then WHAM, full-blown nasty cold hits me.

Jorkest wrote:
and here is the robust placebo response


I don't really think your response to the placebo argument is robust. For example, I would guess that your body cured itself of croup, or something else that had been misidentified as croup, and that the homeopathy treatment was coincidental. Your parent's faith in the homeopathy acted as a perception filter that produced the conclusion that the placebo pill had cured you. That seems more plausible to me.

If homeopathy really does work for you, and the pills really don't contain anything active, then I believe it's nothing to do with the pills, and you are healing yourself.

But as Burnt says, maybe there is something in them... but I very much doubt it works in the way the homeopathic enthusiasts describe.
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SWIMfriend
#60 Posted : 5/20/2009 9:06:37 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
...and here is the robust placebo response they work on BABIES....


That's the problem with anecdotal reports of healing: ALMOST ALL sickness is ultimately cured and healed by the body itself. Unfounded correlations between some "treatment" and the natural response of the body itself then causes people to "believe" the treatment worked. This goes on constantly (because people are not taught in school how to think critically), and it's how faith healers and "snake oil" purveyors have made their livings since forever.

No substantial and objective medical study has demonstrated any effect from homeopathic medicines. Sometimes it's very difficult to be clear about the effects of even known and accepted drugs--and many accepted drugs that had been thought to work were eventually shown to actually NOT work. But beyond the fact that there's no good EVIDENCE that homeopathics work lies the fact that they are based on what is clearly bunk: that nearly non-existent quantities of materials (OR the "memory" of those materials in water) can cure diseases. Why is it clearly bunk? Because the concentrations used are VASTLY FAR BELOW the concentrations (and thus "water memories"Pleased found in even THE MOST HIGHLY PURIFIED WATER KNOWN. In other words: by homeopathic theory tap water alone should be able to cure all diseases, since it contains extremely small quantities of virtually all elements and many many MANY molecules--and thus the "water memories" of those elements and molecules as well.

It's said that with every breath you take you probably inhale 14 (I think that's the estimate) molecules of O2 that jesus (or Hitler if you prefer) ALSO inhaled. If you start thinking in terms of molecules (and dust, dirt, pollen, bacteria, viruses in the air, and on and on) you can begin to imagine the vast collection of molecules that are contained in vanishingly small quantities in the water we drink. Adding some more at (theoretical) concentrations MILLIONS of times LOWER is simply meaningless.
 
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