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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
nen888
#181 Posted : 11/14/2011 2:01:31 PM
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..hey all,

the INDEX is now just on p1 (originally posted here) as it's stating to confuse me..
 

Psychedelic news, articles, interviews and art from the DMT-Nexus and other sources.
 
endlessness
#182 Posted : 11/14/2011 2:20:39 PM

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Thanks Nen! I suggest adding (and updating when it changes) this index to the first post too!

By the way, dont know if you saw but I started adding these acacias to the wikipages of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT:
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...T#Plants_containing_DMT
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...ts_containing_5-MeO-DMT

If you click on the name of the acacias, I have started adding an own page for them, and made a little structure to make it easier to fill in, for example:

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Acacia_difformis

Some pages, though, are still just relinks from normal wikipedia, which with time I'll change and just keep our own structure (and if people want the normal wikipedia info they can just go there, so we have our own special info for these plants). For example: https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Acacia_cultriformis . If you want to edit those pages, just remove the {{wikipedia}} code and copy-paste the structure from other acacias.

The only thing is with the pictures, AFAIK you need to upload them specially in the wiki page for them to appear there.

BTW, as you see, im keeping the acacia list divided by substances, but the full list will be in the botanicals page

With a month or two we should have these pages full of the best info around the net Smile Thanks for the work nen!
 
nen888
#183 Posted : 11/14/2011 2:33:27 PM
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..thank you endlessness, the new wiki format is a great improvement..Smile
i'd better get into what i can contribute..i know wira's been doing a bit in the normal wikipedia already...

ps.i'm not sure what substance category to put A. rigidula in!
 
nen888
#184 Posted : 11/16/2011 5:50:28 AM
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..i have included two links to relevant threads in the nexus:

question about my acacia spice in which what is eventually identified as A. provincialis is bio-assyed for the first time by Yatiqiri..it should be noted that both A. retinoides and A. saligna are recorded from Bolivia, so the tree may still be a hybrid of the two (as provincialis was once thought to be) ..alkaloids still unknown..

Confusa Extraction ..an ongoing and groovy experiment by DoingKermit...see post#217 below for more on A. confusa..

here are Acacia provincialis (Australia and internationally grown) & Acacia confusa (S.E. Asia)
nen888 attached the following image(s):
a. provincialis, victoria.jpg (25kb) downloaded 1,360 time(s).
Acacia_confusa.jpg (33kb) downloaded 1,358 time(s).
 
nen888
#185 Posted : 11/18/2011 5:27:46 AM
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..there is a lot of research in progress right now, so hopefully 2012 will be a big year for world acacia breakthroughs..

..here are a few more images for Middle Eastern (and north african) researchers of acacia mysteries, of
Acacia albida (synon. Faindherbia albida) (Ana Tree, Winter Thorn)
considered by some to be Moses' burning bush, found by a few Israeli's to contain usable tryptamines (see p.2,6,7)
[EDIT: the tree on Mt. Sinai is A. tortillis sub sp. raddiana..see p48]..Ana tree does, however contain tryptamines..
..it is fairly common in the region..more formal tests needed..a good one to grow for historical and maybe holy reasons...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
A. albida.jpg (47kb) downloaded 1,335 time(s).
Fabaceae-Faidherbia-albida-Acacia-albida-Faidherbia-Cad-Gao.jpg (179kb) downloaded 1,333 time(s).
acacia_albida flowers.jpg (87kb) downloaded 1,333 time(s).
 
nen888
#186 Posted : 11/18/2011 10:33:19 AM
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..as i mentioned it in another thread, here is Acacia baileyana (Cootamundra Wattle) (native E. Australia, widely grown world-wide),
found in one test to contain tryptamine one time of year, and ß-carbolines including tetra-hydroharmine at another [Chemotaxonomie der Pflanzen by Robert Hegnauer, and Tikhal]..an underground report i heard second-hand suggested small amounts of other tryptamines may have been found..a good one for the curious researcher..

a striking ornamental, known to be cultivated in England and the USA...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia baileyana.JPG (37kb) downloaded 1,311 time(s).
acacia_baileyana.jpg (299kb) downloaded 1,310 time(s).
 
Major Tom
#187 Posted : 11/25/2011 9:00:23 AM
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Hi . I have quickly read this thread and interested in alkaloid content of different species . One factor that may be being overlooked is the seasonal variation of alkaloid content and composition . Shulgin refers to this in TIHKAL , and it is something to maybe consider . For me it adds to the confusion and mystery of this amazing genus .
 
nen888
#188 Posted : 11/26/2011 5:29:37 AM
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..Hi, and welcome Major TomSmile
seasonal variation has been mentioned briefly in the thread, but yes, you're right, it's a major factor in many acacias..the variation can be both quantitive and/or qualitative..it's difficult to cover in detail because it varies a lot with species and geography..A. baiyelana is a classic example of apparent qualitative seasonal variation, as is A. obtusifolia, which is also genetically and geographically variable..A. acuminata, on the other hand, seems to only vary in quantity (between 0.6-1.8% mainly dimethyltryptamine) seasonally..the researcher working closely with individual populations of plants can usually, over a year or two, pinpoint the variation...
......................................................................................................................

found two more references for African species: Acacia polyacantha spp. camplyacantha in Sudan contained small amounts of DMT in dried leaves [Kahil & Elkheir 1975], as well as the flavonoids Rutin and Vicenin 2. They also found DMT in the leaves of Acacia senegal..the small amount finding may simply be due to the screening methodology..many such initial tests involve quick, cold washing of the plant material, which would not be an efficent extraction of the total amount of alkaloid present..not to mention above mentioned seasonal variation.. also, the bark was not studied, which can sometimes contain alkaloids absent or only trace in the leaves of acacias (have been updating references in africa species list)

below are two pics each of A. polyacantha spp.camplyacantha & A. senegal...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia_polyacantha.jpg (64kb) downloaded 1,261 time(s).
acacia_polyacantha_subsp_campylacantha_reference.jpg (62kb) downloaded 1,254 time(s).
acacia sengal (gumarabic tree).jpg (44kb) downloaded 1,242 time(s).
acacia_senegal_reference.jpg (51kb) downloaded 1,241 time(s).
 
nen888
#189 Posted : 11/30/2011 12:13:25 AM
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..it is of note that the flavonoid rutin, found with dmt in the leaves of A. polyacantha spp. camplyacantha, is an MAO inhibitor..
flavonoids are found in a number of australian acacias which has been of ongoing research for a few years, more on that in the future..it's also interesting that the flowers of A. senegal are quite similar to the australian acacias floribunda & obtusifolia..

..i have a tip-off that some more Pacific island acacias of tryptamine interest will be announced soon..in the mean while i spotted
an alkaloidally exotic tree from New Caledonia..Acacia spirorbis which was found to contain N-cinnamoyl-histamine and a little hordenine [Pouat and Sevenet 1975]. A bark preparation is traditionally used to treat rheumatism, and leaves to treat malaria..
a little more on the newish research field of Histamines..

Histamine is an endogenous neurotransmitter or hormone, generally described in chemical literature as a potent vasodilator.
Voogelbreinder (2009) wrote:
Quote:
It has weak direct effects, but strongly potentiates excitatory signals. It is excitatory in the CNS...facilitating arousal, sensitisation and blood flow, as well as powerfully stimulating cAMP. It may aid in memory retention.

..it's internal bio-pharmacology is complex..histamine may play a role in neural repair..it seems in administration to not be acutely toxic (previously thought histamine-poisoning from fish turned out to be another compound ) and when taken orally is mostly prevented by an intestinal barrier from reaching the circulation..it is oxidized by the enzymes MAO-B and N-methyltransferate (also, confusingly, sometimes called 'nmt' ) ..it has ongoing research in neurochemistry and theraputic uses..oral LD50 in mice reported 220mg/kg [Japanese Journal of Toxicology. Vol. 4, Pg. 105, 1991.]
..the pharmacology of the histamine derivatives found in some acacias (incl. longifolia var. sophorae and simplicifolia) is barely researched or understood..

the frontiers of acacia research reach deep and far..
.

below is the structure of N-cinnamoylhistamine [N-[2-(1H-imidazol-5-yl)ethyl]-3-phenylprop-2-enamide], also known from A. longifolia var. sophorae.. histamine freebase is a white hygrocopic solid, soluble in water, so histamines should stay in the polar fraction of an extraction..

& below that is Acacia spirorbis from New Caledonia , and A. spirorbis subsp. solandra which is found in QLD, Australia..it has not been alkaloid tested and is very similar to other section Juliflorae acacias which have been found to contain dmt..A. longifolia has tryptamine & histamine types, so there is some mirroring and genetic relation here..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
N-cinnamoylhistamine structure.jpg (37kb) downloaded 1,228 time(s).
acacia_spirorbis (New Caledonia).jpg (134kb) downloaded 1,219 time(s).
A. spirorbis subsp. solandra.jpg (74kb) downloaded 1,214 time(s).
 
nen888
#190 Posted : 12/1/2011 4:28:23 AM
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..on the subject of monoamine oxidase inhibitors and acacias, a plant in need of more follow up research is Acacia complanata (eastern Australia)
Johns, Lamberton and Sioumis (1966) found in the leaves and twigs 0.3% N-methyl-tetrahydroharman with a little tetrahydroharman..it is not known what the MAOI strength or pyschoactive effects of these harmalas is..harman has recently been shown to be an effective MAO inhibitor [Heraiz 2007].
..i know that some specimens have considerably more bitter tasting leaves than others..a small amount of extract of a less bitter variety was assayed by Mulga in the mid 90s with inconclusive results..i found a tea of 20 leaves of the bitter variety to be quite sedative..

here is the 1966 paper: Nb-Methyltetrahydroharman from Acacia complanata

seeds are fairly easily available, it quite likes rocky/gravelly conditions..
.
nen888 attached the following image(s):
a_complanata_9.jpg (74kb) downloaded 1,192 time(s).
Acacia Complanata.jpg (81kb) downloaded 1,187 time(s).
 
blackmore
#191 Posted : 12/4/2011 6:47:56 AM
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Hey guys this is a bit off topic but I'm about to do my first extraction and I have found dozens of 20m+ Acacia Maidenii trees as well as a couple of other species to. Obliviously I want to take as little as possible from these trees (I am also collecting seed pods as well and dispersing them in different areas as the area the trees are in will soon make way for a housing estate) so how deep do I need to cut the bark off the tree? I’m asking out of respect to plants I am taking from.

Also, great thread I've learnt alot from reading it
 
nen888
#192 Posted : 12/5/2011 7:50:11 AM
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..hi blackmore, the alkaloids are in the inner layer of bark, and not the wood..it is better for the tree to take only branch bark..in the case of maidenni, sometimes there are more alkaloids in the leaves (in the yielding strains)
strains with narrower, more leathery leaves are the active ones...
 
yatiqiri
#193 Posted : 12/6/2011 1:27:06 AM

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...an update on the alkaloid content of a possible Acacia Constricta tree I came across (my picture on the bottom of p 8, oficial A. Constricta shots on p9).

The tree had bits of dead bark on the trunk which I carefully collected, and extracted and yielded spice, around 1.2%. I tested it a couple of times, and think that at least part of the spice is DMT. a good vaporized hit reminded me very much of low level trips of DMT from mimosa. however other times it also had some effects that reminded me of bufotenin, or even the mystery spice from Acacia provincilis.

I want to grow this tree. I have a spot in my yard for a tree. However I only found 1, does that mean that it probably will not seed? is it possible to grow from cuttings?

thanks I`ll post any further updates,
yatiqiri attached the following image(s):
A.ConstrictaSpice.jpg (181kb) downloaded 1,148 time(s).
 
nen888
#194 Posted : 12/6/2011 2:10:15 AM
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..great work once again yatiqiri..Very happy ..and what fascinating looking crystals..! a small number of acacias can take from cuttings, but this usually requires rooting hormone and effort..
..isolated trees can produce seed without another to cross-pollinate with, though not usually every year..
..can't wait to find out what some of these mystery alkaloids are...

here's another Acacia constricta (native southern USA, Mexico, C. America) shot for comparison..[EDIT: yatiqiri's tree is more likely A. tortuosa..see p.12]
nen888 attached the following image(s):
acacia constricta_3.jpg (115kb) downloaded 1,118 time(s).
 
Friar Fnord
#195 Posted : 12/8/2011 3:17:19 AM

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Hi everyone,

Great work on such an awesome collection of information! Very handy, thanks!

Just a quick question regarding A. acuminata and the subsp. burkittii ..
Has anyone heard of subsp. burkittii and how closely related to acuminata it is and what properties it may contain?

Apparently it has slightly different phyllode shape, width and curvature. Any bioassay info available?

Cheers,
FF
Friar Fnord is merely a fictional character invented in the mind of the author and any information, scenarios or discussions which I write of are depictions of a roleplay to serve as inspiration for my book. I do not condone nor pratice any illegal activity I may pretend to write about as I do believe in upholding State and Federal laws. Any depiction of people alive or dead is purely coincidental and should be taken as a work of fiction.



"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." - Hassan i Sabbah X

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nen888
#196 Posted : 12/8/2011 9:22:42 AM
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..hi Friar Fnord, funnily enough i was recently at a very groovy conference in Victoria, in which a lot of new acacia information was discussed..
i can confirm that a smart individual known as 'J.J.' has found around 20 new australian species containing tryptamines using TLC, and GCMS..he is unsure about disseminating the info at this stage as a number of species are very rare, so i will remain sensitive to this at this stage in just mentioning a few of them..
firstly, Acacia acuminata subsp. burkittii contains good amounts of DMT in the bark (& probably phyllodes); also from WA, Acacia thoma contained more NMT than DMT along with ß-carbolines, and Acacia multisiliqua (N.T.,Qld,W.A) was tested a few times by J.J. positive for DMT, a few plants negative..
some great research going on..he uses Ehrlich's reagent BTW..hopefully he'll publish some of this work before too long..

..it was also re-confirmed at the conference (by chocobeastle) that around 1.2% DMT was extracted from Acacia mearnsii in central Victoria..four months later, however, the same tree had no alkaloids..i saw this tree everywhere in the area, and spot tests look good for tryptamine content..Acacia mearnsii (Black Wattle) is very common inland from Sydney to Melbourne..

more new info. soon..below are Acacia acuminata subsp. burkittii, A. multisiliqua and 2 of A. mearnsii...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
A. acuminata subsp. burkitii.jpg (229kb) downloaded 1,132 time(s).
Acacia multisiliqua.jpg (64kb) downloaded 1,122 time(s).
A. mearsnsii.jpg (174kb) downloaded 1,119 time(s).
Acacia mearnsii tree.jpg (156kb) downloaded 1,123 time(s).
 
nen888
#197 Posted : 12/9/2011 4:09:59 AM
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..regarding Acacia acuminata and it's sub varieties, it was mentioned to me by the acacia researcher, who had done many tests on the species-complex, that while most were high in DMT content (above 1%) all contained some ß-carbolines..sub species burkittii is often designated it's own species (A. burkittii)

..some very interesting research into pacific acacias was also announced at the conference, stemming
from their close genetic relationship to Acacia confusa, and i have updated the Pacific Island Acacias list on p.5 [#83]
.J.J. tested the Fiji growing Acacia simplicifolia (=simplex) which was found, like the New Caledonian, to be high in DMT and NMT (over 1%)
..Acacia richii (A. Grey) has been previously considered synonymous with A. confusa, and is found on a number of pacific islands including Fiji..it has tested positive for tryptamines.

..i noticed the data in this thread could be better on Acacia confusa (S.E. Asia), so i will mention that Liu et al. 1977 fround 2.85% alkaloid in the root bark (45% DMT, 55% NMT) making this the highest DMT content in any acacia* so far, though i should also mention that damaging roots can be harmful to the tree;
thankfully the main bark appears to contain around 1% DMT (main alkaloid) with a little NMT; leaves have yielded smaller amounts alkaloid, incl. DMT-N-oxide [Arthur et al. 1967; Lou et al. 1965; Buchannan et al. 2007]. Leaves also yielded flavonoid variations of myricetin [Lee, T.H. et al 2000]..it has been used in successful bio-assay with MAOIs a number of times [dmt-nexus]..more data is needed on confusa bark..as the root bark also contains a lot of NMT (in Liu's test), and the trunk bark has yielded mainly DMT, use of root bark may not be necessary for the majority of nexian's needs..here is an interesting nexus thread: Acacia confusa & Formohuasca..the oral activity may be due to flavonoids (not fully studied in the bark)

..moving to north africa and india, i notice Acacia nilotica stems and leaves have once tested positive for trace DMT and 5-meo-DMT, though later tested negative (not uncommon in plants) [Heffter 1996; Trout 1997; Voogelbreinder 2009]..there is also a reference to the finding of tryptamine and leptaflorine [Oliver-Bever "Medicinal Plants In Tropical West Africa1986] but i don't have the book..

*=A. simplicifolia had the highest total alkaloid (3.6%) but a smaller ratio of DMT to NMT/ß-carbolines..A. acuminata may be the highest, but is not formally tested yet..

NB. all thread list references are gradually updated..
.
 
nen888
#198 Posted : 12/12/2011 5:22:18 AM
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..i never expected this thread to go on this long..truth is i was gonna reveal a few species, make a few lists, and vanish..then i became a nexain! i remember being blown away when the thread got 100 views..also, the discovery of new active species on the thread (by PrimalWisdom, yatiqiri & chocobeastle so far) showed me the power of open-source research..

..recently, i observed 20grams of Acacia acuminata (Broad-leaf strain) phyllode were extracted A/B to yield a little over 200mg of alkaloid..it looked like some ß-carbolines were also present..there will be a detailed analysis in the near future..the yield confirms the multiple reports of up to 1.2% alkaloid in the leaf, and this really makes the species one of the most desirable to grow for nexian requirements..depending on the ß-carboline content this could well be the highest yielding in DMT photosynthetic part of a plant (Phalaris aquatica AQ1 having 1% mainly DMT, as confirmed recently on the nexus) ..leaves grow back a lot faster than bark, and this tree should tolerate down to minus 6 degrees C conditions..

..a detailed analysis will also hopefully be done in the near future of a tree i am terming A. obtusifolia x maidenii, until i have a chance to get deep with botanists..it has falcate, often acuminate phyllodes, slightly twisted pods, and has pale yellow (not cream) flowers in april, not december like true obtusifolia..both maidenni and obtusifolia were found growing at the site, and occasionally overlap flowering times with seasonal conditions..the alkaloid content in the leaf in cultivation is up to 0.7%..some botanists think maidenii is related to A. implexa, which is, to most knowledgeable in acacias, unlikely..

..lastly, i wanted to mention a very nice, but not common acacia from N. NSW and S.E. Qld..Acacia longissima..
experience with phyllode extracts showed 0.2-0.3% alkaloid with effects closer to P. viridis than other acacias..
the CSIRO (1990) found 0.2% phyllodes and 0.02% bark of an alkaloid they wouldn't identify..the content in phyllodes seems fairly stable..while the tree is not endangered, it is never abundant where found in the wild, meaning there are not many in any stand..
..very lovely acacia, needs more cultivation, especially for regen..

thanks everyone for the contributions to this thread..and thank you trees for such compassion..

Acacia longissima..


nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia_longissima_.jpg (185kb) downloaded 1,070 time(s).
longissima_.jpg (143kb) downloaded 1,065 time(s).
 
nen888
#199 Posted : 12/16/2011 2:21:40 AM
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..some information i wish i had gotten to yatiqiri while the presumed A.constricta was flowering, is as follows..

ACACIA GENETICS & SEX

..Acacia's are both female and male in the one tree..during the flowering period, of between 1-2 months, the sex of the pollen will change sex a number of times, alternating at roughly weekly to 12 day periods..
insect (and small bird) pollinators re-visit the trees at regular intervals, thus moving around male and female pollen, the combination required to produce seed..in a population, different trees will have either sex pollen simultaneously, increasing reproductive chances..

a method of aiding potential seed production of single isolated trees (such as in cultivation, or yatiqiri's a. constricta) is to, at different intervals such as weekly, collect pollen in a paper bag..upon each return during flowering place the pollen-filled bag over some of the flower heads, and shake..this way the tree is a lot more likely to get the required pollen of both sexes
..it is still worth looking out for seed, yatiqiri, as low pollination levels would mean only a few pods may form here or there (not easy to spot), and sometimes pods don't develop till months after flowering
..though it may be that acacias given a choice generally prefer slightly genetically different co-creators within their own species..

..by genetically different i refer to findings that many species of acacias are Polyploid..
many kinds of plants are Diploid, meaning they have two sets of DNA..double the chromosomes..each a slightly different set of instructions for characteristics..
polyploid means more than two times the DNA sets..some acacias have 4 X chromosomes, others 8 X or even 10..this is believed to give them the very rapid adaptational ability when conditions change, leading to their relatively quick diversification as many species, and also a result of easy genetic exchange between different species..there are many known cases of natural hybrids between acacia species..

it is also worth noting that hybrids are recorded (though not many) between 'spike/rod' and 'ball' type flower species..once a number of different potentially desirable species are being grown, pollen can be cold stored to allow for different flowering times, and potentially further desirable new hybrids bred, for content or to suit certain climates for instance..
........................................

ps. re A. acuminata, alienteaparty (and one of my friends) have reported yields from leaves of 1.5%, slightly seasonally varying but always above 0.6% according to the latter source..
.



 
nen888
#200 Posted : 12/16/2011 6:23:49 AM
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Last visit: 01-Dec-2020
..some test results coming through on acuminata leaf (broad leaf WA), obtusifolia twig (southern NSW) and obtusifolia x maidenii branch bark& leaf (in cultivation)..see Substance Testing section.. TLC so far..acuminata showing a few alkaloids incl.DMT/NMT, but surprisingly obtusifolia (from the same location as material tested by D. Siebert and found to be 2/3 NMT) looked like just DMT..tricky tree!Very happy
..GCMS next week may reveal other things..all very interesting..some samples of the same plants a different time of year could help formally demonstrate seasonal variation.. also there could be variation in part of plant..a test by Jeremy (2007 cited in Voogelbreinder 2009) found more NMT in obtusifolia phyllodes along with DMT, and previous findings of high NMT levels were from phyllodes (Siebert 1997 cited by nen) and bark/phyllodes (S.C. Uni. 2000) ..almost all previous tests have found small amounts of ß-carbolines..

..what's really good to know, so far, is that the small twigs of obtusifolia contained 0.6-0.7% of the alkaloid..this is the same level as the main bark, thus there is no need to damage the main trunk of the tree (which is harmful) for the desired benefits..
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