A FOAF has something they wanted to ask you guys, so I thought I'd post it and see what comes.

This person has done a number of extractions, and notices that when working with Sodium Carbonate or other lower PH bases in A/B teks, there is often an ample amount of foam. This is found as well with NaOH & KOH, but to a slightly lesser degree. This foam occurs even before the adding of Naptha, which makes the person in question suspect that while this foam can certainly contribute to emulsions, it is something seperate.

Once Naptha is added one finds this foam in a layer between the base soup and the Naptha. Trad emulsion may or may not be found in the Naptha layer like oil & vinegar salad dressing, but this always fades and is easy to get rid of. The foam on the other hand tends to hang around unless actively broken with salt.

None of this is any real problem, but being the curious kitty this person is... some experiments were done. Some of the foam seemed to be crystalizing or forming things that look suspiciously like DMT Acetates or Citrates. It would rise up in strings or form odd shapes occasionally, and didn't look anything like traped base soup per se. So, this SWIM chose to syphon out some of this stuff and evap it on glass in front of a fan.

To his surprise, this foam seemed to dry into what appear to be dirty DMT crystals. Waxy and orangier than the white white stuff that comes out of the freeze precips. Considering that on these occasions, the yeild had been somewhat lower than he had anticipated, he began to wonder if the lower yeild wasn't because of the 11.5 - 12.2 PH as he had been assuming (no NaOH was available at that time)... but rather that N-Oxide or other less soluable forms of DMT were making up this foam.

He took a tiny knife tip of the evapped material and lit it gently to catch a whiff, and sure enough the familiar DMT smell emerged. He thinks it is certainly full of other oils and things, but guesses it might be fairly potent... though he is too cautious to simply GVG it up for a bioassay.

Any thoughts about this?

The white, golden & orangey foam that percolates in these brews when dried would probably make up the difference in expected to actual yeild. Could this stuff... be already precipitated freebase or DMT salts that haven't converted for some reason?

[EDIT: He says some of it is quite solid and clumpy... and instead of being air bubbles, a lot of these little bubble-like dudes seem to be crystals]

SWIM has the feeling that much of this particular foam stuff is a type of oxidated DMT that won't precipitate into the NPS.

I suppose he should probably collect it all and attemtp a Re-Xtal on the stuff. He claims the stuff smells exactly like spice when burnt.

Out of curiosity... if someone WERE to smoalk impure stuff that was contaminated with basic soup, what do you guys think the worst that would occur could be? After all, lye or other mineral bases are not likely to burn at vape temps, naptha evaps cleanly, and all the rest is MHRB, vinegar or lemon juice.

[side note: If one were to use Apple Cider Vinegar instead of distilled white, would the extra apple cider substances cause negative effects?]

perhaps list what tek you used and which ratios you used. talk about the procedure a little bit, so maybe someone can be of more help?

those tiny bubbles are PROBABLY a minor emulsion and you can fix that by adding more lye/water.

SWIM used a composite A/B tek on shredded MHRB. He'll go back to powdered on his next order, but letting any MHRB go to waste seems sacreligious. Hehehe. Anyway, pretty much classic save for not reducing the acidic tea before making it basic. SWIM had begun to be adverse to the heat and airflow needed to reduce 5L down to 1L or less. This obviously creates a good deal of N-oxides, and he wasn't sure how the soluable oxides were in Naptha. He's read different things about what temps are safe for DMT. Anywhere from 40 to 100 C, with the most people saying 60.

SWIM also knows that if he had some Lye or KOH, he could basify this stuff further and the foam would probably disintegrate and release whatever goodies it contains into the NPS.

However, he is interested in understanding the dynamics at work here. He knows how to get white stuff, but isn't all that impressed with the white vs. yellow or orange in bioassys... especially considering the lower yeilds. He will probably attempt some large crystal crowing in the future just for fun and keep these for connoisseur sessions or showing off... but he would like to find out if this foam (which he is pretty sure is not typical emulsion) might be holding the coveted jim jam & oils, n-oxides, or other substances. If it is as he suspects, it might be possible to create a decent jungle spice simply by syphoning some of this golden foam up with the clear and cloudy naptha. He imagines he would probably have to evap rather than freeze precip, though.

Even if there are particles of MHRB powder, basic soup, or other impurities trapped up in that stuff, he doubts that smoking it would be all that toxic. Still, careful kitty that he is, he wants some other (extraction masters' opinions before proceeding. There is no rush with this, as he has a small bit of decent spice left over from previous extractions, and sees no harm in leaving these jars to sit for however long.

whats stopping you from getting something to basify your solution? that would fix your problem. get the rest of the dmt with naphtha, then go back with another solvent for the jungle spice after?

try to get a picture if you can.

at least you have a stash to last you while we figure this out.

SWIM is interested in what the "insoluble" in Naphtha stuff is. This has been discussed ad infinitum on threads he guesses. It is surely psychoactive stuff. What it is? Who knows? N-oxides that get pulled with hot Naphtha. Oils, Jim Jam, g*d knows...

Well somebody probably knows.

Anyone who has spent an unholy amount of time studying these odd vessels and their goodies still wonders what they are missing.