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question about my acacia spice Options
 
DeMenTed
#21 Posted : 7/22/2011 10:36:05 PM

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nen888 wrote:
Quote:
Ive had dmt trips with no MAOI that lasted an hour.

..was this with plant extract? was it tested pure in some way?
were any other(even mild) psychoactive substances(e.g cannibis,blue lotus etc.), herbs etc taken prior to the trip?
(substances other than MAOIs can lengthen a dmt experience.)

i agree that even with pure n,n dmt the effect could be said to last for an hr., the usual
"peak" window is about 10-20mins, the overall strong effect over within an hour.(on average)

nmt test subjects agreed aspects(of it) seemed extended 10-30mins from their usual subjective dmt time-windows.

i would not suggest, though, that there is any total rule for tryptamine duration, more a general yardstick.

chocobeastle writes:
Quote:
Try another floribunda tree from another location and you will likely not get this same alkaloid ever again, as I have found it very rare...
etc...

how wide was your survey range? (e.g. km radius) did you sample at different times of year?
as your results differ from some others, it would be good to increase our collective understanding...

[..Go yatiqiri !, by the way,...hope it's smooth sailin...]



The dmt i had was extracted from mimosa and it was the same extracted batch as dmt that had gave me 10 minute trips. Yes i was smoking cannabis also but i had been before too.

The longer experience came as a shock to me, it was like an hour long mushy trip and not bad in anyway.
 

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nen888
#22 Posted : 7/23/2011 7:50:10 AM
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DeMenTed you wrote:
Quote:
The dmt i had was extracted from mimosa and it was the same extracted batch as dmt that had gave me 10 minute trips.

..i think day to day differences can affect one's general metabolism, hence an alkaloid can have differing durations, but
it is my understanding that M. hostilis has other alkaloids in it (which could cause things to behave differently, especially if the crystalization was not
completely homogenous/uniform..)..there are other threads discussing what else is in mimosa...

ps Yatiqiri, a close up phyllode photo (as Hebrew wrote) would help..i'm starting to lean in favour of pycnantha...Smile
 
yatiqiri
#23 Posted : 7/23/2011 11:33:26 PM

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thanks everyone for helping. its really encouraging.

Im sorry I didnt bring close up phyllode photos with me yet. but it will be included in my next update.

The poor mans tek is a great tek. It works quite well and for me especially because occasionally Im a bit clumsy which would be dangerous with strong acids and bases.
Its incredible how pure the product comes out, even using phyllodes with no defatting .
I have very little experience extracting stuff using traditional solvents so I cant really judge to compare. but I have no complaints, except maybe oil getting in the final product

My recent work with phyllodes has led me to think that the alkaloid concentration is not as high as in the bark, but the alkaloid content is more refined, with alkaloids that are more potent. The crystals look more pure and the trip feels cleaner with really clear bright visuals. Immediate efects are felt but the real trip begins after 20-30 minutes and lasts about an hour. sleepy afterward, and very nice dreams all night.

these crystals look so pretty its like art, really trippy to look at and trippy to smoke. smells absolutely lovely as well, I wish I could make a perfume out of it.

yatiqiri attached the following image(s):
spiceart.JPG (141kb) downloaded 398 time(s).
 
nen888
#24 Posted : 7/30/2011 12:11:11 PM
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..amazing looking material yatiqiri!

(looks like a few things going on in there, i'd say, but i don't wanna spoil the art...)
 
komet
#25 Posted : 7/30/2011 6:43:59 PM

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nen888, yatiqiri

Possibly macradenia? I am not seeing the 'zig-zag' branching in the picture though...just a feeling I get from it plus what looks like a prominent midvein running through the phyllodes.

Edit: macradenia looks quite isolated to central qld, not sure of it's range...damn acacia id's always get under my skin. -"-
 
nen888
#26 Posted : 7/31/2011 10:00:49 AM
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hi komet, you wrote
Quote:
nen888, yatiqiri

Possibly macradenia? I am not seeing the 'zig-zag' branching in the picture though...just a feeling I get from it plus what looks like a prominent midvein running through the phyllodes.

Edit: macradenia looks quite isolated to central qld, not sure of it's range...damn acacia id's always get under my skin. -"-


..great to have you about for wattle ID..i'd assume A. macradenia too obscure to have been exported to Bolivia, was leaning towards A. pycnantha as it is very widely grown internationally..
it is in the acacia subsection Phyllodineae, a lot of which have similar flowers & a prominent central vein..this is why fruit is often required to really ID wattles (& then
it gets down to microscopic taxonony features)..
i figure the other most likely similar looking spp. to be found globaly would be A. obliquinervia , A. leiophylla, A. saligna , or maybe A. hakeoides...
 
nen888
#27 Posted : 7/31/2011 12:30:41 PM
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..i take that back komet! A. macradenia (Zig Zag Wattle) is sold by multiple international seed companies and could well be it (been off colour last few days..)
keep up the good eye-work!
 
komet
#28 Posted : 8/1/2011 2:20:09 AM

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Quote:
nen888
..i take that back komet! A. macradenia (Zig Zag Wattle) is sold by multiple international seed companies and could well be it (been off colour last few days..)
keep up the good eye-work!


Thanks. I guess there is still a lot it could be. I didn't realise the OP was not in Aus. The only reference I have see on macradenia is "tryptamines" but there are so many variables. A. pycnantha does look like a solid bet!
 
nen888
#29 Posted : 8/1/2011 3:02:05 AM
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..yatiqiri wrote:
Quote:
Immediate efects are felt but the real trip begins after 20-30 minutes and lasts about an hour. sleepy afterward, and very nice dreams all night.

..while we're taking bets, komet, i'll wager for: mainly NMT plus phenethylamine & some DMT..
(the only time i saw NMT crystalize it was kinda white & swirly, darkening with air exposure...)
 
nen888
#30 Posted : 8/1/2011 3:38:37 AM
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..the phenethylamine would be driving the overall duration and 'peak' of the experience, the NMT the entheogenic (though not always visual) effects,
and the DMT (in a smaller amount) would add some, well, 'spice'.

..that said, the crystal multi-patterning in the photo is quite extraordinary..

(hope someone has GCMS or HPLC in the correspondent's area...)


.
 
yatiqiri
#31 Posted : 8/1/2011 5:18:12 PM

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sorry for taking so long. here are two pictures of the leaf, both from the same tree.

the material extracted from the leaf is quite interesting. I had a trip last week that was the deepest Ive been with this acacia. It really feels like its own hallucinogen, and not dmt, but somewhat dmt like in its content, or at least resembling tryptamine effects like psilocybin or bufotenin. I will describe some of what happened

As usual the peak of the effects took about 20-30 minutes to begin. I wasnt checking the clock or anything, but enough time passes to get real comfortable in bed and even let my mind wander a bit. There are some effects during that time but nothing visionary.

then I can tell the acacia is getting stronger and it lets me know because I begin to see images of dragon heads in the dark. I would then hear the sounds of birds not trippy sounds that resembled birds, but actual bird sounds like parakeets and wild birds.

and then I get the first vision, I suddenly see or imagine in my head something like a group of human like cannibals sucking the juice from a rotting corpse, and I heard and saw the fluids being sucked, and then even more suddenly something like a gray rusty gate that had a form of a grim reaper like skeleton, with a skull in the middles that was alive was closing what I had just seen, like it was something really taboo of forbidden and I wasn't supposed to see that. It left me thinking about it for a while immediately after, thinking about what it could mean. a few minutes passing until the next big vision.

I saw something like a circus like theater full of strange creatures, somewhat insect and amphibian reptile like, the center stage had a performer that looked like and was doing something like the looney toons frog that sings and dances ''hello my baby hello my honey'' or at least that's what it reminded me of, and it was all very trippy, with web like forms all around me, and loud craziness.

later I began hearing a tool song in my head, lateralus, except at the same time I was also seeing the song in the form of a large somewhat bluish glowing sphere that hummed various tones layered over the music, loud, with energy that pulsated and vibrated through my head and arms. and at some point I remember something like the sphere popping and releasing floating bubbles everywhere that would gently descend over my body and feel like electric tingly vibrations when they touched my arms and body.


well those were the parts that I remember most.
Id also like to add that at no point even during peak effects do I notice any significant changes in heartbeat or blood pressure. Every moment is totally relaxed.

I thought about maybe taking a sample of my extract to a laboratory to be analyzed. Most things here can be done as long as one has the money to pay.
I really would like to know what exactly is in this.


yatiqiri attached the following image(s):
phyllode1.jpg (56kb) downloaded 312 time(s).
phyllode2.jpg (52kb) downloaded 310 time(s).
 
komet
#32 Posted : 8/1/2011 7:01:05 PM

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Sounds like an amazing experience, yatiqiri. Great work you are doing.

The phyllode picture isn't going to aid identification much though, nen888 has given some great examples - I was going to mention A.salinga also. One of the salinga varieties looks very similar to A. pycnantha and is also know as 'Golden Wattle'...if you weren't confused enough already. Very happy

Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of things once the fruit comes out.
 
nen888
#33 Posted : 8/2/2011 2:07:54 AM
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..wow, thanks for sharing experience yatiqiri, sounds great!
..i think you're right when you write
Quote:
It really feels like its own hallucinogen, and not dmt, but somewhat dmt like in its content, or at least resembling tryptamine effects like psilocybin or bufotenin.

..i was wagering for NMT and or phenethylamine (or synergy) to be playing the major role as these compounds are commonly found in acacias, but it very well could be a
different tryptamine (even one never described in acacias, let alone bio-assay, before)..
..when you say
Quote:
I thought about maybe taking a sample of my extract to a laboratory to be analyzed. Most things here can be done as long as one has the money to pay.
I really would like to know what exactly is in this.

..a GCMS (gas chromatograph mass spectrometry) test should not be a particularly expensive proceedure, so i heartily encourage you to do this..this really could be a major
entheogenic scientific discovery!

thanks once again for all the work...
 
hebrew
#34 Posted : 8/6/2011 3:45:20 AM
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hmm any further idea on ID with this plant, with those close up, it reminds me saligna. more than golden wattle

now is a good time to be out looking for wattles, floribunda's are jumping out at me, as is longifolia.

and this huge old saligna i found recently. good for pituri ash that one.
 
yatiqiri
#35 Posted : 8/10/2011 6:12:22 PM

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some updates:
I extract with the poor man's tek and that means using vegetable oil to extract the freebase alkaloids, and Im learning that it pulls things that are not soluble in napthta.


Washing 1g of phyllode spice multiple times in warm naptha reduced its weight to .8g, and the naphta evaporated left a small amount of white flaky material.

I experimented with each portion on different night this week, discovered each to be active, with similar qualities to previous experiences with the whole spice, but each also with its differences.

the first, the naptha soluble portion, smelled like spice, was a bit oily in texture, and vaporized easily. The effects were quick, peaking in under 30 minutes. Not very deep, but a generous amount of visual activity, and some light dreaminess like the feeling of letting yourself go to sleep, which I did eventually.

The naphtha non soluble portion did not smell like much, was completely dry in texture like sand. It did not vaporize very easily. The effect were slower, begining to peak after at least 30 minutes. It would peak at moments and then sort of go away, and then come back even stronger. Very trance inducing, like my entire being would get sucked into a spiral. It was a bit difficult to relax compared to other experiences. Also I did not fall asleep . At least an hour and a half had passed since I smoked when the effects went down, which is where I usually fall asleep, instead I got up and then later read for a bit.


For me the 2nd portion, the not soluble in naptha and majority of the whole spice, contains the more entheogenic visionary alkaloids. They are slow, a bit tense, irregular and long lasting effects but quite potent. The visuals were like dark tunnels.
the naptha soluble portion was not very potent, however much smoother and quicker, and felt no tension, and had more light.

The whole spice vaporized, seems to provide the most balanced experience.
I also experiment the oral route with the whole spice,without maois, and found it to be active, but had a lot of lethargic effects.
yatiqiri attached the following image(s):
acspod.jpg (326kb) downloaded 262 time(s).
acse.jpg (313kb) downloaded 260 time(s).
 
hebrew
#36 Posted : 8/10/2011 9:58:57 PM
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hmm i was hoping it would be golden wattle, but from the pics i am stumped, golden wattles that i know tend to have a deeper green phyllode and have a curve to them, i will take a photo of one today and put it here to see if it is similar, and if i can i will look for the saligna, i know, or maybe i mixing that one up with a pendula, anyway, this one isnt saligna as well to my understanding as saligna has red seeds, pleas correct me if wrong

man this plant sound like the bees knees, i would really like to know its identity

EDIT: to say, collect those seeds and get this plant out and about, plant it all over so you got plenty of material in yeaars to come, this sounds like a good one you have come across
 
wira
#37 Posted : 8/21/2011 3:19:02 PM

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Hi,
my best guess would be saligna. I haven't seen in any of my Acacia books that saligna has red arils. Will have to look into that. Can you tell us about the gland on the top of each phyllode, near the stem? How far is it on average from the end of the pulvinus (the little 'leaf-stem' segment joinging the stem and the phyllode (the 'leaf'Pleased? Descriptions I've read say it should be 0-3mm for saligna.
With the broader phyllodes you pictured, I have seen pycnantha specimens that look like that, although that's generally not bluish and glaucous like the ones in your pics (unless that colour and waxy 'haziness' are from sun glare, and the phyllodes aren't actually like that?). However, the narrow phyllodes - am not aware of pycnantha ever looking like that!
Can I confirm, this is growing in Bolivia, right?
 
komet
#38 Posted : 8/21/2011 11:08:01 PM

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wira wrote:
Hi,
my best guess would be saligna. I haven't seen in any of my Acacia books that saligna has red arils. Will have to look into that. Can you tell us about the gland on the top of each phyllode, near the stem? How far is it on average from the end of the pulvinus (the little 'leaf-stem' segment joinging the stem and the phyllode (the 'leaf'Pleased? Descriptions I've read say it should be 0-3mm for saligna.


yatiqiri, wira makes a good point about the position of the gland. I have circled one of your phyllode pictures just in case you are not familiar with gland location. Also note the maximum and minimum distance.
komet attached the following image(s):
phyllode1.jpg (9kb) downloaded 230 time(s).
 
nen888
#39 Posted : 8/22/2011 1:58:18 AM
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..welcome wira, yeah good point as komet says about the gland..the gland on Acacia obliquinervia is gland 0–12 mm above the pulvinus and the pod (in the photos) is closer to this species than saligna, although i think saligna is more likely to have been exported to Bolivia..of course there's natural hybrids too..the plant is either saligna or obliquinervia i reckon..these two, & pycnantha should be investigated more...
 
wira
#40 Posted : 8/29/2011 4:11:07 PM

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By the way, for those unfamiliar with the plant terminology, the aril on wattle seeds is the fleshy bit attached to the seed. Think of mace, which is the aril of the nutmeg seed. Arils on wattle seeds may vary in colour, and in some species are red, sometimes orange, sometimes pale. Acacia seeds themselves are never red as far as I'm aware - they're generally black, dark brown or somewhere in between.
 
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