You guys really just seriously derailed this guys post.

Let the kid be a shaman for gods sake and start another thread for debate. he doesn't have to justify his beliefs to any one on the nexus btw... None of us do.

Tobecomeone00 entropymancer had a good point. The process of learning protection and defense spiritually is a really important growth process. If done from the point of view of nondual oneness it really helps us grow in some amazing ways. One of my favorite defenses is just being one... They attack only themselves when you are one. When you are one with all that is they can't even find a you to attack ; )

well, if you want to get technical about it..noone here or elsewhere is a shaman unless they come from a background or lineage in the siberian practice of "shamanism".

People like to mix these terms up and lump them all into the category of "shamanism", thanks to michael harner and his "core shamanism"..Thats what this all stems from...the whole core shamanism thing for me is a bit dumbed down IMO but it did introduce alot of mainstream people I think to non-drug altered states and dreamwork etc..are these people really shamans though? I cant really say, it depends on how you choose to define the term.

People tend to lump european practices like "witchcraft" into that same category. I dont know how useful these generalizations are in the long run though, and I tend to think about it as "bad" anthropology. The same thing has now happened with "wicca"..people tend to assume wicca is just a branch of traditional witchcraft, which it clearly is not. Wiccs seems to be a syncretic tradition that is a quite recent blend of eqyptian, pagan, hindu and other traditions. The wiccan reid for instance is found nowhere in traditional witchcraft, which has it's roots in the very different practice of seid magic. I wrote an essay about this a few years ago for one of my classes on "religion, magic and witchcraft". I just dont think it serves any real academic purpose to lump everything together like that, other than to start some new age workshop you can charge money for, like Harner did. So much content is lost when you generalize that way..weather or not that content is relevant to us is not the important part, what is important is that it definatily is relevant to understanding the origional practice itself and what it represents to it's indigenous practicioners. If you loose that aspect of it, than it just is not the same thing IMO.

Not that I think that us in the west need to follow taboos that arise within other cultures..I dont think we should do that. My point here is that to understand something like "shamanism" for example, if you do not understand the cultural context and taboos surrounding siberian culture, I dont think you can really ever even know what shamanism really is. You might be practicing a valid form of spirituality that parallels some more general aspects of siberian shamanism..but are you REALLY a shaman then?..

..this is where using a term like shaman as it is often used in the west starts to loose any relevance imo becasue it used in such a shallow, and loose way..not that I would ever call those who use it loose or shallow..just I think any term they choose to use would be just as appropraite as "shaman". I know for me personally I know a hell of a lot more about seid magic and traditional witchcraft and alchemy than I do about true siberian shamanism..I never studied siberian shamanism in depth in college, but I did study vodou and the practices of certain west coast native tribes, as well as very in depth research at one point into traditions of norse magic, or seid. That is a large part of my genetic lineage and I learned as much as I could about it, and still I dont know as much as I could and so I still dont even have enough of a complete contextual understanding of it to use those terms with 100% accuracy in relation to how they came to be.

When you generalize too much, you start to loose the cultural contexts within which these things arise, and in turn when you loose that you also loose alot of the practical relevance as it pertains to certain practices..so when you take these things out of the indigenous contexts from which they arise, can you really call them the same thing?..or are new terms appropriate?

You would not call the german language english would you? or call english norweigan?..yet they are all germanic languages..essentailly syncretic offshoots of germanic language(s) from way back..to generalise them and call them all by one name though makes no practical sense..YET they are all language, and more generally, all germanic..so there is some parallel there..and this is the point when it comes to these practices of "shamanism", "witchcraft", "vodou" etc..they are not all exactly the same..yet they do seem to parallel each other in many areas, and all may in fact have roots extending from a more general primordial practice.

Seriously guys... Why don't you start a new thread it's rather rude.



The etymology of shaman means to know.


Everyone has the ability to know.
And knowing doesn't belong to one culture or people or tradition.
You don't need a rite of passage to know, and you don't need the approval of others to know.
You don't need a drum to know, you don't need a teacher to know as some people are born knowing.
You don't need to die and be reborn to know, though some say it helps...
you dont need to be born a boy to know or a girl to know or both or neither genders to know.
You don't need to belong to a certain tribe to know.
You dont have to live rural to know, though you might because you know better....
You don't need a certain skin color or to speak in a certain language to know...
you don't need to be dirty poor or wealthy to know.
You don't need to read a book to know, though some do, and can talk in magical circles... But you dont need to walk and talk in magical circles to know either.
You don't need to know it another way then how you know it.
The way you know and what you know is unique and rare and has never existed and will never exist again in the history of this universe, revel in that... If you know how to revel.

I agree. It's an interesting topic, but this really isn't the thread for it.

Other spiritual protection techniques include summoning protective spirits, imbuing objects that are significant to you with protective power, and cultivating a spirit-substance of power within yourself both to focus your own energy in your work and to provide immunity or protection from attacks (ayahuasqueros typically conceive of this as a sort of magical rarified phlegm).

Self-examination is also a powerful tool in many different contexts.

I am a PRACTICING shaman...The title means nothing, the actions mean everything....I work with plants in a spiritual manner, actually being friends with all my guides as well...I never asked for your guys' opinions on who or what I am or do, tho it is welcome nonetheless, I am quite comfortable with myself and my "practicing" shamanism...it's something I'm into, oh well......As I'm beginning to see, it is worthless to post anything here for help....95% of you are just looking for a means to show off your pseudo-knowledge...I think some of you are so used to doing that in every other post, it just happens naturally, and that's okay...but wtf? You guys have all done DMT....how can there be doubt regarding these things? I mean, REALLY?

Fractal, I really value most of your posts, but regardless how "technical" one wants to get with it, your first sentence of that last post is exactly what I'm talking about...the human mind being so fraught with rationalism, technicality and fact...I don't live in that world...I live in one of possibility, one of opportunity, one of Destiny...I really do prefer to look at the world in symbols, insetad of trying to deduct it down to its last atom, because once you've done that, you have taken the beauty out of it...so not to be blunt, but yes, in "technical" terms that may be right, but in "general" terms, that first sentence was complete BS...sorry, but its how I feel...

Swims entered into many "conflicts" and dramas in the spiritual world. Swim was Freinds with an aboriginal law man down in Oz the "shaman" of his tribe got really jealous of him and his friends and killed him and his cousin then went after the rest of us... It was tricky and dangerous and real.
A lot of conflicts are just spiritual drama and it's there to liberate you, to create insight in my experience. As soon as the insight is reached the entire inner drama of spiritual conflict dissipates to a white screen for swim and is left feeling intense feelings of wholeness.
Swim has talked with world class martial artists as well who have described moments in the ring where the person they where fighting and they realized they had known and fought each other before and that they knew they were one and became liberated trough the conflict. There are many stories of warriors reaching enlightenment in this way.
This is what entheogens have taught me about spiritual attacks and conflicts.

I think a fact of the world has passed you by: not everyone thinks the same as you do, or interprets their experiences the same way that you have. A corollary of that might be that things you think are "real" are only "real" for you--and may not be objectively real (i.e., real for everyone), and may not be real even for the person or realities that you believe are "attacking" you.

Entro, Dorge...Thank you, I am researching a lot of what you have posted...dorge that sounds nuts....can youexplain what happened exactly? what tricks do they use?...I mean, something weird had happened that I forgot to mention..I had the strange thought to deviate from my usual plant allies, and try some new ones I had bought the day before...big mistake, somehow, this other shaman, my other side, whatever, convinced me to buy the EXACT things needed for his sorcery to work...I placed them on some hot coals next to my hut, and all of a sudden black smoke began spewing from the coals...this WAS NOT NATURAL INCENSE like it was advertised...I felt, by power of suggestion, I was tricked by this other shaman to aquire and use the precise plant mixtures needed to pruduce his powers...Upon realizing this, I took the new stuff, the coals, even the metal coal container, and threw it away in a garbage can full of rotten crab legs (how appropriate)...Tell me Dorge, will dark shamans do things like this? Tricks?

tobecomeone00, I hope my post did not offend you...I was and am interested in what sort of shamanism you practice and was not lumping you with the "westerners" presented in my first post. How could I? I don't know you. I felt Entro made a good point and whether you learn from the plants or from a manifested tradition (the teachers I referenced), was curious as to what you practice. I meant no offense; I was just curious.

its okay..I expect people to feel that way about it, and I would rather them feel that way to be honest becasue I basically feel the same way as dorge as he has pointed out numerous times in may threads. We dont need to be part of any lineage at all to do this work. I was referring to more the academic side of things, and not in the way it translates to people actaully practicing these things. Wording it is sort of hard but I think my point was meant as the opposite of what you thought I meant..my point was that at the end of the day, I feel like language itself is failing us in a way.

Do you activly work with nature? Do you have power places of your own? I do and it is definatily a part of my life. I couldnt do what I do without that connection. Certain natural springs, waterfalls, mountains, trees and beaches are sacred beings in my world that I make regular pilgrimages to. They help me center myself and find power in a way. These things probabily wouldnt mean a damn thing to anyone else though because they are personal. Whether or not these things only have power in a psychological sense for me is beside the point..they work and speak to me personally so that is what is important. I chose years ago to live in my world and be whatever I choose to be and this is just the way things work in my world. Being one, flowing with an ocean wave brings me more peace of mind than anything else, and it is usually in the wake of those meditations that I feel the most clear and powerful. I feel like nothing can touch me when I am on that level.

Find whatever it is that connects you, speaks to who you are or helps you find your own center..I believe that from that point we are all stronger. This is the only form of protection I know of. I am not concerned with actaul shamanic sort of battles or retaliation etc..I understand and acknowledge that side of nature, where everything feeds off of everything else..but in the sense we are talking about I would like to think I can instead find my own little pocket of energy and direct my efforts inward and raise my vibration to a level where those with lesser intentions cant really get in my way anymore.

I think he realized that people here can be rather intolerant of other peoples ideas sometimes and that If he posts somthing he believes in he might not be shown proper respect as a human being... That's what I think he discovered. That people here believe differently then he was probably just a side effect lol... Jesus...



Tobecomeone00 I dont wish to get into more details about my friends who died, because it's fairly personal and sad.
But yes spirit can move like that, people can guide and manipulate things to their advantage. I had a ayahuascero put a hook, like and virote (dart) in me to keep me working with him. It impacted vents and choices I made and was very disempowering. I had it removed and identified by another ayahuascero a few years later.
In my experience it's important to treat all of these things as karmic lessons that can help you towards liberation. If you do your not a victim to any of it, and it always ultimately benefits you and others. Once you go through that karmic cycle and are liberated from it you don need to go through it again.

Perhaps this guy in this other band or this black sorccerer is really just a part of that larger self that you are attempting to teach and assist you in being liberated from cycles of envy and fear and to help you to see somthing about the world, yourself and others you do not currently see or know?

As far as tips and tricks and techniques are concerned for dealing with these sorts of things, as for the highest guide you have available to you, a tutelary spirit that can help teach you what you need to do, then just be open and allow that magic to happen right?! Every lesson and adversity one comes too is going to be different. You can send love and white light from your heart to one being and that will do... But maybe the lesson you need to learn is wrathful compassion maybe it's different.

Dorge, that is what I needed to hear...are there any resources you know of that could help me out? Books? And Fractal, I'm sorry for being snappy, your posts are always kept close to my heart...Its just that this was a very scary and real experience, and for people to start discussing whether or not I'm an actual shaman after I related my experience takes the validity out of everything I posted, which is insulting in its own right....and House, your ailments have given you a side of bitterness that completely off-sets your impressive intelligence...if you mix those smarts with some good feelings, nothing will be able to stop you...I really love all you guys/girls...We have to stick together, even if stuff sounds TOO weird, we have to trust one another! I have honestly learned from everyone who has posted thusfar, and that is beautiful in its own right...Thank you, everyone

Dorge, that is what I needed to hear...are there any resources you know of that could help me out? Books? And Fractal, I'm sorry for being snappy, your posts are always kept close to my heart...Its just that this was a very scary and real experience, and for people to start discussing whether or not I'm an actual shaman after I related my experience takes the validity out of everything I posted, which is insulting in its own right....and House, your ailments have given you a side of bitterness that completely off-sets your impressive intelligence...if you mix those smarts with some good feelings, nothing will be able to stop you...I really love all you guys/girls...We have to stick together, even if stuff sounds TOO weird, we have to trust one another! I have honestly learned from everyone who has posted thusfar, and that is beautiful in its own right...Thank you, everyone

What does it mean to show someone "proper respect as a human being?" If I tell someone the truth as I've discovered and used it have I disrespected them as a human being?

Is tolerance and respect exemplified when telling others their knowledge is "pseudo-knowledge" when they're committing the sin of discussing something not of interest to the poster?....or...wait: might it be that some posters are so drowned in their own solipsism that they believe respect is something that flows in (CAN ONLY flow in) one direction?

I wonder, do you have a clear understanding of the differences between intolerance and disagreement? One who doesn't mostly believes that anyone who disagrees with or challenges him is a pig (i.e., disrespectful and intolerant)...

tobecomeone00, I worry these people are just enabling you further into psychosis.

Be well.

Tobecomeone00, you might find some benefit to the chapter on "Conflict and Exorcism" in this.

House, your reply was more than mature. This is the first time I have ever followed my delusions, and I will not lie, there IS a voice in my head saying that these are delusions...that I won't make it into the band, that I'm destined to sit in this garage that I live in for the rest of my life...I choose to ignore that voice, that was the voice that always told me to shoot up one more time, to steal my mom's last $100 bucks to get high with, etc....I am following the delusion with the very real expectation of succeeding, and I know if it does not succeed, my faith in such delsuions will be crippled for life...The things DMT shows me, SHOWS US, are beyong comprehension, but I do believe the symbolism in such experiences cast a shadow on the physical world we live in, illumiating possiblities and very possibly, cosmic destiny. I may be wrong, but it's how I've been able to digest the information that has been flung into me...So if this works out, great, if not, that's okay too...I appreciate your comments, House, and encourage you to speak up any time you feel necessary!

Ragabr, thank you very much! I will look it up right now!

man
define your options and go for it.

Ideas about the future aren't fairly referred to as "delusions."

Why not seek the positive, LOVE your music and its expression, and thereby enhance any connection you make with others who have the same musical feelings? Doing that will best help you move forward into those things, if that's what you really want--even if you don't make it this time.

No voices "need" to be listened to--neither the "realistic" ones or the "deluded" ones.