hi guys
my friend has a few elfspice trip under his belt with different doses and every time he exhales the first seconds, or say minute afterwards the numbing of his body makes him feel like his lungs might stop working and he might stop breathing.

this is extremely scary since all the sense are overwhelmed and the brain loses control and it usually grab the attention away from the experience as he focuses on taking deep sudden breaths and coffing up instead of exploring the trip.

Im wondering if someone had similar experiences and have any advices for my friend because he's saddened to fear he might die of asphyxiation every time he attempts exploring the hyperspace

cheers

You just have to remember that you aren't going to die.

After my first inhale, my focus usually goes to my heart, which seems like it is about to beat out of my chest. I just blame it on my overwhelmed senses and move on. You just have to remember that you body is functioning and is going to continue to function normally.

If you can't make yourself believe you are going to be okay, get a sitter, take a small dose, and ask them to make sure you breathe okay. That might could bring you the peace of mind you are looking for.

Or you could look at all the data provided by the Strassman experiments. or by all the reports here on the Nexus. No-one has ever died, no matter how much they smoked.

Good luck on your next voyage!

I know all about this and am fascinated by it. Speaking only for myself, here is what I have learned:

1.) My convincing sensation that my breathing and/or heartbeat have ceased after hitting spice is pure hallucination. I proved this by using a sober sitter. We compared notes. I said, "It was rough. I felt like I couldn't breath, then I was fighting and GASPING for breath for minutes!" He looked astonished, "Wow! You're kidding, right? Jeez, it's amazing how tenuous the connection is between the mind and body - you looked like you were asleep, breathing easily, regularly and deeply to me!"

That blew my mind. It wasn't the drug. It was me. My hallucination. My ego trying to hold on to that last shred of itself - the one that intimately identifies with the body.

2.) Trust the DMT. It is a safe molecule. It is an endogenous neurotransmitter. Your body and mind KNOW what to do with it - that's why it's over/metabolized so quickly (on the consensual reality clock)

3.) Trust your body. Your body has a number of priorities. Things like getting high, getting laid, shelter, eating, drinking, maintaining steady heartbeat and breathing. That is a short list that I put in REVERSE order. The last items are the absolute MOST important to your body. TRUST YOUR BODY - it will breathe and keep your heart in a life rhythym up until its' very last moment ability to do so. It will do these things WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE IN IT AT THE TIME. Trust your body to breathe.


This is about learning to let go. Let it ALL go like never before. Surrender in a way you have never surrendered before. To me, I have to let my love of life and phsyicality go and surrender to (ego) death. When this happens there is no fear of lack of breath. That no longer matters. I understand that I am in a higher (hyperspace) realm and breathing/heartbeat are not necessary for comfortable functioning of consciousness there. If I remember my body, I will "trust my wetware," know that it is functioning fine without me and that I will return to it when the time is right.

Trust and surrender. So easy to write, so hard to do.

DMT drills to the core of "I" and "Me-ness" and peels back all the layers to reveal everything, the fears, the delights, the dependencies, the loves, the ecstacies, the entanglements. It really is All-One.

Peace & Love

You must just learn to let go, Let go of everything and try not to fight it. Just Hit it,lean back, and dont fight it.
Let it take you to where it takes you.
I myself went through the same thing my first couple of times, I tried to fight it and take control but it was no use and that was the scariest thing for me to over come but with in time you get used to it. Happy trails and remember the journey is the reward

If I am working hard on a big dose my body can forget to breath sometimes, until my lungs start getting that anxious feeling. Kind of an "Oh yeah, breathing is good!" moment. Usually only happens a few times and by then I am backing out of hyperspace. Nothing too scary really.

Also occurs when vaping a big hit and holding it as long as possible; when the fractalization is beginning, I have to remind myself to exhale since I can't feel the air pressure in my lungs anymore, just a general idea that I should continue the breathing process as a matter of principal.

I take it as a sign that my mind is leaving my body, and my body is a fucking idiot that needs a few last executive commands before departure.

One more thing that for me has really worked:

It does not make any sense to launch when my physical body is hypoxic.

Therefore, I have begun a program of conscious hyperventilation for a good 6-10 quick/deep breaths before I take that first hit. If at all possible, I try to take a last deep breath as I set the pipe down, right before I launch.

Launching fully oxygenated or at least non-hypoxic along with working on my trust and surrender issues have helped tremendously.

Off topic, but just curious... Is your handle a reference to the Orson Scott Card series?

I loves me some Ender <3

Trust the ability of your brainstem to maintain respiratory activity-even if you tried to stop breathing for good, you would be unable to do so.IME, those familiar with strong opiate use are troubled by this fear alot less, as they would have experienced proper respiratory depressant effects, which can be subtle but real and give the brainstem a challenge.

I'm really touched by the quality and warmth of the replies you've provided me with.
Thank you so much... every single one of you.

My friend will keep trying to let go and trust the process, perhaps his brain will eventually accept this initial feeling of collapsing lung and won't associate "self-preservation" distress signals to it.

ps : @Melodic Catastrophe : yes the nickname comes from Orson Scott Cards serie. The first book completely blew my mind but I still can't get through the second one... the writing style and story line is so different that it's almost like reading an unrelated book from another author. if you've read the all serie let me know if it's worth passing that second book plateau



You are an amazing community

I'm trying to come to terms with the same thing. I manage to launch. I get there, and then I realise I'm actualy breathing in globs of plsama/energy and it scares me. I have freaked out entities and caused quite stir before. I am not going to try breakthrough for a bit until I figure out how to stop panicking.

interesting stuff can you actually see the energy or feel something is wrong about it?
for me every time right after exhaling the toke my tongue gets numb and twists in a bizarre way, I can't notice myself breathing anymore and it feels like my chest is not moving at all, leading me to the conclusion that i stopped breathing and have no control over it. as if my body was anesthetized to the point of not catering to its basic functions as my minds starts spinning inside the trip.

the first time it happened I saw the energy globs they were like bubblegum. I would breathe out and it would blow up and then I'd suck it back in. I was freaking out coz it felt like I was not getting oxygen. The next few times I could just feel it doing the same thing. I really worry that I am not actually breathing. but I'm sure its just the DMT making me think that. I'm enjoying low dose trips while I figure it all out.

But actually, paradoxically, you are DECREASING the quantity of oxygen in your tissues when you do that procedure. Doing it actually only decreases the amount of CO2 in your lungs and tissues. And what that does is give you the FEELING that you have more oxygen, because you have less of an urge to breathe, because the urge to breathe is a function of the amount of CO2 in your lungs (and not oxygen).

But with less CO2 in your lungs and body, there is LESS exchange of O2 for CO2 in your body, and your arteries actually constrict (because CO2 is THE major natural dialator of blood vessels). If you were to continue to hyperventilate like that you would actually PASS OUT--because your arteries would constrict so much (and O2 transport would decrease so much) that your brain would become LOW on oxygen.

And in fact that's what makes people faint from anxiety and hyperventilation. Doing that type of breathing could very well lead to an anxious experience with DMT.

Instead, O2 levels would be increased, arteries relaxed, and breathing would achieve its most efficient state by doing some standard "pranayama" exercises that include breath holds and slowed breathing. Many stage actors actually breathe into a paper bag before going onstage, because it relaxes, reduces anxiety, and also happens to slightly deepen the voice.


And just to finish the topic, we hyperventilate when stressed because our body is anticipating STRENUOUS PHYSICAL EXERTION (by either fighting or fleeing), and in that case we would NOT blow off too much CO2, because we would be PRODUCING prodigious quantities of CO2 by cellular respiration. It's only when we breathe like that BUT DON'T DO ANYTHING that the "method" of hyperventilation works AGAINST the process of supplying O2 to tissues rather than FOR it.

SWIMfriend makes some pertinent observations in his post; we need to be clear about the different effects of rapid hyperventilation and slower deeper breathing which have different short and medium-term effects.CO2 is the main driver of respiration in healthy individuals without lung problems through a variety of mechanisms but one of the main ones is on brainstem chemoreceptors.CO2 in the blood dissociates to H+ and HCO3- ions with the former lowering the pH in the blood and cerebrospinal fluid which stimulates the central 'drive' to inspire/expire.Low O2 levels in the blood have some effect on this area of the brainstem but have a greater effect on a structure known as the carotid body which is located close to where the carotid arteries divide in the neck.People who are chronically hypoxic (low O2 in the blood) for example those living at a high altitude often have a bigger carotid body as a consequence of this hypoxia.CO2 has some effect here but less than O2 levels.

Rapid hyperventilation drops the partial pressure of CO2 in the blood and this causes cerebral vessels to constrict thus reducing arterial blood flow to the brain and hence the amount of O2 getting there.Hyperventilation is used therapeutically after traumatic brain injuries in order to reduce the intra-cerebral bloodflow and has been shown in many studies to reduce the amount of damage as a result.

Hyperventilation also affects the amount of ionised calcium in the blood which can actually provoke anxiety and if one hyperventilates enough, a grand-mal siezure can result as a consequence of this effect on calcium.

The physiology of respiration is a fascinating topic and involves beautiful harmony between the lungs, the brain, the heart, the kidneys and adrenal glands all coordinated by the autonomic nervous system.It really is a wonder to contemplate how it all works in synch.

Yeah, the writing style is quite a bit different than the first book but it is totally worth it. I had to read it a couple of times before I actually absorbed the writing style. I think that if you know Portuguese it would help a lot.

But yeah, the book is definitely worth getting through. The way the story evolves is incredible. It's truly an inspiring series.

these are some great insights. I used to completely empty my lungs to take the first toke maybe that's why i got this issue. i'll try to slow down my breathing and go through it in several tokes next time see how that goes. very interesting points thanks guys