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question about my acacia spice Options
 
yatiqiri
#1 Posted : 6/30/2011 5:19:34 PM

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hello, last week I extracted some spice from acacia floribunda phyllodes, and I had a question regarding the nature of my experience.

I am not sure what this spice contains. I smoked it for the third time last night, this time with a friend. The effects were not immediate and they came up quite slowly, over about half an hour, mostly a head trip and not many visuals at first. During the peak however visuals were stronger, rapid and flashy. The entire trip lasted about almost an hour, and was quite enjoyable.

Now Im thinking my extract spice does not contain DMT, but other psychedelic tryptamines, or something else? because DMT would only last 5-15 minutes which is not what I felt or my friend. I also considered maybe it does contain DMT but my smoking method degraded it since I wasnt too careful to vaporize and not burn.

Either way as it is, acacia floribunda phyllode spice is still a good and potent entheogen. It was a bit similar to bufotenin but a very distinct space as well. I am thinking about mixing them

This tree grows everywhere for me and there is always piles of branches from recently trimmed trees. I am still interested in finding a pure DMT spice.
Im thinking maybe bark? root bark? should I also test flowers?

thanks everyone
 

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DoingKermit
#2 Posted : 6/30/2011 8:52:12 PM

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Hmmm. Interesting. I doubt it is because of your smoking technique. If you vape it correctly, it won't make the experience slow down. Actually, it will make the experience more intense because you get more out of the product.

Definitely try using root bark and stem bark in your extractions to compare results.

Do you know if this type of Acacia even contains DMT? Could it have been placebo?

Edit: The Wiki says this about Acacia Floribunda: Tryptamine, phenethylamine,[33] in flowers[15] other tryptamines,[34] phenethylamines... doesn't say specifically that it contains DMT and might explain why your extracted material wasn't DMT-like in effects.
 
yatiqiri
#3 Posted : 6/30/2011 10:38:53 PM

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no impossible that it was a placebo, Ive smoked it three times, and third time with a friend and we both tripped, not light but moderately strong. no negative effects.

nen888 comments in his post dimethyltryptamine poly morphism
''with NMT freebase showed roughly 1/3 potency of DMT with slightly different but noticeable effects which took around 3-5 minutes to appear with a 45-70 minute duration ''
so I thinmaybe thats whats in the leaves. thanks nen888

Good news is today on the bus as i was looking at the trees I realized that a lot of them have dead sections. So walking around a neighborhood where many floribundas grow, like at least 3-5 trees every block. I eventually find a tree that was completely dead. so I took that oportunity to strip pieces of bark to take home with me.

I'll post again when I complete an extraction of the bark. its trunk bark, on fresh trees the inside is red, on the dead tree its a light tint of red, but it probably convenient for me to use since its already dry. plus its areadly dead so Im not killing anything
 
yatiqiri
#4 Posted : 7/2/2011 6:16:43 PM

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The bark is much more potent!! from a smaller quantity of powdered bark, I had a much higher yield and the tryptamine effects were more complete and came up more forcefully.

I stil have to refine my extract procedure, I get a mix of crystals and yellow orange goo.

the bark is surprisingly strong.
I am wondering about ayahuasca analogues with this acacia bark.
smoking the extract I had no negative effects.
Is there any known issues with drinking acacia bark tea?
 
chocobeastie
#5 Posted : 7/3/2011 6:03:49 AM

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What is happening here is that in the Acacias there often strange alkaloids depending on the location of the tree, the strain, the species, the time of day, the soil type, time of year etc. In this case, I am familar with the alkaloid which causes an experience of such long duration as I have found it in Obtusifolia. Try another floribunda tree from another location and you will likely not get this same alkaloid ever again, as I have found it very rare in Obtusifolias!

Use the phyllodes in brews. It works well.

What kind of yields are you getting from the bark?

Quote:

I stil have to refine my extract procedure, I get a mix of crystals and yellow orange goo.


That is just what is coming out and you should be happy with that! You would have to recrystallise to get more "pure white stuff", but that would mostly be for aesthetic effect, rather than a real qualitive change in what you actually experience when you smoke this.

 
nen888
#6 Posted : 7/3/2011 11:38:30 AM
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..the plants are revealing themselves, quickening the flow of information..

the next stage of NMT research (i describe elsewhere) did involve MAOI analogue testing. i really just need more time to write some of this up, plus if it's not 'published' a lot of 'experts' do not accept it.

..for now i can say that NMT appears as 'safe' as DMT in conjunction with MAOIs, the duration of the effects being increased to 4-7hrs. Somatic and (not unpleasant) tremoring effects may occur. 2 test subjects reported a slight 'overstimulation' but without visuals which they found hard to describe. another subject found it to be highly 'meditational' and slightly sedative, instead. more controls are needed to account for these discrepencies...

work done with your tree Yatiqiri may well contribute to our currently limited understanding of NMT. collect seed if possible (for the genepool).

there is also a high possibility that it contains additional alkaloids which may contribute to it's effect.

i urge all possible precautions in health & safety issues (particularly when MAOIs are involved) when conducting research into the unknown.

spirit guide you, nen...
 
yatiqiri
#7 Posted : 7/3/2011 10:52:53 PM

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chocobeastie wrote:
What is happening here is that in the Acacias there often strange alkaloids depending on the location of the tree, the strain, the species, the time of day, the soil type, time of year etc. In this case, I am familar with the alkaloid which causes an experience of such long duration as I have found it in Obtusifolia. Try another floribunda tree from another location and you will likely not get this same alkaloid ever again, as I have found it very rare in Obtusifolias!


Wow, that it is very interesting.

I got the bark from a dead tree in a different neighborhood and the duration was not quite so long, only slightly (15-30 min),

I had been thinking it was the difference in phyllode vs bark but perhaps this tree had less of those long duration alkaloids.


Quote:

Use the phyllodes in brews. It works well.


thanks, its good to know of other peoples success

because of potency, I was more inclined to test bark in a brew.

I made a small brew of acacia bark, not too concentrated, it turned a deep red and had an appearence of containing lots of tannins. like heavy tea, it reminded me of mimosa.

then last night I slowly alternated every few minutes between sipping a caapi brew, and this acacia brew. the acacia brew hardly tasted like much besides the tannins. Since it was the first time I stopped after I thought I could feel the acacia which was after about 15 minute

I had some nousea, nothing heavy or out of the ordinary for the dose, very much like mimosa brews. I peaked for some 20 minutes after about an hour and overall it worked very well, a light-medium trip.

Quote:

What kind of yields are you getting from the bark?


Im sorry I dont have a scale and did not weigh anything. These initial extractions were more a test anyway to see which part would be worth my time to do more serious extractions with more material. I will buy a scale by then.


Quote:

You would have to recrystallise to get more "pure white stuff", but that would mostly be for aesthetic effect, rather than a real qualitive change in what you actually experience when you smoke this.


would it make it easier or more efficient to vaporize?


Quote:
..the plants are revealing themselves, quickening the flow of information..

no longer dying never imparting their knowledge
 
DeMenTed
#8 Posted : 7/3/2011 10:56:03 PM

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"DMT would only last 5-15 minutes which is not what I felt or my friend"

This isn't necessarily true. Ive had dmt trips with no maoi that lasted an hour. Dmt isn't always the same but yeah sure there is obviously other alkaloids in there.

What colour was your spice?
 
nen888
#9 Posted : 7/5/2011 2:06:02 PM
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Quote:
Ive had dmt trips with no MAOI that lasted an hour.

..was this with plant extract? was it tested pure in some way?
were any other(even mild) psychoactive substances(e.g cannibis,blue lotus etc.), herbs etc taken prior to the trip?
(substances other than MAOIs can lengthen a dmt experience.)

i agree that even with pure n,n dmt the effect could be said to last for an hr., the usual
"peak" window is about 10-20mins, the overall strong effect over within an hour.(on average)

nmt test subjects agreed aspects(of it) seemed extended 10-30mins from their usual subjective dmt time-windows.

i would not suggest, though, that there is any total rule for tryptamine duration, more a general yardstick.

chocobeastle writes:
Quote:
Try another floribunda tree from another location and you will likely not get this same alkaloid ever again, as I have found it very rare...
etc...

how wide was your survey range? (e.g. km radius) did you sample at different times of year?
as your results differ from some others, it would be good to increase our collective understanding...

[..Go yatiqiri !, by the way,...hope it's smooth sailin...]
 
yatiqiri
#10 Posted : 7/5/2011 10:49:23 PM

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DeMenTed wrote:

What colour was your spice?


yatiqiri attached the following image(s):
acaciaspice.jpg (147kb) downloaded 605 time(s).
 
nen888
#11 Posted : 7/6/2011 12:35:28 AM
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...uneven colour/texture could indicate mixture of alkaloids, have seen dmt/nmt combinations which look similar (varying colours)...
on the other hand, crude crystalized nmt with air exposure could look similar (but crystalization of pure nmt is usually very difficult in exp. & should be uniform).
(for more on nmt go here: entheogenic effects of NMT...)
looks like various 'impurites'(other& non alkaloids) present...

also, phenethylamines (which could display activity at lower levels) in acacias is a whole potential thread in itself...
 
yatiqiri
#12 Posted : 7/14/2011 4:53:56 PM

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I used spiceman's poor mans tek. The previous extraction was with citric acid. I used vinegar this time and had different results.

yatiqiri attached the following image(s):
acaciafloribunda.jpg (204kb) downloaded 555 time(s).
bark.jpg (154kb) downloaded 547 time(s).
barkpowder.jpg (124kb) downloaded 541 time(s).
dish.jpg (273kb) downloaded 544 time(s).
spc.9g.jpg (77kb) downloaded 532 time(s).
spice.4g.jpg (76kb) downloaded 526 time(s).
 
yatiqiri
#13 Posted : 7/14/2011 5:12:37 PM

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different in that using lemon juice to acidify had yielded a mix of yellow oily orange goo crystals. using vinegar this time yielded mostly white solids, some slight yellowish tint.

The pictures are of crude alkaloids, the freebased product, I havent taken further steps to purify, initially I recovered .9g crude alkaloids, and later .4g more, from 50.6g of powdered bark.

these alkaloids are not as potent as pure dmt. It may be possible that it contains some dmt, but its effects are overpowered by the other alkaloids present which has effects like I described, that come up slower and last longer, and are not as powerful as pure dmt.

I have also noticed a possible tolerance with this acacia spice. this week I smoked it not more than once a day or every other day and the effects are not as strong as the first time I tried it.

Is there anything I could do to this spice to possibly isolate a more refined tryptamine product?
would naphta be a good idea? maybe some of the other alkaloids are not soluble
 
nen888
#14 Posted : 7/15/2011 1:13:42 PM
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[was logged out when writing this, didn't see photo, so see next post]
..plants seeding or floweringcan create problematic results. for maximum possible dmt extraction use some ethanol.
tolerance? it is also possible we have a mild phenethylamine here as the main base, with traces tryptamines.

Was the bark extract 'the same' as the leaves? (were there either sedative or stimulant aspects)
& (more importantly)
Are you 100% sure the tree is A. floribunda?[SEE UPDATE ID NEXT POST] (the similar looking A. melanoxylon has little or no dmt/nmt, but some mildly active alkaloid, maybe simple tryptamine.)

Smilethanks for the hours of research...


 
nen888
#15 Posted : 7/15/2011 1:16:02 PM
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UPDATE!! just saw the tree photos..

This is not A. floribunda! I will ID it for you ASAP...
it is similar to A. pycnantha (0.18%dmt 1 finding), but i don't think it is.
a few similar looking species have yielded simple phenethylamines...

here is A. floribunda (Gossamer Wattle or White Sallow Wattle):
nen888 attached the following image(s):
acacia floribunda 03.jpg (18kb) downloaded 491 time(s).
 
yatiqiri
#16 Posted : 7/15/2011 6:40:40 PM

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nen888 wrote:


Are you 100% sure the tree is A. floribunda?[SEE UPDATE ID NEXT POST] (the similar looking A. melanoxylon has little or no dmt/nmt, but some mildly active alkaloid, maybe simple tryptamine.



There are three main species of acacia that have been planted all around the city. They are identified in the botanical garden, and in the seed stores where they sell these acacias because they are popular here. They are acacia floribunda, melanoxylon, and dealbata.

most acacias are similar looking, but melanoxylon is quite distinct from the picture I posted. also It shouldnt contain such a high concentration of alkaloids as I found.


the bark extract was the same as the leaves, there was just a higer concentration of alkaloids.

what about seeds? should I test seeds? or flowers?
 
nen888
#17 Posted : 7/16/2011 12:55:47 AM
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..hi, the photo of the tree is certainly not A. dealbata (a bi-pinnate species, i.e fern like leaf), nor floribunda/melanoxylon.

it is in a sub-class of acacia in which not many tryptamines have been found yet. there are quite a few
in this sub-group, incl. A. pycnantha & A. falcata.

in seeds you're likely to get bufotenine & weird compounds (defense probably).

yatiqiri, you've found something in a tree that has likely never been looked at chemically...Very happy

Could you characterize the effects of the extract in more detail?
 
yatiqiri
#18 Posted : 7/21/2011 9:40:41 PM

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the poor mans tek, applied to this acacia , pulls more alkaloids than what naphta would pull.

approximately 2/3 of the bark spice is insoluble in warm naphta, and it is only slightly active when smoked. the rest of the spice freeze precipitated from the naphta and is much more active than the insoluble portion.

so im thinking maybe 2/3 of the bark alkaloids are a phenethylamine, and the rest 1/3 are tryptamines?

Im currently extracting from a large quantity of leaves, I'll post my results when I finish.

hmm as to the effects, well they give brightly colorful visuals, a very pleasant body high, music sounds incredible, effects last up to an hour, no negative side effects. if im laying down its quite dreamy and I usually fall asleep and have lots of vivid dreams.

I still havent experimented much with it. I few times I snorted a few lines and had similar effects, even better than smoked. I havent tested to see if its orally active without an maoi.
 
nen888
#19 Posted : 7/22/2011 6:10:54 AM
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..thank you for the research Yatiqiri, this is all very interesting indeed..Smile

..here is a photo of Acacia pycnantha (Australia's floral emblem)..your tree is either it or (i suspect) a closely related species.
Seed pod shape & seed colour/size would allow finer identification...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia_pycnantha_Golden_Wattle.jpg (1,187kb) downloaded 445 time(s).
 
hebrew
#20 Posted : 7/22/2011 7:21:46 AM
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was looking at a pycnantha just this afternoon as i noticed it was starting to flower, planted right next to a nice little foribunda whos flowers a beautifully emerging also.

so i am interested is this golden wattle yatiqiri is working with? yatiqiri any further ideas or photos of the plant in general?

close up of phyllodes?

how exciting, this is how they found obtusifolia wrong ID for maidenii. and golden wattle, the national emblem, hahaha trypamine emblem. awesome!!!

so yatiqiri you find the poor man tek a good tek? compared to your standard A/B, you got that bark nice and fine too, what did you use?
 
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