Wow, xtals 1" - 2" long and proper fat. no evap or freeze prep!

Hi All,

Sorry this is my first post and not to have introduced myself yet. I will do that in another thread in a bit. I have tried to see if anyone has noticed this before, or posted this before, but i cant seem to find any info.

this is quite a long post

Anyway, I just had the most phenomenal dream. First a little bit of background. I have been having some quite vivid and deep dreams based around mhrb for quite a few years now. I don’t know why, but they nearly always involve a slight but not significant variation of a STB theme, with lowish bp naphtha (white spirit where i come from) I have visited these forums a few times before, but only as a lurker.

I have attempted at the end of this to interpret the meaning of this dream in a chemical contex. i do not have a sufficient chemistry background to know if my hypothesis is plausible.

On with tonights dream. - the first in 5ish months.

-- the following is an account of tonights dream. tenses and 1st person writing are for artistic style.
-- the images a recreations from my personal crystal and rock collection. again they are for artistic style and to help get illustrate my point - these are not the normal sized shards that you see, these arnt shards, the are more like icicles.

I havent had any dreams for a while. mainly because i went on an extended holiday last summer and moved house when i got back. I noticed the powers that be have started to have a bit of a moan about mhrb. I only just found this out but still have 250g left over from last year. I was going to have a play with this, so i got it out, it was then I saw my jar - i forgot about that jar...

about 5 months ago i thought i could quickly whip up a STB with approx 200g of mhrb and 200g of NaHO in a 3 litre glass jar. I have dreamt of 2 hour turn arounds before.

one thing to note, i am really fussy about solvents, really fussy. a lot of people are nowhere near as fussy as they should be. but that is another post.
I never heat my solvents or mhrb powder in my dreams everything happens at room temp.

so started the procedure and send a friend off to get my specific solvent from a specific shop. - I will only use that one.

It took him ages and came back with the wrong one.

"its all the same init? what are you moaning about? anyway that shop is shut now" - yeah nice one, you wont be saying that when you are blind and have cancer...

I know this fluid is good only in regards to its lack of additives, i didnt really have a clue to its hydrocarbon content. (a very important part of my normal process - hydrocarbons )

I knew i didnt want to use what he brought, and the only other thing to hand was some lighter fluid - cant remember what brand. I had to go out shortly too, due to him taking ages.

so I dumped all the stuff together in my magical way (.5l H2O mixed with 250g mhrb to form a paste. 2.2l H2O + NaOH added to paste. close lid, shake a lot and use an electric handwhisk, whilst there is still the foam add the lighter fluid. - this cuts though the foam and creates two layers really quickly.)

At this point it is worth noting
1 - I have never used lighter fluid for this before.
2 - where the two layers meet there is a shiny layer of what looks like a bed of crystal. - those that have seen the swirl of an A/B will know what i mean.
3 - normally at this point i roll (not turn end over end) the jar 30 times. this makes this layer shiny layer disappear quite a lot and then after being left for half hourish it is completely gone.

So I did my normal rolls and it didnt seem to shift the layer at all. so i was thinking great, i have to evap this and its not picking it up. yay.
I then went out to meet a few friend and kept it under the sink. it was left there for 3 weeks then i moved.
I didnt interfere with it at all apart from moving the jar.

I was a bit disheartened and couldn’t be bothered with the effort of trying to recover it etc.

but tonight 5 months later, i found the jar.

I want to do some experiments with the new kid on the block (ACRB) so i might as well just evap this, they silver layer has disappeared, but why is there a matchstick in there? I am not that slack... that is not me at all. its floating and everything, i would have noticed before!

so I manage to pull off about 90ml of the 120 lighter fluid i originally put in there, put 30 ml on a plate to evap and see what rubbish is there and what i have to clean up. (NEVER smoke anything that has been evaped and not cleaned!)

took 30ml off that to evap and see what was in there

I thought i would checkout the matchstick so i grabbed a spoon and scooped it out - oh its much bigger than a match, must be a bit of bark... i was going to chuck it, but thought it best to clean it before i put it in the bin, so i ran it under the tap, half breaks off and goes down the sink. the half left is a massive crystal, huge.

I was now thinking contaminates, but what... how come it is so big? so i give it a quick wash under the tap, nothing too excessive as you will see from the pictures. then took a lighter to a bit and it smelt like the nicest spice in the world and left no residue (i didnt not smoke any of it, not a chance, it still could be anything. smells like the real deal though. these crystals are completely odourless when not heated)

odd eh.

I was so surprised I thought I would post my dream here. If i can go back there there are some ideas i would like to try and i think there are some quite interesting implications. esp for the no solvent crowd.

my guess as to what went on:
I am thinking that the silver layer was crystals.
this didnt take on too many xtals and so left the layer there
this layer coalesced into big crystals on its own because it is insoluble in water
or maybe
the lighter fluid didnt disolve the dm properly and it fluxed back and forth making ever bigger xtals (a bit like the fridge freeze bit)

i always normally, in my dreams, try to minimise the contact the spice has with the soda solution, and get the solvent in there asap.

what i would like to do next if i can get back there when i go back to sleep:
1 - crush and clean the xtals with soda and water.
2 - proper precip with my known good solvents to see what is real and what isnt. - maybe assay some to gauge potency.
3 - check the evap dish
4 - weigh them
5 - try this without any solvent at all, but maybe an oil to sit on top of the mhrb liquid.
6 - try this as the second part of an A/B so the liquid is clear and mostly acidic spice water.

Notes on the pictures,

These crystals are completely clear, the discolouration is the mhrb + NaOH. this can be cleaned.
These were taken with a webcam, i will update, tomorrow probably, when i can get a high res camera.

Anyone else ever seen anything like this before?
What do you think of the ideas?
Sorry if this has been posted before. I hope the file attachments work.
the coin is the picture is a UK 2 pence coin. it is an inch in diameter. this xtal was _twice_ this size.

UPDATE: the 30ml has mainly vapped now, and there is a little amount of crystal formation, but not a lot. it does however smell really strongly of skatol (afaik, that is the jasmine like smell i normally associate with dmt) these xtals are looking better by the minute. anyway off for another nap.
just added another 120ml of lighter fluid and did my 30 turns. will pull this off tomorrow and evap to see what it looks like.

cheers,

thpthial

the next update.
I have posted it is a reply to keep the wall of images down a bit. – is there a better way to do this?

this again has been written using terms like "I", speaking about dreams as if they were real, saying i will do this in the future is a writing device to make this easier to read. i do not make or use drugs and strongly encourage others not to.

so, I had a little nap last night and replenished the lighter fluid. today i managed to get my solvent of choice.

I just pulled off the lighter fluid and it is evapping. - this pull smells a much more pungent skatole scent to it. i got 90ml back from 120.

I have just added a third 120ml of lighter fluid did 30 spins, am waiting for it to settle then will pull it and try one last pull, this time with my preferred brand of white spirit.

I have a few photos from what evapped last night. the crystals look like standard small shards. there is some oil residue on the plate though, so i will set up my ghetto pc fan evapper and put that on it to see what the results are.

i have a strong feeling they are plant fats/oils and wont dry. i will reex all this when the pulls are finished.

a few more thoughts and observations

when washing the big crystals, i noticed they dont float in distilled water. so why where they floating in the jar?
the mimosa + NaOH must have changed the buoyancy of the water, therefore allowing it to float. (maybe a few of the issues with low yields i have had before were xtals forming in the soup and sinking. and then getting disposed of with the soup... I only seem to dream of 250g+ extractions)

just a general chem question,

can something dissolved in a solvent be displaced by something else, therefore making it crash out?
i.e. could the dmt over time have been forced out of the solvent, by the solvent taking in plant oils. obviously this is a slow reaction. I am pretty sure this kind of displacement doesn’t happen, but who knows. Its an idea. - when i want to pull yellow spice rather than white i do 75 turns leave for 2 hours another 75 turns. however I have found that just leaving the solvent in the jar with no rotations after 24 hours it has yellowed.

I dont know though. for me it is just observation then guessing at what might have caused it.

if i can get back to my dream when i next sleep i hope i can take the 50g of mhrb i have left and set up 2x25g to see if i can force crystal growth with olive oil and with my chosen solvent.

see how all this works with the confusa. I am also planning on some proper confusa extraction with either removal of the nmt or its conversion to dmt. ro maybe just leave it depending on what it turns out like. - but thats another thread.

here are two pics of the plates. sorry no highres camera yet.

as you can see there is little crystals and it stinks of skatole/jasmine i wouldnt have been chuffed getting this on a first pull from 250g.
it might also be worth noting that the greasy oily layer just wipes off to leave crunchy crystals. a water wash might help this. i know it doesnt look like it by the crystals are sharp and nice. the standard light yellow i would expect from a freeze precip. of my normal solvent if it was the same colour as the fluid i evapped.

keep on truckin.

thp.

Wow, that is ONE MASSIVE XTAL....very nice.

Like the experimentation too.

some numbers...

I am using the first person for stylistic reasons and for ease of illustration. i do not condone illegal things. please do not try this at home.

hi acolon_5, it is big isn't it.

Here is a breakdown of what was what

fat crystal 0.831mg - it reexed to a massive pile of snowstorm white.
other crystal 0.371mg
lost bit 0.600mg - guess maybe more mabye less.

so that is 1.802mg
not bad.

the solvent when evapped contained

crunchy v small yellow xtals 0.155mg
waxy substance 0.200mg
crunchy xtals covered in goop 0.300mg

not all of the goop dissolved in acetone, what didnt went brown. all the xtals did.

left over goop 0.110mg

so in total 0.545mg of something acetone soluable was reovered from the solvent (lighter fluid)

The stuff from the solvent was reex and seemed fine. the xtal was reexed with acetone and seemed perfect.

i am writing this up at the moment. and am doing an experiment with the last mhrb i think i will ever see. it is only 30 grams. so I am only going to do the olive oil experiment as outline above. with a few modifications. i will post the full details a bit later.

one important point is now i am not sure if 250g of mhrb was used it might have been 200. still these results would be fine either way.

well it would seem that olive oil is not the one.

it is too viscous for the rootbark to fall back through. so maybe a thin rapeseed oil. more experimentation is needed.

however, the theory seems sound, it all seemed to work as expected, just the white crystals got trapped in on and under the oil. i am confident it will drop through, eventually... maybe in a few years... so another oil needs to be found.

a friend is getting a quite a bit of A. Confusa next week and said she would check it out. will morst more then. in the meantime i will write up the experiments and the propsed extraction tek.

word.

thp.