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Growing Up - A Profound Iboga Root Bark Experience Options
 
Bill Cipher
#21 Posted : 1/18/2011 6:44:09 AM

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Gratefuldad - Are you saying that a flood dose of iboga actually did short circuit your methadone withdrawal? Completely?? What about afterwards? The withdrawal must kick back in after it exits your system, no? Have you been opiate free since your first experience?

This is all really fascinating to me. I had never heard of iboga during my days of active addiction.
 

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GratefulDad
#22 Posted : 1/18/2011 7:37:24 AM

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Yes, one dose of iboga got me clean. I was addicted to opiates/opioids for about 7 years. 3.5 of those were spent on methadone. I reduced from 100 mgs a day down to 12 mgs a day over a year or so, then flew to the Netherlands to do the iboga treatment with Sara Glatt. It took a couple weeks before I really felt normal in my skin, and I was still kind of worn out and had a general lack of energy for a few weeks. But I was clean from methadone and all opiates, for 5 years after that single dose. There was no unbearable withdrawal, only very minor symptoms compared to any of the other 7 clinical detoxes I had tried before starting the methadone maintenance program. I even used a couple times right after I returned, because I didn't listen to Sara and take some boosters. However, I did successfully quit. I also quit smoking cigarettes within 5 months and stopped eating sweets and drinking sodas.

I broke my collar bone in 09 and they put me on vicodin. After a couple checkups, they could only medicate me and let it heal, so I switched to poppy pods, which were cheaper than doctor visits, since I had no insurance. After I was healed, I again did iboga to kick. I have been clean since, again, and the pods/morphine I was using were much, much easier than kicking methadone.

Iboga effectively reduces opiate withdrawal from about 80-100% for most people. It also can eliminate cravings for numerous other drugs, including alcohol, cigarettes, cocaine, and methamphetamine. With opioids there can be some post acute withdrawal that lingers, especially for drugs like suboxone, or methadone, with extremely long half lives. It is often recommended that someone switch to shorter acting opiates for a few weeks before undergoing iboga treatment, to make it easier. Another option is to take small boosters of iboga extracts or bark, as needed, to eliminate the post acute withdrawal until your body/brain are again producing your own endogenous endorphins. The psychedelic aspect allows people to get to the root of their problems often, and the action on the receptors keeps them from craving and experiencing withdrawal.

If you'd like to google GDNF and ibogaine, there are some scientific articles on some of the action of ibogaine on the brain. It seems to do a lot to repair the dopamine/endorphin system, which is why people recover much faster when using iboga to detox. It is remarkable medicine, and there have even been some clinical trials done by Deborah Mash.

The problem is, who stands to make money on something that cures addiction? Even if one had to do 2 grams of ibogaine each time, and had to do it even 15 times before it stuck, that would only be 30 grams of ibogaine. The money is in maintenance drugs, that is why the establishment pushes methadone and suboxone, or baclofen for alcoholics. Something you have to take to be okay makes a lot more money than something that addresses the root of the problem and allows someone to totally walk away from an addiction. It has proven effective on multiple types of addictions and other amazing things are reported by people who have undergone treatment, but it may still be a good long while before we will see iboga in any mainstream treatment centers.

The anti-addiction properties were discovered by Howard Lotsof (RIP) who apparently was the first (or one of the first) guy(s) in the US, to be busted for LSD, and he was also a former heroin addict. He was given some ibogaine by a chemist friend, and he decided to take it. When it kicked in he had a remarkable trip, and when he awoke the day after the effects wore off, he noticed he was no longer dope sick. He later spent his life trying to promote ibogaine and bring it to the scientists and the masses.

I don't want to clutter up Pandora's thread too much more, but there is a lot of information about it on the internet. Take a look at some of the science and the reports, and see for yourself! Smile
 
polytrip
#23 Posted : 1/18/2011 4:58:53 PM
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The highest dose of iboga i've ever taken was 5 grams of rootbark. Of all the substances i'm familiar with, i found it mostly resembles a high dose of oral cannabis at that dose of 5 grams.
Somewhere in between 5 and 10 grams, there must be a a point where it realy starts getting heavy and where it starts lasting longer and longer AND where the serious side-effects start kicking in.

It looks like with iboga, the more you take of it, the greater the increase of it's strength. Like 5 grams being a lot stronger than 3 grams, and the difference between 7 grams and 5 grams being greater than the difference between 5 and 3 and so on.

At 5 grams i started to have visual effects that had tryptamine-like characteristics at first, but that quickly became more like real-life pictures.
While at three grams, i didn't have those real-life visions yet. So i can imagine 10 grams being much, much, much more immersive than any DMT experience can ever get.

These trip-reports make me more and more convinced i have to take higher doses of it. I have experienced enough of it to realy want more of it and to realy be able to imagine what pandorra describes in her report. I have experienced enough of it to know that i haven't experienced enough of it by far.

Besides a very powerfull psychedelic, it also can be a powerfull medicine against probably much more conditions than it's currently used for. As a powerfull medicine it probably has significant side-effects as well, so a miracle cure it probably won't be. But it's potential is far greater than that of most other drug's that are being proscribed against psychiatric disorders because this substance seems to realy have a body/mind effect: it's psychological effects are immediately linked to it's clinical effects, so they could realy get 'etched' into your body-mind system.

It's also quite remarkable that it is sort of three psychedelic drug's at once: it's a psychedelic tryptamine like DMT, an NMDA antagonist like ketamine, DXM and PCP and a kappa-opioïd receptor agonist like salvia.
 
Pandora
#24 Posted : 1/18/2011 7:42:21 PM

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I find myself feeling baseline today, and yet . . . .

It is like a mental version of that square controller/magnifier stayed with me, even though I cannot directly visualize it. It's like I can still use it. I can look at my memory as a whole by backing up in a way I was never able to do before. Then I can move forward and pick up photographic details. My husband has been blown away at how I am remember old names and details with crystal clarity and great accuracy.

But, I can also move in and examine traumatic details, . . . but then back out and see them as part of the tapestry of the whole. I am a mote in this Universe. Every mote is essential. I am made up of motes. Every mote is essential.

This new precise, yet expanded viewpoint has freed something in me. I can look at the traumas, the pain, the bullshit and then back up. I have ALWAYS had great long term memory and access. BUT . . . . I have recently come to realize that it was terribly, terribly dissociated, derealized and depersonalized and due to these factors horribly fractured. At this point in time, this no longer feels like the case. Having gained this sense of myself in time and history, personal, family, species, planet, Universe . . . . . it is so healing.
"But even if nothing lasts and everything is lost, there is still the intrinsic value of the moment. The present moment, ultimately, is more than enough, a gift of grace and unfathomable value, which our friend and lover death paints in stark relief."
-Rick Doblin, Ph.D. MAPS President
MAPS Bulletin Vol. XX, No. 1, pg. 2


Power is Power, but Knowledge is Self-Empowerment
 
GratefulDad
#25 Posted : 1/18/2011 8:28:25 PM

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I am by all means an extreme hard head to nearly any drug, iboga included, and at 4 grams of quality bark, there are definite trails and those white flickers like Pandora describes. It changes the flavors and smells of things and I can often get that buzzing in the ears, as well as minor ataxia. Many people think I am insane for eating 4 grams of bark and functioning well on that dose, so perhaps the bark you had polytrip was not quite as good, as what Pandora took. Either way, there is a definite level where all of the outer visual things are less noticeable, and the full dream like visions begin to come on. The head gets extremely heavy, and ataxia is also very heavy. It is hard to move without getting nauseous, and balance is just about gone, completely.

It takes me quite a large dose to get to the visionary state, but for most people about 20-30 grams of bark is as far as they need to go. This is with average bark. I believe the stuff Pandora had was of exceptional quality, and another full grown man, probably near 200 lbs, took 24 g and had a mind blowing experience as well.. Also, he was kicking an opiate habit, and when that isn't part of it, it seems much lower doses can be used.

Also, you are right about it being useful for many other things. Their are numerous anecdotal reports about lowering viral counts for Hep C and other remarkable health improvements. There is not enough study being done to confirm all of the benefits, and since iboga's action is on so many different receptors, it's hard for the medical establishment to really understand all the mechanisms. Never the less, it is some remarkable medicine, IMO..
 
polytrip
#26 Posted : 1/18/2011 8:59:39 PM
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Pandora wrote:
I find myself feeling baseline today, and yet . . . .

It is like a mental version of that square controller/magnifier stayed with me, even though I cannot directly visualize it. It's like I can still use it. I can look at my memory as a whole by backing up in a way I was never able to do before. Then I can move forward and pick up photographic details. My husband has been blown away at how I am remember old names and details with crystal clarity and great accuracy.

But, I can also move in and examine traumatic details, . . . but then back out and see them as part of the tapestry of the whole. I am a mote in this Universe. Every mote is essential. I am made up of motes. Every mote is essential.

This new precise, yet expanded viewpoint has freed something in me. I can look at the traumas, the pain, the bullshit and then back up. I have ALWAYS had great long term memory and access. BUT . . . . I have recently come to realize that it was terribly, terribly dissociated, derealized and depersonalized and due to these factors horribly fractured. At this point in time, this no longer feels like the case. Having gained this sense of myself in time and history, personal, family, species, planet, Universe . . . . . it is so healing.

This is very weird. I started to have acces to childhood memory's as well after experimenting with a very low dose of about 3 grams of rootbark.
I don't know how this phenomenon can be explained.
It could be a sort of mental 'sedation' that allows you to re-experience painfull things. Things that would otherwise be too painfull maybe.
But maybe it's not linked to it's sedating NMDA-antagonist effect at all.

The bark i had was quite good, i think. I definately started to have full-blown visions, but i think i was just sort of standing in the doorway still, the visions appeared and then dissapeared again júst before they started to become immersive. Perhaps even a tiny bit more would have caused a fully immersive experience.
Anyway, i found 5 grams actually very enjoyable and didn't have any negative side-effect yet, but i hear of people becoming quite paralised at 10 grams, so somewhere in between 5 and 10 grams, there must be a point where you can say it starts to become realy heavy.
 
ouro
#27 Posted : 1/18/2011 11:46:44 PM

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I got a lot of childhood memories just from eating 1 gram a day for about half a week. 1g/day for a week was amazingly beneficial to me in fact; my posture improved, my digestion improved, my hygiene even improved, my muscles became more steady, my memory improved, my conversation become more easy and playful... it really was like a miracle. Other people notice these changes.

I think the memory effects are linked to the physical side effects. It's my personal belief that memories are stored in the body and in muscles just as much as in the mind, and the iboga ataxia is one of the only ways to let these emotions and memories escape. I notice harmalas have a similar effect; their ataxia seems very similar to iboga's to me, and I get some interesting recall from aya sometimes. Their visual style is also very similar in my mind, very dreamlike and not as geometric as most classic psychs. In fact, the ibogaine molecule looks quite a lot like a beta carboline attached to a tropane, which is practically how it behaves.

As far as ataxia goes, I'd say that it varies from person to person. In my flood, I ate around 25 grams of good bark and I walked to the bathroom to pee without issues. I wasn't in any shape to run an obstacle course mind you, but I made it to the bathroom and didn't even miss the toilet.

EDITTED in the pics, first is tropane, then a beta carboline, then ibogaine.
ouro attached the following image(s):
412px-Tropane.png (13kb) downloaded 248 time(s).
pinolene.gif (6kb) downloaded 247 time(s).
ibo.gif (15kb) downloaded 245 time(s).
 
Pandora
#28 Posted : 1/19/2011 12:19:45 AM

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Interesting idea. I'm not sure I think that cells other than brain cells have memories other than what I would call muscle memory, but interesting to consider. As mentioned, I got tremendous memory access and integration and it is ongoing as far as I can determine.

As mentioned, I was extremely unstable for an extended period. I under-emphasized the shaking of my extremities, but in fact it was profound and long lasting.

Finally, in hindsight, there is one key thing I did not mention. I had issues with serious overheating. The overheating incidents always came with the purging and were the only times I seriously considered calling for my sitter - calling and asking him to carry me and drop me into a cold bath. I wound up half naked for most of the visionary part. The only times I have come close to this were overheating (classic, LOL) at a rave once and hot flashes related to hormones and drugs that were interacting. But, as mentioned the iboga root bark produced the most subjectively intense overheating I have experienced within my memory.
"But even if nothing lasts and everything is lost, there is still the intrinsic value of the moment. The present moment, ultimately, is more than enough, a gift of grace and unfathomable value, which our friend and lover death paints in stark relief."
-Rick Doblin, Ph.D. MAPS President
MAPS Bulletin Vol. XX, No. 1, pg. 2


Power is Power, but Knowledge is Self-Empowerment
 
GratefulDad
#29 Posted : 1/19/2011 1:27:05 AM

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I walked to the store on about the equivalent of around 30+ of bark, except it was extract. It was on the come up, as well, not fully in but I could still make it to the bathroom and stuff. My first time was on 5 grams of crystally extract. It takes me a huge dose to get where most people do, even with iboga. My second two floods, I only scratched the surfaces with the visions. I would see faint visions that didn't fully develop or begin to move. It worked for detox, but was nothing like my first experience.

My next flood I am going to keep taking it until I am there.. I think I will use the bark too, and do it over several hours, to minimize throwing up and possibly wasting the expensive bark.. I have been preparing myself for this since my flood last year, and I have no real addictions anymore (maybe the Nexus?).. It seems the bark is a gentle way, and lots of people seem to be getting what they need in doses much lower than I have needed with various extracts, so I am going to try with some very good bark. Perhaps, the traditional preparation is good to try at least once, although, my buddy who got down 24 grams, and threw up a few times said, that he would never use the bark to flood again.

Also, Pandora, I have heard from providers it is good to help keep the person cool when they experience overheating, because it can put more stress on the heart. I did notice myself getting warm on my last two floods, but I could manage it pretty easy by removing the covers when I felt hot.
 
Bancopuma
#30 Posted : 1/19/2011 1:35:47 AM

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Interesting ouru your comparisons of Iboga and the beta-carboline alkaloids. I don't think they are worlds apart at all. These days a nice caapi rich cup of ayahuasca puts me in a state VERY reminiscent of an Iboga trance, but different, hard to explain. I'm impressed you were able to walk on 25g of root bark...that's unusual.

And Pandora, I too have experienced that nasty overeating once. It was on my second experience with the root bark capsules, I had 14g in the end. Interestingly I found it much harder on my system, physically and psychologically, than my initiation, which was with TA equivalent to 22-24g of root bark. I've heard a reference to this somewhere as 'holy fire' I think. This overheating at the time was a short lived episode however, my 'healer' at the time suggested it was a mild form or serotonin syndrome, I'm not sure about that. But I never experienced this on the TA or pure Ibogaine...part of the reason I'm a fan of the TA. While eating the root bark is the way nature intended, it does in some ways seem to be a little harder on one's system, maybe just because our guts can't process the bark.
 
jungleheart
#31 Posted : 1/19/2011 3:03:18 AM
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Pandora, the description of your memory reminds me a bit of the way the people with "The Gift of Endless Memory" describe it, the rare people who remember every single detail of their lives. The article says that certain parts of their brain are larger than those of normal humans. Interesting correlation Smile
 
polytrip
#32 Posted : 1/19/2011 1:47:38 PM
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ouro wrote:
I got a lot of childhood memories just from eating 1 gram a day for about half a week. 1g/day for a week was amazingly beneficial to me in fact; my posture improved, my digestion improved, my hygiene even improved, my muscles became more steady, my memory improved, my conversation become more easy and playful... it really was like a miracle. Other people notice these changes.

That's awesome. Did you experience any side-effects like insomnia or drowsyness?
 
ouro
#33 Posted : 1/19/2011 7:42:24 PM

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The most serious side effect I experienced was a severely decreased appetite for a few weeks, which did come back before I stopped microdosing. Sorry to derail... Pandora, did you notice any effects to your appetite or food preference? I hear reports of serious diet changes are normal after an iboga experience. Personally, I realized that I already knew many of my eating habits did not serve me and it became effortless to stop my bad habits.
 
Pandora
#34 Posted : 1/19/2011 8:38:17 PM

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Please do not apologize, these are good discussions.

I have had a very low appetite, it is true. I find that the healthier and more raw the food, the more of it I can eat.

I came to the realization that I am done with Ketamine and got rid of it all, every last milligram. I have radically reduced (tho not eliminated) caffeine and have not had enough headaches to warrant an aspirin. Last time I quit caffeine it was 3 weeks of hell.

I am fairly sure I'll smoke cannabis until I cannot, so that remains in place and relatively steady, but it seems stronger all of a sudden. Getting the usual pain relief and relaxation, but also noticing much more of an entheogenic aspect at times.

I am beginning to cry a bit. It is only coming in small bursts, often triggered by something unrelated to the ongoing integration. I suspect a final cathartic storm may be coming, but that it will blow through quickly and cleanly.

I am still having difficulty sleeping. But, I am up to 5-6 hours out of every 24.

I feel the integration happening in an ongoing, smooth and gentle manner. I feel very, very good without being manic. I have energy but am calm and something of the stillness of the experience has remained with me.
"But even if nothing lasts and everything is lost, there is still the intrinsic value of the moment. The present moment, ultimately, is more than enough, a gift of grace and unfathomable value, which our friend and lover death paints in stark relief."
-Rick Doblin, Ph.D. MAPS President
MAPS Bulletin Vol. XX, No. 1, pg. 2


Power is Power, but Knowledge is Self-Empowerment
 
polytrip
#35 Posted : 1/19/2011 9:16:44 PM
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Pandora wrote:
Please do not apologize, these are good discussions.

I have had a very low appetite, it is true. I find that the healthier and more raw the food, the more of it I can eat.

I came to the realization that I am done with Ketamine and got rid of it all, every last milligram. I have radically reduced (tho not eliminated) caffeine and have not had enough headaches to warrant an aspirin. Last time I quit caffeine it was 3 weeks of hell.

I am fairly sure I'll smoke cannabis until I cannot, so that remains in place and relatively steady, but it seems stronger all of a sudden. Getting the usual pain relief and relaxation, but also noticing much more of an entheogenic aspect at times.

I am beginning to cry a bit. It is only coming in small bursts, often triggered by something unrelated to the ongoing integration. I suspect a final cathartic storm may be coming, but that it will blow through quickly and cleanly.

I am still having difficulty sleeping. But, I am up to 5-6 hours out of every 24.

I feel the integration happening in an ongoing, smooth and gentle manner. I feel very, very good without being manic. I have energy but am calm and something of the stillness of the experience has remained with me.

Wow, that's so cool to hear.
I hope that feeling stays with you for as long as possible.
Many people who've taken flood doses say that it can last for several months.
I wonder if you like bancopuma, notice a greater sensitivity for ayahuasca (caapi vine) in the future (i figure you're not gonna take ayahuasca tonight, having to integrate everything, still).
 
acolon_5
#36 Posted : 1/19/2011 9:25:42 PM

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What an amazing report Pandora....It almost makes me want to break out my last 20g of iboga...

When I was low dosing to break an opiate addiction I was taking 1-3g daily, after a 5g dose at the begining...I had almost 0 w/d's. however, I was chewing the root and noticed a lot more stimulation with chewing than by oral consumption

...and I noticed a few things that were a bit weird. My apetite was through the roof, I couldn't get enough food. Cannabis was much, much stronger than before, even for a few weeks afterwards. Also there was a lot more energy and motivation than before...however all of this wore off after a few weeks. Oh and I couldn't smoke spice, it just wouldn't do anything...nor would mushrooms, nor would valium, ambien (and their cousins), but when I couldn't sleep, which was often on iboga, melatonin would always knock me out within 30 minutes (whereas normally it doesn't do much of anything).
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I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
Jorkest
#37 Posted : 1/19/2011 10:33:26 PM

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ive been feeling the iboga calling to me again..and soon i hope to get more acquainted with this wonderful medicine

wonderful report Pandora..you did a wonderful job describing your experience..absolutely wonderful
it's a sound
 
Pandora
#38 Posted : 1/21/2011 4:05:13 PM

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This may be my last post in this thread. The integration is continuing in a way that is so smooth and elegant it rivals mathematics.

Last night I came up with this last night when we were watching some cheezy old movie involving a scene where the 23rd Psalm was read aloud.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of Death I shall not fear. For, though I know nothing, I have lived life in a way that is true to myself and what I know is right. I WILL remember my ancestors and those who went before me. I will allow myself to fully feel how much I have missed them and revel in the fact of our imminent reunion. I WILL remember the children, my niece, and nephew and hopefully their children and grandchildren . . . . I will go easily into that long goodnight.

Understand the meaning of our ancestors and our descendents. Find our place in the here and now.

The other day my husband spontaneously said, "Wow, it's like your card catalog has been re-ordered, like your mind has been de-fragged." Word.

I feel like I have been given a tremendous gift, shown an incredibly deep secret. This really has turned into my personal Mysteries of Eleusis and all I can say is I hope it was like this for the ancient people. That and I think I understand the Bwiti a bit more. Why it is important to partake of this Initiation before one dies . . . .
"But even if nothing lasts and everything is lost, there is still the intrinsic value of the moment. The present moment, ultimately, is more than enough, a gift of grace and unfathomable value, which our friend and lover death paints in stark relief."
-Rick Doblin, Ph.D. MAPS President
MAPS Bulletin Vol. XX, No. 1, pg. 2


Power is Power, but Knowledge is Self-Empowerment
 
MooshyPeaches
#39 Posted : 4/26/2011 1:12:08 AM

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Amazing
 
psychanaut
#40 Posted : 7/30/2011 11:17:10 PM

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what a superb report, while reading i felt like i was on the journey with you- there is such clarity in your writing. I agree with you that each one of us should partake of this initiation at least once before we die. It is like, at least for me, getting what your husband described, like having your mind de-fragged, plus an upgrade.

i worked with a shaman. we journeyed together and it was for me a life changing experience. i kept a journal for my 3 1/2 week stay. i had to cancel my trip home twice because i could not come down. i experienced 10 days without sleeping.

but even with all that, my experience was not as deep as yours. but i could relate to your every detail.

so i'll try to edit down my journal into a trip report. i did learn much about the history of iboga and the way it is traditionally used in the Bwiti tribe, what ages they begin and what their experiences are like. plus the other people i met and their amazing experiences and healings.

you might like to know the shaman said that the iboga will stay in your system for about 6 months as long as you do not do things that stress your immune system like too much coffee, alcohol, pharmaceutical drugs, too much sugar, etc. he said marijuana was fine.



 
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