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Tetrahydroharmine (THH) sublingually Options
 
69ron
#21 Posted : 10/6/2008 11:49:28 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
SWIM got his bit today...gonna try something around 40-60 mg sublingualy...see what happens



so SWIM tried around 40mgs...it is extremely mild and pleasant...a wonderful glow...as 69ron said...it makes the the tongue go a bit numb and tingly...its soft buzzing kind of energy...that permeates the body...held spit in mouth for 20 minutes...and then swallowed...seems to have peaked around 20 minutes after swallowing...and then stuck around for about an hour or so...feels like it would be ever so nice with the spice...extremely calming...clear headed and can easily interact with the world...smooth...would probably be good for the beginning of a mushroom trip...and SWIM thinks that it would be a nice start to an LSD or LSA trip...make them last longer..but not too much...it feels like it would make spice last for about 30 minutes maybe..SWIM says that sHe hasnt tried it yet..but plans to soon...and SWIM can feel that slight LSD sensation to it...its got that kind of energy...the slightly energetic buzz throughout the body..but not close to being overwhelming or antsy...more smooth...thats why SWIM thinks it would be a nice combo with L...


Seems like you had a very similar experience from it.

In your opinion, was it anything like harmine, harmaline, caapi or rue?
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 

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Jorkest
#22 Posted : 10/7/2008 12:43:10 AM

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69ron wrote:
Jorkest wrote:
SWIM got his bit today...gonna try something around 40-60 mg sublingualy...see what happens



so SWIM tried around 40mgs...it is extremely mild and pleasant...a wonderful glow...as 69ron said...it makes the the tongue go a bit numb and tingly...its soft buzzing kind of energy...that permeates the body...held spit in mouth for 20 minutes...and then swallowed...seems to have peaked around 20 minutes after swallowing...and then stuck around for about an hour or so...feels like it would be ever so nice with the spice...extremely calming...clear headed and can easily interact with the world...smooth...would probably be good for the beginning of a mushroom trip...and SWIM thinks that it would be a nice start to an LSD or LSA trip...make them last longer..but not too much...it feels like it would make spice last for about 30 minutes maybe..SWIM says that sHe hasnt tried it yet..but plans to soon...and SWIM can feel that slight LSD sensation to it...its got that kind of energy...the slightly energetic buzz throughout the body..but not close to being overwhelming or antsy...more smooth...thats why SWIM thinks it would be a nice combo with L...


Seems like you had a very similar experience from it.

In your opinion, was it anything like harmine, harmaline, caapi or rue?



it would seem to be a bit more gentle...SWIM...very noticeable though...tried smoking some weed with it during the tail end and was pleasantly surprised to find that a little went a LONG way...very nice
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#23 Posted : 10/7/2008 3:41:36 PM

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so SWIM could still feel the effects a few hours after dosing...has always been extremely sensitive to any drug...and they usually last forever...one tab of acid lasts for 24 hours...when people that he took it with start to fall asleep after 3...anyway..at the tail end of the THH...SWIM could still feel it...so they decided to see what would happen if they smoked some DMT...

so here is some history..and theorizing..for at least a month now..SWIM has been unable to remember anything from the otherside...or has been completely blocked from entering...at first SWIM thought that they had just been smoking way too much for too long..and the elves were like...yo bitch dont come back...even though they have asked SWIM to stay with them...he had to refuse a few times.....so anyway...SWIM was kinda disheartened that they couldnt get through...tried many many times...tried it on different drugs...strange combos...just to see if sHe could get in...nothing...only got some extreme deja vu....so then sHe started to hear rumors about other people not remembering anything that has happened...sHe talked to a good friend who has gone just as deep or deeper...and she said that they couldnt get in either...just got the shit beat out of them....so SWIM started to think that maybe it was a bit more broad..and something is going on over there...maybe the information SWIM would have gotten if sHe was able to get across could change the future in ways it wasnt suppose to...so with that said...SWIM will now tell the story about THH + DMT


SWIM got the great idea at the end of the THH...if SWIM had tried smoking the spice right during the peak it would have been so lovely..but at least sHe got part of the THH....sHe decided to have a sitter watch...just because it seems easier to bring anything back if you can just start talking to a friend and use their memories of what happened to help you rebuild the experience out here...SOOOO when SWIM first took their hit...the spice kicked in IMMEDIATELY...there was no waiting at all...extremely happy and surprised by this...SWIM has a technique for judging how the experience is progressing and if it will carry SWIM all the way through...first what SWIM does after taking a nice long deep toke off of SWIM's Vapor Genie(best smoking device SWIM has found...one hit breakthroughs...so nice) is first take a little bit of air on top of the hit to clear out throat...then sHe swallows...and what this does is kinda lock it into your lungs..it closes that little flap that keeps water and food from entering your lungs...but it also keeps the smoke in...by swallowing you are telling your lungs to close...next what sHe does is SMILE!! because smiling does something amazing to the trip...it acts as a magnifier of the energy...you can literally feel the power of the drug get stronger at least two fold...so swallow smile and close your eyes...this is what SWIM does...then held the hit in and starts counting to 30...what SWIM then experiences is this feeling like sHe doesnt need to breathe anymore...its like a space of no breathing..you could hold your hit in all day at this stage...its how SWIM knows the breakthrough is gonna happen...so what happened last night to SWIM is...sHe immediately got to the space of no breathing...happened like 5 seconds after swallowing...which was great! it usually takes SWIM till the count of 25 or 30 to get there...so the whole time SWIM was counting to 30 sHe was thinking thoughts of love and was asking permission to enter hyperspace..and asking to receive information that might help explain why sHe hasnt been able to get in...well SWIM broke through...but you know...can only remember then end of the experience...and some other things that are super hard to explain..but here SWIM goes..the reason SWIM wasnt remembering anything is because there was nothing to remember...because SWIM already knew it....so of course there couldnt be any memory...from this experience...or the others...because SWIM had already been completely updated...at that time...so the memories that sHe was lacking..or thought was lacking..were in fact already in their brain! but what that memory is...just happened to surface in SWIM's mind...its this beam of energy that is traveling through 'space' and is headed straight for our planet...and this energy is some sort of weird stuff..its almost like an event...but what happens is that whatever it touches...becomes part of it...so this stuff transforms matter into something else...not sure what...its like...what the spice experience feels like...being turned inside out and empty..or something..anyway this energy is coming..SWIM thinks...sHe is not really sure where this memory came from...but is assuming it came from the experience..so anyway...everything was explained to SWIM..and it all makes sense now..OO

its like this...this energy that is coming to transform all the matter of the planet is actually US...SWIM was standing next to the wood stove after the experience...and was thinking...wow...look how we use the death of a tree...we take dead trees...split them into tiny pieces and then put them into a stove...and add some magic(fire) which then breaks the wood into even smaller pieces...and then the tree flows out into the world...and becomes the world...now look what we are doing with the LHC(Large Hadron Collider) we are taking matter...and trying to split it up into even smaller pieces...so in a sense...humans are just machines...trying to make things smaller...we are just energy converters...the Sun builds complex organisms...just from being...we...take complex organisms..and break them back down...

so anyway...this is getting long...THH goes very well with vaporized DMT says SWIM...the experience only lasted about 5 minutes...based on the sitters perspective...but it was also the extremely tail end of the THH...but the THH allowed the blast off to happen in a fraction of the time...it was instant...but its nice to know that the nexus is still there..and that SWIM hasnt been blocked from entering...SUCCESS!!! we all win!
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#24 Posted : 10/7/2008 4:18:09 PM

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something SWIM forgot to add was that the sitters flashlight wouldnt turn all the way off...even after they took off the back cap...just by holding it it stayed on...and a light in the sitters house burnt out...so one light wouldnt turn off..and the other wouldnt turn on!! haha
it's a sound
 
acolon_5
#25 Posted : 10/7/2008 4:26:38 PM

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Excellent report.

I am quite interested in knowing how long one will say in hyperspace during the peak of THH. Can the voyage be extended to 20+ minutes like with harmine/harmaline?


Nonetheless, sounds like THH+DMT is a very pleasant ride and one that I highly look forward to.
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___________________________________________________________________________________________________
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I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
Jorkest
#26 Posted : 10/7/2008 4:45:46 PM

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it kinda feels like it would last for about 20-30 minutes yes...SWIM is not sure though...will have to try again:-D
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#27 Posted : 10/7/2008 5:00:18 PM

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SWIM is also interested in trying THH with bufotenine...maybe...eEK!
it's a sound
 
69ron
#28 Posted : 10/10/2008 1:16:23 AM

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SWIM got more tetrahydroharmine in the mail the other day.

SWIM tried 50 mg sublingually. That dose of tetrahydroharmine caused the typical tingling effects and relaxed state of mind, but at the peak SWIM HAD CLOSED EYE VISUALS for about 1 minute. They were DMT-like. I’m not sure if this was just coincidence or not. At 50 mg, the effect was quite heavy on SWIM. He experienced some unusual psychedelic effects where he felt like he was moving, even though he was laying on his bed. During the whole experience the mind remained very clear and focused.

The following day SWIM tried 150 mg orally. This was the first time he tried it orally. The citrate form of tetrahydroharmine is almost insoluble in water. It wouldn’t even completely dissolve in 1 cup of water! The taste was bitter and very slightly sour. It worked pretty quickly. About 10 minutes into it, the pleasant body tingling started. He also felt very slightly stimulated. The mind was clear, and there was mild euphoria. It seemed to peak after about 2 hours with some slightly “psychedelic” mental effects (but he’s not sure about that). The experience seemed to last maybe 4 hours. He’s not completely sure.

Out of both harmine and harmaline, tetrahydroharmine more closely resembles harmine. SWIM has never felt any “stoned” harmaline effects from THH yet. He has also not tried it in combination with anything else yet.

SWIM can feel it has MAOI effects. SWIM is very sensitive to MAOI effects, and absolutely notices it when THH is taken orally but not when taken sublingually.

It seems like the tetrahydroharmine dosage range information is coming together. 20 mg sublingually is enough to absolutely feel it. 50 mg sublingually and it starts really showing its character.

Orally, 150 mg is a light but very noticeable effect, maybe equivalent to about 25 mg sublingually. It was not as strong as 50 mg sublingually.

There seems to be some development of tolerance to its effects. When SWIM tried 50 mg sublingually and experienced closed eye visuals, about 4 hours later he tried it again and the effects were very weak.
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'Coatl
#29 Posted : 10/10/2008 5:55:57 AM

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If somebody had some of that THH... how long would it keep? Shelf life?

WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

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69ron
#30 Posted : 10/10/2008 10:35:26 PM

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Dagger wrote:
"69ron" wrote:
The taste was bitter and very slightly sour

How does the taste of THH compare to harmine and harmaline? Perhaps it would be possible to find caapi with a lot of THH just through tasting it?


It's not nearly as bad tasting as harmine or harmaline! The taste is somewhat similar but much less bitter. It also doesn't numb your mouth as much.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
69ron
#31 Posted : 10/10/2008 10:47:01 PM

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'Coatl wrote:
If somebody had some of that THH... how long would it keep? Shelf life?



That's a good question. Anyone know?

I suspect at least a year or two as a citrate salt. Citrates are usually pretty stable.

It's very poorly water soluble as a citrate. I think for that reason, you shouldn't use citric acid when making ayahuasca because less tetrahydroharmine is going to come out of the caapi if its in citrate form. I've heard that vinegar (acetic acid) or phosphoric acid should be better for tetrahydroharmine because tetrahydroharmine acetate and tetrahydroharmine phosphate are more water soluble. But I’m not sure. SWIM has never had tetrahydroharmine acetate or tetrahydroharmine phosphate to play around with, only tetrahydroharmine citrate.

Does anyone know more about these other salt forms of tetrahydroharmine?

Phosphoric acid is a stronger acid than citric acid, and so putting tetrahydroharmine citrate in some phosphoric acid would convert it to tetrahydroharmine phosphate which should be more water soluble.

I’ve heard that ayahuasca brewed using phosphoric acid is the best ayahuasca. Is this because more THH is getting extracted from the caapi as THH phosphate?
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
'Coatl
#32 Posted : 10/10/2008 10:51:45 PM

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"It's very poorly water soluble as a citrate. I think for that reason, you shouldn't use citric acid when making ayahuasca because less tetrahydroharmine is going to come out of the caapi if its in citrate form. I've heard that vinegar (acetic acid) or phosphoric acid should be better for tetrahydroharmine because tetrahydroharmine acetate and tetrahydroharmine phosphate are more water soluble. But I’m not sure. SWIM has never had tetrahydroharmine acetate or tetrahydroharmine phosphate to play around with, only tetrahydroharmine citrate."


Dudes thats very important for me, thank you so much for mentioning that!
WARNING: DO NOT INGEST ANY BOTANICAL WHICH YOU HAVE NOT FULLY RESEARCHED AND CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED!!!

I am Teotzlcoatl, older cousin of Quetzalcoatl. My most famous physical incarnation was Nezahualcoyotl, but I have taken many forms since the dawn of the cosmos. In this realm I manifest as multiple entities at a single time. I am many, I am numbered. I am few, but more than one. I am a multifaceted being, a winged serpent with many heads. We are Teotzlcoatl.

"We Are The One's We've Been Waiting For" - Hopi Proverb
 
extrememetal43
#33 Posted : 10/11/2008 2:18:57 AM
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Can i assume that taking it sublingually you need to take far less and and it lasts a much shorter amount of time than orally?

Any plans to mix up a cocktail of harmine, harmaline, and thh. Would the magic number be 200 mg total round abouts?
 
69ron
#34 Posted : 10/11/2008 11:09:32 AM

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extrememetal43 wrote:
Can i assume that taking it sublingually you need to take far less and and it lasts a much shorter amount of time than orally?

Any plans to mix up a cocktail of harmine, harmaline, and thh. Would the magic number be 200 mg total round abouts?


Yeah, sublingually the tetrahydroharmine dosage is about 25 mg and up, and orally about 150 mg and up. Sublingually it's a little different, smoother, and it doesn't have that MAOI feel. The trip is shorter, about 1 hour or so and peaks after about 20-30 minutes. Orally it peaks after about 2-3 hours and last about 4-5 hours.

SWIM tried making some into freebase tetrahydroharmine. The freebase form is not any different in effects, but it is almost completely tasteless. The same is true for harmine and harmaline.

SWIM still hasn't taken a really large dose yet. He's still testing the waters. He wants to be very familiar with it before he starts using large doses and mixing it with other compounds. A THH cocktail would be interesting. I think attempting to mix using the caapi ratios would be interesting. SWIM has not got nausea yet from any of the pure compounds.
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69ron
#35 Posted : 10/12/2008 8:53:35 AM

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Dagger wrote:
Quote:
The freebase form is not any different in effects, but it is almost completely tasteless. The same is true for harmine and harmaline.

I have heard reports that if you increase the pH of a caapi brew to 9, then lower it to 7, the brew will be virtually tasteless, or almost so. The reason to lower it is to remove the alkaline taste.


That's interesting. I know freebase harmine, harmaline, and THH, are all tasteless. But the salt forms are all bitter. However, THH citrate is the least bitter of the bunch. It also doesn't taste like harmine citrate or harmaline citrate. It’s flavor is very distinctive.
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rellik
#36 Posted : 10/14/2008 8:51:53 PM

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This thread explains so much for me! Using dagger's cappi tek w/ maya's white cappi produces such a zen-like pure bliss in comparison to harmaline or harmine. Im guessing the brew is a mix of all of the 3 alks but something felt different which i guess the THH accounts for.

edit: 100 posts! Smile
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69ron
#37 Posted : 10/16/2008 12:34:09 AM

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Last night SWIM tried tetrahydroharmine with bufotenine (5-HO-DMT). He was doing an experiment using various Yopo extracts at different pH values. The extract with the majority of the bufotenine was vaporized at 10 mg. As usually there were very strong visions and imaginary sounds experienced. After the 1 hour point, most of the effects were gone so he decided to try 20 mg of pure tetrahydroharmine citrate sublingually just to see what would happen. After about 10 minutes into it, once the effects of the tetrahydroharmine kicked in, he swallowed it. The bufotenine trip took on a more relaxed peaceful mood. The tetrahydroharmine seemed to smooth out the rough edges very nicely. After about 30 minutes into it, the visual effects of the bufotenine started coming back again. A second peak was experienced. This was about the same as bufotenine normally is, but with much more tingling and a more relaxed peaceful state of mind. It was very pleasant.

He’s going to try this combination again, but next time by first pre-dosing with the tetrahydroharmine.



He’s also tried THH with 5-MeO-DMT (actually just pure Virola resin). In this test he pre-dosed with the THH, and took the 5-MeO-DMT sublingually about 20 minutes afterwards. There was a definite increase in 5-MeO-DMT potency felt, plus a relaxed state of mind. It was a nice combination. The dose was small though, about 20 mg of THH citrate sublingually and 100 mg of Virola resin (about maybe just 1 mg of 5-MeO-DMT). It was enough for mild psychedelic effects and mild euphoria.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Jorkest
#38 Posted : 10/16/2008 5:31:31 AM

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sweet 69ron...SWIM might try his dirty bufotenine with some thh and see what happens...will do a predose with it to lengthen the experience..its good to hear it went smoothly...

i love this site
it's a sound
 
acolon_5
#39 Posted : 10/16/2008 5:00:32 PM

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My experiences with THH

1) 26mgs sublingually. Came on rather quick, long before what I had under my tongue was gone. A little euphoric at first, but gave way to minor dysphoria..weird. Slightly sedating, but not even close to harmaline. Fell asleep about 1.5 hours into it with some effects still lingering

2) 30mgs in the cheek (dipped) took about an hour to fully dissolve and be absorbed..again effects were felt very quickly (within 5 minutes). Feeling increased over the next hour to a very pleasant body tingle, no dysphoria, and some slight euphoria. Very nice. Effects lasted 2.5 hours. I want to note that I got a small chemical burn where a clump was up against my gum for an hour. It tastes quite sour (citrate salt, go figure), but did not really taste all that bad.

I'm not sure why my first experience was not as pleasant as my second.

I may be sensitive to THH, but I don't seem to be exceptionally sensitive to Caapi. Dunno.'

I will probably try again tonight with a 40mg dose.

I also have plans to predose with some THH before my next Ayahuasca (Caapi+Chaliponga)Journey. Hopefully that alters the experience in a positive way.
The Spice extends life
The Spice expands consciousness
The Spice is vital for space travel
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Never underestimate the power of STUFF!


I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
69ron
#40 Posted : 10/17/2008 4:43:28 AM

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acolon_5 wrote:
My experiences with THH

1) 26mgs sublingually. Came on rather quick, long before what I had under my tongue was gone. A little euphoric at first, but gave way to minor dysphoria..weird. Slightly sedating, but not even close to harmaline. Fell asleep about 1.5 hours into it with some effects still lingering


Yeah, definitely it’s slightly sedating. But nothing nearly as sedating as harmaline is.

Did you notice any mental effects?
acolon_5 wrote:
2) 30mgs in the cheek (dipped) took about an hour to fully dissolve and be absorbed..again effects were felt very quickly (within 5 minutes). Feeling increased over the next hour to a very pleasant body tingle, no dysphoria, and some slight euphoria. Very nice. Effects lasted 2.5 hours. I want to note that I got a small chemical burn where a clump was up against my gum for an hour. It tastes quite sour (citrate salt, go figure), but did not really taste all that bad.


What do you mean by “dipped”?

At what point did you feel the peak?

acolon_5 wrote:
I'm not sure why my first experience was not as pleasant as my second.

I may be sensitive to THH, but I don't seem to be exceptionally sensitive to Caapi. Dunno.'

I will probably try again tonight with a 40mg dose.

I also have plans to predose with some THH before my next Ayahuasca (Caapi+Chaliponga)Journey. Hopefully that alters the experience in a positive way.


How would you compare THH to harmaline or harmine?
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I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
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