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"Jungle DMT" is pulled by naptha. 100% serious! Options
 
q21q21
#1 Posted : 5/31/2010 7:55:41 PM

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When SWIM's test of smoking DMT-N-oxide produced tiny effects off of 50mg or more smoked and no familiarity at all in the trip he was wondering a bit if N-oxides were even in DMT at all. This was a back-of-the-mind wondering and he went along with the final pulls of his latest extraction.

He did 2 extractions to re-test each of his teks, one 200g batch using xylene (tek 1) and a second batch of 200g using naptha (tek 2)

While he was testing a bunch of things: solvent solubility/soaking time, vinegar salting process, acetate solubility in water, effects of evaporated tincture vs crystallized spice and a few others, this accidental discovery took him completely by surprise.

Neither of the batches were depleted yet, but the naptha he had been using had become more and more yellow after 5 pulls though it was still freezer precipitating nice white spice and was fully saturated.

A thread on salting brown-naptha made SWIM admit although he's done lots and lots of salting of freebase from solvents he's yet to try it on naptha. He looked at the yellow naptha and decided he'd try it.

The salting went exactly the same as with xylene or d-limonene, the agitation with the vinegar made the solvent cloudy with insoluble acetates, vinegar separated and warm water added and agitated until the naptha was clear.

As the vinegar-water was evaporated it went past the yellow that white DMT acetate are in water and started turing orangy-red. SWIM thought to himself "DMT-N-oxide?"

After dissolving the goo in a minimal amount to vinegar he next evaporated 10 drops and scraped it up and was surprised that not only was it dark red but it solidified immediately after scraping up. This was exactly like his "jungle only" tincture he'd used many times in the past.

The 10 drops only evaporated to 9mg so he evaporated 12 more and got 11mg to make the total about 20mg. Anxiously he loaded up his machine-bubbler and got ready.

Quote from his psychedelic journal:

Quote:

10:54
I am going to test 20mg of this stuff I salted out of the naptha. it is solid at about 50-60C and it looks and acts like jungle...

10:59
HAHA, that's jungle for sure.

the shorter duraton, the smoother visuals, the COMPLETELY different headspace, and the jungle OEVs and tracers, the higher body load leave no question in my mind that was jungle.

I mean the first tincture I did tests on was 80% jungle then 100% jungle, I know the trip. It was nice and being 20mg it wasn't too hard, I was really observing the effects on comedown since they are more consistent anyway.


Conclusion:
SWIM is now pretty sure that he was wrong in assuming that since DMT-N-oxide was yellow that it was the reason for the color and different effects in yellow DMT now he's thinking it is "jungle DMT" instead.

It seems jungle is not very soluble in naptha though. about 75ml of naptha contained only about 30mg of jungle though it had about 300mg of white spice precipitate out.

Also he noticed in a previous freezer precipitation that there was a layer of non-crystallized goo beneath his crystals that wouldn't dry, which was yellowish when scraped, but it would seem that it doesn't all precipitate.

Not sure exactly why with STB extractions so much more is pulled out, this is true with lime STB and lye STB.

Q21Q21's Tek: A comprehensive guide to extracting DMT
The 2 teks use non-toxic lime and vinegar and Tek 1: d-Limonene or Xylene or Tek 2: Naptha to produce very quick high yields with the greatest of ease.

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BananaForeskin
#2 Posted : 5/31/2010 8:00:19 PM

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Any time I do your A/B, I have done a fourth naptha pull that I let sit for 24 hours. The resulting naptha is definitively red, and yields something which I agree is definitely jungle spice. I always thought that my naptha must therefore must be impure, and have some other solvent in it, despite the fact that the label claims it to be pure naptha. Interesting to hear that you have confirmed that naptha CAN pull some jungle!
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stevowitz
#3 Posted : 5/31/2010 8:47:24 PM

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Could it be a combination of their being so much more plant solids in a STB & The aromatics in naptha?

I've got a vial full of this stuff also, from about 1lb worth of extractions so far.
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DoingKermit
#4 Posted : 6/1/2010 3:08:56 PM

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I didn't think it was possible, no matter what method used, to make jungle by using naphtha. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't xylene used to create jungle from it being a stronger solvent allowing it to pull different alkaloids. I thought naphtha was just too weak in that respect.
 
SnozzleBerry
#5 Posted : 6/1/2010 3:25:17 PM

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There's really no way to say authoritatively what the composition of this is without GC/MS readings, imo.
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Big Inhale
#6 Posted : 6/1/2010 3:29:39 PM

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DoingKermit wrote:
I didn't think it was possible, no matter what method used, to make jungle by using naphtha. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't xylene used to create jungle from it being a stronger solvent allowing it to pull different alkaloids. I thought naphtha was just too weak in that respect.
There is a thread somewhere that shows whats in the solvents that are used and it stated that some naptha brands contain toluene. So that is probably the reason for the jungle being pulled.
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endlessness
#7 Posted : 6/1/2010 3:40:10 PM

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yes big inhale, that is one possibility.

but what I dont understand is that people are still talking about colours as if colours has a direct relation to alkaloid content. I tried to cover a bit of the colour phalacy in this thread.

Jungle spice is the fraction pulled with more polar solvents such as xylene, toluene and limonene. It will contain plant oils, organic and fatty acids, DMT, DMT n-oxide if its present in the bark, and very small amounts of NMT and 2-methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline. You can read about it here

to say that one's naphtha-pulled red product is jungle is just speculation, as snozz said one can only know with a GC/MS or so. I would like to see any evidence that these secondary alkaloids are pulled aliphatic hydrocarbons. It can very well just be plant oils and similar giving a red tint so to call it jungle is just speculation. Unless as said, its a mix with aromat

Last but not least, I would like to see any blind test that jungle has a significant difference in terms of experience to pure DMT. Personally I think that a lot of it is self-suggestion, and the fact that the plant oils in jungle protect the dmt during vaporization, therefore being more effective and people thinking its stronger or different, but its more about vaporization effectiveness and not about alkaloid itself. I might be wrong but at least that seems to me the explanation in a lot of the cases...


btw, q21, I appreciate the explorer spirit you have and the tests you make! just be careful with reaching conclusions Pleased
 
burnt
#8 Posted : 6/1/2010 5:25:21 PM

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Different batches of naptha especially those produced by different suppliers will contain different ratios of aliphatic hydrocarbons and aromatic hydrocarbons. Such results would be expect in naptha containing higher aromatic hydrocarbons.

Quote:
Last but not least, I would like to see any blind test that jungle has a significant difference in terms of experience to pure DMT. Personally I think that a lot of it is self-suggestion, and the fact that the plant oils in jungle protect the dmt during vaporization, therefore being more effective and people thinking its stronger or different, but its more about vaporization effectiveness and not about alkaloid itself. I might be wrong but at least that seems to me the explanation in a lot of the cases...


SWIM notices no difference except more potent and slightly delayed onset. This probably has everything to do with altered pharmacokinetics. By that I mean less DMT is damaged during the vaporizing process because its protected from oxygen by the oily material. Also perhaps the beta carboline has some effect although SWIM doubts it because its much lower concentration then dmt. But again no way to tell unless all parts are purified and tested systematically.
 
endlessness
#9 Posted : 6/1/2010 5:31:07 PM

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Yeah thats definitely true. Ive seen naphtha which was basically only around the heptane/hexane range, and Ive seen others that had significant quantity of toluene and/or xylene. Check these crystals out, gotten with a naphtha that contained around 4% xylene:




 
acolon_5
#10 Posted : 6/1/2010 5:46:24 PM

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^ Wow, these look like they were evaped and not freeze precipiatated....was this because of the xylene? Was the Xylene just part of the Naphtha solvent makeup or was it added?


Very neat, however, with VM&P naphtha, i've NEVER gotten red xtals, and my last pull I have left in for over a month before, just very yellow naphtha is all I ever get out of it. I'm guessing it's the makeup of the Naphtha. Bestine will NOT pull out jungle, no matter how hard you try, it just can't dissolve it....so light Naphtha I can't see pulling much more than spice and a few impurities.
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I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
endlessness
#11 Posted : 6/1/2010 5:54:49 PM

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Yeah they were evapped, sorry for not specifying. Yeah definitely because of the xylene that they got red/orange, but still low enough amount that the crystals formed nicely. It was bought as-is, nothing added. On the label it only said naphtha, but MSDS for the product mentioned the xylene quantity. Was quite beautiful Smile

but now Im much more fond of limo and food-safe extractions Very happy
 
q21q21
#12 Posted : 6/1/2010 7:14:43 PM

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burnt wrote:
Different batches of naptha especially those produced by different suppliers will contain different ratios of aliphatic hydrocarbons and aromatic hydrocarbons. Such results would be expect in naptha containing higher aromatic hydrocarbons.

Quote:
Last but not least, I would like to see any blind test that jungle has a significant difference in terms of experience to pure DMT. Personally I think that a lot of it is self-suggestion, and the fact that the plant oils in jungle protect the dmt during vaporization, therefore being more effective and people thinking its stronger or different, but its more about vaporization effectiveness and not about alkaloid itself. I might be wrong but at least that seems to me the explanation in a lot of the cases...


SWIM notices no difference except more potent and slightly delayed onset. This probably has everything to do with altered pharmacokinetics. By that I mean less DMT is damaged during the vaporizing process because its protected from oxygen by the oily material. Also perhaps the beta carboline has some effect although SWIM doubts it because its much lower concentration then dmt. But again no way to tell unless all parts are purified and tested systematically.


Just a note:

SWIM's test was on only the "jungle" constituent of DMT, not a full-alkaloid mix (jimjam).

SWIM's probably couldn't distinguish the different between jimjam and white DMT 100% of the time in a blind test, though they are different in his opinion.
However jungle DMT vs white DMT is so different he is 100% sure a blind or double-blind test would prove that one can tell the difference.

Q21Q21's Tek: A comprehensive guide to extracting DMT
The 2 teks use non-toxic lime and vinegar and Tek 1: d-Limonene or Xylene or Tek 2: Naptha to produce very quick high yields with the greatest of ease.

I am almost never on this site anymore so I will likely not answer PMs

 
burnt
#13 Posted : 6/1/2010 7:25:22 PM

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^^SWIM can certainly tell the difference.

But it still seems just like dmt. Like I said it just seems that the pharmacokinetics change. But the main subjective effects are the same. Delayed onset different potency and a different taste are the differences SWIM notices. SWIM has also shared jungle spice with others and they all enjoyed the effects. Smoking was easier but everyone seemed to think it was just like dmt.

One simple example of the power of altered pharmacokinetics altering drug effects is cannabis. Eating cannabis can be very different from smoking. There is a metabolic reason for this. Altered pharmacokinetics can be very important in the overall effects of a drug.

SWIM has confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the main active component of jungle spice is mostly dmt even after trying to remove dmt with numerous hexane pulls. Its still there. There is no doubt of this anymore unless of course different varieties of mimosa have unique alkaloids but for some reason SWIM doubts that. SWIMs analyzed different batches but always from same supplier and the results were always the same.

With chromatography it would be possible to isolate the other minor alkaloids and further confirm their structure like this funny beta carbonline. But that's a lot of work.

See link endlessness posted.





 
DiMiTriX
#14 Posted : 11/28/2010 10:11:53 AM

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swim's naphta has 160°c b.p Rolling eyes Confused
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SHroomtroll
#15 Posted : 12/28/2010 9:48:39 AM

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I made a thread in the nursery about this aswell, i use 100% heptane and put my bottles in boiling water for a few mins resulting in the heptane turning red and producing very strong red crystals.
 
SnozzleBerry
#16 Posted : 12/28/2010 10:07:58 PM

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SHroomtroll wrote:
I made a thread in the nursery about this aswell, i use 100% heptane and put my bottles in boiling water for a few mins resulting in the heptane turning red and producing very strong red crystals.

again...without GC/MS results how can you say this? Sounds like you are simply heating your solution to the point where you are pulling fats and tannins and calling it jungle, which is not correct. It seems you are making claims based solely on color, which is completely unreliable and meaningless.
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endlessness
#17 Posted : 12/28/2010 10:47:59 PM

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SHroomtroll, maybe its droplets of mimosa so fine that dont settle (just do a search on "red naphtha" and you'll see how many people have this same thing).

When this sort of thing happens, I suggest re-salting the solvent with an acidic solution, base and pull again.
 
SHroomtroll
#18 Posted : 12/28/2010 11:00:14 PM

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Ok sorry for the confusing, i am doing some xylene pulls right now from the same bottle so after cleaning that i will make some blind tests for NY eve for me and some friends Smile
 
 
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