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Ibogaine hcl... Options
 
Bancopuma
#1 Posted : 1/20/2010 8:31:39 PM

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Hi y'all,

So, I have been in contact with a number of Ibogaine hcl labs, mostly based in central Africa, and am seeking the best price and a reliable supplier.

Ethnogarden.com in Canada charges a ridiculous $625 for 1 gram of Ibogaine hcl! However, with a little bit of asking around, it seems that this is a VERY expensive price for that quantity.

For anyone who would be interested in acquiring some Ibogaine hcl, it would be worth coming together as a collective and moving forward as one...this way we can mutually help each other by getting a cheaper deal on a bulk order.

I'm afraid this is restricted to UK citizens...Iboga/Ibogaine is legal here, but is highly illegal in many other countries. If it is legal in your country, by all means drop me a line...I would like to avoid breaking any laws however...I don't want to go to prison for being an international Ibogaine dealer!

One supplier is offering 2g of Ibogaine hcl for $390 (£240 including shipping...or £120 per gram...and states that this price will come down further the more grams are purchased in the same order). This supplier is willing to dsipatch to multiple addresses, as long as its to the same country. This is important, so keeping everything confidential, so y'all don't need to tell me your home addresses (but what is said between us, stays there...would delete any such info after use).

Another supplier is offering 2g for $340 (£208, or £104 per gram), including shipping, and 5g for $800 (£492, or £98 per gram!). I have contacted this supplier regarding dispatching to multiple addresses, and am waiting to hear back from them.

I think this is very reasonable price for the medicine that Ibogaine is, and I feel getting a few people involved on a bulk order will make this medicine financially acessible for those it hasn't ever been before...

Futhermore, both Ibogaine and Iboga are legal to posses in the UK;

Quoted from Erowid:

UK;
As of late 1998, the Home Office Drug Unit reported that Ibogaine is not specifically listed in the Controlled Substances List in the UK. The Medicines Control Agency (MCA) does not recognize Ibogaine as a drug, but does note that it is credited with having hallucinogenic properties. This apparently means that it is legal to buy or import for personal use, but to sell it, administer it to others, or make it available as a treament would likely be illegal without a prescription.

(This is dated now obviously, but haven't encountered anything to refute this).

I don't know whether this would be of interest to anyone here. Please reply to this thread or PM me if you think it would.

As y'all know Ibogaine is SERIOUS stuff, its not a recreational buzz, but a very powerful, confontational experience. The experience will require a weekend. If you want to giggle and get buzzed, get hold of some LSD instead. Ibogaine and Iboga are VERY different beasts to any other psychedelics out there...this applies to both their potential, and where they can take you...but also their safety profile. I have experienced Iboga twice, but not pure Ibogaine hcl.

People have DIED taking Ibogaine. Such fatalities are VERY rare, but they have happened...mostly from heroin addicts injecting while the Ibogaine is taking effect, and peope with heart abnormailties or conditions...

Thus,

- people with heart conditions or abnormalities should give Iboga/Ibogaine a WIDE birth.

- a 24 hour detox would be VERY wise. This includes caffeine and other stimulants on the day. Following the ayahuasca dieta would be recommended.

- It would be VERY wise to have someone on hand for the experience. You will be introverted during the peak of the experience and have little desire to talk, this is more of a safety issue, and they can help walk to the toilet etc.

- make sure you do plenty of reading, research and planning before hand so you know what you're getting into.

- during the experience you may feel pretty horrible at times, and you may think "well that Bancopuma is a right mentalist, when I can walk again I'm gonna give him a piece of my mind!" Bear with it...trust me on this...after a few days you'll be FLYING... Cool

PLEASE be careful though, Iboga and Ibogaine demand respect. I would hate anything bad to happen to any of you guys, but ultimately I think Iboga/Ibogaine have the potential for MUCH more good than harm, and this is why I have presented this for y'alls consideration.

Peace and blssings' Wink
 

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Phlux-
#2 Posted : 1/20/2010 10:40:54 PM

The Root

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is this not a lot more expensive than extracting it from iboga - or converting voacangine or something simmilar from voacanga spp or tabernamontana spp ?
antrocles wrote:
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...unlike the "blind leading the blind". we are more akin to a group of blind-from-birth people who have all simultaneously been given the gift of sight but have no words or mental processing capabilites to work with this new "gift".

IT IS ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE WILLING TO EXPOSE OURSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO ANNIHILATION THAT WE DISCOVER THAT PART OF OURSELVES THAT IS INDESTRUCTIBLE.


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Bancopuma
#3 Posted : 1/21/2010 5:03:30 PM

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Hmmm that depends really...there are a few variables involved with that assumption, so I'm not sure...but I don't think there would much difference at all.

Firstly I would be careful about using other plants like voacanga or tabernamontana. Some of these plants other alkaloids are nasty on the body at high doses (much harder than Iboga or Ibogaine anyway), so you wouldn't just need to convert the voacangine into Ibogaine, you might need to purify the Ibogaine from the other alkaloids. I'm sure all this is possible, but I haven't researched it.

A gram is a flood/initiation dose. Firstly you need to buy the Iboga. 25g from Maya costs around £80, likely £90 or more including shipping. And it must be potent, old, Iboga rootbark, or you'll largely be wasting your time. This must all be powdered if it isn't already, so you can extract it (a right kefuffle with Iboga). Lets assume that 25g of Iboga contains a gram of Ibogaine (depends on the quality of the Iboga). Then you need the extraction materials (won't be much), and to do the extraction (this is on my to do list, too busy right now, waiting for a friend and fellow journeyer to return from Morocco). Methanol is one the best solvents to use but is quite toxic stuff. I think a limonene tek might be suitable for extracting Iboga alkaloids however, but research is needed here.

Right now it looks like a gram of Ibogaine for around £100 ($162). Thus, I think there would be very little difference in price between the two routes. At least posessing one gram of 98% Ibogaine hcl allows you to know precisely what dose you are taking, and for people who are busy this route avoids the kerfuffle of extraction (I will be attempting a methanol extraction in the future).
 
Phlux-
#4 Posted : 1/24/2010 2:00:08 AM

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is the stuff that one would purchase extracted or synthetic ?
do you get synthetic ibogaine hcl ?
antrocles wrote:
...purity of intent....purity of execution....purity of experience...

...unlike the "blind leading the blind". we are more akin to a group of blind-from-birth people who have all simultaneously been given the gift of sight but have no words or mental processing capabilites to work with this new "gift".

IT IS ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE WILLING TO EXPOSE OURSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO ANNIHILATION THAT WE DISCOVER THAT PART OF OURSELVES THAT IS INDESTRUCTIBLE.


Quote:
‹Jorkest› the wall is impenetrable as far as i can tell


Quote:
‹xtechre› cheese is great


He who packs ur capsules - controls your destiny.

 
Jorkest
#5 Posted : 1/24/2010 4:42:50 AM

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i dont think that there is any purely synthetic ibogaine....from what i have read anyway....ibogaine seems like it would almost be impossible to synth...that doesnt mean you can extract a similar chemical and convert it..but i think the structure is so complex that you'd have a good hard time trying to get it to come out right

only from what i ahve read though..
it's a sound
 
Bancopuma
#6 Posted : 1/24/2010 2:21:33 PM

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Yeah I think synthesizing Ibogaine from scratch is possible, but it is both incredibly expensive, and incredibly complicated.

This Ibogaine is extracted from 10/11 year old Iboga rootbark, the plants grown in Gabon, and the Ibogaine is extracted in Cameroon, to produce 98% pure Ibogaine hcl.
 
GratefulDad
#7 Posted : 2/25/2010 8:13:27 PM

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I just posted a simple extraction (that can be taken to pure ibogaine HCl with recrystallizations or at least a very pure Total Active Alkaloid mix without recrystallizing), and panoramix (thanks for the measurements) has a good one as well.

I do know of a reliable place for iboga TA, bark, and I think HCl. www.ibogaworld.com is affiliated with the person who gave me my first treatment, and I can vouch for her honesty. I don't believe she would stand behind a company that is less than honorable, but haven't ordered from them, because I am in the US. I flew to Amsterdam to have my first ibogaine treatment, and I took the TA. I have only had one other ibogaine experience and it was with a lighter dose of the acetic acid extraction, which was not very pure at all.

The extraction I posted can be easily done with vinegar and ammonia, and some distilled water to rinse, and will make a nearly 40-50% pure total active freebase alkaloid mix, but it has the further purification in detail, as well. The freebase is a solid, and fairly stable, if kept away from heat, light, air, moisture. To take it to further purity, by using acetone to dissolve the freebase alkaloids, the extra 50% or so of insoluble plant material left from the initial extraction is filtered out, giving a 95%+ pure total alkaloid mix.

The ibogaine/ibogaline/ibogamine HCl will precipitate out when adding the proper amount of hydrochloric acid. Once this is done, one should have 98% pure TA, however, there will still be some other active alkaloids left in that acetone. The ibogaine HCl can be recrystallized in boiling ethanol to make it more pure and remove some of the ibogamine/ibogaline, however these other alkaloids are also as active and noted by some to be longer acting than even ibogaine HCl.

The acetone containing any other alkaloids that did not precipitate with HCl acid can be evaporated, or distilled if you wanted to ensure no waste, then the unstable oil alkaloid mix could be dissolved in distilled water. Ammonia is again added to precipitate out the freebase. This would then be filtered out, rinsed with distilled water, left to dry, and would be your residual alkaloids in freebase form.

These could be kept for some later experimenting, or could be added in equal portion to the TA, making a Total Active Alkaloid mix, and the freebases in the mix would be easily dissolved by the HCl in one's stomach. Anyways, those are just a few ideas, depending on how pure you want your extract, or if you want the full alkaloid profile from the plant, minus all that wood! Laughing

Also, from all the studying I have done and after talking extensively with others experienced with the TA versus the HCl, as well as my own experience with the TA, I would recommend treating the added alkaloids in the same manner as pure ibogaine HCl. For instance, if one wants to take 15-20 mgs/kg of ibogaine, I would suggest treating this purified TA the same as the pure ibogaine HCl, and would not suggest adding more, because as stated, these alkaloids are as powerful and even a bit longer lasting than ibogaine HCl alone.

Many people can argue semantics about ibogaine HCl versus a PTA extract, however these are anecdotal opinions. From a medical or purely scientific standpoint, the pure ibogaine HCl would be necessary for a proper western medical procedure, so they can know precisely the dose of the pure drug is given. Now many psychonauts out there will argue that stripping a plant of it's other alkaloids, removes some of it's "spirit" and/or added actions/psychoactivity. From talking to a chemist who specifically took the residual alkaloids, alone, he reported similar, but much longer acting and seemingly more powerful effects.

Now again, this is anecdotal information, from my talks with the man who helped me perfect that extraction, so take it as you will. Grain of salt and all that. My major point being, though, if you do take a purified total alkaloid extract, like described in the tek I posted, please do not think that since only 70-80% of it is actual ibogaine HCl, that you need to take another 20% to be sure to get enough ibogaine on board, as those other alkaloids do have a definitely powerful and synergistic effect. (end rant)

Turning voacangine into ibogaine is apparently a pretty simple process, economically feasible, and sustainable, however it requires that one separates the voacangine from the other alkaloids in the voacanga bark. Trying the conversion of voacangine to ibogaine without separating the other alkaloids doesn't work. This may not be too difficult with a proper lab set up and some experience, but for the average home hobby chemist (or even worse, a drug addicted person just wanting a way to take ibogaine), it's probably going to prove more difficult and involved than many will desire to undertake. It does seem that this will be the way to have a sustainable supply, as the voacanga trees grow much faster, are much more abundant, and apparently much easier to grow, so it's the future of sustainable ibogaine for the masses, but it's not easy enough for everyone to start jumping on the bandwagon, just yet.

It is also possible to synthesize ibogaine, but requires very expensive lab equipment and very difficult, expensive procedures, so is not economically feasible, for a sustainable supply of reasonably priced ibogaine.
 
acolon_5
#8 Posted : 2/26/2010 1:59:18 PM

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There was a paper that describes the conversion of a Voacanga africana alkaloid (voacangamine?) to Ibogaine.

I can't seem to find it, but it may be useful. Voacanga Africana is legal everywhere I believe (except Oz, everything illegal there).


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I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

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69ron
#9 Posted : 2/26/2010 8:37:32 PM

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If anyone can find that paper with the conversion info, please post it. I would love to see it!
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jamie
#10 Posted : 2/26/2010 8:44:36 PM

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wait..so voacangamine contains no ibogaine?..i always thoughtit did..never heard of voacangamine..

has anyone taken voacanga?..i have thought about it..but never tried it.
 
69ron
#11 Posted : 2/26/2010 8:51:25 PM

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Voacanga doesn't contain ibogaine, as far as I know (is that correct?), but contains similar alkaloids.

SWIM has some voacanga but never tried it. He read several reports of chest tension, extreme abdominal pain, etc., so he's not sure if he wants to try it.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
jamie
#12 Posted : 2/26/2010 8:55:26 PM

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im curious now as to the after effects of voacanga..like I wonder if you still have to have that waiting period inbetween the experience and working with other entheogens like you do with iboga?
 
69ron
#13 Posted : 2/26/2010 9:02:32 PM

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I wonder if voacanga can be made less toxic with some processing? SWIM has seeds sitting around for a few years now and doesn't want to try them because of the reports of toxic reactions to them.

Has anyone had any positive effects from these seeds?
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
Phlux-
#14 Posted : 2/26/2010 10:20:18 PM

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consumed up to 120 seeds of voacanga africana with no ill fx - slight visual fx - picked em myself so i know they were like less than 2 weeks off the tree.
antrocles wrote:
...purity of intent....purity of execution....purity of experience...

...unlike the "blind leading the blind". we are more akin to a group of blind-from-birth people who have all simultaneously been given the gift of sight but have no words or mental processing capabilites to work with this new "gift".

IT IS ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE WILLING TO EXPOSE OURSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO ANNIHILATION THAT WE DISCOVER THAT PART OF OURSELVES THAT IS INDESTRUCTIBLE.


Quote:
‹Jorkest› the wall is impenetrable as far as i can tell


Quote:
‹xtechre› cheese is great


He who packs ur capsules - controls your destiny.

 
jamie
#15 Posted : 2/26/2010 11:19:23 PM

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can you go intomore detail phlux?..was it only visual?..no benifical mental effects like introspection etc?..how long after taking it did you wait before you took other entheogens?
 
69ron
#16 Posted : 2/27/2010 1:32:43 AM

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Phlux-, I'm also interested in the details of the experience if you care to share them.
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I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
GratefulDad
#17 Posted : 2/27/2010 1:52:28 AM

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Moderator wrote:
It is not allowed to discuss synthesis discussions on the Nexus. The deleted post contained procedures that require some lab expertise and some difficult to procure chemicals. If it is something that kitchen chemists cannot perform SAFELY then it is not suitable for this forum.

Thank you


 
 
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