We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
The Acacia Confusa thread Options
#81 Posted : 8/19/2023 3:09:56 AM

Boundary condition

ModeratorChemical expert

Posts: 8617
Joined: 30-Aug-2008
Last visit: 18-Feb-2024
Location: square root of minus one
Here's them dirty pictures!

Hope they make sense...
downwardsfromzero attached the following image(s):
acacia indole base reaction.png (59kb) downloaded 86 time(s).

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
#82 Posted : 8/21/2023 3:14:53 AM
member for the trees

Acacia expert | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingSenior Member | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, Counselling

Posts: 4003
Joined: 28-Jun-2011
Last visit: 05-Feb-2024
^that's fascinating downwardsfromzero, thank you..it's really cool you have worked that out..kudos to your skills..invaluable

before i make a few more comments on alkaloids,
also wanted to belatedly thank kerelsk for the earlier contribution...
phyllodes are more likely to be seasonally variable, and some acacias in cultivation have taken 3 years to reach full alkaloid spectrum..i'm not sure how bonzai conditions may affect this, but also there are dwarf strains of confusa (see later on)
..i've spent most of my time spent studying Australian, and a few African, species (with an aim to publish) , so A. confusa is a plant i've admired more as a respectful holiday, and a nice one at that...i have looked into it a bit, as any acacia with known traditional use that i can..if it was one i grew i'd certainly be conducting more experiments

ok, going back to newly characterized indole alkaloids from A. confusa, that don't appear in acid/base NP extractions and potentially not in long heated 'ayahuasca' type preparations: - i’ve attached the structures of two more compounds found in the plant (4 and 9), which showed activity (either antinociceptive - pain blocking but not anaesthetic - or anti-inflammatory)
They are ‘bisindoles’ (alkaloids containing two indole nuclei)
if we look at their structures...there seems to be something a little familiar going on there, yeah..?

These most recent findings on A. Confusa highlight an aspect of ongoing plant phytochemical research - that the state of alkaloids in the plant as it lives, or in fresh material, can potentially be different to a boiled, or acidified preparation…

I’ve already mentioned Yuremamine (and while apparently the structure has been revised, it’s activity hasn’t been adequately studied). A great example of what i’m talking about would be, when we go beyond ordinary bisinoldes into truly complex indoles. For instance, Hodgkinsine, from Hodgkinsonia frutescens (Rubiaceae) , is composed of three distinct N-methyltryptamine units…interestingly Hodgkinsine, in alkaline solution is converted to a tri-indoline base..this apparently reacts with sodium borohydride in ethanol to make a tetrahydro derivative which then fragments to give dimethyltryptamine, and an indoxyl-indoline..Now, sodium borohydride is a lab catalyst, but certainly manipulation by heat and/or ph change can potentially break apart some of these bisindoles (and complex indoles) into smaller fragments… And, the complex indoles (i once called them ‘hyper-molecules’ ) can show CNS and other activity unto themselves, prior to being split into fragmentary constituents…

This really is at the cutting edge of plant alkaloid research, and I commend the authors of the recent A. confusa paper for their work

So, more research is clearly required regarding the CNS activity of the species..

As far as reported bio-assay experiments with A. confusa, and no additives, it’s simply inadequate…the original report (on p1) is encouraging, but without higher dosage follow-up..there’s a not adequate at all report on (the now not doing much) erowid, in which we have acidification, and no follow up at larger ammount…this report is naive to reach the conclusion it does…It also needs to be tried with no heat (or minimal heat) in the process..

Another factor affecting alkaloid content can be genetic variation/sub-type…this is not well known with A. confusa, and not well established whether it has definite sub-species..
A study in 1978 self-pollinated a single A. confusa tree, and found variation in the seedlings (including a ‘dwarf’ subtype) - [see Seedling Variation of Open-Pollinated Seeds from a Single Tree of Acacia confusa Merr. , Siao-Jong Li, Kew Bulletin, Vol. 32, No. 3 1978]
..this is indicative of polyploidy, which is common in acacias..

it’s very closely related to some species in Australia, who would be it's 'parents’ or 'cousins' …it’s worth considering, though, that even when two different acacia species have apparently similar alkaloid profiles, they can be quite different in ‘character’…
Though they retain something in common - there is no need to touch the roots of and thus harm the tree, in order to explore it’s teaching… indeed this may be one of it’s teachings..

A. confusa is a plant with a unique asian/pacific history, with it's own 'traditions' to teach us..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
A Confusa Compound 4.jpg (391kb) downloaded 74 time(s).
A Confusa Compound 9.jpg (503kb) downloaded 74 time(s).
#83 Posted : 10/3/2023 8:26:26 AM
DMT-Nexus member

Posts: 270
Joined: 15-Mar-2022
Last visit: 15-Feb-2024
Does anyone have much experience with a STB and Acacia confusa.
My initial thoughts are that Naptha might not be suitable since the NMT seems to be the predominant alkaloid and NMT isn't nearly as soluble in Naptha as DMT. The Wiki says that NMT is "probably" soluble in Xylene. Anyone know for sure?
Are A/B that much more efficient with confusa than STB? Wondering if the gooey, fatty nature of things makes the base breaking down the bark less efficient.
It seems desirable, the NMT.
Users browsing this forum

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.026 seconds.