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Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO] Options
 
starbob
#1481 Posted : 5/13/2023 9:32:20 PM

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Twilight Person wrote:

what was again the problem of COMPLETELY drying the ethyl acetate (with mgso4 or similar) prior to adding the citric acid?

Will it completely stop crystal formation or will they be just in other shape, or will they only sometimes precipitate/never/... ?


Endlessness summarized a few pages back some water seems necessary for best yields but I can't say I understand fully myself Very happy .

I have a different question about drying with reused neutralized EtAc; if I'm making CASEA with reused EtAc I don't really need to dry it to begin with right? Since the addtl water will assist making CASEA with anhydrous citric acid? Does the anhydrous citric acid effectively dry it assuming there isn't a ton of water in it and just for use with CASEA?
 

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Loveall
#1482 Posted : 5/13/2023 10:02:57 PM

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starbob wrote:
Twilight Person wrote:

what was again the problem of COMPLETELY drying the ethyl acetate (with mgso4 or similar) prior to adding the citric acid?

Will it completely stop crystal formation or will they be just in other shape, or will they only sometimes precipitate/never/... ?


Endlessness summarized a few pages back some water seems necessary for best yields but I can't say I understand fully myself Very happy .

I have a different question about drying with reused neutralized EtAc; if I'm making CASEA with reused EtAc I don't really need to dry it to begin with right? Since the addtl water will assist making CASEA with anhydrous citric acid? Does the anhydrous citric acid effectively dry it assuming there isn't a ton of water in it and just for use with CASEA?


Thar makes sense. I have never done CASEA, but there seems to be no reason to dry it. I would fridge rest and decant any water from the washed solvent, just to keep the % water the same everywhere. May be unnecessary and there may be no water from the fridge after a brine wash, IDK. Good check I think.
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
💚🌳💚DMT salt e-juice HIELO TEK💚🌳💚
💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEK💚🍃💚
 
Loveall
#1483 Posted : 5/13/2023 10:06:50 PM

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Twilight Person wrote:
Hello Nexians

what was again the problem of COMPLETELY drying the ethyl acetate (with mgso4 or similar) prior to adding the citric acid?

Will it completely stop crystal formation or will they be just in other shape, or will they only sometimes precipitate/never/... ?


The nice xtals that form have 1.5 molecules of water per molecule of mescaline citrate.

A litte bit of water helps the citric acid dissolve and react with mescaline FB and form the nice xtals. It may keep plant gunk in solution when acidified. A chemist did the usual lab chem dry and had some junk in the xtals that slowly formed.

We have done many tests, and for some reason the water content of fridge cold EA is perfect for the process.

The reasons above are best guesses. At the end of the day it just works experimentally. And we tried many combinations......
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
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💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEK💚🍃💚
 
Burnttoast22
#1484 Posted : 5/13/2023 11:31:11 PM

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Hi there Nexians.

I was chatting to Loveall on another thread and we got talking CIELO so I thought I better post whats going on with my 2nd attempt at using the TEK.

Anyway the basics: 134g of properly dried Bridgesii pulled with 1.4l EA.

I salted the jar with 16g of CA about 6 hours ago and promptly left it alone. The only agitation was the CA going in.

This is what it looks like as of 5 mins ago.

1x


2x


4x


Burnttoast22 attached the following image(s):
photo_2_2023-05-13_23-28-21.jpg (148kb) downloaded 318 time(s).
photo_1_2023-05-13_23-28-21.jpg (149kb) downloaded 317 time(s).
photo_3_2023-05-13_23-28-21.jpg (155kb) downloaded 317 time(s).
 
Loveall
#1485 Posted : 5/14/2023 12:55:38 AM

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Pretty Love

Hope the crystals keep ogrowing and you have a decent yield Very happy
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
💚🌳💚DMT salt e-juice HIELO TEK💚🌳💚
💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEK💚🍃💚
 
merkin
#1486 Posted : 5/14/2023 8:49:00 AM

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Some CIELO pron - inspiration and pics from one of my higher yields (Bridgesii 100g powder from full plant -> 3.5% m.citrate when all scraps and washes evapped and collected). Two videos of the citric acid addition phase attached as well.
 
Korrupt
#1487 Posted : 5/14/2023 1:10:02 PM

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My citric acid wont dissolve in clear, new EtAc, is it a normal thing? I got two brands of citric acid, but none of them dissolve in it, maybe just a little bit. I added 0,5 gram citric acid to 100 gram EtAc.

But if i add citric acid to the pulled, green EtAc, it will dissolve and form crystals, it looks like citric acid can dissolve in it.
After cristallization, i decanted it, got crystals.
I added some citric acid to the leftover brownish EtAc, and it dissolved it completely.

Why is it, that citric acid wont dissolve in clean EtAC, but dissolve in the pulled one?

everything will be okay in the end. if it’s not okay, it’s not the end.
 
Burnttoast22
#1488 Posted : 5/14/2023 1:14:33 PM

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Wow!
Burnttoast22 attached the following image(s):
cielo_2.jpg (840kb) downloaded 292 time(s).
 
Burnttoast22
#1489 Posted : 5/14/2023 1:21:54 PM

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Loveall wrote:
Pretty Love

Hope the crystals keep ogrowing and you have a decent yield Very happy


Thanks mate Smile

Heres what its looking like today.


Burnttoast22 attached the following image(s):
photo_2_2023-05-14_13-21-32.jpg (213kb) downloaded 284 time(s).
photo_1_2023-05-14_13-21-32.jpg (249kb) downloaded 283 time(s).
 
Burnttoast22
#1490 Posted : 5/14/2023 1:35:35 PM

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Korrupt wrote:
My citric acid wont dissolve in clear, new EtAc, is it a normal thing? I got two brands of citric acid, but none of them dissolve in it, maybe just a little bit. I added 0,5 gram citric acid to 100 gram EtAc.

But if i add citric acid to the pulled, green EtAc, it will dissolve and form crystals, it looks like citric acid can dissolve in it.
After cristallization, i decanted it, got crystals.
I added some citric acid to the leftover brownish EtAc, and it dissolved it completely.

Why is it, that citric acid wont dissolve in clean EtAC, but dissolve in the pulled one?



CA can take a while to dissolve completely in EA.

With the two runs Ive done with this tek; First run I used about 10-15g of powdered CA and it dissolved almost immediately but took a good couple of days and shaking to produce crystals.

2nd run. I left the CA course (added 16g) and it took a good 12 hours for it to dossolve completely but crystals did start forming within about 4 hours.

Some people have had luck with adding a small amount of water (3-5ml) to the saturated EA solution to aid dissolving of CA. I dont know anthing about this so cant really help with that aspect.
 
Korrupt
#1491 Posted : 5/14/2023 2:06:35 PM

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Burnttoast22 wrote:
Korrupt wrote:
My citric acid wont dissolve in clear, new EtAc, is it a normal thing? I got two brands of citric acid, but none of them dissolve in it, maybe just a little bit. I added 0,5 gram citric acid to 100 gram EtAc.

But if i add citric acid to the pulled, green EtAc, it will dissolve and form crystals, it looks like citric acid can dissolve in it.
After cristallization, i decanted it, got crystals.
I added some citric acid to the leftover brownish EtAc, and it dissolved it completely.

Why is it, that citric acid wont dissolve in clean EtAC, but dissolve in the pulled one?



CA can take a while to dissolve completely in EA.

With the two runs Ive done with this tek; First run I used about 10-15g of powdered CA and it dissolved almost immediately but took a good couple of days and shaking to produce crystals.

2nd run. I left the CA course (added 16g) and it took a good 12 hours for it to dossolve completely but crystals did start forming within about 4 hours.

Some people have had luck with adding a small amount of water (3-5ml) to the saturated EA solution to aid dissolving of CA. I dont know anthing about this so cant really help with that aspect.


But its strange, that in the pulled EtAc it dissolve within a minute, but in the clean EtAc, after a few hours, it looks like almost nothing dissolved. But it works anyway Smile
everything will be okay in the end. if it’s not okay, it’s not the end.
 
Burnttoast22
#1492 Posted : 5/14/2023 2:22:58 PM

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I imagine thats because the pulled EA has a slightly higher water content.
 
Loveall
#1493 Posted : 5/15/2023 3:58:22 PM

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Burnttoast22 wrote:
I imagine thats because the pulled EA has a slightly higher water content.


Yeah, it is probably the water content. Also, citric acid is reacting with mescaline free-base so that helps absorb the citric acid xtals.

Korrupt, we are going by published literature to quote the citric acid solubility in fresh EA. The literature doesn't specify if it was anhydrous citric or not.

However it doesn't matter. Throw any kind of citric acid to the TEK and it works. That little bit of water that is still in the EA seems to help things.

This is an exception to usual lab procedures (where full Chem dries are done). We can make an exception here, because this tek is very highly specialized for the plant and alkaloid to make it as simple as possible. A more general A/B process is more work.
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
💚🌳💚DMT salt e-juice HIELO TEK💚🌳💚
💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEK💚🍃💚
 
Burnttoast22
#1494 Posted : 5/15/2023 9:49:11 PM

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Not as much as I'd hoped for but the crystals are pretty.

I guess I need to find a couple more live cacti sellers as I thought I'd get a bit more than one strong dose per foot with Bridgesii.

The TEK was flawless.



Burnttoast22 attached the following image(s):
Yield.jpg (263kb) downloaded 250 time(s).
 
Korrupt
#1495 Posted : 5/16/2023 8:39:24 AM

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Loveall wrote:
Burnttoast22 wrote:
I imagine thats because the pulled EA has a slightly higher water content.


Yeah, it is probably the water content. Also, citric acid is reacting with mescaline free-base so that helps absorb the citric acid xtals.

Korrupt, we are going by published literature to quote the citric acid solubility in fresh EA. The literature doesn't specify if it was anhydrous citric or not.

However it doesn't matter. Throw any kind of citric acid to the TEK and it works. That little bit of water that is still in the EA seems to help things.

This is an exception to usual lab procedures (where full Chem dries are done). We can make an exception here, because this tek is very highly specialized for the plant and alkaloid to make it as simple as possible. A more general A/B process is more work.


Thanks.
Its an easy way to test my clones and hybrids. It makes selection and testing easier. Im happy, that this method is available Smile
everything will be okay in the end. if it’s not okay, it’s not the end.
 
Madhattress
#1496 Posted : 5/17/2023 3:52:07 PM

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Some Xtal pics from latest extraction. 2 more days to go! Gotta give love to the Cielo Tek ❤️


Madhattress attached the following image(s):
20230517_164929.jpg (3,495kb) downloaded 185 time(s).
20230517_150601.jpg (3,099kb) downloaded 186 time(s).
20230516_220526.jpg (3,175kb) downloaded 186 time(s).
20230517_165337.jpg (1,232kb) downloaded 186 time(s).
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.” - Terence McKenna
 
starbob
#1497 Posted : 5/18/2023 2:48:45 AM

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If also doing a reuse brine washing, is it possible to cut out decanting or separating between the sodium carbonate and sodium chloride washes?

Like instead of this:
- Wash used EA with 10% sodium carbonate solution
- Decant/separate
- Wash again with 200ml brine, to a clear solvent
- Decant/separate, and maybe another fridge rest and decant/separate

Just do this?
- Wash used EA with 10% sodium carbonate solution
- Add sodium chloride in excess & stir/shake until clear
- Decant/separate, and maybe another fridge rest and decant/separate
 
Loveall
#1498 Posted : 5/18/2023 3:34:14 AM

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starbob wrote:
If also doing a reuse brine washing, is it possible to cut out decanting or separating between the sodium carbonate and sodium chloride washes?

Like instead of this:
- Wash used EA with 10% sodium carbonate solution
- Decant/separate
- Wash again with 200ml brine, to a clear solvent
- Decant/separate, and maybe another fridge rest and decant/separate

Just do this?
- Wash used EA with 10% sodium carbonate solution
- Add sodium chloride in excess & stir/shake until clear
- Decant/separate, and maybe another fridge rest and decant/separate


Give it a shot and see what happens. I tried a few combos and the one at the top was the best I found, but there could be better ways for sure.
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
💚🌳💚DMT salt e-juice HIELO TEK💚🌳💚
💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEK💚🍃💚
 
Dasein
#1499 Posted : 5/24/2023 5:47:52 PM

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I don't know if somebody has asked this before, but what other solvents could possibly work instead of ethyl acetate? I already have acetone, IPA, Heptane, Toluene, MEK and DCM.

Would it be possible to dry the paste until almost all the water is gone, and then extract with acetone? citric acid could then be used to salt out the same way as with ethyl acetate.

What about extracting with toluene and salting with benzoic acid?
این جهان با تو خوش است و آن جهان با تو خوش است
این جهان بی‌من مباش و آن جهان بی‌من مرو

ای عیان بی‌من مدان و ای زبان بی‌من مخوان
ای نظر بی‌من مبین و ای روان بی‌من مرو
 
Loveall
#1500 Posted : 5/24/2023 11:08:47 PM

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Dasein wrote:
I don't know if somebody has asked this before, but what other solvents could possibly work instead of ethyl acetate? I already have acetone, IPA, Heptane, Toluene, MEK and DCM.


Tried acetone and MEK, they didn't work for me.

Quote:
Would it be possible to dry the paste until almost all the water is gone, and then extract with acetone? citric acid could then be used to salt out the same way as with ethyl acetate.


Mescaline freebase does not like to be dry. Somehow it resists being pulled when dry in many solvents. Can't explain why, but that's what seems to happen experimentally.

Quote:

What about extracting with toluene and salting with benzoic acid?

That is called CITLO. Limonene salted with benzoic should also work (CILLO). We have a general thread for salting by dissolving acids in the solvent in that link.
💚🌵💚 Mescaline CIELO TEK 💚🌵💚
💚🌳💚DMT salt e-juice HIELO TEK💚🌳💚
💚🍃💚 Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEK💚🍃💚
 
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