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Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO] Options
 
Loveall
#1441 Posted : 4/26/2023 3:47:54 PM

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Toshido wrote:
Shame on me. I thunk when I should of thought.

I'm starting to see xtal growth now, but the xtals are small. Better to just use the granules next time and leave well alone.


What you did is fine, should be no issues just slightly different xtalization behavior. You can use two coffee filters stacked to catch the product in this situation. A single filter still works to catch most of it but may let a small fraction of small needles pass through.
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merkin
#1442 Posted : 4/26/2023 3:51:13 PM

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Toshido wrote:
I'm starting to see xtal growth now, but the xtals are small. Better to just use the granules next time and leave well alone.


Powdered citric is good imo, not a problem at all. I do that too. Maybe just the speed you adding it into the jar - I sprinkle it through fingers but honestly I dont get too finnicky about it. Essentially, the less you disturb the liquid the more likely you will get nice crystal growth if that's what you're after.
 
Toshido
#1443 Posted : 4/26/2023 3:58:59 PM

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merkin wrote:

Powdered citric is good imo, not a problem at all. I do that too. Maybe just the speed you adding it into the jar - I sprinkle it through fingers but honestly I dont get too finnicky about it. Essentially, the less you disturb the liquid the more likely you will get nice crystal growth if that's what you're after.


Ok, thanks merkin and Loveall, I'm sure I'm just being classically impatient and nervous as 1) I'm a perfectionist and 2) I only had enough cacti for 1 run. If I'm starting to see something, I'm sure I'll see more.

I just have it sitting high up on a shelf where I won't be disturbing it for a few days.

Will be sure to double filter.
🌳👨‍🔬🌳 - My A/B Hot Plate TEK - 🌳👨‍🔬🌳
🍜🍜🍜 - Don't Heat Your Naphtha, Heat Your Soup! - 🍜🍜🍜
✴✴✴ - White Spice vs Yellow Spice - 🌟🌟🌟
"You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness." - Terence McKenna
🙌 "Dang, that's really impressive for a first extraction. Those xtals are nicely resolved." - Benzyme 🙌

 
Madhattress
#1444 Posted : 4/27/2023 7:36:15 PM

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Toshido wrote:
merkin wrote:

Powdered citric is good imo, not a problem at all. I do that too. Maybe just the speed you adding it into the jar - I sprinkle it through fingers but honestly I dont get too finnicky about it. Essentially, the less you disturb the liquid the more likely you will get nice crystal growth if that's what you're after.


Ok, thanks merkin and Loveall, I'm sure I'm just being classically impatient and nervous as 1) I'm a perfectionist and 2) I only had enough cacti for 1 run. If I'm starting to see something, I'm sure I'll see more.

I just have it sitting high up on a shelf where I won't be disturbing it for a few days.

Will be sure to double filter.



Awww, i hope you get a good yield! The biggest factor that i think you are facing is how much mescaline your cactus contains. Good luck, keen to hear the results🌵
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.” - Terence McKenna
 
Toshido
#1445 Posted : 4/27/2023 8:14:51 PM

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Yeah, might be some weak cacti. Been 3 days of resting on that shelf, took a look today. There's certainly something going on in there, but nothing as exciting as what I've seen posted here. * Sad face *

Difficult to snap photos but here we go.

Jar 1 at eye level and then from the underside, using a head lamp to shine a light.





Jar 2 that was decanted into a beaker.




🌳👨‍🔬🌳 - My A/B Hot Plate TEK - 🌳👨‍🔬🌳
🍜🍜🍜 - Don't Heat Your Naphtha, Heat Your Soup! - 🍜🍜🍜
✴✴✴ - White Spice vs Yellow Spice - 🌟🌟🌟
"You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness." - Terence McKenna
🙌 "Dang, that's really impressive for a first extraction. Those xtals are nicely resolved." - Benzyme 🙌

 
Madhattress
#1446 Posted : 4/27/2023 8:24:18 PM

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Toshido wrote:
Yeah, might be some weak cacti. Been 3 days of resting on that shelf, took a look today. There's certainly something going on in there, but nothing as exciting as what I've seen posted here. * Sad face *

Difficult to snap photos but here we go.

Jar 1 at eye level and then from the underside, using a head lamp to shine a light.





Jar 2 that was decanted into a beaker.








Awww, Yeah, thats the only unfortunate thing is that cacti can vary so greatly in potency.

But atleast it looks like you will get something out and not nothing at all...Those crystals look denser/heavier than the fluffy needle ones, so maybe it weighs more than the eye can see. I think you should atleast get enough for a dose.
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.” - Terence McKenna
 
Toshido
#1447 Posted : 4/27/2023 8:37:12 PM

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Collecting that may be difficult. At this point my steps are to "swirl the EA to knock crystals loose" which in my case are tiny white blips. Then to strain through 2 coffee filters to catch said blips, and wash with fresh EA to remove color, then let dry.

I guess at this point, should I let them rest in the jar for a cpl more days? Or maybe throw some CASEA in there to see if anything else happpens?

The powdered CA was so sticky to the sides of my plastic measuring cup that I don't think I put a whole 7.5g in there, it was probably more like 5g that dislodged and fell in there.

I know there isn't any water in there, as I used a 50mL pipette to ensure that no water was transferred.
🌳👨‍🔬🌳 - My A/B Hot Plate TEK - 🌳👨‍🔬🌳
🍜🍜🍜 - Don't Heat Your Naphtha, Heat Your Soup! - 🍜🍜🍜
✴✴✴ - White Spice vs Yellow Spice - 🌟🌟🌟
"You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness." - Terence McKenna
🙌 "Dang, that's really impressive for a first extraction. Those xtals are nicely resolved." - Benzyme 🙌

 
Madhattress
#1448 Posted : 4/27/2023 8:45:13 PM

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Toshido wrote:
Collecting that may be difficult. At this point my steps are to "swirl the EA to knock crystals loose" which in my case are tiny white blips. Then to strain through 2 coffee filters to catch said blips, and wash with fresh EA to remove color, then let dry.

I guess at this point, should I let them rest in the jar for a cpl more days? Or maybe throw some CASEA in there to see if anything else happpens?

The powdered CA was so sticky to the sides of my plastic measuring cup that I don't think I put a whole 7.5g in there, it was probably more like 5g that dislodged and fell in there.

I know there isn't any water in there, as I used a 50mL pipette to ensure that no water was transferred.



There definitely was no water in there because you would not have any crystal formations at all if that were the case i think....

I always stick to 5g of citric acid as the recipe calls for. I think after 3 days the chances are low for there to be anything left, but i could be wrong...


As for the crystals you to have, you can try scrape them loose with a knife/spoon if they are stuck. Otherwise you can always pour out what you have into filters and add some water to disolve and recrystalize the remaining xtals via evaporation.
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.” - Terence McKenna
 
_Trip_
#1449 Posted : 4/27/2023 10:27:13 PM

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Yh maybe easier to decant the EA (wash with fresh EA if you desire) dry the jar, then collect crystals with a tiny amount of hot water and pour into a dish for evaporation. Lower yields can be a pain to filter IMO.

I don't think you've done anything wrong likely you have a typical low yeild pc pach. I've had one that was .1% yield before. And a cuzco that was .09%.
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.

 
Toshido
#1450 Posted : 4/28/2023 3:29:50 AM

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Bummer... I guess next step is to grow some of my own. One dose should be fine though as I'm going solo camping soon, so at least I'll get to try it out.

starbob wrote:
I thought I'd mention this same ratio worked perfectly for me with Milliard's food grade anhydrous CA. ~0.5mL distilled water per gram of anhydrous citric acid.


Can someone clarify this? Don't you want water OUT of the jar for crystallization to occur? Why are you adding water to the CASEA? If it's for helping the CA to dissolve in the EA, is the added water absorbed by the EA? Or do you decant the CASEA from the small amount of water you added?
🌳👨‍🔬🌳 - My A/B Hot Plate TEK - 🌳👨‍🔬🌳
🍜🍜🍜 - Don't Heat Your Naphtha, Heat Your Soup! - 🍜🍜🍜
✴✴✴ - White Spice vs Yellow Spice - 🌟🌟🌟
"You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness." - Terence McKenna
🙌 "Dang, that's really impressive for a first extraction. Those xtals are nicely resolved." - Benzyme 🙌

 
downwardsfromzero
#1451 Posted : 4/28/2023 9:28:02 AM

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Toshido wrote:
Bummer... I guess next step is to grow some of my own. One dose should be fine though as I'm going solo camping soon, so at least I'll get to try it out.

starbob wrote:
I thought I'd mention this same ratio worked perfectly for me with Milliard's food grade anhydrous CA. ~0.5mL distilled water per gram of anhydrous citric acid.


Can someone clarify this? Don't you want water OUT of the jar for crystallization to occur? Why are you adding water to the CASEA? If it's for helping the CA to dissolve in the EA, is the added water absorbed by the EA? Or do you decant the CASEA from the small amount of water you added?

The added water helps the anhydrous CA to dissolve. With CA monohydrate, adding water is unnecessary because the crystals themselves contain sufficient water to assist dissolution (along with the small amount of water dissolved in the EA). The equivalent volume can be worked out using molecular weight calculations:

1g CA == ~1/192 mol; 0.5mL water == ~1/36 mol

- so it's just under 5 times the exact molar amount required, but the excess still amounts to nothing significant when added to the usual volumes of EA used in the process. You could add 0.107mL per gram of CA if you wanted to be more exact.

Also, because the CASEA is being produced separately from the cactus extract, the fresh EA is likely to come practically anhydrous out of the container so the 0.5ml/g mirrors the amount of water in the post-extraction EA, which would also help CA monohydrate to dissolve when added direct to the EA cactus extract solution.


PS - definitely grow cactus!




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
merkin
#1452 Posted : 4/28/2023 5:51:19 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:

PS - definitely grow cactus!


And preferably Bridgesii! Smile

No worries Toshido, Ive been there too with more than one 0.1% from Pachs. Feels so disappointing after all the work and anticipation. Fortunately for me most of my cactus garden has been growing for around 15 years. Never too late to start tho (and powder can be obtained online while you wait...)
 
Toshido
#1453 Posted : 4/28/2023 7:09:56 PM

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Thank you for the well detailed clarification on that DF0.

Thank you Merkin for the positive attitude. I'll start my cactus growing journey here soon. I've seen some threads of others starting their own garden, so I will start there.

In the mean time, I just have one last question before I decant these 2 jars and collect what is hopefully a single dose.

I hear everyone on the whole "Decant, let EA evaporate, add hot water to jar, then evap to collect". I'm guessing 10mL of hot water should be ok? Then I will decant into my crystallization dish I use for DMT extraction so that it's easier to collect upon evaporation. What method is preferable to evaporate the water? Do you just let it sit out? Do you add EA to soak it up? Can I use a hot plate to evaporate the water?

I suppose a last ditch effort to have an experience if I can only scrape up 400mg and there's still 200mg that's hard to collect I could just use hot water and make a little vial I can just take with me camping to drink. Otherwise, the dose is going in a gel capsule after I weigh. There are super tiny crystals in both jars and on the coffee filter I used to strain, will let you know what it weighs.

Thank you.

Edit: DF0 recommended a Bain-Marie (fancy terminology for boiling off mescaline concentrated water in a water bath).

Will update.
🌳👨‍🔬🌳 - My A/B Hot Plate TEK - 🌳👨‍🔬🌳
🍜🍜🍜 - Don't Heat Your Naphtha, Heat Your Soup! - 🍜🍜🍜
✴✴✴ - White Spice vs Yellow Spice - 🌟🌟🌟
"You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness." - Terence McKenna
🙌 "Dang, that's really impressive for a first extraction. Those xtals are nicely resolved." - Benzyme 🙌

 
Toshido
#1454 Posted : 4/29/2023 3:37:06 AM

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Meh, turned into a wax. I collected some powder, some wax, and some citrate concentrated in a little bit of water. Disappointed but it happened. Will try again next month. Gotta get back to the DMT dissertation.
🌳👨‍🔬🌳 - My A/B Hot Plate TEK - 🌳👨‍🔬🌳
🍜🍜🍜 - Don't Heat Your Naphtha, Heat Your Soup! - 🍜🍜🍜
✴✴✴ - White Spice vs Yellow Spice - 🌟🌟🌟
"You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness." - Terence McKenna
🙌 "Dang, that's really impressive for a first extraction. Those xtals are nicely resolved." - Benzyme 🙌

 
Twilight Person
#1455 Posted : 4/29/2023 3:02:25 PM

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What was again the downside of using regular Citric Acid?

Solubility is worse so it takes longer to dissolve?

But then still the same amount will dissolve over time? Or is then the danger of going above saturation and citric acid powder will stay non-dissolved and mix with Alkaloid Crystals?

So is that the only problem or is also crystal formation alterated / worse?

I'm just asking as when buying that stuff from consumer market instead of chemical supply I might not trust 1000% if it really is the hydrate when they write it on the label.
~ O ~
 
merkin
#1456 Posted : 4/29/2023 3:53:51 PM

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Twilight Person wrote:
I'm just asking as when buying that stuff from consumer market instead of chemical supply I might not trust 1000% if it really is the hydrate when they write it on the label.


Supermarket citric acid worked perfectly for me.
 
Twilight Person
#1457 Posted : 4/29/2023 3:58:06 PM

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So Supermarket Citric Acid must be the regular version nearly sure. I never found the hydrate anywhere in either supermarket or drug stores, so it seems a little more expensive to create and thus probably end-consumer sellers will only have that one as it normally should not matter?

So that's already good to know that it works just as fine. But still my question is:

What WOULD be the potential downside of using the regular one? As the TEK definetly recommends the hydrate first?







Next question:

How to powder the cactus? Will a regular small coffee grinder work?

Like this?

https://c.shld.net/rpx/i...mage/spin_prod_827019412

Or will I need something hardcore like this?

https://secure.img2.wfrc...urr-Grinder-GX500050.jpg



Also the TEK tells to 1. use a food processor and 2. use a coffee grinder.

I have no clue what a food processor is. Is it possible to also go directly from dried cactus into the coffee grinder to create fine dust?
~ O ~
 
Toshido
#1458 Posted : 4/29/2023 5:41:57 PM

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Twilight Person wrote:
Downside of using the regular one? As the TEK definitely recommends the hydrate first?


Citric Acid Monohydrate dissolves more easily in EA(Ethyl Acetate). You can still use Anhydrous Citric Acid, it just takes longer to dissolve. Or, you can do what others have tried. Adding the Anhydrous Citric Acid to some fresh Ethyl Acetate (Which has been coined CASEA(Citric Acid Saturated Ethyl Acetate)) and letting it dissolve, and THEN adding that to your jar of EA and cactus.






Twilight Person wrote:
How to powder the cactus? Will a regular small coffee grinder work?

TEK tells to 1. use a food processor and 2. use a coffee grinder.

I have no clue what a food processor is. Is it possible to also go directly from dried cactus into the coffee grinder to create fine dust?


A food processor is something that's basically in between a traditional blender and a coffee grinder. When people chop up bark or cactus they usually start with a blender and THEN go to the coffee grinder. Yes, you could go straight to the coffee grinder, but it will take longer as it can be difficult to add large chunks to a smaller blending machine.
🌳👨‍🔬🌳 - My A/B Hot Plate TEK - 🌳👨‍🔬🌳
🍜🍜🍜 - Don't Heat Your Naphtha, Heat Your Soup! - 🍜🍜🍜
✴✴✴ - White Spice vs Yellow Spice - 🌟🌟🌟
"You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness." - Terence McKenna
🙌 "Dang, that's really impressive for a first extraction. Those xtals are nicely resolved." - Benzyme 🙌

 
Twilight Person
#1459 Posted : 4/29/2023 7:18:08 PM

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Ok thanks. But that also means if I use just regular Citric Acid the crystals will be even more crazy as they form even slower? Or is that not a thing which would make a difference in any way?

Cheers




Also:

The TEK says to dry all the cacti slices at a food dessicator at 46 °C. But how long?

Obviously: As long as it needs to be dried ...

But when do I know it is dry?

Do you take it out and repeatedly measure the weight and then stop when there is zero weight decrease? I guess not.

In any case: what is a common time for drying? Maybe that will help me more as a rough estimate AKA how long do you dry your slices?


Cheers
~ O ~
 
shroombee
#1460 Posted : 4/29/2023 7:35:28 PM

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Twilight Person wrote:
How to powder the cactus?

I use a Vitamix. I imagine a regular blender would also work fine.
 
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