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Panaeolus Cyans vs Psilocybe Cubensis Options
 
dithyramb
#61 Posted : 5/8/2022 6:38:12 PM

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Does anybody have the experience to compare pan cyans with liberty caps?
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 

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dithyramb
#62 Posted : 5/11/2022 11:01:39 AM

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Thank you. I want to get an understanding of the differences between the species, and semilanceata is the species I am familiar with after cubensis. How are pan cyan trips different than semilanceata? Semilanceata seems to have am extra empathogenic/heart opening quality. Is this present in pans?
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
dithyramb
#63 Posted : 5/12/2022 11:13:46 AM

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Thank you! And how does mexicana fit into the spectrum?
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
Cosmic Giggle
#64 Posted : 7/21/2022 5:55:13 PM

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Just wanted to chime in: growing pans is a lot easier than it used to be. I have no affiliation with these people, but after reading and re-reading grow logs/teks from JakeOnCid, Asura, Mary Fairchild, and Blue Helix on shroomery I was able to grow dense trays of pans on my first try. I had only grown cubes once before (very different method, the only knowledge that carried over to growing pans was learning to work with agar and learning how to use a pressure cooker).
I will say again though: I did a lot of reading. I did about 6 months of prep work/reading. During that time I just kept trying to get as many monocultures as I could on different agar plates so I had multiple cultures to work with when it came time to start growing. (I never got around to figuring out which had the best potency because I don’t eat them often)

I mostly followed the JOC pan tek, while implementing a few things here and there from the other members I mentioned above.
While all the gear is a bit of an investment, id say it’s well worth it for the yields you get. Having to use manure is a major drawback for me though.

One said they actually prefer cubes because they feel more “spiritual” or something along those lines. Pans are generally an easier ride, and therefore generally used for more hedonistic (for lack of a better word) trips where you’re less likely to have to “face your fears”, which for some is not ideal.
That doesn’t mean you can eat a bunch of pans and expect to have nothing but good times. Still have to respect them or you’ll end up in the deep end, same as any other high dose psilocybin experience (according to more advanced travelers than myself).

I’ve never eaten more than a gram of pan cyans and I’ve never faced anything “scary” like I did with my last few cube trips many years ago. So I guess I would kind of agree with the cubes being more “spiritual” as they clearly want to teach me a lesson. I already know the answer, but don’t want to/haven’t been able to face it. Pans, on the other hand, let me put in my headphones and they play a beautiful movie for me while I listen to music until they eventually wear off.

And FWIW my best and most profound mushroom trips were my first few cube trips. But that was back when life didn’t have so many problems.
 
dithyramb
#65 Posted : 7/24/2022 8:02:34 PM

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Sounds like pan cyans are the Acacia confusa of mushrooms in a sort of way. Very interesting and good to know. They are both from east Asia. The AC spirit is like an elephant, and Pan cyans grow on elephant dung ...
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
Bancopuma
#66 Posted : 1/5/2023 11:51:09 PM

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I spied this on Reddit and it tickled me, thought some Nexians might appreciate it too Very happy
Bancopuma attached the following image(s):
Pan cyans vs Cubes.jpg (86kb) downloaded 173 time(s).
 
dithyramb
#67 Posted : 1/6/2023 7:30:15 PM

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Quote:
One said they actually prefer cubes because they feel more “spiritual” or something along those lines. Pans are generally an easier ride, and therefore generally used for more hedonistic (for lack of a better word) trips where you’re less likely to have to “face your fears”, which for some is not ideal.
That doesn’t mean you can eat a bunch of pans and expect to have nothing but good times. Still have to respect them or you’ll end up in the deep end, same as any other high dose psilocybin experience (according to more advanced travelers than myself).

I’ve never eaten more than a gram of pan cyans and I’ve never faced anything “scary” like I did with my last few cube trips many years ago. So I guess I would kind of agree with the cubes being more “spiritual” as they clearly want to teach me a lesson. I already know the answer, but don’t want to/haven’t been able to face it. Pans, on the other hand, let me put in my headphones and they play a beautiful movie for me while I listen to music until they eventually wear off.


I would expect Psilocybe natalensis to also be more "spiritual" than pan cyanescens as in this context. Would love for experienced people to comment.
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
Bancopuma
#68 Posted : 1/6/2023 11:27:30 PM

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Cosmic Giggle wrote:
One said they actually prefer cubes because they feel more “spiritual” or something along those lines. Pans are generally an easier ride, and therefore generally used for more hedonistic (for lack of a better word) trips where you’re less likely to have to “face your fears”, which for some is not ideal.
That doesn’t mean you can eat a bunch of pans and expect to have nothing but good times. Still have to respect them or you’ll end up in the deep end, same as any other high dose psilocybin experience (according to more advanced travelers than myself).

I’ve never eaten more than a gram of pan cyans and I’ve never faced anything “scary” like I did with my last few cube trips many years ago. So I guess I would kind of agree with the cubes being more “spiritual” as they clearly want to teach me a lesson. I already know the answer, but don’t want to/haven’t been able to face it. Pans, on the other hand, let me put in my headphones and they play a beautiful movie for me while I listen to music until they eventually wear off.

And FWIW my best and most profound mushroom trips were my first few cube trips. But that was back when life didn’t have so many problems.


Interesting take here Cosmic Giggle, thanks for sharing - this maps onto my own experience pretty darn well. I still definitely have a special place in my heart for Cubensis mushrooms and they were my first foray into psychedelic space which was definitely a life trajectory-altering thing for me, and I'm really grateful for having experienced them. This being said, when I first sampled Pan cyans (at least the Hawaiian strain which is what all my experiences have been with) they were such a breath of fresh air, given how smooth and clean they were on my system, they consistently put me in a positive and uplifting headspace, and I enjoyed how colourful and detailed the visuals were for me in comparison to Cubensis. So I do really cherish Pan cyans, but all of my experiences with them have been what I would consider pretty "easy" mushroom experiences...I didn't have to do much work (despite their power). In some sense they felt perhaps a tad "hollow" compared to some of my Cubensis experiences (hard to put into words what I mean here). Quite a few people report there being a bit of a dark or edgy edge to Cubensis, and I do actually think this quality might lend itself quite well to facing challenging material and doing inner work. I'm curious now to become acquainted with Natalensis, being a closely related species to Cubensis, but what sounds like a smoother ride on the latter. While they seem a more forgiving or easier ride for many compared to Cubensis, I have read numerous accounts of people doing or being nudged to do inner work on them in some instances.
 
dithyramb
#69 Posted : 1/7/2023 6:45:48 AM

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The clarity/refinedness of the experience and the depth of the experience are two separate parameters . Natalensis appears to be providing a high standard in both, judging from the descriptions. (cubensis: -/+, Pan cyan: +/-, natalensis: +/+)

My association of Pan cyan with Acacia confusa was because Acacia confusa provides a very "sweet," enjoyable, in some ways "high definition" but shallow, lacking in depth experience.
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
Fridge
#70 Posted : 1/7/2023 9:45:47 AM

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I just asked myself whether a psychedelic experience has to be a "difficult ride" to qualify as "spiritual".
Because I don't think so. Yes, the smoother ride that Natalensis can provide will be welcomed by the ones who use mushrooms purely for hedonistic purposes/enjoyment, but if you go into the experience with the intention to do inner work Natalensis will provide you with what you need, in my experience.
From time to time I don't feel like doing inner work and just want to enjoy the experience. In a way Natalensis allows you to choose where the journey goes. But not always.

Especially in higher doses Natalensis can get very challenging too. A friend took 7 gram dry, met an "angry entity" and hasn't tripped for a year afterwards. Before he was heavily into psychedelics.
I found my golden spot is around 2 gram, which is not too strong nor too light.

My experience with pans was quite long ago. Soon I will grow some to refresh my memory.


...no need to worry...
 
Bancopuma
#71 Posted : 1/7/2023 3:40:53 PM

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Hey Fridge,

I agree, in that I don't think a psychedelic experience has to be a difficult ride to qualify as spiritual. Certainly difficult or challenging and spiritual experiences can go together sometimes (at times, the former may precede the latter for example). When I was pondering about Cubensis and the possibility they may have a tendency to have a darker or more challenging edge, I was more reflecting on the potential for therapeutic inner work in particular (which does not necessarily overlap with spiritual experiences). I agree with you though that the intention underpinning usage is likely a far more important determinant of outcomes. And it's true, sometimes one might want to use these things for doing inner work, other times more for enjoyment or connecting with nature etc. I have no doubts that Natalensis can be challenging, particularly at higher dosages. Most people who have sampled Natalensis state them to be in the range of 1.5-2 times as potent as your average Cubensis, so 7g of dry Natalensis is truly a stonking dose...I would be surprised if the experience wasn't challenging in some way at that level! Shocked
 
Bancopuma
#72 Posted : 1/15/2023 11:43:20 AM

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Sharing a few collected accounts from people who have sampled Pan cyans (including a fair few Nexian accounts), comparing them to Cubensis in case it's of interest:

"Panaeolus cyanescens are the true Magic Mushroom. I'm never growing or consuming Cubensis again."

"They are the cleanest, smoothest, most peaceful mushroom vibe of all the species I have tried. Panaeolus cyanescens and tropicalis rank #1 in my book."

"They are far and above the cleanest clearest and most potent mushrooms I have ever encountered, tread lightly with these guys."

"SWIM has only consumed the Copelandia cyans (Hawaiian), and reputes them to be the best mushroom experience by far. Very clean trip, zero body load, clear head space."

"They are truly mystical, much better experience than the dealer Cubenis I bought in Hawaii. Those felt like a synthetic drug. Still enjoyable but Pan cyans comforted my soul."

"They [Pan cyans] are so much cleaner! The trip is shorter but more intense. The visuals are just incredible. You feel very light compared to cubensis and the headspace is more manageable (at least at lower doses).

"Pan cyans are a MUCH smoother trip IMHO. I don't notice much of the dark anxious come up that I typically go through with cubes. Cubes are an old ally, but once I finally procured pan cyan spores and grew them it was a game changer."

"The trip feels VERY different in my opinion. To me, Pan Cyans are one of the absolute cleanest experiences you will ever have on a psychedelic mushroom, there are other good exotics, don't get me wrong, but the pan cyan is probably the best exotic, or in the top 5."

"Most intense, euphoric, neon colorful trip that introduced me to pan cyan, most unlike any cubes I have ever had. Way preferred these over cubes. So deeply euphoric and extremely visual with saturated tropical neon colors. From then on I was hooked."

"I didn't really expect how good the differences were from Cube to [Pan cyan] estero. The visuals weren't comparable at all and the euphoria was so wonderful. My 2g trip was literally the best substance experience of my life next to marriage and kids. 10 hours of pure bliss."

"First experience last night with Estero pan cyan. Truly mystical, amazing, and the most beautiful and gentle psychedelic experience to date. Truly a gift."

"I strongly agree with starting with one-half gram dry. It was a much better experience than any cubes I've tried even at higher doses."

"Copelandia [Panaeolus] cyanescens are far stronger than cubes and have a distinctly different feel."

"Cubes gave me mild nausea and made me feel 'shakey'. Not at all so with Pan cyans."

"lol who needs cubes when you can have Cyanescens! I’ve blessed a few people with them and they are now believers lol."

"IMO they [Pan cyans] are a lot better than cubes. No body noise and very intense and clear. More like LSD just a lot shorter. I don't cultivate many actives on a regular basis anymore, but out off all I have experienced to date, these are my favorite."

"The highs real clean. It reminds me of the Felix the cat acid from the 80s. Just smooth. With little body noise and extreme visuals. A calm lucidity that is like a slice of heaven."

"I haven't tripped on Panaeolus Cyanescens in years! You're totally right that the experience blows cubes outta the water. I'll always love cubensis, but Panaeolus Cyanescens Hawaii and Mexicana are by far my favorite species to explore."

"Pan Cyan (and Trops) are very much worth the effort!!! I have never eaten any Cubes that were as VISUAL as these are. Not to mention a little goes a LONG ways. Gram and a half of these little fellers will blister your brain!"

"I love Pan cyans. I used to live in Hawaii, and in the raining season, me and my friend used to pick them. I loved the trip. It was soooo gentle and peaceful, and "loving". They loved me Laughing Never a bad time on pan cyans. They are truly mystical, much better experience than the dealer cubenis i bought in Hawaii. Those felt like a synethic drug. Still enjoyable but pan cyans comforted my soul."

"Less cartoony than cubes. More crisp neon geometric patterns. The trip also feels less tiring."

"Ok, so it's given that [Pan cyan] it's much stronger than cubensis. But I've noticed that there is a difference in the high. Why is that?"

"In my humble opinion, I think 1 gram of wet Panaeolus is even better than 1 gram of dry Cubensis, making them 10X more potent [?!?], in addition to the more positive and smooth experience, easier consumption due to amount and taste, and much less nausea."

"My first experience [with Pan cyans] was wonderful! I definitely noticed a big difference in potency and the mood of the trip. I still remember how clean, visual and surreal everything felt. I felt absolutely no body noise or anxiety. They felt very natural to experience, nothing felt wrong if that makes sense."

"I've eaten pan cyans around the 1g dose - to me it was like 3g of cubies in strength with a different quality to it."

"Pan cyans for me have consistently yielded a really beautiful and blissful bemushroomed state, I find them to reliably induce a really clean, clear, crystalline experience, and much more colorful than Cubensis with really detailed shimmering visuals and deep euphoria."

"I have done a lot of LSD and mushrooms only a few times. The only good mushroom trip I had was with some Pan Cyan's from the wild. They seemed to be a lot more like LSD... Very visual with a lot of self control/confidence and little anxiety or paranoia."

"Pans are no joke. Anyone who says LSD is more powerful than mushrooms has never done pans."

"I also noticed that cyans have a very smooth comedown and longer duration. What could be the reason for this?"

"They are electric! Very different feelings. The ceiling is way higher.. like I can't eat too many cubes but I could definitely eat too many pans. The comedown is clean too. Visuals are way more pronounced and color saturation is at a max. Really wonderful fruits."

"There's something about Pan Cyan that induces something special that no cube could ever bring, it isn't that it's a clean feeling either - it's something that must deal with happiness in general - so whether it stimulates serotonin production or a mixture of neurochemicals for the best experience, I have had consistently positive experiences with each trip both physiologically and psychologically. I wonder if it has to do with other alkaloids or absence of alkaloids vs cubensis."

"It is my personal view that Hawaiian Copelandia cyanescens offers the entheogen user a more enjoyable experience than the more easily cultivated Psilocybe cubensis. In fact I would place it in the premier cru of psychedelic plants, alongside the indigenous Liberty Cap (Psilocybe semilanceata) and the various DMT containing plants."
 
Toshido
#73 Posted : 1/15/2023 4:41:25 PM

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MagicTrip wrote:
iamalien wrote:
would you say they are less anxiety inducing than others? more euphoric even? Thanks

I would say they are almost without any anxiety.
Panaeolus are quite vigorous and clear.
And they are way more euphoric.


Whoa. Now I'm interested.

I have 100+ cube trips under my belt and it's all I've tried. As I get older, (and more generally anxious due to life's responsibilities and keeping up with bills) I've found the last few trips to be more on the uncomfortable side and have almost given up on them. The body load and anxiety is difficult for me, I'm more interested in visuals. But cyans and natalensis have peaked my interest for sure. I may take up cultivation again even if it's just one tub.

I must point out, that even though theShroomery is the place to be, I absolutely love that the Nexus has a section dedicated to this.
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Bancopuma
#74 Posted : 1/16/2023 12:19:05 PM

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widderic wrote:
MagicTrip wrote:
iamalien wrote:
would you say they are less anxiety inducing than others? more euphoric even? Thanks

I would say they are almost without any anxiety.
Panaeolus are quite vigorous and clear.
And they are way more euphoric.


Whoa. Now I'm interested.

I have 100+ cube trips under my belt and it's all I've tried. As I get older, (and more generally anxious due to life's responsibilities and keeping up with bills) I've found the last few trips to be more on the uncomfortable side and have almost given up on them. The body load and anxiety is difficult for me, I'm more interested in visuals. But cyans and natalensis have peaked my interest for sure. I may take up cultivation again even if it's just one tub.

I must point out, that even though theShroomery is the place to be, I absolutely love that the Nexus has a section dedicated to this.


Hey widderic,

Natalensis and Pan cyans definitely sound like they might be worth sampling, and I'd be interested hearing about how you get on. Natalensis has definitely rekindled my interest in growing, and I also want to delve back into growing Pan cyan, as these are top-tier mushrooms in my experience. I've stumbled across a particular cultivar of Pan cyan 'Estero' which sounds interesting, it's meant to be particularly potent, and a particularly tenacious culture to grow, and I'd really like to give it a whirl when I can. And yes I agree it is nice to have a myco domain as part of the forum where fun-gis and fun-gals can hang out Thumbs up
 
doubledog
#75 Posted : 1/17/2023 5:11:16 PM

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Imo Cubensis should be used only in case when no other mushrooms are available, otherwise they have little to offer. They are mostly for beginners, I do not know any advanced user who prefers them.

It seems that some of us are going to try not only Natalensis, but also Pan cyans 😉. I always thought that growing it is very difficult, but we will see.

I have once tried Pan cyans, but only in the mix with other species (it was quite crazy combination of P. Cubensis, P. Strictipes, P. Arcana and Pan cyans), so could not distinguish their character or style.
 
dithyramb
#76 Posted : 1/17/2023 6:54:29 PM

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In traditional usage of Mexico, cubensis is looked at exactly how doubledog says - for use only in the case where there are no other alternatives available. "They get the job done" but they are not preferred.

How lucky are we as Eurasia where the most abundant wild psilocybin mushroom (semilanceata) is on par with the most preferred species in Mexico - P. mexicana, and described as the favorite or one of the favorites of all who tried them.
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
dragonrider
#77 Posted : 1/17/2023 9:54:11 PM

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This is just a wild guess, but i think that it's either bacteria or mycotoxins that are responsible for the qualitative difference between cubensis and the species that are more potent by weight/volume.

If raw or dried mushrooms contain a certain amount bacteria per gram of material, then the less of material infested with those bacteria you need to ingest to achieve certain effects, the less likely you are to experience potential side effects from the presence of these bacteria. Like possibly bacterial toxins, present within the material itself, or produced inside your body after ingestion.

We usually don't heat psychedelic mushrooms to temperatures high enough to kill most of the bacteria present within them, like we would do with portobello's or other edible mushrooms, because heating likely would destroy the psilocin as well.

And even portobellos, grown for eating, often contain substances when uncooked, that are considered slightly toxic, like agaritine, hydrazine or formaldehyde.

I find it typical that those shrooms that produce the nicest, cleanest and smoothest experiences, are also the ones with the highest contents of psilocin and psilocybin.

To me that suggests that there is something in the not psycho active materials that mushrooms consist of, that somehow has a negative impact.


 
dithyramb
#78 Posted : 1/18/2023 10:29:44 AM

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Heating does not make mushrooms inactive. Psilocybin is known to be stable at boiling temperature for sure, psilocin could also be. I have used boiled liberty cap tea before. So you can go ahead and try boiling cubensis to put your theory to test.

I personally suspect serotonin to be a gentleness/smoothness/lucidness factor. It seems to be present in Panaeolus species.
The consciousness of plants is a constant source of information for medicine, alimentation, and art, and an example of the intelligence and creative imagination of nature. Much of my education I owe to the intelligence of these great teachers. Thus I consider myself to be the “representative” of plants, and for this reason I assert that if they cut down the trees and burn what’s left of the rainforests, it is the same as burning a whole library of books without ever having read them.

~ Pablo Amaringo
 
dragonrider
#79 Posted : 1/18/2023 11:43:28 AM

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But isn't serotonin also present in cubensis?
 
Bancopuma
#80 Posted : 1/18/2023 4:34:18 PM

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Serotonin doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier, so it is doubtful that it is modulating the psilocybin experience. However there might be serotonin precursor compounds in the mushroom (possibly varying between species) that could perhaps exert an influence. But I hear you dragonrider, I do think there could be other secondary compounds in Cubensis that modulate the experience to some degree, and make it a little muddier and foggier in some way, and less lucid and clean...whatever it is might be what washes out a lot of the colour of the Cubensis experience (at least for me - profound difference in technicolour effects between Cubensis and Pan cyan and Azurescens), and give it its possibly slightly darker/edgier vibe, and maybe contribute to body load. Whatever this might be, it seems to be completely absent from the Pan cyans (and Mexicana) I have experienced, which in comparison just feel incredibly clean and smooth on the body with far more vivid technicolour visuals.

Quote:
It seems that some of us are going to try not only Natalensis, but also Pan cyans 😉. I always thought that growing it is very difficult, but we will see.


Hey doubledog, growing Pan cyans is definitely a little more fiddly than growing Natalensis/Cubensis, with tweaks to substrate and fruiting conditions required, but the basic process is the same, and growing them certainly shouldn't be considered as very difficult.
 
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