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Test thh that you do not convert yourself Options
 
ava69
#21 Posted : 5/1/2022 2:14:40 PM

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Note: I only do this around 3 times in a lifetime, so I have enough THH to last a lifetime, as I tend to use 300mg at least x 3 times a month. It's a lot of hard work extracting the rue. The harmaline to THH part is easy.

P.S. You don't need a vacuum filtration setup to do the zinc method. 2 people here have said the cotton ball stuffed in funnel does indeed work to remove any lingering (less than 0.5%) zinc dust, and said their resulting THH worked fine.

Merkin said:
Quote:
I have the exact same mag stirrer, and I was very embarrassed about its condition after a few 'accidents' - nice to see one in even worse nick, lol.
Same here Merkin, my stir plates over the decade look like they have been thru a nuclear blast and survived.

Shadedself said:
Quote:
Ive adquired some ascorbic acid and intend to try that method soon.

Would vitamin C still reduce harmaline in its acetate form?
I usually add some vinegar in the boiling steps and Im not sure if that would interfere in this case.

I also wonder if it would be more efficient to perform the PCing with ascorbic acid as its own separate step once you have a cleanish extract.
Shadedself, you should use harmaline in it's freebase form. I actually performed the method advocated by Professor8 long time ago, even used an actual reflux condenser cooled with ice to re-cycle the boiling water, and pure ascorbic acid. My results were that the solution of harmaline did not turn from green to blue when a bit swabbed with a vinegar soaked que tip, rubbed on a paper plate, and held under blacklight, indicating 100% conversion did not take place, and I was using pure harmaline only. But I only ran the reflux for 2 hours total, it may just be that a much longer time is necessary for the complete conversion to take place with vitamin C reflux...say a 12 hour reflux? I never repeated the experiment as the zinc method worked in 1.5 hour to convert any qty of harmaline to THH very fast. I wish downwardsfromzero good luck with this, and believe that it is possible, just needs a much longer time, vitamin C is not a powerful reducing agent like zinc in vinegar, but it may still function as a mild reducing agent.

With zinc in vinegar, you can actually see many teeny tiny hydrogen bubbles rising to the top of the solution like champagne as it reduces harmaline to tetrahydroharmine, and a full on color change from dark green to the ending transparent golden-like color on the slow spinning stir mantel after 1.5 hour, indicating the process is done, turn stir mantel off, let it sit 1 hour so all the zinc can fall to bottom, dunk a cue tip in the vinegar and rub it on a paper plate, hold paper plate under blacklight, the smear will be light blue glow, indicating 100% complete conversion to the divine and spiritual tetrahydroharmine, as valuable as mescaline, can't do without her, diamondlike shimmering in her beauty.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Jacubey
#22 Posted : 5/1/2022 2:54:14 PM
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merkin wrote:
I have the exact same mag stirrer, and I was very embarrassed about its condition after a few 'accidents' - nice to see one in even worse nick, lol.


LOL I was a bit embarrassed at first, but I figure its probably somewhat common. This is my first mag stirrer, and early on I underestimated the bubbliness of things. Cleaning up freshly basified mimosa mush is not fun.


I'm looking forward to seeing more conversions and more people picking up thh. I still have yet to try my product, lead test, and do side-by-side UV comparisons. Hopefully I can do that soon, but my family is in the process of moving. Might take a break for a week or two.
 
Jacubey
#23 Posted : 5/9/2022 3:09:19 AM
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Img 1: 1mg/ml thh freebase/vinegar
Img 2: 1mg/ml harmaline freebase/vinegar

My thh is a very white powder, so I assume it either has high purity or perhaps I messed up. Anyway, assuming it IS harmaline, the glow has a slight blue tinge, and is somewhat more dim than the harmaline glow. I'm not sure how well it picks up on camera. Provided only one sample, I'd not be able to guess if it was thh or harmaline. Maybe my UV lamp is imparting some blue which makes the harmaline look similar but I'm not sure. The primary indicator would seem to be brightness, not color.

In other words: to distinguish them, I would need to see them side by side, and I'd always guess the dimmer one is thh. The color seems like a poor indicator to me. Maybe my latest batch of harmaline (not used in the Thh conversion) is contaminated with harmine. Or maybe the UV light just makes everything look kinda bluish.
Jacubey attached the following image(s):
20220508_210416.jpg (1,633kb) downloaded 170 time(s).
20220508_210419.jpg (1,901kb) downloaded 170 time(s).
 
merkin
#24 Posted : 5/9/2022 10:22:06 AM

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Hey Jacubey, have you ever tried using some Marquis reagent? It is one of the commonly available tests for substances such as MDMA etc. When used with harmine, harmaline and THH you get three different colours and THH is very different to the other two. While this is a simple presumptive test (indicates presence not anything else like amount or purity) its a lot more obvious than the colours you are grappling with? Definitely worth a try and easy to make really (95% sulphuric acid and 5% formaldehyde) if you have the ingredients.

My THH is usually whitish mostly but I've also gotten some pink too!

In pic on left is Harmine top left, Harmala alkaloid mix before manske Mid Right, Harmaline Bottom left. On right is THH from zinc reduction with Harmaline source. No question imho this confirms a change from Harmaline. Slight bit of yellow there too is probably residual Harmine/DHH? All freebase form. Note re: reagent colors from nexus somewhere...

*Edit - sorry the mixed harmalas were pre-manske, not post.
merkin attached the following image(s):
marquis harmala.jpg (293kb) downloaded 159 time(s).
Harmalas Marquis Reagent.png (84kb) downloaded 158 time(s).
 
Jacubey
#25 Posted : 5/9/2022 1:05:53 PM
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Pink is probably oxidized harmine contamination, or something similar. Harmine fb seems to produce a reddish/pink powder after some time.

I have these reagents. I have no idea why I didn't think to use them. Lmfao
 
Jacubey
#26 Posted : 5/12/2022 1:42:31 AM
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Haven't gotten around to reagent testing yet. Still in the midst of moving.

I did find something "new" though. Something I was doing with the Thh conversions turned blue. I don't remember leaving this in the fridge, but I do know it was something from a thh conversion process. I found it while moving. I'm fairly certain this was the glass with the reddish precipitates.

I can not over state how deep of a blue this is. I am tempted to try to use it as dye or something, but of course I have no idea what it is or how dangerous it is.
Jacubey attached the following image(s):
20220511_190622.jpg (1,126kb) downloaded 128 time(s).
20220511_190627.jpg (1,971kb) downloaded 128 time(s).
 
ShadedSelf
#27 Posted : 5/13/2022 1:35:16 PM

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Tried the PCing + Ascorbic Acid, used 15g of acid, about a liter of water and a bit over a gram of mansked freebase rue extract, PCed for about two hours, which might not be enough.

The solution glows a bit paler and a bit more towards indigo under UV light compared to the shiny cyan that rue usually is for me, I assume from indigo(harmine) + green(harmaline) giving cyan.

Its also a bit more hazy, like light has a bit of trouble going through for some reason.
Not sure if this would "hide" harmalines green, or if the solution is genuinely less green now.

First picture is before, second is after.

Ive basified the solution and waiting for alkaloids to settle, it hasnt gone clear though, it is now a brownish red.

I will compare their glow to rue extract from the same batch once the alkaloids are cleaned, but for now it does seem like some sort of conversion might be going on.
ShadedSelf attached the following image(s):
IMG_20220513_102651[2].jpg (3,865kb) downloaded 115 time(s).
IMG_20220513_133148[2].jpg (4,060kb) downloaded 115 time(s).
 
downwardsfromzero
#28 Posted : 5/15/2022 9:38:26 PM

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ShadedSelf wrote:
Tried the PCing + Ascorbic Acid, used 15g of acid, about a liter of water and a bit over a gram of mansked freebase rue extract, PCed for about two hours, which might not be enough.

The solution glows a bit paler and a bit more towards indigo under UV light compared to the shiny cyan that rue usually is for me, I assume from indigo(harmine) + green(harmaline) giving cyan.

Its also a bit more hazy, like light has a bit of trouble going through for some reason.
Not sure if this would "hide" harmalines green, or if the solution is genuinely less green now.

First picture is before, second is after.

Ive basified the solution and waiting for alkaloids to settle, it hasnt gone clear though, it is now a brownish red.

I will compare their glow to rue extract from the same batch once the alkaloids are cleaned, but for now it does seem like some sort of conversion might be going on.

Thanks for trying this. That second pic sure seems to be bluer and less intense. This is a reasonably strong indication of removal of some harmaline in some way. The harmaline fluorescence is strong and overwhelmingly dominant in mixtures of the three (H/DHH/THH).

What metal is your PC made of? Did you cook directly in the PC without any other (glass) reaction vessel?

With my repeated PC ascorbic cooks on whole rue seed, all twelve were only 20 minutes each, making a total of 4 hours cooking time plus heating and cooling - this latter one being considerably longer in duration than the cooking. Each cook had at least ten grams of vitC added. And the eight cooks prior to the last one were done on alternating halves of the kilo of seeds.

In light of this, it may be better to add the ascorbic acid in increments to the reaction mixture. It may be better to heat the mixture to only 80°C as this lessens the decomposition of the ascorbic acid. The only reason for using a PC at the lower temperature is that it fairly effectively limits the amount of atmospheric oxygen that can get into the reaction.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ShadedSelf
#29 Posted : 5/18/2022 11:14:20 AM

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Im pretty sure its stainless steel, I cooked it directly without any other sort of tools or vessels.

I am a bit confused now though, I took some of the PCed alkaloids, compared their glow to regular rue extract and I couldnt see any noticeable difference.

I still want to give this another shot next time I extract from seeds.
 
Jacubey
#30 Posted : 6/1/2022 6:05:52 PM
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Finally getting settled and beginning to resume my experiments.

The Thh I converted tests positive for lead, but with the reassurances I've gotten so far, I suspect this is because I layered coffee filters rather than a proper buchner filteration setup with #101 filtration disks. I probably just allowed particulate zinc and lead through the filters and in to my product. I will get the proper filtration set up and do it right next time.

Do not skimp on filters!
 
ShadedSelf
#31 Posted : 6/1/2022 9:32:47 PM

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Interesting.
I had this thought, if one washes the zinc dust on coffe or high flow rate filters before the reduction, that might wash away some of the finer lead and other particles, so when you are properly filtering the final THH containing solution there might be less particles small enough to get through.

Did you ever try the magnesium route?
Ive been doing a bit more research and Ive found a magneisum ribbon analysis and some vendors that claim no lead at all.
 
Jacubey
#32 Posted : 6/2/2022 4:04:00 AM
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I haven't gotten around to doing the magnesium route yet. I want to get through my experiments with zinc first.

Next thing I'm going to try is cotton filtration (since I've seen it mentioned several times now), and check if it also winds up with lead contamination. After that I'll do a conversion with proper lab filters.

At this point I've made enough mistakes that I may as well exhaust all the simple mistakes to see how it effects outcome.

I'm still super curious about the insanely vibrant blue liquid I produced.
 
ava69
#33 Posted : 6/3/2022 1:31:14 PM

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Downwardsfromzero, is there anyway we can promote shadedself to full member? I love his posts a lot, really good, and he reads a lot, very informative and intelligent posts...
 
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