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Finally found some Iboga, tips? Options
 
Th3k1d93
#1 Posted : 4/23/2022 2:21:42 AM

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So, after years of searching, I finally got ahold of some Iboga. ~~~EDITED OUT~~~

I'll have just 125 grams, so i dont have a whole lot to play around with, and i have a purpose for at least one person. My brother is on methadone and has been dropping his dose steadily over the past few months. I've helped him get from 270mg (a criminal dose to put someone on, honestly) down to 125mg over the past 5 months. He's doing well with the lack of withdrawal symptoms, but he's anxious to be able to switch back to full time kratom with occasional opium for pain relief (He's got horrific chronic pain from multiple amputations and will require some kind of painkilling maintenance.)

At what dose can we try a flood dose followed my microdoses of iboga? Im aware he's still go back into withdrawal after about 6-7 days, but hopefully between microdosing the iboga and taking kratom/clonidine, he'll be able to make the leap.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated, especially since I don't have a ton of it to play with. I do know the bark is VERY high quality.
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RhythmSpring
#2 Posted : 4/23/2022 3:39:14 AM

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First of all, 125 grams of rootbark is a LOT of Iboga. I recommend perusing the erowid trip reports for iboga, which give you an idea of how impactful just 5-20 grams of rootbark can be.

And, I'm sure you're aware, but just to make sure: He needs to be OFF methadone completely before he takes any iboga. The combination of the two can be quite dangerous, iirc.

Better to switch to the natural opioid (Kratom), and then stop that before taking iboga.
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Th3k1d93
#3 Posted : 4/23/2022 4:36:10 AM

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Apologies on the sourcing talk, I thought what I said would be vague enough to be okay, it won't happen again <3

Quote:
And, I'm sure you're aware, but just to make sure: He needs to be OFF methadone completely before he takes any iboga. The combination of the two can be quite dangerous, iirc.


Would switching to a short acting opioid for a week, followed by allowing withdrawal to start be enough time off methadone to make it safer?

He also brought up his willingness to basically take the iboga, then go admit himself to the ER as soon as effects begin for proper safety monitoring given the state of it's legality here. He says his counselor gave him the potential suggestion, which I'm not sure how true that actually is, but it seems to make sense at face value. I don't think he'd get in trouble at all for doing it at least. I just don't know if they'd allow him to ride it out and be monitored, or if they'd intervene and try to negate the effects with an antipsychotic + naloxone.

He's just incredibly desperate to get off of it as soon as he can, and i desperately want my little brother back in good health Sad
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dragonrider
#4 Posted : 4/23/2022 1:43:24 PM

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If you're on a strong dose of iboga, you are pretty much immobilized. Driving to the ER yourself in such a state would be pretty much a suïcide mission.

It is important to know that taking iboga is never completely void of any serious risks. Especially if you have a heart or vascular condition of some kind, or if you are physically weak for some other reason.

I would suggest that you and your brother read as much as you can about iboga first. Know what you're dealing with.

If you have decided that you're realy gonna do it, then making sure you're prepared for it is the next step.

It is not advisable for your brother to take a large dose on his own. It would be good to have someone around for at least 48 hours, depending on the dose and way of taking it. In some cases you could make that 72 hours or more.

When you're taking iboga, you're almost guaranteed to throw up a lot. This can lead to dehydration quickly. Eating anything during the experience is unwise, because it will only lead to more puking. This also applies to fruit or vegetable juices unfortunately.

The best and safest way to take iboga, is by ingesting small amounts over the course of a few days. A teaspoon of rootbark every two, three or four hours even, until you start feeling the effects. This way, you are gradually being flooded with iboga.

There is plenty of stuff i didn't even mention yet, like the best diet to follow to ensure your body is properly prepared. But you can figure all these things out yourself if you take the time to inform and prepare yourself.

That would be my main message anyway. Take this stuff very seriously.

The best of luck to you and your brother.



 
RhythmSpring
#5 Posted : 4/23/2022 5:43:27 PM

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Even if he could get to the ER safely, there are many problems with that idea. One, the ER is a cold, uninspiring, and harrowing setting for a trip. Much better to be outdoors, or with music, etc. Two, that's an awful thing to do to medical professionals. How many of them do you think are read up on Iboga? The tools at their disposal (i.e. pharmaceutical medicine) might lethally interact with the iboga. That trip sounds more dangerous than safe.

And also, like dragonrider said, you NEED a trip sitter when you take iboga. It is a necessity--not just a good idea.

Quote:
Would switching to a short acting opioid for a week, followed by allowing withdrawal to start be enough time off methadone to make it safer?

I'd say so. Iirc, you need to be off methadone for 1-2 weeks before taking Iboga. Read below:

Quote:
According to the NHTSA, “The half-life of (R,S)-methadone is 15-60 hours, and 10-40 hours for (R)-methadone.” These numbers vary greatly as each person could experience an extremely different timeline from another. Because of the possible side effects of this half-life, patients and clinicians must be very careful when administering methadone.

(https://www.methadonecenters.com/understanding-the-methadone-half-life)
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Th3k1d93
#6 Posted : 4/24/2022 7:39:32 AM

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I appreciate the knowledge everyone, very much so.

You're right with the ER setting. I feel like that was an idea born more out of desperation than anything. It's not my place to advertise his issues going on, but for personal reasons, he's in a fairly big rush. There's some Medical/life circumstances with him going on that make him very keen on the quickest route possible to get through detoxification without having to deal with going through hell.
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hug454
#7 Posted : 4/24/2022 12:23:02 PM
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Th3k1d93 wrote:
I appreciate the knowledge everyone, very much so.

You're right with the ER setting. I feel like that was an idea born more out of desperation than anything. It's not my place to advertise his issues going on, but for personal reasons, he's in a fairly big rush. There's some Medical/life circumstances with him going on that make him very keen on the quickest route possible to get through detoxification without having to deal with going through hell.


Hi, i understand that your brother is in a rush to detox, but if he is planning to stop at 125mgs of methadone, that is a massive cliff to jump off of. Even with a kratom/clonidine cushion. Is there any possibility that he can continue to taper more over a period of months before attempting the detox? Stopping a massive daily dose of methadone can be so painful that it could be setting one's self up for failure. I don't think that there is a quick fix/detox for opiate addiction, maybe a few rare cases but for me it was a long game to get sorted. All of the quick detoxes that i did ended in failure but i have never done a detox off of 125mgs of methadone. That is super hardcore. Good luck to your bro.
 
null24
#8 Posted : 4/26/2022 5:56:03 AM

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Hey. Man, I understand the desperation that could lead to thinking about an idea like that but there are so many possible negative outcomes and very little potential for good ones. It sounds like you have taken into consideration the advice you have received, which is good.

I can't speak to iboga from personal experience but I can to methadone. 125mg is a signifigant amount. He could potentially walk away from a dose like that and not even begin to feel withdrawal for a week due to the long half-life, but he'd be wanting to die when he does. And it would continue for weeks, months, not days like heroin. Methadone is a beast- it is a great tool but it takes playing a long game to kick.

From what I do know of iboga, no legitimate practitioner would admister it to someone on such a large dose. Without pretending to know about the neurobilogy behind it, I'll use street parlance to say methadone "sticks around" a hell of a lot longer than most traditional opioids making it one hell of a tricky bastard to kick. It has a 24 hour half life, compared to heroin at, I think, 6, or fentanyl at- again, I think- 3 or 4 hours or something. Do the math, at 125 mg per day, he's got a shed ton stacked up in him. Even iboga can't compete with that kind of affinity. Not at 125mgs. Maybe 1, but not 125. Just saying. It's powerful stuff, iboga, and might be magic of some sort, but it just can't do that. He could end up fighting a losing battle that could catch up sooner or later.

Methadone can work, with a slow and steady titration combined with some real self-care and personal work. It's a bitch, I know. It's a long game that you'll want to escape at every second because it's bullsheet and it sucks but that's corporate medicine (in the states at least) so get pissed about that but stay on course.

Psychedelics like mushrooms can help your brother possibly do some of that inner work and may help him continue a steady and slow titration to get to a place where he can safely take iboga. Think on the term of outside a year, not a week. And this would also give time to prepare for it.
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Th3k1d93
#9 Posted : 5/2/2022 2:10:16 AM

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Th3k1d93 wrote:
hug454 wrote:

Hi, i understand that your brother is in a rush to detox, but if he is planning to stop at 125mgs of methadone, that is a massive cliff to jump off of. Even with a kratom/clonidine cushion. Is there any possibility that he can continue to taper more over a period of months before attempting the detox? Stopping a massive daily dose of methadone can be so painful that it could be setting one's self up for failure. I don't think that there is a quick fix/detox for opiate addiction, maybe a few rare cases but for me it was a long game to get sorted. All of the quick detoxes that i did ended in failure but i have never done a detox off of 125mgs of methadone. That is super hardcore. Good luck to your bro.



Oh god no, lol. We've gotten his dose down that low starting the taper last November 1st. The plan *at best case* was to continue tapering at 1MG a day until about 50-60mg, then seeing how the withdrawal is at that relatively mild level and assess from there. Goals of utilizing Iboga at around the 40mg mark. And that's been pretty much strictly with a moderate taper, the addition of Clonidine and significantly more THC/CBD/CBN used than normal ~ markedly at night more than anything.


null24 wrote:
Hey. Man, I understand the desperation that could lead to thinking about an idea like that but there are so many possible negative outcomes and very little potential for good ones. It sounds like you have taken into consideration the advice you have received, which is good.

I can't speak to iboga from personal experience but I can to methadone. 125mg is a signifigant amount. He could potentially walk away from a dose like that and not even begin to feel withdrawal for a week due to the long half-life, but he'd be wanting to die when he does. And it would continue for weeks, months, not days like heroin. Methadone is a beast- it is a great tool but it takes playing a long game to kick.


Absolutely, i'm trying to do this with all priorities being to his overall well-being. It honestly did help him out a ton, and he worked the program somewhat correctly - aside from the obnoxiously high dose achieved, he did manage to abstain from everything else one could view as entirely hedonistic as soon as he started the program.



As far as other psychedelics, he's used mushrooms and DMT both to his advantage during this process. However with Iboga, it was the hope for withdrawal cessation. In fact, he's honestly not looking forward to the Iboga. He's not nearly as fond of psychedelics as I am, and is only utilizing it for the hope of making the process easier to physically manage.
Without growth, what's the point?

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