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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
SHYBZY
#2001 Posted : 8/12/2021 10:31:30 PM
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cheif hobo stank wrote:
Okey sounds like you have your heart set on publicising these vulnerable trees. Personally I feel it is short-sighted saying 'well the information has already been put out there, so there is no harm in putting the information even FURTHER out there'. Trying to mend the stable door after a horse has bolted makes sense if there are still some left in the paddock, no?

Also I am aware that the person who discovered the activity of one of these species made a deliberate effort to not reveal the identity of the tree due to its rarity and slow growing nature. Yes it is all well and good to promote the taking of phyllodes rather than bark. But if you have seen this tree in the wild you would know the phyllodes are too high to access without serious climbing gear. "Oh snap I've just driven all this way from brizvagus and look how high those branches are! Can't go back empty handed, oh well a little bit of bark won't hurt aye"

As far as I can ascertain this thread is the only place it's identity and content has been made obvious. Google it's name followed by DMT see what you get.

I know the other species has been published in Voogelbreinder. But where do you think the majority of amateur wanna-be harvester is likely to be getting their hitlist from, a short-print-run 100 dollar ethnobotany reference? or a free public web forum?

Yes, extracts from rare plants have been distributed as simply DMT. And also, these rare extracts have also been marketed as "super-rare special kuta dmt" and people have marked-up the value of this product considerably. It's rarity makes it MORE SOUGHT AFTER in some "stamp collector" circles!

As for your "consultation" of the trees involved, that really is a typical justification for irresponsible or self-serving behavior in this scene. Be it financial or ego-fluffing. And really, if you have "consulted" these Vulnerable trees, then you have either directly or indirectly hastened their demise. Fact is, taking *any* biomass weakens the tree. Taking branches for phyllodes removes fresh growth which is where flowering and seed-set occurs, reducing reproductive potential and facilitating entry of pathogens.

I really do urge you to give some more consideration regarding this matter.

 

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SHYBZY
#2002 Posted : 8/12/2021 10:42:26 PM
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I believe education is the key. There are always going to be tools out there with no scruples who dont care what they extract from. But a little education from someone like Nen could make people think twice. I know I did.Thumbs up
 
Sidisheikh.mehriz
#2003 Posted : 9/4/2021 1:58:46 PM

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I have been planning to make this post for quiet some time now. On the wiki page its claimed that the information that acacia tortilis containing DMT was an erroneous reporting by trout. Apparently this acacias does indeed contain DMT!

This research paper has confirmed that the leaves of acacia tortilis from Saudi Arabia near mekka has got DMT proved with TLC.

Another interesting aspect of this research paper is that the aqueous extract of the leaves has anti anxiety and sedative effect on mice and they believe this to be relating to the leaves DMT content. Which kind of confuses me since I never considered DMT having anti anxiety properties when ingested by mice.. are mice not capable of breaking down DMT in their gut as we humans can? Or could it be that there are other constituants in the leaves making this aquous extract active?.

Anyways here is the TLC result pic from the research paper. The DMT stain does seem faint compared to the standard stain.. I don't think TLC can reliably tell the concentration of a certain alkaloid in a plant? I leave this to the more experienced and knowledgeable members here to figure that out.
 
Sidisheikh.mehriz
#2004 Posted : 9/4/2021 2:09:36 PM

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While I don't have access to the same acacia tortilis in this research paper there's plenty of Acacia tortilis subsp. raddiana where am from although a few hours away from me. Perhaps I could find a few nearby if I dig up enough and test this out.
 
Salbvatrucha
#2005 Posted : 3/18/2022 9:44:45 AM
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Hello! Can you please tell me which acacia can be used in Thailand for DMT production?
 
downwardsfromzero
#2006 Posted : 3/18/2022 9:46:52 PM

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Salbvatrucha wrote:
Hello! Can you please tell me which acacia can be used in Thailand for DMT production?

Hello, I can't specifically tell you much but have you tried searching for information on trees found in Thailand? You could see which Acacia species grow in Thailand and then cross-check them with lists of known active acacias. Maybe you will find that Acacia confusa grows nearby. Be sure to let us know what you find out.

Please remember, if you succeed in finding an active specimen avoid harming the tree and only harvest in a sustainable way.

There may be some other active species of plants in your part of the world such as Desmodium pulchellum and desmodium gyrans, IIRC. Familiarise yourself with your local botany as much as you can, it's a useful thing to know.

What attracted you to DMT anyhow?


[EDIT for posterity: this was my post #6561, which is 3^8 Smile ]




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Salbvatrucha
#2007 Posted : 3/19/2022 8:47:58 AM
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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Salbvatrucha wrote:
Hello! Can you please tell me which acacia can be used in Thailand for DMT production?

Hello, I can't specifically tell you much but have you tried searching for information on trees found in Thailand? You could
What attracted you to DMT anyhow?


[EDIT for posterity: this was my post #6561, which is 3^8 Smile ]


Thank you very much for the information about desmodium gyrans, it seems to be here and I will try to get DMT out of it. But there is very little content! Leaves (0.004% in dry leaf: 82 mg per 2 kg). I have not tried DMT yet, I have only heard a lot about it. As soon as I find it in plants, I'll try it 😅
 
_Trip_
#2008 Posted : 3/20/2022 6:21:47 AM

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You might find acacia confusa in Thailand. It does grow in south east Asia.
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.

 
Salbvatrucha
#2009 Posted : 3/20/2022 7:30:47 AM
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_Trip_ wrote:
You might find acacia confusa in Thailand. It does grow in south east Asia.


which is better to use: leaves, bark or root? And how many percent DMT?
 
_Trip_
#2010 Posted : 3/20/2022 9:24:03 AM

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Salbvatrucha wrote:

which is better to use: leaves, bark or root? And how many percent DMT?



https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Acacia_confusa
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.

 
Cbl8622
#2011 Posted : 7/14/2022 3:04:25 PM
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Anyone here from tasmania? I need help
 
endlessness
#2012 Posted : 7/16/2022 2:39:39 PM

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What do you need help with?

If it's acacia related, might as well just post here, no?
 
ozmflb
#2013 Posted : 9/18/2022 1:42:21 AM
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Is it worth to perform extraction of the yellow flowers? I have some samples that may be A. obtusifolia I have phyllodes and stems but can't find anything on the flowers.
 
acacian
#2014 Posted : 9/25/2022 5:56:34 PM

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ozmflb wrote:
Is it worth to perform extraction of the yellow flowers? I have some samples that may be A. obtusifolia I have phyllodes and stems but can't find anything on the flowers.



I remember some time ago reading a post in this thread from someone who had sampled an extract from floribunda flowers . Its probably early on in this thread

not sure with obtuse.. considering its been found by some to have lower or non existent yield during flowering its likely that they won't. But if you have already harvested some then its worth the experiment i think. The twigs and phyllodes are usually pretty reliable with active trees ..

On that note.. I'm still skeptical when people say that the phyllodes of confusa aren't active. If anyone can link me to more info on that I'd be interested to have a read as I haven't frequented the forums in quite a while so I'm sure a lot has happened in that time!

Hope everyone is doing well! Wattle season is in full throttle where I live.. beautiful fragrances outside
 
acacian
#2015 Posted : 12/23/2022 11:46:01 PM

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Merry xmas to all you acacian legends Very happy

Acacia Rubida keeping with the christmas colours..
acacian attached the following image(s):
IMG_0130.JPG (3,772kb) downloaded 169 time(s).
 
nen888
#2016 Posted : 2/19/2023 6:00:59 AM
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Greetings Acacians..

..i haven’t had a lot of time to be on the nexus the past few years, and am partly awaiting another ‘wave’ of paradigm innovation in the entheogenic world ..thanks those who've kept contributing..Sidisheikh.mehriz keep up the middle-eastern research, there's a lot going on in the desert lands!..i had noted that paper, and seen other evidence for that species...it should be in the thread somewhere..thanks for the pic acacian

i’ve noticed a few acacia related topics in other recent threads that I wanted to address briefly here:

Acacia confusa Phyllode content

..a species with availability to people in different parts of the world, with shamanic significance in it’s native Taiwan and Phillipines..much has been written about it on the nexus..

A frequently asked question is whether the phyllodes (leaf like structures) contain tryptamines as do the bark and stem bark..
this is an important issue as far as sustainability is concerned, as phyllodes and small branches will grow back/replenish, but bark will not.. (harvesting of root bark beyond small amounts will of course usually lead to the death of the tree)..

The short answer is that based on several reports by reliable amateur researchers, with a lot of acacia experience, the phyllodes certainly can contain usable amounts of tryptamines (c. 0.3-4%) ..however, the published formal scientific test of phyllodes & stems claims to have found almost nothing, in the way of alkaloids..this was "Nb-Methylated Tryptamines And Other Constituents Of Acacia Confusa Merr. Of Hong Kong" by H. R. Arthur, S. N. Loo, and J. A. Lamberton (1967)  …and this is sometimes given or quoted as showing the phyllodes don’t contain alkaloids..

..this particular paper’s methodology can be seriously questioned, and cannot be taken as a definitive result

A. confusa is closely related to some Australian species, so we would expect a similar relationship between bark/stem and phyllode content, where in the majority of cases the phyllodes contain between 1/3 and 2/3 of the bark/stem percentage content..although the relative ratio of alkaloids may differ between parts of the plant..

as has been discussed in this thread and elsewhere on the nexus, although phyllodes are technically an extension of the bark (that’s why they’re not leaves), extraction from them is often not as straightforward…low percentage findings on some Australian species by underground researchers in the 90s have been subsequently shown to be not correct…(phyllodes need to be completely dry, and usually heat is required to pull alkaloids out of the material)…there can also sometimes be seasonal or individual variation (incl in bark), so a single specimen or time of year can never be taken as definitive either..

Returning to the paper in question: - they used room temperature rapid extraction, the efficiency of which can be questioned, but more importantly they extracted at pH 8…this is too low for efficient tryptamine extraction..a pH of at least 9.5-11 is required for effective extraction of dmt (often higher)…a chemist will be able to better explain the theoretical scientific basis of this (and from memory there is a topic on this somewhere on the nexus)…but this is well established…i would not expect pH 8 to work..in the same paper they also extracted the stem bark by the same methodology and got a very low percentage (0.07) which does not align with more recent tests, showing appreciable amounts of dmt/nmt in the stem bark….

this is a perfect example of why, when a single paper or figure is given for a species on wikipedia or similar, it cannot be taken as a definitive quantitive description of the species…

there is, as with many acacia species, some variation in alkaloid ratios, with sometimes there being more nmt than dmt...this can be seasonal or weather influenced...and also many acacias are polyploid (more than 2 sets of dna, sometimes 8 or more in acacias)..this means there are multiple phenotypes of the same species, with different alkaloid profiles...

..if I lived anywhere near A. confusa I would have done several phyllode tests by now, so I encourage those who are in a position to do so to run some tests towards a more definitive conclusion on this species (remember - fully dried, and using some heat)…it would not be consistent with findings in it’s Australian relatives to not have alkaloids in the phyllodes…and the use of phyllodes will certainly improve sustainability of the species…
this is a particularly poignant issue when cultivating acacia species…
.......

This leads to > i have seen a few recent threads asking about: at what age a grown acacia will contain the amount of alkaloids that a mature adult of the species does…?

..there are no published systematic studies in this area, but based on 27 odd years of observation I can offer the following -

very young treelets will usually not contain large amounts of alkaloids and sometimes will contain different alkaloid profiles to the adults (such as simple tryptamine instead of dmt)…the age at which grown trees contain their full alkaloid spectrum and content seems to be a function of them getting closer to full flowering and reproductive maturity, rather than a specific time factor…acacias can be grown to size more rapidly with the following conditions:

- good drainage + regular watering cycle (do not use commercial potting mixes, use 2/3 river sand 1/3 coco or peat moss)
- lots of light (but being careful not to let the soil completely dry out)
- high nitrogen/low phosphorus fertiliser (this is the opposite of many commercial fertilisers, nitrogen is required for alkaloid production, acacias don’t like phosphorus…there are some commercial fertilisers for proteas and other species which are nitrogen rich/phosphorus low)

..transplanted into a large (3 ft) pot, with this regime..acacias can reach 4-5 ft and reproductive maturity in 2-3 years..in other conditions they can be much slower, including in the wild where it can take years to grow past 1ft….when they get to a good size the watering regime should be reduced…at this kind of size (5ft), and showing ability to flower (though they may not do this depending on conditions) they will usually contain appreciable alkaloid content…high availability of nitrogen is a key factor too..strategic pruning can increase branch spread out and reduce height, and maximize space usage..

.......

..as far as 'progress' is concerned…in Australia some people are still negatively impacting rare species in the wild, such as what has been referred to as ‘species C’ in this thread..such greed and environmental destruction cannot be justified..only a shift in paradigm (be it scientific ethics, consumerist ethics, or plant spiritual) will help here…of course there will always be some greedy or ignorant people, and simply taking DMT will not enlighten them any further…i really hope the next generation moves beyond this to solid cultivation practices..

Thank you to those who have continued to post on their acacia findings, it’s of great value in this still largely unexplored and rich genus..still with many mysteries in several continents…
I’m still referring to what are now arbitrarily labelled vachellia, senegalia (etc) as ‘acacia’ for historical and cultural reasons..

And i’d like to encourage the entheogenic world in general to not casually interchange terms like ‘ayahuasca’ with analogues containing acacias…acacias are on an empirical level different enough in their chemical content, on an ecological level very different in environment, and on a cultural/spiritual level acknowledged as unique entities, that they really should be treated as their own dimension…

Be well acacias and acacians all…
.
 
acacian
#2017 Posted : 2/21/2023 9:31:16 AM

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Great to see you come out of the woodworks nen! And great also that you nutted out that study re: confusa's negative phyllode finding.. I would also be very surprised if they didn't contain decent content.. and 0.3-0.4 is very decent content to work with in exchange for securing the health of the trees.

Funny that the root bark lore lives on from mimosa hostilis.. which I recall was itself reported to contain very good levels in the branch and twig by a member here who lived in close proximity and observed the industry. They claimed that the majority of commercial "rootbark" was in fact bark from the other parts of the tree and labelled rootbark merely for marketing value. A friend of mine has a Confusa that is getting of decent size. I'll encourage him to test the phyllodes and post his results. I believe he also had a good result with phyllodes of a roadside Acacia Concurrens... just to add one more positive report to the growing list for that species

re: fertilisation.. I was wondering whether light fertilisation during the seedling stage is something that they would benefit from or whether best to wait till they're more mature? Also if using a sandy mix I have noticed best to have something underneath the pot as if the medium dries out too much before the roots have established it can fall through the pot! I had this happen to a few seedlings in hiko trays recently

Regarding species c.. if there's one encouraging thing to come of all this carnage it is it's exponentially growing widespread cultivation throughout Australia. It appears to have become the most sought after species to grow. This is very encouraging.. Maybe that was its plan all along.. But the survival of the wild population/s remains nerve racking. It grows so fast it makes no sense to go near it in the wild beyond enjoying its presence.. in the conservation plan for this species one of the key threats listed was 'Illegal bark stripping'.. for parks management to be aware of this means it is clearly not small scale harvesting with a solid code of ethics as some claim .. pretty grim.

As a sidenote I thought I'd make a point about the ethics of poachers taking down trees that have come down in storms (I see people using this slippery justification a lot) .. just recently I was bushwalking and saw a HUGE probably 30m tall mother seed Acacia Doratoxylon completely flat on the ground. At first glance it appeared more or less uprooted.. What roots it had left in the ground however had such strong foundations that the tree adapted to its new position and was even continuing to put out enormous quantities of seed .. and many saplings were visible in close proximity. Never assume a tree is going to die until its dead! .. is the moral of that story

Does anyone here have experience potentiating acacia with moclobemide? I have heard that as an MAOI it is more 'transparent' in its effects (or lack of). I wondered in the context of acacia whether it may allow a more pure acacia experience to take place rather than mixing with vine or rue

Just a thought to ponder.. The acacia's are like the physical avatars of the tryptamine intelligence .. being around them greatly helps give these experiences context in the physical domain. Buying their ground remains online disconnects us from that potential context.. this goes for all of the plants. Taking some time to get to know them is a highly valuable pursuit





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nen888
#2018 Posted : 2/21/2023 10:17:26 AM
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hi acacian, good to see you about too..i just saw your above post as it was posted while i was posting below ..i'll get to it in time
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

..while i'm about, i wanted to address and respond to some posts i didn't get to as i was away...and when I get time give a few updates - there's new findings on the nexus Acacia Analysis Thread, and elsewhere.. [i also want to mention that the index of the thread has not been properly updated past somewhere around page 70..but there's still a fair bit of information in that]...new findings, research and musings are always most welcome here..

first, Sidisheikh.mehriz, i didn't properly address your post..if there's a lot of A. raddiana (A. tortillis spp raddiana, now Vachellia tortilis) where you are, then there is a lot of spiritual history nearby...and almost certainly some worthwhile tests..thank you for a very on topic and relevant post..

Known anti-oxidant activity from this species would most likely be due to Tannins and/or Flavonoids, based on knowledge of other acacias and activity tests ..it is gracious, so to speak, that our authors chose to accurately record the alkaloid (for once) and i thank them...(a suspiciously high number of papers in the past two decades, chemically testing potential tryptamine acacias have reported finding alkaloids, but not given the identity, or enough data to guess identity, they're littered throughout the thread)...many flavonoids have psychoactivity, including Anxiolytic action and more...but that's another story...there's a lot i have, and can say about middle-eastern acacias, but now is not the time..

Another thing about A. tortillis is that, like a lot of other species, i had previously seen unpublished test data verifying dmt, but was not at liberty to directly cite it...some unpublished research i have cited in the past...but there's a lot of information out there that's not public or easily accessible... for example, in this thread, wayback, i mentioned that an Acacia Study Group newsletter (of the Australian Native Plants Society) cited the known existence of an unpublished report which found DMT in over 150 species of Australian acacias...the majority by the way of aus species have still not been tested... they have the most established of botanists advising that group..

there's a lot of information out there..some watch but do not speak...


That brings us to the subject of Information itself, which was one of the original points or theories of creation of this thread, along with damage control for human threat to and harm of some species in the wild, and harm minimisation...

we'll get to that (information) in a future post, but, looking at this page,
first we will sadly have to address the darkness of some individuals' harm to certain acacia trees in the wild, and their exploitation of those trees for self promotion and greed, in order to comment on SHYBZY's post..

TBC
.


ps.. i think if we see an image of a tree such as A. raddiana, often solitary in the desert, the sole refuge for birds and the like, we might understand the place of the 'sacred'
nen888 attached the following image(s):
Acacia raddiana - Sahara.png (3,341kb) downloaded 110 time(s).
 
Sidisheikh.mehriz
#2019 Posted : 2/21/2023 8:07:57 PM

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Thanks for the reply nen. Indeed raddiana has a sacred place in the African culture and is an efficient remedy for a plethora of ailments besides being a tonic and an aphrodisiac.

The tree grows in the Tunisian south in a natural reserve called "bouhedma" and is considered a threatened species in the country. So far it's growing in numbers and regaining some of its lost territory. A very hardy desert acacia that has helped bring back some previously considered extinct fauna like some gazelle specie back to tunisia. Some black leopards were even spotted in the natural reserve since the come back of the gazelle.

Some personal reports from Israel mentions this species as active. I will have to give the reserve a visit and collect some biomass for testing.

I have tested Acacia Karoo (root bark in summer) by the way a few years ago and got some clear liquid extract that was mildly active vaped on a price of aluminium foil. I used hexane at the time. Might give it another trie with chloroform and grind the material instead of shredded.
 
nen888
#2020 Posted : 2/24/2023 8:26:56 AM
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thanks for that report Sidisheikh.mehriz.…there are various not yet properly defined oil like things which can occur in acacias, some with mild CNS activity, some also volatile oils (fatty acids… A. karoo ('Sweet Thorn' ) certainly matches the category for papers indicating alkaloids but not identifying them…it may not contain a tryptamine, and there’s a lot in there, but there’s definitely things going on CNS wise with that species!


Jagube…I’ll pop into your floribunda thread when I get a chance, great you are propagating in new territories!

downwardsfromzero….good to see you about..thanks for watching the deck

_Trip_ …thanks for that information back there…it’s worth persisting in these kinds of tests…it’s a vast world of possibles the acacia one…


Woolmer …belated hi
..there is some evidence Galls may increase alkaloids in A longifolia, but may lead to the creation of additional potentially heavy alkaloids (wasp control)…the Galls themselves - while I can imagine some very bizarre wasp induced compounds in there (but then perhaps mite and thrip galls have a gentler chemistry) - that would indeed be an interesting experiment!

.
As we've seen a lot about Australian species in growing other continents, here's a photo of the African Acacia karoo (Vachellia karoo) growing in Australia, where it's considered a noxious weed..it has many uses in different parts of Africa, from treating malaria, to treating dizziness, or fattening goats...
nen888 attached the following image(s):
A. karoo nsw.jpg (483kb) downloaded 145 time(s).
 
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