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Ph will not go higher Options
 
oetzi13
#1 Posted : 2/3/2022 8:52:50 PM

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Hola!
Attempting a kash’s tek on some very concentrated tea/tar.
Lots of lye was added but any subsequent addition of lye is not making any difference.
It does not want to go higher than 10-11 it seems.
What going on here?Confused


Also wondering if it's a bad idea to mix lye AND KOH or Calcium hydroxide in one patch? Does it matter?
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Dirty T
#2 Posted : 2/4/2022 7:00:25 PM

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What are you using to measure PH? NaoH has a PH of 13. What you describe sounds more in line with Sodium bicarbonate. We use NaoH not only to reach the 10.67 PH required to convert all of the DMT to freebase but also to Lyse the cell walls in STB Teks. Maybe your PH metepir is broken? Sodium Carbonate has a PH of 11.4... I'm an idiot, this is about mescaline extract not DMT, sorry for the confusion and off reply.
 
downwardsfromzero
#3 Posted : 2/4/2022 11:04:26 PM

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Strong base can destroy pH probes, it's worth considering.

Dirty T wrote:
We use NaoH not only to reach the 10.67 PH required to convert all of the DMT to freebase but also to Lyse the cell walls in STB Teks.
DMT? In a cactus? Wink

oetzi13 wrote:
Also wondering if it's a bad idea to mix lye AND KOH or Calcium hydroxide in one patch? Does it matter?
Mixing lye and KOH isn't especially a problem. If you were using Ca(OH)2 in a drytek, adding one of the more soluble bases might be a bad idea. It would certainly preclude the use of ethyl acetate as a solvent, such as we would see in the CIELO tek.

What exactly have you done so far? How do you plan to proceed?




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― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
oetzi13
#4 Posted : 2/5/2022 6:26:58 AM

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various different PH papers were used.
One of them was dipped in straight lye and turned purple (the highest ,14) but the cactus solution never reached this point.
the plan now is to leave it as it is, pull with Toluene and salt with Benzoic Acid.
Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise.
- Buddha.
 
Loveall
#5 Posted : 2/5/2022 11:37:41 PM

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oetzi13 wrote:
various different PH papers were used.
One of them was dipped in straight lye and turned purple (the highest ,14) but the cactus solution never reached this point.
the plan now is to leave it as it is, pull with Toluene and salt with Benzoic Acid.


You can check the toluene with a pH strip, it should become slightly alkaline as you pull, less so on later pulls.

Interested in your direct benzoic acid salting. I think you will see xtals forming in the toluene as I got. Suggest we call this CITLO.
 
oetzi13
#6 Posted : 2/6/2022 4:55:38 AM

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Yeah. Just saw your post over there about the benzoic acid salting. Brilliant - its like Cielo for wet material.
I like CITLO!
yes, I'll keep ya posted, txs for the PH tip!
Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise.
- Buddha.
 
oetzi13
#7 Posted : 2/16/2022 7:21:33 PM

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Quick update: This worked like a charm.Thumbs up Pulled with Toluene (from wet S. Hydroxide tea material), salted with 2g of B. Acid. First nothing happened (pic 1) but an hour later it turned milky and gelatinous (pic 2). Another hour later it all separated leaving behind perfectly white (small) crystals (pic 3). Fantastic, now there is a wet Cielo!
All hail to CITLO Big grin
oetzi13 attached the following image(s):
Screen Shot 2022-02-16 at 11.15.04 AM.png (472kb) downloaded 102 time(s).
Screen Shot 2022-02-16 at 11.15.21 AM.png (443kb) downloaded 103 time(s).
Screen Shot 2022-02-16 at 11.15.32 AM.png (436kb) downloaded 104 time(s).
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Loveall
#8 Posted : 2/17/2022 11:56:38 AM

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Those are pretty mescaline salt candidates. Looks very pure, can't know for sure without an analysis, which would be very interesting to do.

I wonder if toluene could also pull the lime paste. Easier to separate the solvent out for the lazyman. If so, and if the analysis is pure, CITLO would be as convenient as CIELO (except for the more offensive solvent smell and non food safe option).

Congrats on this result 👍
 
Cheelin
#9 Posted : 2/17/2022 1:03:02 PM

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oetzi13 wrote:
Quick update: This worked like a charm.Thumbs up Pulled with Toluene (from wet S. Hydroxide tea material), salted with 2g of B. Acid. First nothing happened (pic 1) but an hour later it turned milky and gelatinous (pic 2). Another hour later it all separated leaving behind perfectly white (small) crystals (pic 3). Fantastic, now there is a wet Cielo!
All hail to CITLO Big grin



Beautiful! Congrats!

I’ll be sticking with Cielo, though.
 
oetzi13
#10 Posted : 2/17/2022 7:03:57 PM

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Loveall, what's non food safe in this?
Second pull did not look the same. Its more like a powder instead of needles (maybe they are just small?) but tastes the same. Confused
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Loveall
#11 Posted : 2/17/2022 7:25:38 PM

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oetzi13 wrote:
Loveall, what's non food safe in this?
Second pull did not look the same. Its more like a powder instead of needles (maybe they are just small?) but tastes the same. Confused


That's fine, lower concentration could change the size of the Xtals that form.

Not food safe only matters if you leave solvent behind by mistake. Dry everything up nicely, verify that fresh toluene dries clean and you should be good. Having a food safe Tek matters if there is a mistake and not all the solvent is removed, but is should be if doing things properly.
 
oetzi13
#12 Posted : 2/18/2022 4:23:24 PM

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Ok great. You had me worried for a sec Smile,
Toluene has been checked and dried out plenty. Should be good!

Added more B. Acid to the solvent of the first pull(after removing crystals), still more white powder appeared.
My guess is that this particular pull was heavily loaded with alks, what else could this be? Is there a way to turn that powder into those nice needles? re-X with water?
Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise.
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oetzi13
#13 Posted : 2/20/2022 8:22:30 PM

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white powder vs needles was tested. 600mg powder only - and it was too much. Never tripped like this b4. Holy shit. That was some next level experience / bordering dmt. A tripsitter had to be called in...lol
It works really really well Pleased
Things are not as they seem, nor are they otherwise.
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Cheelin
#14 Posted : 2/20/2022 9:30:15 PM

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About 370mg HCL, if M-citrate, Sounds like the real deal!
 
oetzi13
#15 Posted : 2/22/2022 4:55:39 PM

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swim has taken up to 500mg M. HCL before, with decent effects, but not like this. Swim was expecting an average medium effect, this was more like you would expect from a 1000mg. Gonna have to dial it down a bit next time LOL
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Cheelin
#16 Posted : 2/22/2022 6:21:36 PM

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👍🏻

Maybe Swimbo is getting some highly pure M, now

 
Loveall
#17 Posted : 2/22/2022 6:34:25 PM

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oetzi13, you may be the 1st person to ever try mescaline benzoate in the history of the world. Interesting result compared to HCl, mescalineH benzoate should be ~74% the potency of mescaline HCl (your 600mg benzoate equivalent to 444mg HCl). I wonder if the strong effect repeats with others. Could be that benzoate helps absorption? IDK, but something to keep an eye on since you had such strong effects.

Thanks for being a pioneer 🙏

What was your % yield?
 
Cheelin
#18 Posted : 2/22/2022 6:38:44 PM

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BITLO, lol, i thought we were talking CITLO!

Yeah, this is an anomaly worth tracking.
 
Loveall
#19 Posted : 2/22/2022 6:54:05 PM

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Cheelin wrote:
BITLO, lol, i thought we were talking CITLO!

Yeah, this is an anomaly worth tracking.


Well, the C stands for Crystals (not citric), so mescalineH benzoate comes from a CITLO process in my mind. The benzoic acid did not precipitate mescaline in EA, so the lazy xxtalization can only be done in Toluene as far as we know (prob xylene too, but who wants to use that super stinky solvent 😅). Organic linear acids are not usually soluble in Toluene, so the lazyman xtalization combos are (excess acid powder straight into solvent):

CIELO: E - stands for Ethyl acetate. Good salting with citric, fumaric, malic. Tartaric eventually worked but took a very long time. Other organic acids may work too. Benzoic did not work.

CITLO: T - stands for Toluene. Good direct salting with excess Benzoic acid. Organic acids won't dissolve in Toluene, so a lazy xxtalization not expected to work (would need the more involved water HCl, FASI, etc).

Mindlusion reccomended a hot acetone wash for CITLO to make extra sure all the toluene is removed.

I wonder if Toluene pulls should work with the 69ron paste, so I'll give it a shot. Maybe not if it can't penetrate the aqueous paste as well as EA. Worth a try since it could be a good option for some to avoid the volumes and emulsions from a LLE, especially if they can't get their hands on the less stinky/tocix EA.

I wonder if those getting goo with CIELO tired CITLO what the result would be.
 
Cheelin
#20 Posted : 2/22/2022 7:26:18 PM

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Lol, i can’t even get chemical nameology correct! Thanks for doing your best to staighten me out.

Please hurry up on the lazyman’s approach to dmt and harmalas, so a simpleton like me can make my own medicine without getting confused and making a bigger fool of himself.
 
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