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An overwhelmingly terrifying experience Options
 
Sanista
#1 Posted : 10/20/2021 12:37:41 AM

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Hello everyone! This is my first post on this fine forum, although I have been a reader of it for many years and often found helpful knowledge within it. Until today, I have had no cause to ever register - all my questions have been asked by others and the answers easily found.

I'd like to share, if I may, an experience of mine today, which happened within the last eight hours or so. I've never felt compelled to write a report of my psychedelic experiences before, but then I've never felt so shaken by one before either. I'm hoping that taking the time to write it down, and hopefully receive some thoughts on it, will help me process what has happened.

I’m afraid the report is somewhat wordy – I have tried to be succinct however I do not want to miss any details which may give you a better feel for the experience.


Background
To give you an idea, I'm late 20s, male, and I have been taking psychedelics for the best part of a decade now. Mostly LSD, but also some mushrooms, 2C-B, and every so often, some DMT. I've gained most of my psychedelic experience with LSD - I've taken countless trips, far more than I could remember or count - and some of those were at quite high dosages, which I'd worked up to over time. I almost exclusively trip alone, and I always try and work some meditation into my LSD trips.

As I've got more experienced with psychedelics over the years, I've seen common themes emerge between my trips, and I'm often able to transport myself back to similar mindsets which seem to build on each trip. For example, I often return to a place in my mind that I have experienced on both LSD and DMT, and this place feels a bit like a 'spiritual gateway' for me - when I have reached this place in my head, on any given trip, I know that my soul is open and receptive, and I often feel my ego starting to shred away.

Over the years, this state has become enhanced as I enter it more, and each time, less of my ego hangs on. I feel like this is, in a way, training myself to be more resilient and enabling myself to let go more on each successive trip. I enjoy achieving this headspace and I actively seek it on each trip. I am telling you this to show that I practice my psychedelic use with purpose, with a goal in mind, and I work towards it.

I have consumed DMT on quite a number of occasions - mostly my experiences have been sub-breakthrough and relatively unremarkable (to anyone else, that is, they were fascinating to me). Often there were interesting CEVs, usually a nice sense of warmth and togetherness, and they always thoroughly enjoyable experiences. I have used DMT on it's own, but more often than not I use it while already on LSD, as I (personally) find the two experiences complement each other very well (if DMT is the top shelf, the LSD is the stepladder helping you get up). Nobody should combine psychedelics (or any other drug) unless they have done their own research.

In summary, I trip with purpose, I try and build on my meditation in each successive trip, and I consider myself an extremely experienced user of psychedelics who has never yet come up against anything he could not handle - until now?


The LSD come up
So today, in the early afternoon, I was well rested, in my own home, and decided to take 330 micrograms of LSD (my usual 'go-to' dose), and the purpose of my trip was to relax, listen to some music, de-stress and contemplate some things that had been on my mind.

The first part of the trip was uneventful - I came up quickly, I enjoyed dancing around my kitchen with some music in my ears, my mood was exceptionally high - I felt fantastic. At about two hours in, I was tripping very hard and in the peak of the LSD experience, and I sat down to do some meditation.

Instantly I was transported to a familiar headspace - I started feeling a sense of connectedness with the world, and I started seeing some very familiar closed eye visuals that I often associate with this meditative state.

Part of the tapestry on my wall started glowing bright as I focused on the centre of it and I felt little shreds of my ego being picked away, as I so often enjoy when meditating on psychedelics, and my body felt a little bit lighter for each shred which was removed.


The first DMT experience
I had the sense that I was ready for more, and I wanted to try again for that elusive DMT breakthrough experience, which I had been trying hard to achieve for years. I loaded up the bong with 100mg of 50% changa and took it all in two hits.

Now, I will say, if anyone else had been describing this to me, or if I had been reading my own experience elsewhere, I would doubt the legitimacy of it. Even as I type it now, it sounds so bizarre. I can assure you I am trying to be as accurate as possible, and I’m not exaggerating for effect.

I was relatively disappointed that when I opened my eyes after the 2nd hit, I was still in my room. However, my disappointment did not last for long, as the centre of the tapestry on my wall which I had been focused on before smoking the hit became even brighter, extraordinarily so. This bright light grew bigger and formed four corners, and essentially a portion of my wall was replaced by this pure white rectangle which had space behind it, as if it was a door to an entirely white room.

I promptly felt my body be pulled towards the light, and I was consumed by it. My perspective changed and I became aware of my own body now floating in this white room, and I was looking down on my body. Each part of me started to detach and split off - I saw my legs detach, one by one, and then my arms, and they floated away into the nothingness until they were gone.

Eventually, all that was left was my skull, with no torso, and I saw my head split open and my brain slid out. I could see the fine details of the tissue on my brain, and it looked healthily pink. I then watched my brain split in half down the middle, and each part of my brain went flying off into different directions. I was consumed by whiteness for a few moments longer and then eventually I was spat back out onto my sofa, with crazily intense visuals filling my room.

I was absolutely floored by how REAL it was - I still had my sense of self, and I knew I’d taken DMT and LSD, but there I was, quite literally watching parts of my body float away, in full HD vision, as if it was the most ‘ordinary’ thing ever, the same as going to the shop to buy some milk.

I felt pleasant throughout the whole experience, and I was never scared or afraid when I was in the white room. Once I calmed down a bit from the DMT ‘haze’, I became very reflective and intensely in awe of the experience I had just had. I’ve seen lots of things ‘in my head’ before, but never had I seen, clear as day, such a blatant disregard for reality. It made no sense to me that I could view myself having my limbs torn off and my brain split open, but it had just happened. I saw it with my own two eyes. It was clear as anything else I’d ever seen.

I sat for approximately two hours trying to make sense of it (whilst still tripping on LSD), and I considered it an extremely profound experience, and one that was unknown to me. I finally managed to distract myself from the experience for a couple of hours, and got some food and watched some television.

About 4 hours after the initial experience with DMT, and about 6 hours after I took the LSD, I felt fully recovered and recharged from my DMT trip, and I still felt in a very positive mind state. I was very intrigued to know more about what I had just experienced (‘was that a breakthrough?’) and I decided that I would take another round of DMT.


The second DMT experience
I meditated for a while beforehand, and then loaded up 100mg of changa into the bong and managed to take it all in one hit. This is where it all went wrong.

As I was doing a very long, slow, inhale, I was watching the cherry of the changa in the bowl of the bong glow red. I recall this red glow getting brighter and brighter and consuming more of my field of vision as I inhaled. This was already a more intense visual effect than I was usually used to when smoking changa, and I had a good idea that I was in for a heavy ride. I placed the bong down.

The next memory I have is finding myself in a completely white room, again. There was just intense whiteness all over, with intricate patterns that looked vaguely like clocks floating through the air like ticker-tape. I immediately felt an intense panic and fear. Fear like I’ve never felt before. I had no idea who I was, where I was, or what was happening.

Information was coming at me from all angles - the visuals were intense although I cannot remember the exact nature of them. My mind was totally overwhelmed, and I just wanted it to stop, but I was too confused to know even that I had taken DMT. I did not remember taking it. I could not form any thoughts or do anything other than be completely subject to the experience unfolding in front of me.

The fear was absolutely overwhelming. It was the most intense emotion I’ve ever experienced. I was utterly terrified. I kept looking around, trying to find a way out of this white room, and at one point a door appeared, but then was snatched away from me when I got nearer to it. I turned around, looking for another door, which then disappeared again - this kept happening, as soon as I got close to a door, it vanished. Something was mocking me. I felt trapped. Someone had captured me. Had I gone insane?

I eventually became familiar with the thought that I had taken DMT and I had broken through. This induced even more panic - I’d already been ‘trapped’ in this white room for far, far longer than a typical DMT experience lasts. I could’ve sworn that I had been trapped for many hours.

I began to accept that I was trapped here forever. There was no way out. I’d sent myself into a psychosis. I was never going to come down. I started accepting that I would never see life again. I’d never see anyone I knew again. This was it. I was going to die here, in this horrible white room. The sheer horror of it all was unimaginable. I can still feel the panic now as I write this. I’ve never experienced anything like it, or even close to it. It was deeply traumatic.

Eventually I became aware of my own body again, but was not allowed to move it, and I watched my perspective rapidly flip around my body, in 360 degrees of vision, with images of myself folding over on top of each other.

My visual perspective was changing so fast that I could barely even register the changes. It was deeply disorientating, like spinning round very fast on a merry-go-round. First I’d be seeing out of my eyes, then I would be looking down on myself, then I would see several copies of myself side by side, as if I had grown several more pairs of eyes and could see through them all concurrently. At one point my ‘perspective’ flew down into my hand, and then back up out of my torso, stuck in a loop, spinning between different parts of my body like a washing machine.

Eventually I was back in my body (but still confused, I didn’t know who ‘me’ was, yet) and I was subjected to a series of painful hallucinations of my teeth snapping in half. I quite literally felt them break off in my mouth, and I placed my fingers into my mouth and could feel that there were teeth missing. (Of course, my teeth were fine when I sobered up).

Still in the white room, but now in my body, I sat down on the floor - admitting defeat. I would sit here until I died, however long that may be. I hoped it was soon, I had had enough.

Eventually I started to feel like I was in a vaguely familiar place. Details slowly shifted in from the white light and I realised I was somewhere I knew and recognised. It took another minute or two before I realised who I was, and that I was sat in my living room, on the floor.

Curiously, I had started the experience sitting on my sofa, and I have no idea how I came to be sat on my floor. Presumably I had moved around during the experience, but of course I have no memory of this.


Conclusion
I sat there for almost 30 minutes without moving. The residual DMT effects felt like they took forever to wear off. I just wanted to be sober again. I felt like every visual was mocking me. I’d been humiliated by the substance. I wanted it gone, I wanted it out of my body. I wanted what had just happened to have never happened. I was broken.

Writing this now, several hours later, I feel okay, but still deeply confused and quite shocked by what has happened to me. I thought I knew what I was doing. I thought I could handle it. Obviously, I was woefully underprepared. How can one prepare for such a thing? I have been 'training' for years to achieve ego death, and yet when I did, it was an awful, awful, awful experience. The worst I've ever had.

I was absolutely floored by the power of the DMT experience. I had done, in my mind, absolutely everything I could to be ready for it, but it was not even close to enough.

Note: I edited this post around 24 hours after making it, to fix some typographical errors (now that I am sober) and add some formatting to make it easier to read. The material content of the post did not change.
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
Voidmatrix
#2 Posted : 10/20/2021 1:53:05 AM

Surrender and BE free

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To start welcome to the Nexus.

More importantly, you have been heard, and there is support here for you.

DMT always has something new to show you...

Both of those sound like breakthroughs. This post may be helpful for you in understanding the nature of breakthrough experiences. I was sharing on the forum with someone last night that there isn't a clearly delineated line of where a breakthrough begins. It can come in a variety of forms and manners.

To your most pertinent question: Yes, sometimes the experience is just like that. DMT is a wild ride, and more often than not you may return with far more questions than answers. This is probably one of those times for you. The more one can learn to surrender, the more one can navigate and traverse the space of almost any experience, ime. That's not to say you won't still get thrown from time to time. I do too.

Seeing yourself reminds me of my first changa experience. My head, and only my head, floated up through some "cloud" and it split in two and opened. As it opened, a full-body version of myself walked out. There were three of me in that moment and I was all of them with all of their perspectives; the head, the walker, and the watcher seeing it all.

Sanista wrote:
I had the sense that I was definitely ready for more, and I wanted to try again for that elusive DMT breakthrough experience, which I had been trying hard to achieve for years.


Part of me is wondering how much this in particular impacted your trip. In the facilitation I do with others with DMT, I find it common that if your main intent is to breakthrough, you either won't get it, or it'll be a really difficult experience. This is anecdotal however. It seems to be like the idea of Enlightenment; you can't want it in order to reach it. A vicious little paradox. If I may, try loading a breakthrough dose, but as authentically as you can, develop a different intention. See what happens.

How are you feeling presently? What are you doing to integrate?

Again welcome. And as hard as your experience was, I thought the way in which you shared it was beautiful.

One love
Chop Wood: Carry Water


Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Vangoghdream
#3 Posted : 10/20/2021 5:10:20 AM
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Sounds like a wild ride and I can certainly relate. It's hard to say if there is any control of the experience at a certain point. It becomes all encompassing and it can be very hard to let go, navigate or even make any sense of it. I have found that I have had experiences all over the board over the years with no rhyme or reason. I would prepare to the utmost and get hyper-slapped and other times just do it on a whim and have a great time. Never know what you're gonna get, not to sound like Forrest Gump, this is not a box of chocolates.

It can be scary beautiful!! How wonderful is it that we can even experience anything at all. Take it all and accept it all and it becomes a larger piece of work. You can see beauty in pain and you can painfully experience joy. What a weird thing......



 
BongQuixote
#4 Posted : 10/20/2021 10:42:18 AM
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In my experience, combining LSD and DMT are not for the faint of heart. It can get really crazy and you, and everyone around you, will believe you have totally lost your mind. I have had similar experience, with the total and utter terror. Now, I stick with DMT/harmalas by themselves instead of doing that combo. To be fair, combining the two have also resulted in some of the most educational and memorable trips of my life, but there is a price to pay for it.
 
Kitisha
#5 Posted : 10/20/2021 11:36:03 AM

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Im very sorry this happened to you. I never had such a thing happen to me during the few times i smoked dmt. What i would try to do is to turn this traumatic experience, that clearly personally affects you, into a story you can tell yourself and examine with a little bit of detached perspective. This way the traumatic impact of the memory will be lessened. Try to not let the fear embed itself in you.

The trauma aside, this is a very interesting story, thank you for sharing it. It also kinda sounds like you got what you wanted, in a twisted way. You wanted an intense breakthrough experience, and you got it. To me it sounds like you were fighting it, maybe if you surrendered it would have been more merciful. Maybe.

And welcome! Smile
 
Exitwound
#6 Posted : 10/20/2021 11:45:18 AM

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Woah, what a crazy ride. Welcome Smile
From my own experience, DMT can be seemingly random and sometimes very harsh, but other times very loving.

I think that nobody really has the ultimate receipe for mastering trips, but the totall surrendering to the whole spectrum of experiences. I am not sure that entheo-dragon can be ever fully tamed. Set and setting can only help so much, the rest might as well be outside of our control.
Why it happened or will it happen again or not - we all can only offer our "maybes" and theories. No one can tell you that for sure. One thing I can feel from your report, that it must've been very humbling experience and such experiences are often catalysts for some changes in life.
 
downwardsfromzero
#7 Posted : 10/20/2021 1:22:44 PM

Peeing into the abyss

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Hello and welcome - that was a pretty awesome first post (in full awareness of the various nuances of "awe"...)

All I really want to add is that experiences of abject terror can, in the fullness of time, turn out to be quite valuable. In my view, the second experience was possibly a case of 'too much, too soon'.

Just to be sure, is your changa a blend of herbs + DMT + harmala alkaloids? The thing to be aware of is that the harmala alkaloids stay in the body considerably longer than the DMT does, so a second dose some two hours after the first will still be influenced by the remaining harmalas. That says nothing for the subjective effects of course, but the fact that you describe your second white room vision as being perfused with clock-adorned ticker tape has these elements that there is a message about timing.

DMT can be a harsh mistress when it comes to teaching one the irony of grasping for ego loss Very happy




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Sanista
#8 Posted : 10/20/2021 3:41:04 PM

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Firstly, thank you all for your replies. I didn't expect so many and I was really warmed to see the kind reception. I felt a lot better simply posting the experience, and then even more so when reading your replies. Often I find writing something down and taking the time to deal with it in that manner can really help process it, whether it be a psychedelic experience or any other problem in life, and this was definitely the case here.

I've tried to reply to each of you below.

As a small aside, I've edited the original post to add some formatting and fix some typographical errors now I am sober. The post should be easier to read however the content hasn't changed (with a few tiny exceptions of details I remembered or copyedited).

---

Voidmatrix wrote:
Both of those sound like breakthroughs.

Thanks - I read the thread that you referred to and it was interesting to see the different perspectives on what a 'breakthrough' is. I suppose it's not really an overly useful term in some ways, and I was struck by the fact that both my first and second 'breakthroughs' in the report above were completely and entirely different, and that I retained my sense of self in one, and not in the other.

I also found it curious how in the first experience (with the hole in the wall), there was a smooth transition from smoking, to being out of this world, to being back again. I retained memory of the whole event. With the second experience, there was a period of blackout.


Voidmatrix wrote:
Seeing yourself reminds me of my first changa experience. My head, and only my head, floated up through some "cloud" and it split in two and opened. As it opened, a full-body version of myself walked out. There were three of me in that moment and I was all of them with all of their perspectives; the head, the walker, and the watcher seeing it all.

It's really nice to hear that similar experiences do occur - shortly after it happened I began questioning whether I'd in fact made the whole thing up! It's quite hard to combine seeing something so out of the ordinary with a lifetime of reality.


Voidmatrix wrote:
If I may, try loading a breakthrough dose, but as authentically as you can, develop a different intention. See what happens.
How are you feeling presently? What are you doing to integrate?

That's an interesting idea, and I will certainly try it. You are right that I was absolutely determined to breakthrough on the second (unpleasant) experience, and I now realise that perhaps embarking on the second experience at all was a mistake, but maybe more so after such an intense first experience.

Today I have been taking part in my normal life, I've been to some friends and I generally feel quite positive. The rawness of the experience has faded away somewhat, however it remained the last thing I thought about when I fell asleep, and the first I thought about when I awoke. It's been in my head all day, but I am starting to remember it slightly more with a sense of 'awe' rather than 'trauma' as the freshness of the pain has faded. I am still absolutely struck by the sheer power of the mind, when enabled by DMT.

---

Vangoghdream wrote:
How wonderful is it that we can even experience anything at all. Take it all and accept it all and it becomes a larger piece of work. You can see beauty in pain and you can painfully experience joy.


This is beautiful. Experience is extremely valuable and I now think that, over time, I will come to treasure this one. It's something that very few of us in this world (although a lot of us on this forum) will ever had the chance to see or feel, and I do feel grateful for that privilege. I feel like I've pushed my boundaries, and hopefully I can gain something from it.

---

BongQuixote wrote:
In my experience, combining LSD and DMT are not for the faint of heart. It can get really crazy and you, and everyone around you, will believe you have totally lost your mind. I have had similar experience, with the total and utter terror.


Thanks for this advice and I'm sorry to hear about your similar troubles. As I stated above, I'd never had an issue using LSD and DMT together before, although I'd always kept the DMT dose (often unintentionally) below that of a breakthrough experience. When I am ready for my next DMT experience, I will be sure to do it without the LSD, at least for now.

---

Kitisha wrote:
To me it sounds like you were fighting it, maybe if you surrendered it would have been more merciful. Maybe.


I think you are absolutely correct, every part of me was fighting the experience and upon reflection I think that if I had not done so, then I would've been in sheer joy with the beauty of the visuals. Even though I was in pain, I do remember the sheer clarity of it all to be breathtaking and I really hope I can see it again soon, without the fear.

---

Exitwound wrote:
One thing I can feel from your report, that it must've been very humbling experience and such experiences are often catalysts for some changes in life.


I think you are right. I've been doing psychedelics for quite a while now, and I had truly believed that nothing would surprise me any more. I would take very high doses of LSD without giving too much thought to it, and I successfully dealt with them on each occasion. This was, perhaps, the humbling that I needed, to remind me that this stuff is no joke.

---

downwardsfromzero wrote:
That says nothing for the subjective effects of course, but the fact that you describe your second white room vision as being perfused with clock-adorned ticker tape has these elements that there is a message about timing.


This is interesting - thanks - funnily enough it had actually not occurred to me! It does make a lot of sense, the fact that the visuals were of clock-like shapes and also that I was intensely aware of the fact that time had seemingly ceased to pass while I was 'up there'. I've never been a huge believer in subliminal messaging, but if I ever saw one, I think this would be it.
 
Icyseeker
#9 Posted : 10/20/2021 5:00:54 PM

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First of all welcome. Secondly, wow both trips sound intense. I have a question based on your verbiage. When you say that you were in a white room does that mean that the background was fully white or did you get the sense that its was a room in the structural sense?

Your first trip reminded me of a painting that was done by Alex Grey (presumably with the same inspiration). Here is a link: https://www.alexgrey.com..._wounded_healer_panel_1 . It sounds like you will get a lot out of this trip and hopefully you will be able to integrate it well.

I don't have much to say about the second trip as it feels like perhaps it was a response to you loading up to soon after your first trip. But there are probably lessons from the molecule in this trip as well.

Anyway welcome to the Nexus.
May wisdom permeate through your life.

"The only past which endures lies wordlessly within you." God Emperor Leto ii
 
Sanista
#10 Posted : 10/20/2021 5:15:16 PM

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Thanks for that painting, Icyseeker. I do really relate to it - the colours were different (white not black) and I didn't have the floating aura around my body but nonetheless it really does convey the spirit of the experience. I guess it's worth recognising that while the trip was unique to me, a similar sort of occurrence has probably been experienced by other travellers.

As for your question: it's an interesting one - I had not considered whether it was a room or not, I just suppose that I am very used to describing any given area that is not outdoors as a room.

Upon reflection, they only reason I used that word was because of the 'doorway' of white light that I used to enter it. In both trips, the 'white room' was actually more like an endless space, without clearly defined walls or boundaries. For all I know, the whiteness was simply the representation of nothingness, and this seems more likely when I try to think of it outside of normal human constructs.

Thanks for the thought provoking reply!
 
PsilOutsider
#11 Posted : 10/21/2021 12:05:57 AM

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First of all, welcome Sanista.

I have read the entire post carefully, but unfortunately I have little time and I will not be able to give more than a few quick answers, but it has been very interesting and I have identified with many parts

Sanista wrote:
As I've got more experienced with psychedelics over the years, I've seen common themes emerge between my trips, and I'm often able to transport myself back to similar mindsets which seem to build on each trip. For example, I often return to a place in my mind that I have experienced on both LSD and DMT, and this place feels a bit like a 'spiritual gateway' for me - when I have reached this place in my head, on any given trip, I know that my soul is open and receptive, and I often feel my ego starting to shred away.


I completely identify with you here, many times people ask me about the difference between substances, and what effects they have, and it is difficult for me to explain to them that in the end they all interact with your brain, that it is unique, and that there are "different paths to roma ", different entrances to states of consciousness and concrete chains of thought.

Sanista wrote:
The next memory I have is finding myself in a completely white room, again. There was just intense whiteness all over, with intricate patterns that looked vaguely like clocks floating through the air like ticker-tape. I immediately felt an intense panic and fear. Fear like I’ve never felt before. I had no idea who I was, where I was, or what was happening.

Sanista wrote:
The fear was absolutely overwhelming. It was the most intense emotion I’ve ever experienced. I was utterly terrified.

Sanista wrote:
How can one prepare for such a thing? I have been 'training' for years to achieve ego death, and yet when I did, it was an awful, awful, awful experience. The worst I've ever had.


About this, obviously, I will speak from my experience because it is the only one I have, I do not know how it will be for the rest:
In my experience I can tell you that, unfortunately, one cannot prepare for this, an ego death has, as a characteristic, experiencing extreme states, normally the opposites in any facet of life, before or after the most intense pleasure of your life, comes the most intense fear and pain of your life. You cannot prepare to experience the worst fear of your life, if you did, it would cease to be.
It sounds hopeless, and I really don't wish it to anyone, but it is in the death of the ego that the illusion of duality begins to break down, and the extremely good and extremely bad becomes only intensity, freely interpretable, pleasant and unpleasant at same time (it is the sum of all the emotions of all things, now you are no longer a drop, you experience the ocean), and for that reason among others it is a necessary point to go through.

The only thing I can tell you here is, nothing happens, I think it is a point that we have all passed, or will pass, and it is not bad perse, once you settle in those states you will have made a really big leap in your inner world.

It is said that no tree can grow to heaven unless its roots reach hell. C.G. Jung
 
Sanista
#12 Posted : 10/21/2021 10:05:38 AM

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Thanks for your thoughtful reply, PsilOutsider.

PsilOutsider wrote:
I completely identify with you here, many times people ask me about the difference between substances, and what effects they have, and it is difficult for me to explain to them that in the end they all interact with your brain, that it is unique, and that there are "different paths to roma ", different entrances to states of consciousness and concrete chains of thought.

You phrased this beautifully, and I believe it to be entirely accurate. There is a certain type of CEV that I only see when meditating on psychedelics, but the type of psychedelic I used is irrelevant - it's the same visuals and headspace regardless. I used to believe that different psychedelics have very different visual characteristics, but now believe that with the correct mindset and meditation that any tool can be used to reach the same space - although some, such as DMT, will clearly get you there easier than others.

PsilOutsider wrote:
The only thing I can tell you here is, nothing happens, I think it is a point that we have all passed, or will pass, and it is not bad perse, once you settle in those states you will have made a really big leap in your inner world.

I really hope so, and I aspire to reach that stage. If I could relive the trip again, I hope that I would not panic, and I could enjoy it for what it is. I simply was not prepared, but maybe now I am closer to being so.
 
Voidmatrix
#13 Posted : 10/21/2021 10:58:30 PM

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Sanista wrote:
I was struck by the fact that both my first and second 'breakthroughs' in the report above were completely and entirely different, and that I retained my sense of self in one, and not in the other.

I also found it curious how in the first experience (with the hole in the wall), there was a smooth transition from smoking, to being out of this world, to being back again. I retained memory of the whole event. With the second experience, there was a period of blackout.


Even the expectation for it to be a similar experience to past experiences should probably be put aside. "DMT always has something new to show you." I say that quite often here. I find blacking out on DMT happens for two primary reasons; too much DMT inhaled, or your system is overstimulated so shuts down.

Sanista wrote:
That's an interesting idea, and I will certainly try it. You are right that I was absolutely determined to breakthrough on the second (unpleasant) experience, and I now realise that perhaps embarking on the second experience at all was a mistake, but maybe more so after such an intense first experience.

Today I have been taking part in my normal life, I've been to some friends and I generally feel quite positive. The rawness of the experience has faded away somewhat, however it remained the last thing I thought about when I fell asleep, and the first I thought about when I awoke. It's been in my head all day, but I am starting to remember it slightly more with a sense of 'awe' rather than 'trauma' as the freshness of the pain has faded. I am still absolutely struck by the sheer power of the mind, when enabled by DMT.


We live and learn. DMT can be harsh, but it can also be forgiving.

And that's good. Chop wood, carry water while integrating the experience. Regardless of what we contact, we still come back to our pragmatic reality and need to sustain that. That being said, I'll leave you with a little food for thought: No one knows (though they may have convictions) about whether this is just a byproduct of our own minds with the catalyst of DMT or if we are really reaching something beyond this sphere of existence. Love

One love
Chop Wood: Carry Water


Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Exitwound
#14 Posted : 10/22/2021 9:03:53 AM

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PsilOutsider wrote:

In my experience I can tell you that, unfortunately, one cannot prepare for this, an ego death has, as a characteristic, experiencing extreme states, normally the opposites in any facet of life, before or after the most intense pleasure of your life, comes the most intense fear and pain of your life. You cannot prepare to experience the worst fear of your life, if you did, it would cease to be.
It sounds hopeless, and I really don't wish it to anyone, but it is in the death of the ego that the illusion of duality begins to break down, and the extremely good and extremely bad becomes only intensity, freely interpretable, pleasant and unpleasant at same time (it is the sum of all the emotions of all things, now you are no longer a drop, you experience the ocean), and for that reason among others it is a necessary point to go through.

The only thing I can tell you here is, nothing happens, I think it is a point that we have all passed, or will pass, and it is not bad perse, once you settle in those states you will have made a really big leap in your inner world.

It is said that no tree can grow to heaven unless its roots reach hell. C.G. Jung


Quoting this for more visibility, nicely written and said Smile
 
Vangoghdream
#15 Posted : 10/22/2021 4:15:08 PM
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Exitwound wrote:
PsilOutsider wrote:

In my experience I can tell you that, unfortunately, one cannot prepare for this, an ego death has, as a characteristic, experiencing extreme states, normally the opposites in any facet of life, before or after the most intense pleasure of your life, comes the most intense fear and pain of your life. You cannot prepare to experience the worst fear of your life, if you did, it would cease to be.
It sounds hopeless, and I really don't wish it to anyone, but it is in the death of the ego that the illusion of duality begins to break down, and the extremely good and extremely bad becomes only intensity, freely interpretable, pleasant and unpleasant at same time (it is the sum of all the emotions of all things, now you are no longer a drop, you experience the ocean), and for that reason among others it is a necessary point to go through.

The only thing I can tell you here is, nothing happens, I think it is a point that we have all passed, or will pass, and it is not bad perse, once you settle in those states you will have made a really big leap in your inner world.

It is said that no tree can grow to heaven unless its roots reach hell. C.G. Jung


Quoting this for more visibility, nicely written and said Smile


I feel exactly the same way! Very well written and something I feel that every psychonaut should read. If you read this before a DMT trip in can seem convoluted, after a harrowing experience it is clear as a bell. I don't wish a difficult experience on anyone but it is the other side, it is the place where the rubber meets the road, where you begin to traverse your own inner worlds in a way that is participatory rather than forced. Perceptions change here, your world becomes unraveled and the strings of your life are strewn about all around you.

I found myself in a place of indifference as of late. Like watching my daughter skin her knee on the playground. I always first feel the need to rush in administer daddy first aid, I stop myself and realize the her need to have that experience. She looks back at me to see if I am coming to aid her. When she sees that I am not she stands herself up, brushes her knee off (when I was a kid, we called this rubbing some dirt in it) and go back to playing. If I was to rush in every time my kiddo had a hard time I take away her experience. My indifference is not that I don't care, I do very much, the indifference is wise enough to know that I would harm her development if I was to rush in every time she had a problem in life.

I feel like whatever it is in hyperspace looks at me the same way. I feel like it watches me go through my pain and I feel the gaze of it all. I look around for help and see that it could help but does not. That makes me stand back up, rub some dirt in it and go on. Life is hard, psychedelic experiences can be hard. In all my experiences I always felt like something was watching on in loving indifference, allowing me to have it all, not sheltering me from pain. I am learning to apply this into my life more and more but have some way to go with it yet. It feels good to write these words and I feel a great sense of validation by reading the words of others on the nexus. Unbelievably intelligent people here!!
 
Voidmatrix
#16 Posted : 10/23/2021 2:33:35 AM

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Vangoghdream wrote:
Exitwound wrote:
PsilOutsider wrote:

In my experience I can tell you that, unfortunately, one cannot prepare for this, an ego death has, as a characteristic, experiencing extreme states, normally the opposites in any facet of life, before or after the most intense pleasure of your life, comes the most intense fear and pain of your life. You cannot prepare to experience the worst fear of your life, if you did, it would cease to be.
It sounds hopeless, and I really don't wish it to anyone, but it is in the death of the ego that the illusion of duality begins to break down, and the extremely good and extremely bad becomes only intensity, freely interpretable, pleasant and unpleasant at same time (it is the sum of all the emotions of all things, now you are no longer a drop, you experience the ocean), and for that reason among others it is a necessary point to go through.

The only thing I can tell you here is, nothing happens, I think it is a point that we have all passed, or will pass, and it is not bad perse, once you settle in those states you will have made a really big leap in your inner world.

It is said that no tree can grow to heaven unless its roots reach hell. C.G. Jung


Quoting this for more visibility, nicely written and said Smile


I feel exactly the same way! Very well written and something I feel that every psychonaut should read. If you read this before a DMT trip in can seem convoluted, after a harrowing experience it is clear as a bell. I don't wish a difficult experience on anyone but it is the other side, it is the place where the rubber meets the road, where you begin to traverse your own inner worlds in a way that is participatory rather than forced. Perceptions change here, your world becomes unraveled and the strings of your life are strewn about all around you.

I found myself in a place of indifference as of late. Like watching my daughter skin her knee on the playground. I always first feel the need to rush in administer daddy first aid, I stop myself and realize the her need to have that experience. She looks back at me to see if I am coming to aid her. When she sees that I am not she stands herself up, brushes her knee off (when I was a kid, we called this rubbing some dirt in it) and go back to playing. If I was to rush in every time my kiddo had a hard time I take away her experience. My indifference is not that I don't care, I do very much, the indifference is wise enough to know that I would harm her development if I was to rush in every time she had a problem in life.

I feel like whatever it is in hyperspace looks at me the same way. I feel like it watches me go through my pain and I feel the gaze of it all. I look around for help and see that it could help but does not. That makes me stand back up, rub some dirt in it and go on. Life is hard, psychedelic experiences can be hard. In all my experiences I always felt like something was watching on in loving indifference, allowing me to have it all, not sheltering me from pain. I am learning to apply this into my life more and more but have some way to go with it yet. It feels good to write these words and I feel a great sense of validation by reading the words of others on the nexus. Unbelievably intelligent people here!!


So many nails being hit on the proverbial head here! Love it! Love

Ego death, in my perspective, is perfect paradox, entailing and encompassing a great deal of what has already been stated here. It's pure being and existence that penetrates and transcends usual thought structures. As such it is both pleasurable and terrifying, desired and feared, inner and outer worlds, order and chaos, etc. The sum total of existence condensed to an infinite point inside the individual.

I feel the indifference note. I see indifference in two manners; apathetic indifference (indifferent due to not caring) and mindful indifference (centered and focused state of indifference where attention is within the given moment).

Thank you all. This is really beautiful.

Love

One love
Chop Wood: Carry Water


Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
highwire
#17 Posted : 10/23/2021 4:31:36 AM

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There's a lot of beautiful insight in this thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed. I won't ramble too much, because all I can really do is echo what has already been said.

The most painful trips I've had, have also been the most loving experiences of my life. They dumped undeniable truths and excruciating tests into my life and left me to heal/grow. And so I grew in ways that I never thought I was capable of.

I've had absolute terror rise up during powerful experiences. I've felt like all of the qualities of a trip, along with my mind, and my surroundings were mocking me. I've also had beautiful and harrowing DMT hits in the same night.

You're not alone in this. And I believe you will find beauty in the wake of this pain.
"Love alone can turn thistles into daffodils. So no dogma for me, thanks, I had my fill." ~ Deca
 
Sanista
#18 Posted : 10/23/2021 6:14:13 PM

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I'm really grateful for all of your responses and replies. I won't respond individually to each of them - I don't think I have anything more to add than has already been said by others.

The points made above have really helped me reflect more positively on this experience. Now - 4 days later - I feel grateful that it happened. I do not regret it anymore. When I posted this thread I was absolutely desperate, I was shaken, and in the initial aftermath I was thinking that I would potentially never take DMT again.

While the fear was very real, I have also been able to remember the sheer beauty of the world I was in, and recognise that is was beautiful. The fact I could experience it at all was a wonderful thing, and it was only tainted by my own inability to cope. Do I think I should've been able to cope? No. I was unprepared, as posts made above point out was inevitable. However, I think that I am now several steps closer to being able to remain calm in such a state. If I was to end up in a similar foreign realm again, I do truly believe I would have a fighting chance of keeping myself grounded and being able to enjoy it for what it is, rather than fighting it.

Thank you again to all who have contributed. Some really beautiful points have been made and I feel honoured to have gained the support of this lovely community.
 
Yneffable
#19 Posted : 12/2/2021 5:35:34 PM

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Hello Tegridy and all,

I wanted to thank you for all the posts I read here.
I find myself in your experience. My first time was revolutionary when I did not expect it. I experienced the egodeath and I was seized with an absolute terror, I think like the one you describe (and to think about it, overwhelms me).
About 24 hours later, the miracle happened. Suddenly I was no longer anxious. I have made extraordinary changes in my life since that day.
This experience was extremely traumatic and in no time it became the one that I still cherish the most today.

I enjoyed reading all of you very much. And I find it amazing to read that traumatic experiences are quickly turned into treasures.
 
 
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