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Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO] Options
 
_Trip_
#461 Posted : 11/30/2021 12:54:24 AM

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Although I mentioned this in another post I thought it was more appropriate to post it here.

I've been doing the Cielo Tek for a few extractions now but usually using green skin layer only. I've done multiple species and always got nice crystals no goo.

I've been running a few experiments on a Bridgesii I have, that has been very consistent.

I have found when using green skin layer only (microwaves/ cold pulls options) I can yield 3.4% mescaline citrate (or 2.12% HCL equivalent).

When using green skin, wax and spines (no core or white pulp) yields decrease to .725%-1.18% (or .45%-.75% HCL equivalent). Each extraction varies a bit more when compared to green skin only.

When using the inner core and white pulp only I have managed to yield .465% (or .31% HCL) so 13.8% 14.6% compared to green skin layer only.

Whole cacti I have yet to do on this Bridgesii but obviously there would be a big decrease in yield compared to green skin only.

If you want to maximize your extractions and decrease the amount of material you're using (such as EA) then the green layer is your best bet. It seems the wax and spines are useless, all they do is waste material, thus lowering yields. However, removing the wax layer and spines is a bit more work.

Now what is interesting is the inner layer appears to contain 13.8% 14.6% approx of the green skin. I know such discussions are not new on nexus and this information is more or less known. But the crystals from the inner pulp/ core only, even at room temperature EA pulls, come out much cleaner than when extracting from the green layer, almost white. I would bet with ice cold pulls possibly the whitest pulls you can get.

So if you want to save on materials consider removing the spines and wax. The inner core/pulp is worth extracting from, just don't expect big yields as it'll only yield approx 13.8% 14.6% by weight of the green layer.
I think for myself I'll continue to use the green layer only and put a side the white pulp/ core to extract separately for a cleaner purer product (in appearance anyway).



Edit:
I should note this is obviously only one test from one species and it would likely vary but it's a good start point to log.

If cacti isn't a potent strain white pulp layer may not be worth the effort and materials for an extraction.

Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.



 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
Loveall
#462 Posted : 11/30/2021 1:15:18 AM

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Excellent info _Trip__. Added to the wiki entry (consumable section).
πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š Mescaline CIELO TEK πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’šDMT salt e-juice HIELO TEKπŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEKπŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š
 
_Trip_
#463 Posted : 11/30/2021 1:18:34 AM

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Hopefully others report similar results.

I should add when using the white inner core/pulp only the EA pulls are very clean in comparison which makes sense why the end result appears purer in color. There's simply just less impurities.
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.



 
Grey Fox
#464 Posted : 11/30/2021 2:26:26 AM

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_Trip_ I'm wondering what your total yield was from the white flesh and core vs the green flesh? 13.8% sounds like a small amount... but there is much more white flesh than green flesh. I would imagine that the yield would be significant, even though the concentration is lower.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
Cheelin
#465 Posted : 11/30/2021 3:09:17 AM

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Good info _Trip_!

Makes sense that without the pigments and other molecules extracted along with the skin alkaloids, the inner material can produce β€œcleaner” crystals.

I like your idea about running green and white separately. I look forward to more updates on your yield and quality results with the white parts, and whether there is any difference in the tripping experience between the products of the green and white materials.
 
_Trip_
#466 Posted : 11/30/2021 10:32:37 AM

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Grey Fox wrote:
_Trip_ I'm wondering what your total yield was from the white flesh and core vs the green flesh? 13.8% sounds like a small amount... but there is much more white flesh than green flesh. I would imagine that the yield would be significant, even though the concentration is lower.


So for the same cacti....
Green Flesh 3.4% per 100g (2.12% HCL equivalent)
White Flesh .495% per 100g (.31% HCL equivalent)

So if you do the calculation off that it should give you an idea. Sorry I miscalculated it's 14.6% when comparing weight to weight.

If your asking however what the dried ratio's are with say 1 foot of cacti-green vs white then it is roughly double (white flesh:green flesh=2:1). In fact almost exactly double. The white pulp dries out a surprising amount.

So to put it in perspective, lets say 4 foot of Bridgesii gets 100g (dried) of green skin, you'd therefore get 200g (dried) of white pulp/core. Then your total yield would be 4.39g of Mescaline Citrate (or 2.72g HCL equivalent).

Cheelin I would imagine the trip wouldn't be any different although you never know. But it will be more interesting if others find similar results. I should note this though, the Mescaline citrate in the EA from the white pulp was not as sticky it floated around more than the mescaline in the EA jar from the green flesh (the stickiness of the crystals could be an impurity thing maybe???)
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.



 
Cheelin
#467 Posted : 11/30/2021 11:44:38 AM

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From a pure mescaline POV, there shouldn’t be any differences. I’m just wondering if there are differences attributable to other molecules that get extracted from the green vs white parts.
 
Loveall
#468 Posted : 11/30/2021 1:45:15 PM

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If the off color and stickiness of the xtals is unwanted, maybe an EA defat of the outer skin powder could be worth doing. Also there is the brine wash idea mentioned before.

I for one have not noticed any difference in effects if the color is not fully white and/or if the xtals has some tackiness in the more straightforward/simple extraction. The only reason I would add this extra steps is if there is a more difficult cactus source that gives goo with the simpler TEK.
πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š Mescaline CIELO TEK πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’šDMT salt e-juice HIELO TEKπŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEKπŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š
 
Loveall
#469 Posted : 11/30/2021 1:48:41 PM

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Cheelin wrote:
From a pure mescaline POV, there shouldn’t be any differences. I’m just wondering if there are differences attributable to other molecules that get extracted from the green vs white parts.


Benzyme (solaris analytical) can analyse xtals from each source and give an answer for a minimal fee. It's easy to send out a sample for anyone who does a separate extraction and wants to have it analyzed.
πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š Mescaline CIELO TEK πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’šDMT salt e-juice HIELO TEKπŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEKπŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š
 
Cheelin
#470 Posted : 11/30/2021 2:27:23 PM

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Thanks Loveall.

For now, I’ll focus on trying to find the best way to get those pretty white needles in my filter, with the tek as already specified. I have started a 4-way side-by-side (w/wo microwave, w/wo chilling), using 3 powder sources, so 12 runs. I’ll post results here, if i don’t screw it up too badly.

Re: EA defatting of outer green, what’s the general approach?

Re: Sending samples, how safe is that? Or, how does one limit risk?

Thanks
 
Loveall
#471 Posted : 11/30/2021 5:01:50 PM

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Cheelin wrote:
Thanks Loveall.

For now, I’ll focus on trying to find the best way to get those pretty white needles in my filter, with the tek as already specified. I have started a 4-way side-by-side (w/wo microwave, w/wo chilling), using 3 powder sources, so 12 runs. I’ll post results here, if i don’t screw it up too badly.

Re: EA defatting of outer green, what’s the general approach?

Re: Sending samples, how safe is that? Or, how does one limit risk?

Thanks


EA defat: Before making the alkaline paste, soak ground powder in EA and decant until EA color doesn't change significantly. Dry off EA. If powder clumps up grind again before starting normal process. Would be experimental, so issues could arise. On the other hand, a lot of junk would be removed.

Sending samples: I think it is pretty safe and have used it several times. But that is just my opinion. I don't think samples in the <.1g range inside a plain letter are an issue.
πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š Mescaline CIELO TEK πŸ’šπŸŒ΅πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’šDMT salt e-juice HIELO TEKπŸ’šπŸŒ³πŸ’š
πŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š Salvinorin Chilled Acetone with IPA and Naphtha re-X TEKπŸ’šπŸƒπŸ’š
 
Cheelin
#472 Posted : 11/30/2021 6:08:07 PM

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Thx Loveall, I will eventually use both pieces of info.
 
shroombee
#473 Posted : 11/30/2021 9:09:32 PM

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In addition to the EA pre-wash, consider pre-washing with cold anhydrous acetone or cold anhydrous IPA. I've always wanted to do that experiment but haven't found the time.
 
_Trip_
#474 Posted : 11/30/2021 10:25:15 PM

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Loveall wrote:
If the off color and stickiness of the xtals is unwanted, maybe an EA defat of the outer skin powder could be worth doing. Also there is the brine wash idea mentioned before.

I for one have not noticed any difference in effects if the color is not fully white and/or if the xtals has some tackiness in the more straightforward/simple extraction. The only reason I would add this extra steps is if there is a more difficult cactus source that gives goo with the simpler TEK.


I personally don't think stickiness or off color is an issue and would agree with Loveall that there has been no noticeable difference.
I carefully decant (then dissolve the crystals in water and evaporate) instead of filtering on the last step so the stickiness of the crystals helps this process when decanting.
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.



 
Cheelin
#475 Posted : 11/30/2021 10:30:54 PM

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Thanks Shroombee, the good ole cannabis winterization tek, any particular order of EA and cold everclear/ipa/acetone?
 
Cheelin
#476 Posted : 11/30/2021 10:37:21 PM

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_Trip_, i haven’t had many crystals big enuff to require filtering yet, so my process has been just like you said. But i’m shooting for beautiful, β€œdry”, white needles, if for no other reason than to know i can do it. Gonna keep pluggin till i get there, LOL.
 
_Trip_
#477 Posted : 11/30/2021 11:00:00 PM

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Cheelin wrote:
_Trip_, i haven’t had many crystals big enuff to require filtering yet, so my process has been just like you said. But i’m shooting for beautiful, β€œdry”, white needles, if for no other reason than to know i can do it. Gonna keep pluggin till i get there, LOL.


I think its in the Tek and Loveall has said this a few times now, after you filter the EA and it's nice and clear use less citric acid and wait a longer time. This causes bigger crystals to form. Ice cold pulls yield nicer colored crystals.
You could try drying the solvent with de-icier Cacl2 after the pulls and first filter (but before adding citric acid) usually gets rid of some gunk and for memory preliminary tests showed it didn't affect yields. Loveall might be able to give more information on this point.


However, if you are decanting as I do then use (distilled) H2O to dissolve the crystals and evaporate it with a fan in a cool environment. It takes a lot longer than using a heat source to evaporate the H2O but it usually forms larger crystals. Its worth a try. Personally I'm indifferent about the crystal size as long as its a good end result.
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.



 
Grey Fox
#478 Posted : 12/1/2021 1:35:24 AM

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_Trip_ how thick were your cuttings? That seems like such a small amount of white material to green material. In post #461 you said that you extracted "the inner core and white pulp". The green flesh is just a thin band along the edge of the cactus. All of the material inside of that thin band weighed a 2 to 1 ratio with the band?
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
_Trip_
#479 Posted : 12/1/2021 1:54:29 AM

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I was surprised too, I'm guessing the white pulp is mostly water.

The only explanation may be this, unlike the green layer which I dehydrated indoors in a dehydrator, the white layer I dehydrated outdoors for this test. So unless birds got to it, my calculations should be accurate. I'm quite sure not a single piece was touched by anything when dried outdoors. I can't imagine a bird or anything eating it.

Even in a dehydrator the white pulp takes a significant amount of time longer to dehydrate compared to the green layer, even when cut to the same size lengths and widths. Meaning the cacti stores a lot more water in this layer (which makes sense). So, 2:1 doesn't surprise me.

I would however, encourage anyone to conduct their own tests to see if similar results occur.
Disclaimer: All my posts are of total fiction.



 
Cheelin
#480 Posted : 12/1/2021 2:26:32 AM

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Thanks _Trip_, yeah I’ve read this thread carefully probably 6-7 times. Done the basic tek, the microwave option, the microwave option + chilling, with Loveall’s passive salting, with Shroombee’s stir & dump, and still nothing to write home about in the filter.. but significant sticky crystals in the pyrex after warm water wash-evap.

Today, I completed 3 full runs, salted 3 runs after 24 hr chilling, and did 3 partials that are cooling which i’ll salt tomorrow. I’ll do 3 more complete runs tomorrow, as well. All 12 25g runs (4 process variations x 3 diff source materials) will be left to crystalize using Loveall's passive salting approach. I’ve done them very precisely, and will describe in detail my process when the dry yields are available. If the material has actives, maybe you guys can help me identify why I’m not getting needles in my filter, if that turns out to be the case..
 
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