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Journal: 50 Sublingual HPBCD DMT Ayahuasca journeys over a years time Options
 
downwardsfromzero
#101 Posted : 8/2/2021 1:44:25 AM

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Here's a post in the welcome area specifically in relation to this thread.

It seems necessary, and important for harm reduction, to emphasize that the dose of THH should be started low (150mg or less) and worked up towards an optimum level which will vary from person to person. Not everyone has the same constitution as ava69.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 

Psychedelic news, articles, interviews and art from the DMT-Nexus and other sources.
 
GLTASN
#102 Posted : 8/3/2021 9:32:46 PM

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Ava69,
Got my new thh in and did a blacklight test. At first I thought it looked green ish but after comparing all 3 versions of thh I have I'm quite surprised. The thh that has been mentioned here as pos not genuine and is lt brown in color is the smear at 6 0clock. The newest sample from the European Co.( ordered hcl but sure I got freebase as its a wt powder) is the 11 o'clock smear and my thh from the people who don't exist( yellow hcl looking powder) is the smear at 2 o'clock with a very yellow green color under blacklight. What do you think?
GLTASN attached the following image(s):
20210803_122435.jpg (1,880kb) downloaded 223 time(s).
"It may be that my role in the universe is, to question my role in the universe."
 
shroombee
#103 Posted : 8/3/2021 10:19:39 PM

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Some observations with regards to the Liftmode THH:

I've tested the THH freebase and it glows the same as my harmine freebase from another vendor - a greenish color. Possibly indicating both are not 100% pure. I read here and somewhere else that a small amount of harmaline will cause harmine to glow yellowish green rather than blue.

So I assume the THH also has some harmaline impurities. Perhaps some THH converted back. That doesn't mean the THH is too impure to be useful for our purposes. It just means there are some impurities.

I've taken 200 mg of the Liftmode THH (as recently as this past weekend with mescaline). If the Liftmode THH had any appreciable harmaline I think 200 mg mixed THH/harmaline would make me drowsy, nauseous, etc.

Also, the Liftmode THH comes with a certificate of analysis indicating 99+% purity. Do we suspect it could be fake? Check out the About Us on the Liftmode website. They seem to be a professional, legit company. Not one of the smaller players extracting harmalas in the garage and selling on a hand-coded HTML website.

As far as the brown color and the difference between blue/green glow, perhaps Liftmode manufactures their THH differently from how we manufacture ours using zinc, thus accounting for the difference? I don't know anything about chemistry to conjecture further on this point.

Disclaimer: I don't have any association with Liftmode. And if my writing seems too direct, it's just because I'm in a hurry and want to get the info out for folks without much softening of my writing. No angst is intended. Smile
 
GLTASN
#104 Posted : 8/3/2021 11:04:49 PM

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Shroombee, thanks for the time and advice. I've taken the liftmode 3x at 250mg and 300mgs. Deff didn't get tired or nauseous until I added harmine(was sold as harmine fb). I feel as you do that it's legit though not a true 100% but satisfactoryfor our needs. I will add my reports to this thread as they happen, thanks again.

Ava69, when converting harmaline to thh with zinc dust should I start with hcl or fb? Thanks 9nce again!
"It may be that my role in the universe is, to question my role in the universe."
 
starway7
#105 Posted : 8/3/2021 11:46:40 PM

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GLTASN wrote:
Shroombee, thanks for the time and advice. I've taken the liftmode 3x at 250mg and 300mgs. Deff didn't get tired or nauseous until I added harmine(was sold as harmine fb). I feel as you do that it's legit though not a true 100% but satisfactoryfor our needs. I will add my reports to this thread as they happen, thanks again.

Ava69, when converting harmaline to thh with zinc dust should I start with hcl or fb? Thanks 9nce again!



Gltasn...I also have the lift mode THH..and it doesnt pass the blacklight test!

Can you test your THH under blacklight? [i desolved mine in a little white vinegar]

It doesnt glow blue under blacklight ..it glows mostly yellow with green tint...?

Is your LM thh..a tan colored powder? like mine is in the container?

I didnt know before ordering it....I believe this comes from ..CHINA !! and i suspicion its purity...
 
starway7
#106 Posted : 8/3/2021 11:54:13 PM

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GLTASN wrote:
Ava69,
Got my new thh in and did a blacklight test. At first I thought it looked green ish but after comparing all 3 versions of thh I have I'm quite surprised. The thh that has been mentioned here as pos not genuine and is lt brown in color is the smear at 6 0clock. The newest sample from the European Co.( ordered hcl but sure I got freebase as its a wt powder) is the 11 o'clock smear and my thh from the people who don't exist( yellow hcl looking powder) is the smear at 2 o'clock with a very yellow green color under blacklight. What do you think?



same as my lift mode thh ...yellow green??

I think it may be a product of CHINA! need i say more...
 
starway7
#107 Posted : 8/4/2021 2:20:52 AM

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ava69 wrote:
Interesting....thanks for sharing Starway7. Try wetting with water instead of vinegar and also report back, then smear on a plate under blacklight. I wonder how they can make it so cheaply, it's extremely cheap...the labor alone is a lot to produce even for personal use. I also wonder if China is somehow making it now as well. It would not surprise me.


I sent a photo in an older post of the lift mode ..[cirtificate of analysis] and it says..

.material lot number 20022401 ...country og origin...CHINA!

distributed out a a company in usa Chicago...they told me if not satisfied i could get a refund!and they didnt nesseserily need a return of product...

I might do that?

Also this stuff is not that cheap... its..70 dollars for 5 grams of brown powder? that isnt what it says it is...possibly because of improper storage?

Also being produced in CHINA ... doesnt make me feel to secure....because if their product harmed anyone...its too bad.... they will NEVER!..admit responsibility and there for NEVER be held responsible!

So it pays.. to research compleatly before ordering anything...




starway7 attached the following image(s):
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DSC00039.JPG (2,708kb) downloaded 169 time(s).
 
Voidmatrix
#108 Posted : 8/4/2021 3:17:19 AM

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I made a changa blend using the Liftmode THH and am curious about safety and efficacy of smoalking this blend with regard to the concerns and notes mentioned here.

Rookie question, though I know that many alkaloids glow under blacklight, and of a range of colors, are harmine, harmaline, and THH all expected to glow blue under a blacklight?

I have smoalked small amounts of this blend twice. The first time seemed normal at first, and then there was an odd shift. Second one was a less intense experience and seemed normalish. Not exactly what I remember of past blends of the same herb combinations. I usually use harmalas that I extract but ran out in creating this blend.

Planning on journeying on it again tomorrow. Still curious as to opinions.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
shroombee
#109 Posted : 8/4/2021 9:18:01 AM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
Rookie question, though I know that many alkaloids glow under blacklight, and of a range of colors, are harmine, harmaline, and THH all expected to glow blue under a blacklight?

From what I've read, pure harmine or THH should glow blue under a blacklight. Harmaline will be yellow/green. Even small amounts of harmaline mixed in with harmine/THH will cause the harmine/THH to glow yellow/green. Supposedly that's one way to determine the purity of your harmine/THH.

Whether there are caveats or not, I don't know. For example, perhaps harmine only glows blue if it's freebase whereas harmine HCL glows yellow/green? That's just a random made-up example.

Or if 1% contamination with harmaline causes the harmine/THH to glow yellow/green instead of blue, that's interesting trivia but not practical for our purposes as we rarely yield 99% pure alkaloids from our kitchen extractions anyhow.
 
Voidmatrix
#110 Posted : 8/4/2021 4:04:47 PM

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Thanks and gratitude to each of you. Not quite as concerned now. The difference of experience seems to be more from what the harmalas are extracted ie caapi or rue.

Will report back about changa experience. Will probably only go subbreakthrough at most.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Voidmatrix
#111 Posted : 8/4/2021 10:35:11 PM

Surrender and BE free

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Hello my lovely friends, checking in again.

Smoalked some changa. Wouldn't say it was even a subbreakthrough, as I ended up purging a good amount after the third hit, and was feeling thankful for the clearing of my system so left it at that. Still working my way back up to breaking through again...

To the matter at hand. The experience is of a slightly different characteristic than what I am used to with this blend. And I should mention that the majority of harmalas added were extracted from caapi. If I recollect correctly, I added Liftmode THH when I ran out of caapi harmala, so there's probably not too much in this blend.

I do however have another blend I have yet to try and if I remember correctly, it's all THH as the harmala component. That said hopefully I have time later in the week to try that one out and report back as well for better assessment of Liftmode THH.

After my experience, I decided to do the blacklight test on my own. Dissolved about 100mg in a small amount of water. I put some on a notecard and held it up to a blacklight. Nothing really glowing. Then I held the cup that contained the THH dissolved in water. Pretty noticeable glowing of yellow-green. So I'm leaning towards there being a small amount of harmaline that may be causing this based off of shroombee's desctiption.

Liftmode THH is likely fine. Nevertheless, I'm starting a caapi extraction this week.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
shroombee
#112 Posted : 8/8/2021 5:47:41 AM

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ava69 wrote:
So it looks like the concensus so far is two votes cast for the China made THH glowing green/yellow (starway & voidmatrix) and one vote cast for the China made THH glowing blue (like it should) under blacklight at 6'o clock (GLTASN). Yes, harmine also glows blue, but let's not complicate all this.

Three votes for the China made THH glowing green/yellow (starway, voidmatrix, shroombee).

As I've shared before and according to what I've read elsewhere, a small amount of harmaline will cause harmine to glow green/yellow instead of blue. I assume this is also the case with THH? We're also assuming the China THH is manufactured in such a manner that it is supposed to glow blue when it is 100% pure. This might not be the case. The China THH may naturally glow green/yellow and thus we're getting anxious over nothing because we don't have the proper reference data. I do feel comfortable that my green/yellow glowing THH is mostly THH, as I've taken 200 mg to enhance DMT and mescaline. If my THH had any appreciable amount of harmaline, I believe I would feel pretty nauseous.

To best preserve my THH, I'm storing it in a sealed mason jar in the freezer with a bunch of desiccant packets to absorb moisture (silica gel and activated alumina). I take the jar out of the freezer at least a couple hours before opening the jar to let it warm to room temperature, thus ensuring no condensation from warm room air forms on the interior walls of the jar or on the Liftmode THH glass container.
 
downwardsfromzero
#113 Posted : 8/8/2021 2:57:32 PM

Boundary Condition

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I fail to see how differences in manufacturing method will change the fluorescence colour of different samples of the same compound other than, in this case, through traces of harmaline or a similar impurity with overwhelmingly powerful yellow-green fluorescence.

Was there a TLC test somewhere back in the thread? Testing all the yellow-green fluorescing samples would be instructive at this point.

It seems fairly safe to say that THH will slowly oxidise to harmaline without some fairly stringent precautions to protect the material, as outlined by shroombee. It's very tempting to link the labile optical inversion of THH with this ease of oxidation. Both processes can occur quite readily courtesy of the tertiary hydrogen atom at position 1 of the betacarboline moiety.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
starway7
#114 Posted : 8/8/2021 3:31:00 PM

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I called ..liftmode.. and they admitted.. impropper storage of THH can cause it to turn back into halmaline...

If it was incorectly stored it was damaged merchandise...as i see it...\\something like sending me a bushel of rotton apples that were stored in the sun...

Plus... just it comming from china...doesnt make me comfortable ...


You may be right asuming it still ok as THH ...but as black light test goes...blue is blue...and yellow is yellow...

the book says it should be ...[ glow blue].. and it doesnt... for what thats worth..

I can extract freebase from cheap rue seeds ...and it will glow very much blue and be all natural and atleast i can be shure of what it is because ... i extracted it...but something comming from china you cant be 100 mpercent shure...
 
shroombee
#115 Posted : 8/8/2021 5:42:56 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
I fail to see how differences in manufacturing method will change the fluorescence colour of different samples of the same compound other than, in this case, through traces of harmaline or a similar impurity with overwhelmingly powerful yellow-green fluorescence.

My chemistry knowledge is basically non-existent. Are there different isomers (for example) that would account for the difference in fluorescence color? Or is the common name THH but that actually refers to different compounds? Like we see hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin advertised for sale and it's actually 2-HPBCD. Also, China THH is brown whereas garage lab THH is white. Any ideas why and how it might relate to fluorescence color?

When garage lab white (blue-glow) THH reverts back to harmaline, does the color change to brown?
 
starway7
#116 Posted : 8/8/2021 11:22:08 PM

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Moderator edit: Please do not post pictures of pricing of online harmalas

here are some photos of THH and Harmalines....powder colors..

also photos of a whole rue seed extraction using high proof alcohol..next to black light...


starway7 attached the following image(s):
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DSC09980.JPG (2,588kb) downloaded 529 time(s).
 
downwardsfromzero
#117 Posted : 8/9/2021 2:25:15 AM

Boundary Condition

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shroombee wrote:
When garage lab white (blue-glow) THH reverts back to harmaline, does the color change to brown?
It's not unusual for degraded material to take on a brownish coloration, and my experience with harmala extracts is that they tend to be brownish. I would have to prepare some white THH before I could 100% definitively confirm this but I'd say the inference is valid.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
starway7
#118 Posted : 8/10/2021 1:35:02 PM

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In what way ?...does the HPBCD improve an oral trip/?

I thought it was supposed to be used sublingually?

Is it safe to take HPBCD orally?

rue and spice alone.. will also make for ...an oral... or smoked aya trip...

.... just curious... what is the benifit of taking HPBCD orally?
 
shroombee
#119 Posted : 8/10/2021 6:56:59 PM

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ava69 wrote:
3. Why DMT freebase and DMT salts used orally never seem to reach beyond a mild +3 while oral HPBCD DMT easily reaches a +5 Shulgin strength.

Thanks ava69 for all that you've shared.

In your answer for #3, I didn't clearly understand why oral HPBCD DMT would be any stronger than a regular (non-HPBCD) oral dose of DMT.

Have you tried a recent comparison between the two?

I've been practicing with low dose pharmahuasca meditation the last several weeks. I've got a good handle on how 100 mg harmine plus 30 mg oral DMT salt feels for me. I can try the HPBCD option. Can I do HPBCD with DMT acetate, or does it have to be DMT freebase?
 
starway7
#120 Posted : 8/11/2021 10:10:49 PM

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ava69 wrote:
Hi Shroombee and starway7, thanks for comments. Shroombee, would recommend raising the 100mg harmine to 200mg harmine for full RIMA inhibition once you get beyond practice stage. Yes Starway7, the HPBCD can be used orally as well as sublingually, completely safe either way.

Yes, HPBCD complexed DMT is many factors stronger orally than DMT freebase or DMT salts used orally in an Ayahuasca tea. See part 3. Yes, I have done recent comparisons, again see part 3. You can only use DMT freebase, only the freebase is able to complex or trap itself inside the inner hydrophobic (water-fearing) HPBCD cavity.

Pic7 above: Example from the scientific literature: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.Thumbs up DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong. Love

Downwardsfromzero responded in The Ayahuasca thread:
ava69 wrote:
Quote:
Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.

Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.
"This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting."

Post #207 is super summary above.



[[ DMT freebase and DMT salts also have poor body absorption, but when freebase DMT is complexed to HPBCD, the oral absorption strength changes from mild to strong.]]


Does this mean freebase dmt will work oraly if complexed to HPBCD? WITHOUT A MAIO??

or is a MAOI still needed??????????????????Wut?

And..didnt You try the newer HPBCD that we have now.... [a while back?] and reported it works as well as your older HPBCD?


And you say HPBCD itself is safe to take oraly?
 
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