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Freeze tolerant perennial entheogens Options
 
ChristianMeteor
#1 Posted : 6/11/2021 4:21:28 PM

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Calling upon northern psychedelic gardeners,

What perennials do you grow in a cold climate? Temperatures here usually dip between 0 and -10F in the winter, and I was curious about my options. I'm currently growing some St. Johns Wort that I started from seed last year, and it was a blessing to see it pop back up. I'm interested primarily in psychedelic plants though, but I am aware there are few suitable DMT source plants here.

I have san pedros growing year round indoors, and from some brief research I've found they can grow in cold climates, but I sure don't feel like testing it with my babies.

Another option is plants that can tolerate lower temps but not necessarily freezing-I have greenhouse plans for the future and with some clever design and geothermal utilization, keeping a greenhouse above freezing in the winter is possible without pumping a bunch of heat into it.

I would love to hear your suggestions
 

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Grey Fox
#2 Posted : 6/11/2021 5:43:35 PM

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This is a great question. I hope that you get some helpful suggestions from people with experience with growing in cold climates.

The suggestion that I have for you (though unfortunately it is not exactly what you are looking for) would be to grow Cubensis mushrooms. I have been thinking for several years now that home cultivation of Cubensis mushrooms is the ideal DIY source of psychedelics for those living in zone 8 and colder, while Trichocereus cacti are the ideal DIY source for those in zone 9 and above.

The cacti are easier and more foolproof (so to speak). I also prefer mescaline to psilocybin. But if I was in a cold winter climate then Cubensis would be the go to psychedelic for me. Because they allow for the production of a large amount of psychedelics with minimal cost and time. In a warm climate Trichocereus also allow for the production of a large amount of psychedelics at a minimal cost, but they take more time of course. If one has the opportunity to grow Trichocereus in the ground in a warm climate then this really is the most ideal situation in my opinion. Unfortunately it becomes much more challenging to achieve the full potential of what Trichocereus have to offer in a colder climate, given that these cacti want to get really big and live for many decades as large, tree-like organisms. Most container grown Trichocereus are essentially bonsais.

And so Cubensis are a wonderful alternative to meet that need for having an abundance of medicine to work with in a colder climate.

I'm interested to hear what other suggestions you receive. All the best in your search for useful plants.
IT WAS ALL A DREAM
 
ShamanisticVibes
#3 Posted : 6/11/2021 11:09:00 PM
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I currently am growing the N,N-DMT abundant Desmanthus illinoensis (Illinois Bundleflower), which can grow in hardiness zones 4-8. Artimisium absinthinum (wormwood) will also grow down to hardiness zone 4 and is not at all finicky with frost. Those are the only 2 that I can think of that are both perennials, and go to that low of a hardiness. I live in zone 5b, and I grow the bundleflower (although just started this year, so have not weathered winter yet) And I have been making attempts at the wormwood, but I think I got some weak seeds because not a single one has germinated. I also grow a large number of species indoor under minimal lighting.
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ChristianMeteor
#4 Posted : 6/12/2021 3:40:21 AM

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Grey Fox wrote:
This is a great question. I hope that you get some helpful suggestions from people with experience with growing in cold climates.

The suggestion that I have for you (though unfortunately it is not exactly what you are looking for) would be to grow Cubensis mushrooms. I have been thinking for several years now that home cultivation of Cubensis mushrooms is the ideal DIY source of psychedelics for those living in zone 8 and colder, while Trichocereus cacti are the ideal DIY source for those in zone 9 and above.

The cacti are easier and more foolproof (so to speak). I also prefer mescaline to psilocybin. But if I was in a cold winter climate then Cubensis would be the go to psychedelic for me. Because they allow for the production of a large amount of psychedelics with minimal cost and time. In a warm climate Trichocereus also allow for the production of a large amount of psychedelics at a minimal cost, but they take more time of course. If one has the opportunity to grow Trichocereus in the ground in a warm climate then this really is the most ideal situation in my opinion. Unfortunately it becomes much more challenging to achieve the full potential of what Trichocereus have to offer in a colder climate, given that these cacti want to get really big and live for many decades as large, tree-like organisms. Most container grown Trichocereus are essentially bonsais.

And so Cubensis are a wonderful alternative to meet that need for having an abundance of medicine to work with in a colder climate.

I'm interested to hear what other suggestions you receive. All the best in your search for useful plants.


Cubensis are a bit more work than I'm ready to commit to right now, though, if the laws were different, I would have BOATLOADS of these and peyote growing, plus salvia divinorum. The legal implications do scare me away (but I don't think I have to tell anyone here that.) Also "Bonsai'd cacti" is a great way of putting it-they grow slow and sort of just chill. IMO growing San Pedro indoors is good for cloning-I've had two successful ones so far and with my very leggy mother plant, I'm looking to do some more.

 
ChristianMeteor
#5 Posted : 6/12/2021 3:42:24 AM

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ShamanisticVibes wrote:
I currently am growing the N,N-DMT abundant Desmanthus illinoensis (Illinois Bundleflower), which can grow in hardiness zones 4-8. Artimisium absinthinum (wormwood) will also grow down to hardiness zone 4 and is not at all finicky with frost. Those are the only 2 that I can think of that are both perennials, and go to that low of a hardiness. I live in zone 5b, and I grow the bundleflower (although just started this year, so have not weathered winter yet) And I have been making attempts at the wormwood, but I think I got some weak seeds because not a single one has germinated. I also grow a large number of species indoor under minimal lighting.


I was just looking at some wormwood varities at my local greenhouse but none were the absinthium variety. I will most certainly look into bundleflower-I've never heard of that plant before. Are you aware of any other wormwoods in the psychoactive realm? I remember seeing beach wormwood and silver wormwood, but I can't remember their full names.

What ones are you growing indoors and under what kind of light? I just have some basic philips LED lights around 5500 Kelvin that seem to get the job done. I did a lot of research on lights and figured unless I was going to buy my own Cree LED chips and mount it to a heat sink, a $10 LED bulb is the next best option.
 
ShamanisticVibes
#6 Posted : 6/12/2021 12:15:33 PM
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ChristianMeteor wrote:


I was just looking at some wormwood varities at my local greenhouse but none were the absinthium variety. I will most certainly look into bundleflower-I've never heard of that plant before. Are you aware of any other wormwoods in the psychoactive realm? I remember seeing beach wormwood and silver wormwood, but I can't remember their full names.

What ones are you growing indoors and under what kind of light? I just have some basic philips LED lights around 5500 Kelvin that seem to get the job done. I did a lot of research on lights and figured unless I was going to buy my own Cree LED chips and mount it to a heat sink, a $10 LED bulb is the next best option.[/quote]





I do not believe there is anything besides absinthium in the wormwood family that contains thujone, unfortunately. I have several different lights, but most are led or cob led, cheapo amazon stuff for 20 or 40 bucks each. I grow all kinds of stuff, but the psychedelic stuff I have are Mimosa hostilis, Sinicuichi, several different cacti, Bundleflower, Rue,as well as psilocybe mushies, and I am beginning to experiment with creating the symbiosis needed to cultivate A. muscaria. I have a thread dedicated to my grow here that has chronicled them all from seed up to this week. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...sts&t=96506&p=4


Blessings, friend.
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Jagube
#7 Posted : 6/12/2021 4:54:46 PM

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How about the wood loving mushroom species?
Ovoids, cyans...?
Or cinctulus, which is not a wood lover, but grows in lawns fertilized with dung.
 
Cebil
#8 Posted : 6/12/2021 5:04:37 PM

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Acacia phlebophylla...
 
downwardsfromzero
#9 Posted : 6/12/2021 9:24:04 PM

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I'd get those cacti outdoors once the chances of frost have passed - they'll love it. Just watch out for sunburn at first. Growth of potted cacti is so much stronger when they're outdoors both because of sunlight and from the physical forces of the wind. Spination will be stronger, growth will be faster - you've got to try it and see!

Normal San Pedros will tolerate down to -6°C for short periods if it's not too damp. One of my big specimens survived having its pot frozen solid for two weeks although the upper part was protected from the wind and likely was a couple of degrees warmer - as well as the relative humidity being acceptably low. It really is the cold, dark, damp time with temperatures around or even just above freezing that's caused the most casualties for my plants in general.

A lot of 'normal' collectors' cacti don't like it at all below 8 - 10°C but many of the Trichocereus species are considerably more hardy. Learning what you can get away with with your own particular cacti is all part of the learning experience. There's you, your plants and the local environment/weather/climate. You can find a balance that suits you and your plants best.

The greenhouse will be a boon to your project so get the best you can as soon as you can. The heating idea is particularly interesting. Would you really be using geothermal, or would it be something like a ground source heat pump?

Cebil wrote:
Acacia phlebophylla...
Just how frost-tolerant is that species? Wut?
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ChristianMeteor
#10 Posted : 6/12/2021 11:46:32 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
I'd get those cacti outdoors once the chances of frost have passed - they'll love it. Just watch out for sunburn at first. Growth of potted cacti is so much stronger when they're outdoors both because of sunlight and from the physical forces of the wind. Spination will be stronger, growth will be faster - you've got to try it and see!

Normal San Pedros will tolerate down to -6°C for short periods if it's not too damp. One of my big specimens survived having its pot frozen solid for two weeks although the upper part was protected from the wind and likely was a couple of degrees warmer - as well as the relative humidity being acceptably low. It really is the cold, dark, damp time with temperatures around or even just above freezing that's caused the most casualties for my plants in general.

A lot of 'normal' collectors' cacti don't like it at all below 8 - 10°C but many of the Trichocereus species are considerably more hardy. Learning what you can get away with with your own particular cacti is all part of the learning experience. There's you, your plants and the local environment/weather/climate. You can find a balance that suits you and your plants best.

The greenhouse will be a boon to your project so get the best you can as soon as you can. The heating idea is particularly interesting. Would you really be using geothermal, or would it be something like a ground source heat pump?

Cebil wrote:
Acacia phlebophylla...
Just how frost-tolerant is that species? Wut?


I should get my babies out in the sun ASAP then-I'm sure they would soak it up. For the geothermal design, there is a particular style called a GAHT (Ground Air Heat Transfer) which essentially consists of corrugated drain pipe being run down 8ft into the ground where the soil temperature is consistent. Two fans are hooked up-one at the top of the greenhouse and one at the bottom. The idea is to draw warm air from the soil in the winter and hot air from the greenhouse in the summer. Using a big slab of concrete is another option, but I'm considering using water for my system. The area I'm working with is lowland wet, however, so I'm considering running the piping into a big soil mound.
 
downwardsfromzero
#11 Posted : 6/13/2021 8:59:55 AM

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Just beware of sunburn when putting your cacti outside at first. Perhaps choose a cloudy day to start with and definitely make sure they're shaded from the midday sun for a few days.

Interesting heating method, I'll look into it and consider whether it can be retrofitted to my greenhouse.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
murklan
#12 Posted : 6/13/2021 9:35:03 AM

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ShamanisticVibes wrote:
I do not believe there is anything besides absinthium in the wormwood family that contains thujone, unfortunately.


Thujone is present in many plants in varied amounts. Like Salvia Officinalis, Tanacetum vulgare (Tansy) and others. Some research
But it's a substance that you have to be careful with I think. I use common mugwort quite often anyways.
I read somewhere that a sign for thujone poisoning is that your vision becomes purple. Sounds fun Wink

But I'm also interested in hardy psychoactive plants.

 
downwardsfromzero
#13 Posted : 6/13/2021 10:01:00 AM

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^That's what I was going to say Smile

Also, a cup of strong wormwood tea has psychoactive properties that go beyond that of thujone alone.

Mugwort is a great herb, well worth getting to know. My other favorite Artemisia species is tarragon - great with chicken and/or mushroom, for instance, and also useful for absinthe for those that will.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ShamanisticVibes
#14 Posted : 6/13/2021 1:12:33 PM
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murklan wrote:


Thujone is present in many plants in varied amounts. Like Salvia Officinalis, Tanacetum vulgare (Tansy) and others. Some research
But it's a substance that you have to be careful with I think. I use common mugwort quite often anyways.
I read somewhere that a sign for thujone poisoning is that your vision becomes purple. Sounds fun Wink

But I'm also interested in hardy psychoactive plants.



Very interesting! I will admit that the extent of my alkaloidal knowledge stems basically from Mr. GooglePants Big grin I am more knowledgeable about the growing tactics and psychoactive effects moreso than anything. Also, I was giggling "Thuja occidentalis" just seems like it was never supposed to be Big grin
downwardsfromzero wrote:

Also, a cup of strong wormwood tea has psychoactive properties that go beyond that of thujone alone.


Also very interesting! Do you know what these compounds are? I would be very interested to read any peer-reviewed papers, if you knew of any? A. absinthium, admittedly, has, along side of A. peregrina, become somewhat the bane of my existence. I attempted to grow this from seed using several different methods from sand, vermiculite, heavy perlite/coir mix, and everything in between. To no avail. I may just get me some cuttings if I can find any. I had the same troubles with my V. africana seeds (although they are notoriously difficult to sprout, and can take up to a year, some anecdotes noted). I got a rooted cutting and I have beautiful growth on it. A. peregrina is also seemingly impossible to sprout; I've been through hundreds of seeds with no luck. They seem to HATE water lol. I got off on a bit of a tangent there, but I am kind of working through ideas in my head and this helped. Alrighty, then, I'm off to work.

Enjoy your respective Sundays!
Cheers, folks, and many blessings!
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Cebil
#15 Posted : 6/13/2021 6:23:01 PM

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I'm certainly no expert but have read A.phlebophylla favours a alpine climate so I'm sure lower temps and periods of frost woukd be fine.It is also a endangered species so if seeds can be ethically sourced it may be one to try
A quick search I did also pointed out that A.acuminata and subsp (A.burketti) may also do well in your conditions
Perhaps someone with more knowledge on temps these plants can chime in

 
ShamanisticVibes
#16 Posted : 6/14/2021 12:28:42 AM
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Cebil wrote:
I'm certainly no expert but have read A.phlebophylla favours a alpine climate so I'm sure lower temps and periods of frost woukd be fine.It is also a endangered species so if seeds can be ethically sourced it may be one to try
A quick search I did also pointed out that A.acuminata and subsp (A.burketti) may also do well in your conditions
Perhaps someone with more knowledge on temps these plants can chime in


It is qualified as hardiness zone 7b ( as per http://www.plantthis.com...tenance&plantSpot=0 ), so I am not sure how well it would deal with frost at any extended period. It may be resistant, but it is not invincible when it comes to frost. I have never grown it, so anecdotally, I have no input, but Mr. Googlepants tells me that your information may be incorrect. Please do not take this the wrong way, my only interest here is providing the correct information, so if you have other sources that may explain better, please cite them, as I am always happy to be proven wrong Big grin

Perhaps you misread, or the article misspoke and meant "pine" instead of "alpine"? Or perhaps the term alpine by definition is more relevant to a certain height above sea level? Again, I am no expert either, just my interpretations.

Blessings.
Jack of few trades, Master of none, Student of all
 
ChristianMeteor
#17 Posted : 6/14/2021 5:35:04 PM

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murklan wrote:
ShamanisticVibes wrote:
I do not believe there is anything besides absinthium in the wormwood family that contains thujone, unfortunately.


Thujone is present in many plants in varied amounts. Like Salvia Officinalis, Tanacetum vulgare (Tansy) and others. Some research
But it's a substance that you have to be careful with I think. I use common mugwort quite often anyways.
I read somewhere that a sign for thujone poisoning is that your vision becomes purple. Sounds fun Wink

But I'm also interested in hardy psychoactive plants.



From the study "Beside neurotoxicity, thujones may show genotoxic and carcinogenic properties; however, antimutagenic and anticarcinogenic effects can appear, too (Nikolić et al. 2015)" I couldn't find an actual PsychonautWiki link to Thujone's subjective effects, so I am quite curious about what it actually does-I have salvia officinalis growing all over.

I also forgot mugwort existed-I had a small batch growing a couple years back that I neglected. I may give this an wormwood at shot. Another chemical, absinthin, seems to be a propagator of effects in this plant as well. I suppose the question is now whether to grow from seed or cutting
 
titus
#18 Posted : 6/15/2021 1:52:24 AM

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Cebil wrote:
I'm certainly no expert but have read A.phlebophylla favours a alpine climate so I'm sure lower temps and periods of frost woukd be fine.It is also a endangered species so if seeds can be ethically sourced it may be one to try

This species favors a very specific alpine climate... a single mountain in Victoria, Australia: Mount Buffalo. Apparently people have had a lot of trouble trying to grow this species past a year old or so, but if you can source some seeds I'd definitely have a shot at it! Probably also note that it gets quite hot in the natural environment of phlebophylla, up to 40C in summer, and probably gets down to around at the very most -10C, so growing conditions might be a bit hard to replicate.
 
kerelsk
#19 Posted : 6/19/2021 2:57:40 PM

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Peganum harmala can tolerate hard frost and snow cover. Perfect garden pairing with Desmanthus illinoensis and/or D. leptolobus.
Really benefits from full sun, in tree filled areas needs some open space.

Passiflora incarnata can be used as a caapi analog, although less potent. I need to bioassay my Lespedeza bicolor plants, but they are growing beautifully in zone 6b, star performers. If they contain usable quantities of dmt it would be the perfect plant. The leaves are edible after boiling supposedly.

And of course some varieties of Ipomoea tricolor flower quickly and can be seeded as an annual. I think this species might actually be the most viable psychedelic plant for very northern latitudes.
 
Quetzal7
#20 Posted : 6/19/2021 3:59:49 PM

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Psilo azurescens, cyanescens, allenii.
If you aren't trained in growing mushroom, well, great, they are about the easiest. You can just buy some spawn and mix with fresh wood chip ( i use a 2% spawning rate! but try something like 10% if you want to be sure). Many deciduous hardwood are suitable - but in my area, it's easier to source acacia (dealbata) and it works great too =)

Cactus : i'm in zone 8a, with cold, wet winter. Cactus have hard time in winter ; but if they have just a roof, they are fine. It's not the cold, but the humidity that kill them.
Also, if they are berely watered in the second half of the summer, they tend to be less juicy and survive better (but grow much slower)

I'm trying acacia floribunda and acuminata... we will see how is their first winter outside =)

I got some Elaeagnus (as a N-fixer and for the berries ), they have harmal-alk , though i didn't research much about it yet

what else? well, Amanitas are easy to find =)
 
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