HPBCD DMT very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca Options
#1 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:08:34 AM

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2 minute formed HPBCD DMT liquid very bioavailable sublingually under tongue & outperforms DMT salts orally by many factors in personal trials, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca.

Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration
Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation
Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine (THH) effects
Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note
Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies
part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual" or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal
part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions
part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.
part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman
part 10: One way to make tetrahydroharmine
part 11: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask

Latest findings:

part 12: update 5-12-21 see post #25, ORAL AYAHUASCA REPORT: 70mg DMT complexed to 490mg HPBCD in 10 drops very hot water formed 0.500ml solution after 2 minutes of kneading/mashing on a spoon: solution mixed into 2oz hot water solution of 200mg harmine + 250mg THH resulted in +5 Shulgin scale Shocked experience IDENTICAL to 30 grams potent Hawaiian psychotria brew (Having taken 30 to 40 grams of Hawaiian psychotria with Caapi over 70 times over a period of many years).

70mg HPBCD DMT absorbed several factors better than oral freebase DMT or DMT salts (all were mild +3 Sad experiences in a dozen trials, due to poor oral body absorption). The HPBCD DMT out performed and absorbed better than the dozen DMT salt experiments (70 to 120mg) I performed years ago. The results are similar to several papers I have read in which HPBCD was used to enhance the absorption of oral pharmaceuticals over their normal oral absorption by many factors.

Example: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.Thumbs up

part 13: Oral 300mg THH taken 45 minutes earlier, then sublingual 60mg DMT complexed to 420mg HPBCD with 10 drops very hot water on a spoon with 2 minutes of mashing & stirring held under tongue for 15 minutes: PHENOMENAL strength, active for 90 minutes, profound open eyed beauty, heavy CEV imagery, music incredible, very euphoric. See post #42 at top of page 3.

Part 14: (page 2 post #32) 300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself

Part 15: (page 3 post #53) How HPBCD DMT was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca

Part 16: (page 9 post #170) Approximately 0.25% mescaline in PC san pedro cactus tea

Part 17: (page 8 post #153) Condenses this whole paper into 2 pages, explains how to use this with pictures & trip report. If you need something to print out to follow, these 2 pages would be it.

Pics for guests who can't log in:

Part 1: HPBCD complexed DMT experimental dosage, effects & duration

I found a thread here from 2012 entitled "Complexing DMT freebase for sublingual administration" After reading all 3 pages, I learned that no user in the thread attempted HPBCD complex to DMT, so I did an experiment to find out if it works.

I used a 7:1 gram weight ratio of HPBCD (hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, molar weight between 1200 to 1500 g/mol) on auction sites and elsewhere, to DMT (molar weight = 188g/mol) in order to keep the molar ratio of cyclodextrin to host drug at a 1:1 molar ratio.

What I did was place 30mg freebase dmt on a spoon, add 210mg of HPBCD powder on top the DMT, add 5 drops (less than 0.250ml) of VERY HOT near boiling water from a pipette, this was water that was pre-heated up in microwave in coffee cup. I knead/mash & mix it all together using end of a spoon for 2 minutes, it turns into a sticky solution, then draw up liquid with pipette, place drops under tongue and hold for 15 minutes. The DMT will all dissolve into the bloodstream.

210mg of HPBCD may look like alot when laid out, but when even just a few drops of hot water is added to it, it shrinks into a small sticky clear mass as it is derived from a sugar molecule, perfect for "under the tongue" use.

Strong effects at 5 minutes after the end of the 15 minute HPBCD DMT sublingual drug delivery under tongue: tryptamine rush/buzz & greatly elevated heart rate & pulse, dilated pupils...neon colorful visuals/visions...peak at 30 to 45 minutes, duration 60 to 90 minutes. 250mg tetrahydroharmine taken orally 3 hours earlier, transcendent combination, music sounded heavenly, the spiritual power of music.

I would imagine this might allow those who normally get nausea from oral preps to avoid the nausea. There is no burn under tongue, taste yes. I used this 3 times in one night over the course of several hours with THH, and my tongue was just fine, no burn or scarring. Felt just fine next day too. I experienced profound beauty and had visuals, very transcendent. Zero nausea.

Narang and Sharma mention in their 2010 sublingual paper that under the tongue pharmaceuticals can be 3 to 10 times more bioavailable than oral. HPBCD makes the non-water soluble DMT water soluble. It traps and delivers small molecules such as DMT extremely effectively across the mucosa membrane under the tongue, with it's high permeability (only 100 to 200 micrometers thick) and rich blood supply--shuttling the DMT directly to bloodstream.

Most studies recommend a 1:1 equimolar ratio of HPBCD to host drug for complexing.

HPBCD is a new technology that allows freebase nonpolar drugs like DMT to be trapped by the cyclodextrin inner cavity which is composed of an inner "non-polar trap", and "outer polar cavity or cone" which allows the normally water insoluble DMT to be made 100% water soluble.

HPBCD is composed from a sugar molecule, it has been used to make scores of other non-water soluble drugs 100% water soluble and reach peak activity as measurements of the drug in the bloodstream indicated that all of the freebase drug was absorbed effectively.

Other examples of non water soluble freebase non-polar drugs complexed with HPBCD made water soluble: hormones, pregnisolone, etc.

Apparently, this also makes the DMT absorb very well if taken orally as well, possibly improving even the oral bio-availability substantially when taken with RIMA's to activate it, etc.

THH or tetrahydroharmine can be taken orally (100, 150 to 200mg), my favorite in combo, while the DMT can be used sublingually, allowing the best of both worlds. No nausea felt. Have tried this in dreams several times in one night, and it works extremely well, tryptamine rush felt around 5 or more minutes after sublingual application, peak at 30 to 45 minutes, like an extended sub-breakthrough, excellent for long lasting transcendental contemplation and work. Best to limit to once a week or so, so no tolerance.

professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.

I agree with his statement. Should add that music sounds quite incredible on a combo of 150mg or more of THH + DMT as tetrahydroharmine imho breaks down the filters or barriers in the mind, so that "mind at large" can be let loose, very similar to listening to music on cactus.

In TIHKAL, 300mg of tetrahydroharmine (THH) is equated by one psychonaut to the closed eye visionary (CEV) power of 100mg harmaline, but without all the nausea and dizziness. I totally agree. It glows blue under blacklight, like LSD or psilocin & has a metallic-like lingering taste with a 10.5 hour half-life.

Don't forget that this should improve the ORAL BIOAVAILABILITY of dmt when combined with a RIMA as well -- this technology has been used to potentiate these freebase drugs ORALLY as well -- this could potentially mean an Ayahuasca experience that is strong in potency.

"Sublingual mucosa as a route for systemic drug delivery" by Narang & Sharma 2010:

As you can see from this sublingual viagra study, even 50 to 100mg doses can be administered under the tongue, the authors noting that less of the drug was required, and that it began working in only one half the normal time of an oral dose:

"The start of pharmacological activity after sublingual administration of sildenafil citrate in 30 patients affected by erectile dysfunction." by Siati & Franzolin 2003:

Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.

THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. Researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. This includes tetrahydroharmine. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.

Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."

Note: I spent much time pulling up many threads on "sublingual or nasal fumarate salt DMT", and they were all dissapointing reads, whereas the several HPBCD complexed 30mg DMT experiments I performed were strong indeed--held under tongue for 15 minutes, 5 minutes later: rapid heartbeat, rapid pulse, dilated pupils, felt distinct tryptamine rush & buzz take over my body, neon colored CEV visuals. Felt elation, euphoria especially in combo with the THH which I had taken many hours earlier.

Music sounded very good, experienced profound beauty with open eyes & CEV's with closed eyes. The duration was long. I re-dosed more 30mg HPBCD complexed DMT every hour for the next 3 hours, it was a sublime experience. I should have gone even higher in dosage to gauge. The afterglow even after the 3 hour period was fantastic. I watched a movie and had a fantastic time.

Have no explanation for how well this worked, there must be something special going on with the complexed HPBCD DMT, I can feel that it all absorbs in less than 15 minutes, and it wastes no time in reaching the brain unhindered, very impressed with this route of administration.

Look forward to hearing from other experimenters, HPBCD is dirt cheap. I bought my 1kg tub for less than the price of two movie tickets over 12 years ago, had been sitting in my closet all that time, used it in the past for complexing pro-hormones for sublingual use, very effective I might add, been a weight lifter since my early 20's. I read other weight lifters were doing the same, so I copied what they were doing before pro-hormones were banned.

Keep in mind that only a portion or "tail end" of the host molecule is needed to attach or fit into the cyclodextrin cone, and that's all that is needed to be "trapped". I attached a picture of this below. The cyclodextrins have toroidal shapes, with the larger and the smaller openings of the toroid exposing to the solvent secondary and primary hydroxyl groups respectively.

Post #8 is all about the 2016 Polish morning glory study and the new 2020 receptorome data which compares LSH in the morning glory seeds to LSD, important new data never seen before.

Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music

Psychedelic news, articles, interviews and art from the DMT-Nexus and other sources.
#2 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:18:02 AM

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Part 2: receptorome chart & explanation

This is why I suggest taking the DMT with tetrahydroharmine (as found in true Ayahuasca):

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max or "off the charts", 0.00=min
LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69 (sensual & entactogenic)
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69 (novelty & new ideas)
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2a)
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2b)
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2c)

2011 Thomas S. Ray study: Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (these serotonin filters/gates/barriers/doors make up >80% of brain 5-ht & are broken down when 5-ht1a is agonized)

This study from Mol Pharmacol. 1988 Feb;33(2):178-86. backs up the above study from Thomas S. Ray:

Pharmacology of 5-hydroxytryptamine-1A receptors which inhibit cAMP production in hippocampal and cortical neurons in primary culture.
5-HT1A agonist: All the tryptamine derivatives substituted in position 5 of the indol were potent agonists [5-HT, 5-CT, 5-MeO-N,N-DMT, 5-methoxytryptamine, and bufotenine (5-ho-DMT)],

whereas tryptamine, N-methyltryptamine, and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) were poor agonists.

Dr. Nichols ( LSD paper):
LSD has very strong potency in blocking the action of serotonin. LSD is strongly "anti-serotonin". The morpholide lysergamide cousin had only about 1/10th the potency in blocking serotonin. Of the 5 diferent dialkylamides we studied LSD was the most potent and specific serotonin antagonist. 5-ht1a makes up >80% of brain 5-ht receptors

An example of the importance of adding the serotonin reuptake inhibition properties of 5-meo-dmt for example to dmt (which has poor 5-ht1 reuptake properites on it's own) is shown below. This is the same way the snuff's are used in the amazon, as they naturally combine dmt with additives which cause the reuptake of 5-ht like bufotenin for example.

Oroc's experiment of combining 5-meo-dmt with DMT sounds imho very much like a short beautiful transcendental Ayahuasca experience, from his book "Tryptamine Palace":

DMT + tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt [perhaps similar theoretically to Amazonian snuffs which have a makeup of 7.4% bufotenin (potent 5-ht1a agonist), 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT (potent 5-ht1a agonist) & 0.16% DMT (poor potency as 5-ht1a agonist):
As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.

** With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.

As we go thru day to day life, the 5-ht1a brain serotonin filters (gates, or day to day survival filters as I like to call them) which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht are in place so that we will not be overwhelmed by the perception of the way things would appear to an un-filtered mind, or "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley describes it in "Doors of Perception" as "infinite or eternal". He also referred to the visions as coming from "the other world" in his book "Moksha". I prefer to think of it in similar terms as well "the spirit world" or "the other world".

5-ht1a inhibition by entheogens (in green above) theoretically cause this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt with the tetrahydroharmine providing the 5-ht1a inhibition & additional adrenal system agonization (A2A thru A2C), just as bufotenine in snuff's provide the 5-ht1a inhibition combined with the dmt in the snuff's, resulting in a 3 hour experience ie both examples of Teamwork on how these entheogens are used traditionally in the Amazon.

Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Tetrahydroharmine is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi. In other words, both are strong serotonin reuptake inhibitors which inhibit over 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a.

In contrast, as an example, Cocaethylene (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine, the orally active & potent ingredient formed in the liver from cocaine + ethanol in the 1860's "Vin Mariani" wine popular with both Popes, Thomas Edison and scores of other famous people) increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor"].

Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."
#3 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:22:02 AM

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Part 3: Tetrahydroharmine effects

The Ayahuasca closed eye visions using 100, 150 to 200mg tetrahydroharmine or THH and HPBCD complexed DMT (30mg on up) together surpass in magnificence anything I have ever seen in reality or in works of art.

With open eyes, all spiritual things such as nature, art, female form, beauty, joy, take on significant meaning with infinite beauty, just like with cactus or LSD. Extraordinary beauty is manifested with open eyes and with the visions one sees with closed eyes. Impossible neon-like colors are seen that don't exist on this Earth.

The existence of a higher spiritual plane is recognized to which insight can and must be gained, yet it does not reject the mundane reality as inferior or empty. This joyous embracement of the world of form leads to words like infinite pleasure, beauty and joy. This loving reappraisal of the worldly forms leads the way to higher divine planes.
#4 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:22:56 AM

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Part 4: Tetrahydroharmine receptorome similarities to mescaline; potentiates cactus & safety note

A little off topic, but I think tetrahydroharmine is a pretty special compound. I've used 250mg of it to potentiate cactus to very strong levels, it makes a 12" medium san pedro cactus tea which may contain around 250mg mescaline feel like an X-large 12" thick san pedro cactus containing around 400mg mescaline. It makes a 12" thick bridgesii cactus feel closer to a tea made with a 12" bridgesii cactus along with an extra 6" piece.

In the data I've seen for THH, it strongly blocks serotonin just like cactus, but also agonizes the adrenal A2A thru A2C receptors (the receptors associated with aesthetics & beauty), just like mescaline has been shown to do receptorome wise, explaining perhaps why they "overlap" so well. THH being able to make mescaline in cactus feel much stronger than it really is. Anyone who has ever taken cactus or high dose THH knows the appreciation for beauty experienced is "over the top".

But you have to stagger the THH from the cactus by taking the tetrahydroharmine around an hour after the cactus is taken, that way any minor maoi's or rima's in the cactus won't interact with the SRI which is THH, which can result in a faster heartbeat for a few hours which has happened to me long as you take it later, it potentiates the cactus quite feels like I've taken 400mg of mescaline containing cactus tea when it's really only 250mg mescaline containing cactus, and they both lasts around 6 hours with super strong activity, so they wind down at around the same time. I have around 7 months experience combining the two, giving myself around 2 weeks apart from journeys.

It works so well, I won't take cactus any other way from now on. I get much more mileage from cactus this way. Visuals and visions are insane, music is so good sounding, you would think you were an alien experiencing sound and music for the very first time, every instrument stands out on it's own, like hearing a track for the very first time.
#5 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:23:53 AM

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Part 5: chemist Patrick Arnold's HPBCD prohormones & bloodwork studies

A litte bit more on sublingual & nasal HPBCD complexed pharmaceuticals:

Several years ago, before "prohormones" were banned, there was a company called "Ergopharm" ran by chemist Patrick Arnold that made HPBCD complexed solutions of prohormones in a nasal spray & in a HPBCD complexed powder that was administered under tongue.

In 2001 Arnold's company introduced the prohormone 4-Androstenediol, under the marketing name 4-AD. 4-AD is a prohormone that is easily converted by the body into testosterone, and it sold well. He is the chemist who created hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin complexed diols such as Cyclo-Diol(TM) and Cyclo-Nordiol(TM).

I bought and used the nasal spray and it was very effective, had my testosterone level checked with a blood test at the local labcore one hour after administering the spray and it was 3,500 ng/dl ! when my normal level was 600ng/dl. Highest measured normal levels in men are around 1200 ng/dl. The blood test cost me $70.00. It had strong mental effects as well. The spray would cause the 4-ad to enter the bloodstream nasally, and convert to testosterone via enzyme activity.

Patrick Arnold also made a sublingual powder of HPBCD complexed 1-AD that could be grabbed from the bottle with a pre-measured scooper, and the powder held under tongue for around 10 minutes or so, sold just as well as the nasal spray, I tried the sublingual product he sold, and that again was effective.
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#6 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:24:47 AM

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Part 6: Dr. Narang: "with sublingual or "under the tongue" better than buccal, gingival & palatal

With Insufflation, sublingual or rectal, DMT is not broken down by monoamine oxidase.

See above paper from Narang et al, Intl J Pharm Sci, Vol 3, Suupl 2, 2011, 18-22:
"With sublingual or "under the tongue", the mucosea thickness is only 100-200, high permeability with rich blood supply, much better than buccal or gingival & palatal, 200, 250, 500 micrometer respectively, shuttling the drug directly to bloodstream." The DMT is not broken down via monamine oxidase whatsoever this way. It avoids the liver and first pass metabolism. The drug is rapidly absorbed via the rich blood supply vessels under the tongue rather than being broken down in the digestive track via the enzyme monamine oxidase. According to paper: "Sublingually administered drugs reach directly in to the blood stream through the ventral surface of the tongue and floor of the mouth. The drug solutes are rapidly absorbed into the reticulated vein which lies underneath the oral mucosa, and transported through the facial veins, internal jugular vein, and braciocephalic vein and then drained in to systemic circulation."

According to paper, "the absorption of drugs through the sublingual route is 3 to 10 times greater than oral route and is surpassed by hypodermic injection. Peak blood levels of most products administered sublingually are achieved within 10 to 15 minutes, which is generally much faster than when those same drugs are ingested orally." This has been my experience as well, after 10 minutes of sublingual under tongue application, 5 minutes after the 10 minute sublingual absorption, the DMT rush is felt, followed by 60 to 90 minutes of entheogenic activity. According to paper, "sublingual absorption of drugs is efficient. The percent of each dose absorbed is generally higher than that achieved by means of oral ingestion."

Smoked: If DMT is smoked, the maximal effects last for a short period of time (5 to 30 minutes, dose-dependent). The onset after inhalation is very fast (less than 45 seconds) and maximal effects are reached within about a minute.

Insufflation & Sublingual absorption via Oral Mucosa (under tongue): When DMT is insufflated (snorted through the nostrils) or absorbed sublingually the duration is markedly increased.

Injection: Injected DMT produces an experience similar to inhalation in duration, intensity, and characteristics.

Oral ingestion: DMT, which is broken down by the digestive enzyme monoamine oxidase, is practically inactive if taken orally, unless combined with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).
#7 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:28:40 AM

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Part 7: a little bit on my 70 Ayahuasca experiences, doses & visions

FYI: The THH is an SRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor with significant adrenal activity at A2A thru A2C receptors, similar to mescaline in that regard), it has super weak MAOI activity (see Wikipedia on tetrahydroharmine).

I looked up the data comparing RIMA activity of THH to harmine from a lab supplier who gave the data, and they referenced THH as only having around 1/100th the RIMA strength of harmine, practically non-existent strength as a RIMA. That would mean it would take 20,000mg of THH to equal 200mg of harmine in RIMA strength. Harmine & harmaline however have significant RIMA/MAOI activity.

P.S. I have not actually tried the sublingual DMT by itself, I always prefer it with THH taken orally about 1/2 hour before applying the sublingual HPBCD DMT under my tongue. THH will not activate the DMT at all, but the combo of the two (oral THH + sublingual complexed DMT) is my absolute favorite after trying this several times.

How to best describe THH or tetrahydroharmine:

THH alone (200 to 300mg) with open eyes = everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day, just like professor8 describes it. A study done once on the UDV found that brews with high levels of tetrahydroharmine were preferred over all other brews, they found the "dmt was not the main attraction" but actually brews high in THH, fascinating study.

With 250mg to 300mg THH, closed eye dream-like Ayahuasca visions actually form with closed eyes that begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours, These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT seems to add color and brightness to the visions. The DMT also of course adds strong psychedelic alterations & activity to the journey and enhances the quality of music in combo with THH, music sounds incredible as mentioned before for several hours, especially if you keep taking the sublingual DMT around once an hour for the next 3 hours.

Years ago, I took DMT freebase (70 to 90mg) with harmine and THH pharmahuasca at least a dozen times, and found it mild at best (on a Shulgin scale of 1 to 5, they were all +3 experiences). I even tried to dissolve it into coca cola and citric acid in hot water to make it absorb better as the salt, but it only slightly increased the strength.

The sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT tried the other day was all encompassing and strong at only 30mg, very impressed, I can only imagine where stronger doses will carry this psychonaut.

After that I switched to taking 30 to 35 grams of Hawaiian psychotria boiled down to a couple oz, then added the harmine + thh to the 2oz of hot pychotria tea....well that blew my mind CONSISTENTLY for many years, as I continued to use it over 65 times! Most of the experiences were +4 to +5, very strong indeed, much stronger than the freebase used dmt.

This agrees with what I read from clearlight:
Clearlight experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.

Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:
Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.

However, at this point, I have noticed that ALL the dried Hawaiian psychotria is extinct, and is no longer available. So I am looking forward in dreams to oral HPBCD complexed DMT at around 60mg on up, and hoping this will do the trick, I'm sure it will after having experienced what I really love with the 30mg sublingual HPBCD complexed DMT.

I have read HPBCD complexing these non-water soluble freebase drugs to make them orally 100% water soluble should make it absorb very effectively in the body, so I do believe it will be possible to once again achieve very strong journeys, similar to the ones I used to have using strong water soluble psychotria leaf.

I often found the oral DMT too short as it would wind down after 90 minutes of taking the pharmahuasca, and I am very glad I found this new complexing method so that I can take a "sublingual dose" if I choose at 90 minutes, to extend the journey at least another 90 minutes, to get a full 3 hours of strong activity out of it, that is my goal, and I feel I am one step closer after having experienced the 30mg HPBCD complexed DMT experiment that was successful.

1) This could also be used to make HPBCD complexed DMT drops which can be added to a hot water tea that already has (around 180 to 220mg) harmine and (150 to 250mg) tetrahydroharmine dissolved in it (using added crushed vitamin C or similar to dissolve) for a SUPER POTENT ORAL pharmahuasca exeperience. Mix it all together and take at the exact same time, just as the Shaman's do. This is how I used to take the Ayahuasca over 65 times I made using same ingredients mixed into 2oz of hot psychotria leaf tea filtered and boiled down to 2oz.

2) Don't forget the importance of tetrahydroharmine or THH, which is 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi made will want to experience real TRUE Ayahuasca, which is a brew high in it (from 150 to 250mg, 250 to 300mg for intense visions):

My last time taking 300mg of THH alone, I saw the interior decorations of palaces, the checkered floors, the beautiful windows and furniture, the winding stair cases, I was blown away, I've seen sacred temples for religious worship, beautiful animals and super fine women, birds of all kinds. I even saw a world war two fighter plane in the same session, it looked like the famous supermarine spitfire in full detail. Caapi tells a story when you drink it with eyes closed, she teaches you things, the most beautiful "realistic visions" that no other entheogen comes close to showing you, these realistic visions go on for long periods.

THH with open eyes: everything is brighter and extremely colorful, beauty enhancement is over the top...neon-diamondlike is my best description, like looking down thru several meters of clear blue ocean water on a bright sunny day.

All of the closed eye visions for me begin with colored sparkles and geometric dots and ziggly lines in orange, green, and blue that dart around and then progress to the monochrome visions for 1.5 to 2 hours. These visions are WAY beyond 4k, and highly detailed. The DMT adds brightness and color to the visions, for example, animals seen will have colored patterning. It also adds strong psychedelic alterations to the journey. Music will sound very alien & incredibly good.

In one past journey, saw three beautiful naked woman dancers twirling in front of stone pillars that rotated slowly. Jungle scenes lit up by the moonlight, full of snakes and palm trees by the beach and lots of people I had known in my life in floating bubbles that were to the left and right of the scene, drifting up into the sky. Elephants from India embellished with vibrantly colored jhools (saddle cloth) and heavy jewellery and sparkling anklets. Detached female faces of breath-taking beauty with freckles. Waterfalls in the middle of the jungle.

With another session, saw barely dressed women wearing futuristic clothing and bikinis of some sort, dazzling in it's design. A spinning vortex made of blue color with closed eyes that opened up in front of me that looked like a wormhole of some sort, I travelled inside of it, and was dropped off on an island in the pacific with wooden Tikis all around the perimeter of a small culture. I saw a chalkboard full of mathematical equations and scientific discoveries drawn out. I flew like a bird for nearly a minute over what looked like Los Angeles, as I could see the homes with swimming pools and parks below me.

I've seen pyramids adorned with gold sheen, architecture of the past and future, Egyptian scenery, vast landscapes, medieval scenery, it goes on and on. Everything is brand new as if newly created. Very similar to the Ayahuasca visions encountered by Benny Shanon in "Antipodes of the Mind".
#8 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:29:23 AM

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Part 8: New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.

New research: Morning glory contains 5 stimulating LSD-like drugs, soluble only in wine/alcohol, only sparingly soluble in water.

Positronic Ayahuasca brewing

Receptorome study: how traditional Ayahuasca & snuffs differ from dmt

Has the Mystery of the Eleusinian Mysteries been solved? by Ivan Valencic

For a visual high dose claviceps paspali (same fresh alkaloid profile as the fresh Mesoamerican Aztec/Mayan morning glory) ergot wine trip report prepared by LSD chemist Todd Skinner, reported in the literature: read Krystle Cole's 3 page report on page 2 post #32 of morning glory link above.

She saw "constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head."

It just so happens that the ancient Aztec and Mayan also added the fresh or dried pulverized morning glory seeds to a drink containing alcohol, they learned this would extract all the stimulating actives from the seeds:

Page 515 "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" Christian Ratsch:
The fresh or dried morning glory seeds normally were added by the Aztec and Mayan to alcoholic drinks (sugarcane liquor; c. alcohol), tepache (maize beer, chicha), and balche' (Schultes 1941, 37).

The merck index shows that (1) elymoclavine, (2) agroclavine, (3) chanoclavine & (4) penniclavine in the seeds are best soluble in alcohol (sparingly soluble in water).

(5) Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) in the seeds only survives outside the seeds in an acidic environment (example: such as cold sherry wine which is already at ph=4). LSH decomposes in ionic conditions, neutral water (plain water), when heated, or in alkaline environments. See very bottom attached illustration of how LSH decomposes to LSA unless extracted into acidic water, wine, etc.

Important new 2020 receptorome binding data just came out this year that is available for LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide found in morning glory seeds. See below:

5-ht2a, 5-ht2b, 5-ht2c, adrenal A1A, adrenal A1B, adrenal A1D, adrenal A2A, adrenal A2B & adrenal A2C

This is important as it shows LSH binds to just about all the adrenal receptors, while LSD only binds to one of the adrenal receptors: A2A in comparison (as far as adrenal receptors are concerned). See chart below: DMT, mescaline & psilocin all bind to many of the adrenal receptors. The adrenal receptors are implicated in the perception of aesthetics, beauty.

This may explain why the semi-synthetic man-made LSD has been perceived by many to have less aesthetic appreciation than the natural entheogens: LSH, mescaline, Ayahuasca (harmine + tetrahydroharmine + harmaline) with Caapi, dmt, psilocin. It's man-made quality may be more perceptable due to it's lack of significant adrenal agonism, which is prominent with the natural entheogens.

Example: Mescaline has a rating of 4.00 at adrenal A2C (see below), 4.00 = max = off the charts, and anyone who has ever consumed cactus knows the appreciation for beauty is "thru the roof" or "over the top".

Important teamwork is going on between LSH and penniclavine in the seeds, the 2 highest alkaloids. Agroclavine and penniclavine in the seeds (metabolite of agroclavine) bind to 5-ht1a, 5-ht2a, 5-ht6, 5-ht7, adrenal A2A, A2C, A2D, and most of the dopamine receptors in comparison. See "Agroclavine & Penniclavine radioligand (receptorome) data, Planta Med. 1996 Oct; 62(5): 387-92."

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max (off the charts), 0.00=min, X.XX=receptor is hit but we don't have strength data.
LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57
LSD: -A-2D = 0.00, LSH: = 0.00, penniclavine = X.XX, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1A = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1B = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
LSD: -A-1D = 0.00, LSH: = X.XX, penniclavine = 0.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 0.00, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00
I don't know if you remember morninglory seed from long ago? He was on another forum. Here is one of his old classic posts that makes alot of sense:

Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract is performed and they are thrown away.

Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seeds feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.

The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports. So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling. Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as eating the whole seeds.

The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different ones.

Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip.

The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others (up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is (in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.

Example page from Merck on agroclavine (found in morning glory seeds):
agroclavine is soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble.

From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32:
Agroclavine is readily soluble in organic acids, agroclavine is stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water". Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol.

The hard data is lacking on whether the alkaloids in the seeds are in the freebase (like morninglory seed above describes) or in the salt form. Alkaloids such as mescaline and dmt are found in the salt form in the plant, and are readily water soluble. However, these half dozen alkaloids from morning glory are found within the tiny rubbery like embryo found within the seed.

To be on the safe side, extract into wine, as this will extract the alkaloids should they be in freebase form. This will give you an extract that is no different from "eating the seeds". Morninglory above is right in that the plain water extract is no where near similar to "eating the seeds" or an acidic wine extract (editor preferred).

(1) Hermes (the Lycaeum) "Saw strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are around 32 to 36 seeds to a gram. So 12 to 14 grams is 400 seeds to 500 seeds. I extract into water pre-acidified with a squirt of lemon juice. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything. I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing, all of this with nothing more than 500 seeds."

(2) Nogal (the Nook) "Yes I know of someone who tried the CWE method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffee grinder in place of a stone metate (I think that's what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form (again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin)."

(4) Piper methysticum: "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing."

(5) Myself, 400 black hard fresh seeds right off vine, grown in 75% miracle grow & 25% cow manure compost: extracted with 2 shots (60ml) of fresh just opened cold sherry wine with added 10mg of DL tartaric acid powder added (auction sites or *ma*on), and stirred together in the wine really well.

DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 10mg DL tartaric acid to the 2 shots (60ml) of sherry wine...too much DL tartaric acid can upset ph balance of the body and you will feel really bad...10mg will keep ph no lower than 3.5. The wine will go from natural ph=4 down to ph=3.5, but no lower. You will need a 1mg (0.001g) electronic scale to do this, like the AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g scale for example. It needs to be DL tartaric acid and not just plain L tartaric acid, The d-form salt is the form LSD is active as for example, not the L-form.

You crush the seeds inbetween a paper plate with ends folded in, you hammer the plate on a concrete surface, then you add the crushed seed powder to a coffee grinder, and grind it till it is nearly a dust...then you add the dust like seed powder to the 60ml of cold sherry wine in a tall 1/2 pint jar, then you let it sit in fridge for 3 hours, with shaking & stirring once per hour.

Then at the end of 3 hour period, you decant off the top liquid from the seed debris at the bottom....filter the sherry wine liquid thru a cotton ball in a funnel which sits in a jar, change out the cotton ball when or if it clogs, I usually have to change the cotton ball out once or twice, the top of the cotton will turn black or dark brown. The cotton ball will remove ALL the nauseating debris from the sherry wine/seed mixture. You will be left with a golden clear to light brown golden liquid, this is what you drink--no nausea as all the debris has been removed!

Before you consume, always remember to keep the 2 shot sherry wine extract of the morning glory seeds cold at all times (in the fridge) as acetaldehyde boils off at room temp or 69 degree F. You don't want your LSH decomposing to LSA do you? You can freeze it too if you plan to use it at a later time.

I saw geometric patterns on the surface of everything, with closed eyes, colored vectors spun 360 degrees while traveling from left to right across visual plane. Sounds were not only amplified & music heavenly but audio hallucinations were produced, heavy euphoria component & very strong appreciation for beauty. Remember watching Scarlett Johansson interview on a small television and melting into the seat from her beauty amidst all the breath taking geometrics. Tripped hard as hell.

Note: Cold sherry cooking wine is recommended as an extraction solution since it is already at ph=4 and is 18% alcohol, and is also very cheap ($5 per bottle). It can be found in the wine isle of any grocery store, and is often on sale. It also contains 10mg acetaldehyde per each shot (30ml). A $9 wine preserver canister can be bought at Amazon which contains a gas mixture of argon, carbon dioxide & other inert gases which can be sprayed into an open bottle of sherry wine before sealing cork to preserve the wine indefinitely, otherwise the acetaldehyde in the wine converts to acetic acid over time, giving the wine a vinegar taste. The wine preserver contains enough gas to last for years of sealing many bottles.

2016 Polish morning glory study found 3x higher amounts of LSH in MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail:
seeds direct from growers: 1.71 LSH to 5.08 penniclavine ratio
seeds off retail racks: 0.54 LSH to 4.75 penniclavine ratio
Immediately vacuum pack and freeze freshly picked dark hard black seeds off vine to preserve potency indefinitely.

Erowid report:
400 older dried seeds is similar to a little less than one hit LSD. 400 fresh off vine is like about 2 or three hits.

Seems this does do alot more, its alot more refined, clean, less body high all mind high.. i extracted 700 riveas into 100 ml of lemon juice , 50ml water .. that sat 9hrs in the fridge(water stayed the color of lemon juice but smelled like alkaloids) i filtered and added 100ml of sherry wine and that sat 6hours..

A buddy and i sampled 12ml of this and the effect is way different from just eating the seeds or just a simple water extract..

No body feelings AT ALL, not even the normal body buzz.. just a extreme lsd like head and abstract thoughts, better sense of understanding.... Real soon i am def going to try a large dose ..I Feel GreaT...I will no longer do it any other friend says the same.

Norman said on 16 September 2019:
Years ago I stumbled across a simple method for dosing HBWR.
Grind the seeds and cover them with white wine, let sit in the fridge for a day or so, shaking occasionally, decant, filter and drink.
No nausea no aches no vasoconstriction.
I am now off alcohol completely so I’m thinking of an alternative method short of a full on extraction.
I’m convinced that something in the wine besides water and alcohol is what makes the trip so clean. I’ve tried twelve percent water alcohol mixes in the past and still had the nasty side effects and at the same time the trip is not as strong.
I’m thinking acetaldehyde and or tartaric acid may be involved or at least a good place to start.
Any thought on what chemically may be going on?

Vecktor (advanced chemist):
You have probably rediscovered something that has long been a curiosity, for example on the now defunct blacklight site there was TLC posted of morning glory seed extract treated with methanol, acetaldehyde-methanol or with acetaldehyde-methanol-water, the extract treated with acetaldehyde-methanol showed a clear difference in the alkaloid profile, with a shift to several new non polar spots which couldn't be identified. IIRC Erhlichs was used to develop the plates so these were indole compounds.

I know some of you out there are apt to believe the statements above because you've failed at making LSH and those statements above help you feel better about you're failure. Don't fall victim to that kind of crap. Try it again. Find out what you did wrong. When it works, the difference is HUGE, not a tiny difference, the experience is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. SWIM knows the effects of LSA and LSD very well. He’s used them many times. He guarantees that when the reaction works, there is NO NOTICEABLE LSA left at all in the experience. It becomes almost identical to an LSD experience at low doses. Totally different from LSA.

According to Albert Hofmann (the inventor of LSD), LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde. Adducts are very simple to make. You just mix them in solution, that's all.

The effect of adding acetaldehyde is HUGE. SWIM cannot feel any leftover LSA when the process is done right. So, like I said, I think those guys don't know what they're talking about and I believe Hoffman does, and that LSH is an adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde and nothing more. No complex reaction is needed to make it. You just mix the two together and LSH forms. And I believe all of the LSA forms LSH, not just a small amount of it because you cannot feel any of the effects of LSA after this is done right.

When the conversion from LSA to LSH is complete it feels COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The reason some people can't tell the difference is because their conversion failed. It doesn't always works, but when it does, the difference in effects are night and day. No one would ever think the effects of LSH are anything at all like LSA. It's that different.

fastandbulbous (chem wizard from bluelight):
Apparently N-(1-hydroxyethyl)lysergamide (LSH) is an adduct compound formed from lysergamide (lysergic acid amide, LSA/LAA, LA-111) and acetaldehyde. This hints towards the idea that isn't the most stable of compounds, but would be pretty easily formed by the combination of lysergamide (LSA) & acetaldehyde under physiological conditions (ie a way to get much more & better psychedelic activity from any lysergamide extracted from seed sources).

Chemist Peter Webster who spoke at the LSD symposium:
LSH is a labile adduct of ergine (LSA) and acetaldehyde.

Mid April: I am growing a small fence line of heavenly blue morning glory, so I will let you all know how my new dream experiences go this October or November when I pick them out of the pods once hard and black, then immediately freeze them. The seeds all sprouted only 1 week after planting the seeds in the 75% miracle grow mixed with 25% cow manure compost, both from big box home store. I dug a small 2 to 3" trench into ground, and filled it with the soil mix, planted one seed every few inches, 95% of them sprouted one week later after watering them daily. I feed them 1 tablespoon of miracle grow powder mixed into 1 gallon of water in watering can x once a month only. This will yield seeds of very high potency.

The application of NPK fertilizer (miracle grow) + composted cattle manure increased crop yield by 48.9% compared to NPK fertilizer alone ---> from 2017 Frontiers in Microbiology, 05 Sept 2017 "Composted Cattle Manure Increases Microbial Activity and Soil Fertility." Some users report that their plants grew three times in size once they added miracle grow soil to their existing potting soil.

As you can see, I used zinc #212 "screw eyes" from hardware section of big box store screwed into fence after drilling a tiny hole for each one, and strung fishing line inbetween the eyelits, this supports the vine, this is how I have grown for years. Train the vine horizontally on the fishing line if you want and once the vine reaches top of 5' fence, it can cross over top of fence and continue to grow or droop downwards on opposite side, for many extra feet of growth.

Steps in the morning glory extraction (see very bottom attached photo):

I would suggest doing this under low light conditions, I personally replace a lamp in room with an LED Red bulb I found at grocery store in hardware section for five dollars when normally doing this.

1. eight grams weighed out on folded over paper plate, then hammered in between plate on concrete with hammer.

2. then the hammered mush was further ground in coffee grinder.

3. mush sitting in one half pint tall jar. (these jars can be found in canning section of stores)

4. 2 oz (60ml) of cold sherry wine added to mush and transferred to fridge for 20 minutes, shook hard every 5 minutes. (Shake hard three times or every 5 minutes during the 20 minute soak)

5. after 20 minutes in fridge observe course debris at bottom.

6. after 20 minutes in fridge, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel, press on cotton ball using straw when dripping stops to get all remaining light colored wine solution out.

7. observe wine solution dripping thru cotton ball, solution is light colored and free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris!

8. closeup of 1st cotton ball in funnel after filtration, it took out ALOT of dark colored debris that is nauseating to stomach and intestines.

9. closeup of first cotton ball used for filtration, super dirty black at top 1/3rd portion.

10. first cotton ball changed out half way thru process, as it clogged, then replaced with a 2nd cotton ball to filter out remaining liquid which was in the funnel.

11. The end! 1.5 oz liquid collected from starting 2.0 oz, put back into fridge until use. Heavy nutty flavor, 100 percent free of nauseating to the stomach and intestines debris. All the actives remain in solution while the debris has all been eliminated. Prepare for a very euphoric and lucid visual trip with deep insights...combines extremely well with other entheogens as well.

12) Wine solution when dabbed on cue tip and touched to paper plate, glows bright blue

13) Her, underground house DJ

Pics appear to be posted backwards, no matter how I re-list them, 1st photo at very right, then in sequence from right to left. Very bottom photo of screen = step #2 the coffee grinder.

Stay true to yourself, Love, Peace and Music
ava69 attached the following image(s):
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#9 Posted : 5/2/2021 1:49:17 AM

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part 9: 20 minute visionary visit from a dead Aztec Shaman

This is how I got into growing morning glory, thought would share as I feel it was more a message from the Aztec Shaman, also goes to show the visual power of high dose LSD made from ergot alkaloids, this really happened.

Over 12 years ago, girlfriend and I both dropped 10 hits each of super old 15 year old decomposed acid given to us by a dear friend, he had stored it in between the pages of a book all that time without using a baggie, when held in front of blacklight, only around 60% of each blotter glowed, rest decomposed. It had a sick feeling for the first 2 hours, but then it worked and skyrocketed us to a higher divine plane, it was very strong.

She and I both saw the exact same vision for 20 minutes straight which had formed out of the shadows cast by the fake Christmas tree lights onto the wall--a 20 minute "schooling" by an ancient powerful & spiritually prominent Shaman from Aztec era --- I have never had an experience like that ever again to this day--it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

The Shaman sat on a living chair made of spirit animals (birds, jaguars, otters, pumas, macaws, toucans) that morphed into other animals constantly, to the left and right of him were centaurs (half animal below, half naked female above), the great Pyramid of the Aztec capital behind him, and he showed me the rise and fall of several civilizations throughout time--and what is even more amazing--is that we both saw the exact same vision.

The Shaman wore a huge beautiful headdress made of feathers and the detail of the 20 minute animated vision was beyond 4k, and extremely detailed--it was also the vision in which I saw snakevines behind the centaurs, and before the Shaman left us at the end, he motioned to me with his eyes to look to the right of the living room out the window into the patio area where I had an empty garden plot--he was trying to tell me to plant entheogenic plants in the plot--that spring, summer & fall I grew morning glory in that plot on a large wide & tall wooden trellis cemented into the ground.

His point in showing me the rise and fall of the different civilizations was that I believe he was trying to tell me that "if humanity is to survive, the only hope is a Spiritual Solution".

In conclusion, post #8 continued here, ends here:

Below (1-6) from 1975 paper "Extraction and Identification of Clavine and Lysergic acid alkaloids from morning glory", see end of post #8 at top for latest "2016 attached 12 page paper", valuable morning glory study on LSH & other alkaloid levels found in morning glory from 3 different vendors, all levels very similar, collected from heavenly blue mg from 3 different regions located far apart.

The attached 2016 Polish morning glory study at end of post #8 (is somewhat similar to the 1975 study) except it shows penniclavine and LSH to be the 2 highest alkaloids, with the other alkaloids filling in the lower percentage.


1) elymoclavine = approx 17% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with elymoclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.

2) agroclavine = approx 25% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed than when animals were injected with agroclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.

3) chanoclavine = approx 7% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with chanoclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.

4) penniclavine = approx 25% plus of the heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with penniclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.

5) D-Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) = approx 25% plus of the heavenly blue mg. If the seeds are not frozen & stored properly, then over time LSH decomposes to LSA (Lysergic acid amide). So the seeds may contain a makeup of 1/2 LSH to 1/2 LSA a long while later, like retail rack seeds as the LSH decomposes over time.

6) Ergometrine = approx 5% of the heavenly blue mg.

From the 1957 paper:
All members of the excitor group produced in all test animals a syndrome of central sympathetic excitation and elicited a stimulation of spontaneous activity. In this group, elymoclavine, was the most potent stimulant and next come agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, and LSD which are almost equipotent, as judged by the degree of symptoms exhibited in the same dose. The arousal effect of elymoclavine or agroclavine on reserpine-sedation was superior to that of LSD.

Animal experiments have shown that elymoclavine, lysergol, LSD and several other ergot alkaloids such as agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene have excitory effects on the central nervous system (Note 1: Yui & Takeo, 1957) as well as lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) which also excites the central nervous system in animals (Note 2: Glasser, 1961).

The effects of agroclavine are similar to those of elymoclavine and LSD on rabbits (Yui & Takeo, 1957), indicating that the effect of agroclavine may well be psychoactive in humans as well. It also seems likely that agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) will be psychoactive in humans.

LSH = D-Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide in the seeds, we know it is similar to LAE-32 in TIHKAL, in which human experiments were done, at 1.5mg it was stimulating & "LSD like".

Glasser in 1961 noticed animals also became stimulated when injected with LSH. Dr. Glasser said some of the mice even stood on their hine legs and pressed on the noses of the mice in front of them, very peculiar.

Animal tests all point to LSH being an active psychedelic and it is indeed the closest thing to LSD found in nature, far closer than d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him that LAOH is very LSD-like.

It was Gröger who first discovered LSH in the seeds, published in his 1963 paper "Über das Vorkommen von Ergolinderivaten in Ipomoea-Arten". Later also Hofmann then extracted it from the seeds. It probably was in 1967, as Heim wrote in his work from August 1967 that Hofmann said he recently extracted it from the seeds (personal communication, as they knew each other very well).

LSD----------------------------------------CH2CH3-----CH2CH3.....chemical formula (C20 H25 N3 0)

LAE-32-----------------------------------------H------CH2CH3.....chemical formula (C18 H21 N3 0)

d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide-----------H---------CHOHCH3....chemical formula (C18 H21 N3 02)

Penniclavine-----------------------------------------------------chemical formula (C16 H18 N2 O2)

(1) The above experiments with mice, rabbits, cats and dogs who were injected with elymoclavine, agroclavine, chanoclavine alkaloids from morning glory can be found in "Neuropharmacological studies on a new series of ergot alkaloids" "Elymoclavine as a potent analeptic on reserpine-sedation" by tohoru Yui and Yuji Takeo, Hyg 911/LSD 494, Jap. J. Pharmacol. 7, 157 (1957). Jap. J. Pharmacol 7, 157-161 (1957).

(2) LSH experiments on animals: A. Glasser, Nature 189, 313 (1961)

(3) This is the paper that shows the alkaloid content of HBWR is vastly different from the alkaloid content of morning glory: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71.

No high levels of stimulating LSH, agroclavine, elymoclavine, chanoclavine, penniclavine found in HBWR seeds, only in morning glory seeds. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest minimal: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine.

We know that MG has centuries of Shamanic use, while HBWR has no history of Shamanic use. HBWR only has history of medicinal use.

Sandgrease: "HBWR has more of a sedative effect compared to MG."

Nogal: "HBWR is more body related while MG seeds have effects more similar to LSD."

4) Aum_Shanti, 2019, "In fresher seeds there's mainly LSH (in relation to LSA). Only in old seeds, the LSA is dominant. This is because the fungi on the plant can only biosynthesize LSH (not LSA), and LSA is then a decomposition product of LSH over time. The fungi on the vines biosynthesize:

from tryptophan-->chanoclavine-->agroclavine-->elymoclavine-->lysergic acid-->ergometrine-->LSH, which then decomposes over time into LSA."

(5) Psychotomimetics of the Convolvulaceae pg 93: "This particular plant seems to have been more important to the Aztecs in divinity then Peyotl or Teonanacatl, two of their other classical sacred plants."

(6) Jonathan Ott "Pharmacotheon": "Ololiuhqui was far more prominent as an entheogen here in Mesoamerica than those mushrooms; the mushrooms are mentioned only here and there by a few competent chroniclers; yet almost an entire book was devoted to denouncing mainly the ololiuhqui idolatry. The annals of the Inquisition contain many times more autos de fe for ololiuhqui than for mushrooms."

(7) 2016 Polish morning glory study which finds 3x higher amounts of LSH in fresher MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail: hxxps:// LSA is a decomposition product of LSH over time (see attached pics from study).

2016 Polish MG study:
Alkaloids abundance in all 3 HB cultivars is comparable, with most significant difference for LSH (Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide), which varies from 0.54 to 1.71 compound to IS ratio.

As has been demonstrated in this study, LSH is a labile compound, and therefore the variances in its concentration may be due to different age and storage conditions of the seeds rather than difference in plant metabolism. Indeed, seeds IT-HB2, which express highest concentration of LSH, were bought directly from the producer, whereas seeds IP-HB1 were purchased in retail stores.

[8] Researchers showed in 1961 that Claviceps paspali produces high amounts of LSH in culture: "Production of a new lysergic acid derivative (LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) by a strain of Claviceps paspali, Stevens & Hall".

Possible likely entheogen candidate used to serve hundreds of initiates at Eleusis in ancient Greece: this is where the Eleusian Mysteries were held, at the Eleusis Telesterion (initiation Hall for initiates...all men, women & slaves were invited) in ancient Greece.

Chemist Peter Webster wrote that fresh Greek claviceps paspali infected paspalum grass which grows adjacent to Eleusis in the famous Rarian Plane contains the exact same alkaloids as found in the fresh Aztec & Mayan morning glory. Albert Hofmann wrote that Claviceps paspali due to it's similar makeup to the Mexican morning glory could also have been the likely entheogen used at Eleusis to serve hundreds of people.

(9) Krystle Cole from the book "Lysergic":
"Isn't Ergot what Socrates used to take at Eleusis?" I thought it was kind of cool to be taking something that the founders of our democracy used to take, but that our current democracy has made illegal.

LSD chemist Todd Skinner replied "Yes". Todd had prepared 6 jugs of ergot wine and stored them for many years.

Krystle Cole's "ergot wine" experience (several pages long) in the book "Lysergic", reported that she saw constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head.

(10) sample morning glory wine trip report from Erowid: Morning Glory & Alcohol by Psychopsilocybin:
I would only note that she or he should have most likely extracted the seeds from the start immediately into the wine instead of extracting into the water first...then adding to wine later, as this will cause the LSH to first decompose to LSA in neutral water or water that is not acidic.
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Mitakuye Oyasin
#10 Posted : 5/3/2021 1:56:23 AM

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That is fascinating. I had never heard of HPBCD before now. The molecular arrangement and the fact that is forms a cone that substances can be 'hidden' in is really interesting. I wonder if this could be beneficial to other psychoactive substances than DMT. Thanks for sharing.
Let us declare nature to be legitimate. All plants should be declared legal, and all animals for that matter. The notion of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous.
— Terence McKenna

All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
#11 Posted : 5/3/2021 1:45:08 PM


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Hi, thanks for the research and tests.

I have limited time to answer, so please excuse the lack of links and mistakes/commissions - I'm going off memory alone.

1) I believe someone by the name of Inmotion had a DMT/HPBCD complexation thread. Someone tested it and in their experience the resulting powder was too bulky/not practical.
2) Why use a 1 to 1 molar ratio? As I understand it % complex and permeability increases with HPBCD as the complex is in equilibrium with the separate molecules. As HPBCD is increased, permeability reaches an optimal point since at some time excess empty HPBCD starts getting in the way (the salvinorin complexation thread discusses this and has some data and examples from the literature for some molecules).
3) We had some success making salvinorin/HPBCD buccaly/orally active here at the nexus, but reproducing it was spotty. Zebbie had success and strong effects buccaly using the green gunk from wa acetone salvia extraction (made powdery with some form of starch).

I wonder what would happen if spent salvia (from chilled acetone leftovers) was extracted with room temp acetone to get the green gunk and make the starchy powder that worked for Zebbie. Them mix that with DMT and test for buccal activity.

Also, as you may already know, FB harmalas are buccaly active on their own at 20mg in my experience (there are threads on that too).

Cheers and thanks again.
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#12 Posted : 5/3/2021 4:37:48 PM

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Part 10: One way to make tetrahydroharmine

Once you get to the end of your rue extraction, where you put your rue hcl in water and precipitate the harmine from the harmaline, you want to slowly bring the ph of the water up to exactly 7.0 with drops of 10% ammonia (from hardware store, the industrial janitorial version) 7.0 only the harmine will fall out, collect over vacuum filter...then raise ph to 8.5 and collect a small middle fraction, which you will want to set aside as it is a mix of some harmaline with some harmine...keep this fraction to add back in the future when you do another rue collect the 3rd fraction, which is the harmaline only at ph=9.0 and above.

Details: I dissolve the rue hcl extract into water on a stir mantel, and as the stir mantel spins....add drops of 10% ammonia to precipitate only the harmine 1st, then a very small middle fraction (harmine + harmaline), then a final fraction which is only harmaline. I prefer using 10% ammonia from hardware store (janitorial). Super good PH meter: Apera Instruments ph20 ph meter.

Now once you have your harmaline freebase...

1) place 10.5 grams of harmaline in a 1 liter pyrex cup style glass
2) add 900ml vinegar
3) add 40g zinc dust (from pyrotechnic places) in the pyrex glass too, use 40g zinc dust per each 10.5 grams of harmaline. You will see hydrogen bubbles rise from surface to top.
5) place beaker solution on a magnetic stirrer with stir rod and spin entire solution slowly
6) spin for 1.5 hour, the solution will turn from green to a transparent like color after 1.5 hour, use end of cotton q tip to place in solution and dab on paper plate in front of blacklight, it will now glow blue when transition is done...

7) once done with spin, let the solution sit for 1 hour, most (95%) of the zinc dust will settle to bottom, then filter solution over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted to a vacuum flask with vacuum trap in series with your vacuum pump, this will give you a transparent golden color liquid, use this solution for next step.

Throw away the zinc dust you just collected on filter disc (be careful, don't throw zinc on top aluminum foil in garbage or it will smoke due to hydrogen loaded zinc, best to put used zinc in a baggie with water to keep it moist, keep away from aluminum).

The pump/vacuum filter flask & filter disc will remove 100% of any zinc dust. so in other words, filter pyrex beaker solution (takes out the zinc dust) over a #101 9cm filter disc fitted inside a vacuum filtration flask hooked up to a vacuum pump, with a small vacuum trap in series, in-between the filtration flask and the pump. A good pump is JB platinum DV-142N 5 CFM heavy duty vacuum pump.

Cool you are left with a 100% clear transparent with just a touch of golden very light yellow color with no zinc dust at add (80ml of 10% janitorial ammonia per 2g of harmaline) this means add 400ml of the 10% ammonia to your will immediately see the thh crash out of solution as a white powder, place mason jar in fridge for 3 hours, the crystals will all be seen at bottom of mason jar.

9) you will collect 7.5 grams of pure white THH freebase on the filter disc sitting in your vacuum filtration flask once you pour fridge cold solution over a #101 9cm filter disc in your vacuumm pump, rinse THH with some cold water. put filter disc of thh in a pyrex tray, scrape off and dry under fan...pure white.

10) always this will happen: exactly 70% is the yield, as I don't know why this is so...but it's a great yield still. Even in TIHKAL, the yield was similar.

11) I should note that the zinc/vinegar method can be done without a vacuum pump using just coffee filters, decantation of top portion of solutions, leaving zinc behind at bottom after spun solution sits several hours, filtering top solution only above the zinc thru a coffee filter, filtering off only the THH crystals that fall to the bottom of mason jar in the fridge after sitting a couple hours, and decanting off the top layer, etc. All the fancy equipment just makes it go faster.

p.s. I also saw an episode of "Ancient Aliens" in which they discovered remnants of zinc dust inside one of the chambers, and they believe the Egyptians were making hydrogen gas using zinc and vinegar, speculating that the great pyramid was some sort of power generating device.

12) This THH at 300mg is extremely visual, it's an isomer of a hormone like substance made in the brain naturally. With eyes closed for 2 hours are seen endless slow and high motion movies of nature, architecture, culture, history, the future, way beyond LSD or mescaline visuals...very realistic, mind-blowing...and with open eyes, beauty is extreme (over the top) and there is spiritual joy....this is the best psychedelic secret kept under wraps...because hardly anyone has used it over 200mg.

Combine 250mg THH orally with sublingual 60mg of DMT complexed to 470mg HPBCD, add 10 drops boiling water, mash on a spoon for 2 minutes, pour under tongue and hold for 15 minutes...10 minutes in you will experience profound beauty with open eyes, heavy CEV visions of spinning geometrics, actual temples, and ancient architecture, neverending breathtaking immaculate visions...pupils very dilated, music sounds incredible. 90 minutes long. 300mg THH is where the visions really are seen well, if you are not used to it, there is some slight dizziness at this dosage for a short period of time, but none at 250mg. The DMT really adds to the visions as well & brightens/colorizes them, incredible combination, just like in Ayahuasca.

Thanks Mitakuye Oyasin for your response, yes this procedure will work with any freebase molecule that is poorly water soluble, it does not work with already water soluble compounds or salts.

Hi Loveall, I remember your post in that thread from back in March of 2019, thanks for responding.

It was Orion from 2019:
An amorphous clear solid remains. It's very brittle and shatters everywhere, so I lose some product.
His dry end product was prepared incorrectly, he lost product. I also think his first experiment of only using 10mg DMT was too low. The way I explain is very simple, 30 seconds to form a tiny amount of sticky liquid glob, I simply grabbed it with the end of my finger or draw up with a pipette and placed the tiny sticky glob under my tongue for 15 minutes, it all dissolved quickly...5 minutes later: very rapid heartbeat and pulse, dilated pupils, felt tryptamine buzz and rush take over my body then had CEV visuals and open eyed profound beauty and transcendent experience, music sounded incredible, euphoria and elation especially with the 250mg of THH I took 3 hours earlier.

It works if you prepare it the way I explain, guarantee it. I learned this procedure from the master of prohormone HPBCD complexes--chemist Patrick Arnold, see his link to his paper with HPBCD prohormone bloodwork on part 5 of paper above:

I am impressed with this route of administration as the 30mg sublingual dose was more powerful than any oral 30mg dose I've taken with harmine and THH combo in the past, way stronger and it was "all encompassing" similar to taking an actual hawaiian psychotria leaf brew--strong effects, powerful, not mild. See part 1 above, even 50 to 100mg doses of sublingual viagra found in studies were absorbed better than oral doses--scientist noted much less of the drug was needed, and it came on in only 1/2 the time of an oral dose.

downwardsfromzero said:
This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting.
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#13 Posted : 5/4/2021 7:08:32 AM

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Loveall said:
2) Why use a 1 to 1 molar ratio? As I understand it % complex and permeability increases with HPBCD as the complex is in equilibrium with the separate molecules. As HPBCD is increased, permeability reaches an optimal point since at some time excess empty HPBCD starts getting in the way (the salvinorin complexation thread discusses this and has some data and examples from the literature for some molecules).
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#14 Posted : 5/5/2021 1:32:40 PM


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Do you have any references to backup the statement that most studies use a 1:1 drug/cyclodextrin ratio?

What I have come across is that usually it is not 1:1 (see example table below).

Attaching a paper that systematically goes over what affects the ratio/preparation (complexation efficiency).

Also, both FB and salt drug forms complex with HPBCD as I understand it.

Setting all that aside, I think you have a promising experimental claim. I'll try to replicate it at some point. If it works I would test higher HPBCD ratio also, let the experimental results see if there is a modulation/improvement.
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#15 Posted : 5/5/2021 3:08:40 PM

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Loveall, thanks for response and hope to hear from you in future should you try an experiment. Thanks for your table. Your table indicates even higher molar ratio examples of "host drug to HPBCD, or rewritten as drug:CD molar ratio" as the first sentence in your table indicates.

Loveall said:
Also, both FB and salt drug forms complex with HPBCD as I understand it.

HPBCD only forms inclusion complexes with non-polar compounds. With a hydrophobic interior and hydrophilic exterior, cyclodextrins form complexes with hydrophobic compounds. Hydrophobic molecules are usually nonpolar, like freebase DMT for example. Hydrophobic literally means “the fear of water”

HPBCD is a new technology that allows freebase nonpolar drugs like DMT to be trapped by the cyclodextrin inner hydrophobic cavity which is composed of an inner "non-polar trap", and "outer polar cavity or hydrophilic exterior cone" which allows the normally water insoluble DMT to be made 100% water soluble.

As mentioned earlier, only a portion or "tail end" of DMT molecule needs to be trapped in the HPBCD cone...I wonder if more than one DMT molecule can trap itself inside "just one single HPBCD molecular cone"? Maybe downwardsfromzero has an answer.

If so, I can see how much less HPBCD can be used. The DMT molecule is very small compared to the inner HPBCD cone. Using much less HPBCD would prove a valuable experiment.

Notice the authors of the ofloxacin HPBCD study not only used a 1:1 molar ratio like I copied, but they also "kneaded" or mashed the HPBCD into the host drug with their hands, just like I did with the HPBCD placed on top the DMT in the spoon with many drops of water...I used the end of a spoon to crush and mash or knead it all together into a sticky glob (just like cartoon above) with 30 seconds of stirring with a toothpick, then placed sticky glob under tongue for 15 minutes.

Girl & boy caught in waterpark tornado funnel ride, picture host drug being caught in HPBCD cone.
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#16 Posted : 5/5/2021 6:34:14 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here - thanks for posting.

I've seen anecdotal reports of quidded D. cabrerana leaf being active.
#17 Posted : 5/7/2021 11:51:54 AM

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The reason I put this in the Pharmahuasca experience that the combination of the two (oral THH taken 1 hour earlier) and sublingual under the tongue DMT for 15 minutes results in the "full monty", will give you an experience like strong cactus tea or true Ayahuasca, the full mind expansion transcendence. This is what a lot of people don't understand, is that Ayahuasca is teamwork between the various alkaloids.

Tetrahydroharmine was called by one researcher "the tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" to give an example of its remarkable visionary properties. It's an isomer of a hormonal-like compound found in the brain naturally, it's what gives Ayahuasca her telapathine or telethapy properties and hours of dream-like realistic closed eye visionary visions.

I've taken 300mg of THH on it's own many times and for hours with eyes closed I view endless dream-like visions, like slow and high speed movies being played for 2 hours, the detail is way beyond 4k, mind-blowing vistas...totally unlike normal dreams, she seems to tap into the "Akashic record" of the universe, the ether where all events, past, present, and future are stored...she shows you artwork, architecture, nature, culture, fantasy, history, the future, spiritual, supernatural. The visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest.

DMT according to two studies posted in part 2 does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does (like ibogaine, cactus, LSD, mushrooms), serotonin blocking results in stimulation and the breaking down of the survival filters or barriers in the mind, the combination of the two results in not just 20% receptor stimulation from the DMT alone, but 100% receptor stimulation, as 5-ht1a inhibition (serotonin blockage) makes up over 80% of brain 5-ht according to LSD scientist Dr. Nichols. Tetrahydroharmine has also been shown to agonize the A2A-A2C receptors, just like mescaline, they have numerous receptorome similarities.

You will notice with the combination of the two that music sounds incredible, closed eye visions are seen like those of "true Ayahuasca" described in "Antipodes of the Mind" by Benny Shanon, or cactus tea. Open eyed beauty is profound, impossible neon colors not seen on this earth become apparent.

Out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.
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#18 Posted : 5/8/2021 2:12:07 PM

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redgreenvines said:
well you can mix me up a batch
I would love too! But since I can't just buy some HPBCD powder, dirt cheap.

Ferdinando said:
mescaline is a second
Full bodied cactus tea from 1 x 12" bridgesii or 2 x 12" medium thickness to 1 x 12" large thickness San Pedro is my absolute favorite, have done over 90 times now over many years, totally bad ass. The 250mg oral THH + 30mg on up sublingual HPBCD DMT ranks in the same, both equally VERY bad ass. I keep a trip diary over a period of many years. I've done Ayahuasca x 70 times now.

Tyrannicalrex said:
I'm about to try cactus/mesc extraction HcL more than likely. I have a couple kilos of MHRB, probably a lifetime supply, lol. I could get 36 grams of DMT from them give or take.
Tell you what, just cut the cactus down the sides (de-core it), cut into chunks, peel the skin off each chunck, and boil the pieces for 1 hour, then strain thru a strainer and drink--so easy and kicks much ass--full bodied complete spectrum. Also, so glad to hear you have a lifetime supply of MHRB.
#19 Posted : 5/9/2021 9:54:57 PM

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part 11: How to easily extract 2.3g DMT from 170g bark using a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask

For the HPBCD DMT experiments, extracted DMT as described below:

1) A procedure based on my own chemist tek, which yields 1.5g DMT from 150 gram powdered bark: all 4 pulls are using 90ml naptha on 150g powdered bark mixed into 1.8 liter lye water (1.5 x 150g bark = use 225g lye dissolved into the 1.8 liter 150 degree hot water.) Just heat up 1.8 liter of water in a big pyrex pot on stove and use thermometer to pull if off when it reads 150 degree F.

Slowly sprinkle lye using safety goggles and long chemical resistant gloves that go up each arm, and stand back as far as possible...(the hot water will fizz but not boil up) into your pyrex pot of hot water. After each sprinkle, stir the water a bit with a super long metal spoon. It will "growl" a bit as it fizzes, but this way it dissolves very fast into already hot water.

Pour this lye water into your 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask using a large automotive funnel. Add 150 grams of finely powdered bark, and use a long chopstick or similar to mix it all together.

Use (.6 x 150g bark = 90ml naptha pull for each of the 4 pulls). An erlenmeyer flask makes it easy to do pulls using a long glass pipette, as the top of flask is tapered, so all the naptha collects at the top for easy pull.

Use an electronic thermometer to check the temp of the Lye water bark mix, when the lye water cools down from 150 degree F to around 120 degree F, then it's time to add your 90ml of naptha, make sure your 2L flask is sitting on a mitten or similar...this makes it easy to swirl your flask to mix the contents, make sure you are using the proper rubber stopper number 9 to 9.5 to seal the top of your flask once you turn it upside down then right side up to mix the contents as well.

Prefer to do a combination of swirling and a couple of upside down then right side up turns of the 2L flask, then once right side up, let the rubber stopper out, and let the stopper just barely sit in the flask (not tight), so gasses can exit. After 1/2 hour, all the 90ml of naptha will migrate & collect at the top of the tapered erlenmeyer flask...use your long glass pipette to collect the naptha, that's it! very easy, no mess, and the tapered erlenmeyer flask and glass pipette with round rubber plunger at the end makes it easy to collect the naptha at the top without collecting any lye water by accident. This is the way a chemist can do it.

I highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes w/covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha, and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry.

Super easy instructions in post #50 for 1.5g DMT from 150g bark all in one day using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask and long glass pipette with rubber stopper on end for the pulls.

1st pull = 1200mg, 2nd pull = 200mg, 3rd pull = 100mg, 4rth pull = 50mg, done this x 3 times, each time yield always at or better than 1.5g. Most of the crystals are all stuck to the bottom of shallow dish each time, very nice!

No need to do a sodium carbonate clean on it, it's plenty clean already.

My procedure:
1) place 60mg of DMT onto a spoon
2) add 1:1 molar ratio of host drug to HPBCD powder, this means 1:7 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD, use a 1:8 mg ratio DMT to HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
3) this means 60mg dmt placed on spoon, then add 420mg of HPBCD on top DMT, use 480mg HPBCD if you are using the 2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin.
4) add 10 to 12 drops of very hot near boiling water to the mix from a coffee mug
5) Knead or crush the HPBCD powder into the dmt using the end of a spoon for 2 minutes
6) Take 200 to 300mg tetrahydroharmine orally around 45 minutes before. Then place sticky HPBCD DMT glob (HPBCD powder forms sticky complexes) under tongue for 15 minutes, press down with bottom of tongue the whole time to trap sticky liquid complex in the sublingual mucosa. Be sure to use bottom end of tongue to lick any off spoon that is left behind, you want to get it all.

At end of 15 minutes, spit out any saliva into a cup instead of swallowing. The combination of THH + DMT simulates true Ayahuaasca, but there is zero nausea, zero dizziness, zero queasiness since there is no harmine or DMT going thru stomach and intestines. 10 minutes in there are heavy CEV's of spinning colored geometrics, visions of ancient architecture, animals, aliens, you name it, it seems to tap into the Akashic record of the ether in the Universe, where all past, present, and future is known. Open eyed profound beauty, music sounds incredible, this all lasts for 90 minutes. You can redose more HPBCD DMT by two more times, around every 2 hours if you want.

Update 5/27/2021: I had an experience last night that blew my mind again for 90 minutes, took 300mg THH 45 minutes orally before as usual...then used 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD all mashed together real hard on a spoon for 2 minutes using 11 drops near boiling hot water from a coffee mug. I used the end of another spoon to mash it all together. My new improved method is grab all the liquid complex off the spoon using only the bottom of my tongue to grab it all, as it will all come off spoon and "stick to bottom of tongue". So easy and quick and efficient.

I held it sublingual "under tongue", and the walls filled with geometric patterns, and I saw waves of neon splashes of color wash across the room, it was AMAZING, I was tripping so hard...level 5 again on Shulgin scale, I LOVE this's worth the initial sting for 15 minutes, then the sting subsides over the next 10 minutes to nothing. I spit out any saliva at end of 15 minutes, but don't rinse out mouth with anything (any residual amount will keep on absorbing), the sting and numbness is gone 10 minutes this more than strong cactus tea, as it is dirt cheap to experience a level 5 trip now. Smile

The sticky HPBCD DMT glob looks similar to the cartoon below.

Erlenmeyer flask tapers towards the top, makes extractions easier using a glass pipette, as all the naptha collects in a narrow band tapered area near the top.

Yield from 170g finely powdered bark, followed instructions above using a 2 Liter erlenmeyer flask with 9.5 number stopper.

1st pull far left, dish + coffee filter = 1668mg
2nd pull in middle, dish + coffee filter = 517mg
3rd pull to far right = 155mg
4rth pull close to nothing
3 pulls get majority of it all (95%)
total = 2340mg

1) For 170g bark, use 1.9 Liter 150 degree water, when water, lye and bark all dissolved, liquid will all come up exactly to the 2,000 ml line on the flask.
2) 170g bark x 1.5 = use 255 grams lye
3) use 3 x 90ml naptha pulls, each 90ml naptha addition will rise 1.5" or so above 2L line on flask for easy collection using a long glass pipette.
4) allow 30 minutes for each naptha pull to rise to top for collection, this will ensure it all rises. Do pulls one after another, around 1.5 hour beginning to end, then you are done with 3 pulls.

The pre-heated water with mixed lye keeps liquid/naptha warm...I also keep a 60 watt lamp bulb with reflector close or pointed to back of flask the entire time, so each of my 3 pulls are around 125 degree F when I measured with electronic thermometer.

Highly suggest using these 5.5 x 7.5 inch pyrex dishes w/covers found at *almart, simply pour each of your 90ml naptha pulls into each of 4 dishes, stack them in the freezer, 8 hours later, pour off naptha thru a coffee filter secured to a wide one-half pint jar to collect any xtals floating in the ice cold naptha (seen above attached with clothespins to a 1/2 pint wide jar), and simply scrape up all the xtals from your square pyrex once it is bone dry.

It's very important to let your dishes sit undisturbed for a long while, these dishes sat in freezer for 12 hours during day (11am till 11pm), then overnight for 8 hours.

This is the stuff used in all the HPBCD complexed DMT experiments with 250 to 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes earlier. The HPBCD DMT can be used sublingually (all dissolves in 15 minutes) with 90 minutes of strong activity, and re-dosed every 1.5 hour x 2 more times at night...or dissolved into a 2oz hot water tea with 200mg harmine and 250 to 300mg THH already dissolved into it, use 100mg or so of crushed vitamin C to help harmalas dissolve should they be in freebase form, either way, sublingually or orally, the HPBCD DMT is exact same strength, the oral HPBCD DMT is several factors stronger than DMT salts in my experience, just like using actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria.

The 250mg to 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before with the 80mg HPBCD DMT used sublingually (or orally dissolved with harmine + THH hot water tea all drank at exact same time) simulates 600mg of "super mescaline" in my experience, but dirt cheap compared to the expensive and rare cactus, great for use indoors, saving precious cactus for outdoors only.

Colors will only be neon-colorful, music will only sound bad-ass incredible, beauty enhancement will be "over the top" and actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Important teamwork takes place with THH + DMT. THH also doubles the half-life of the DMT, so you get a full 90 minutes out of each HPBCD DMT dose.
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#20 Posted : 5/11/2021 10:08:37 PM

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Tomorrow I will be hitting two elves with one stone. I will take not only 70mg of HPBCD DMT orally with 200mg harmine + 250mg tetrahydroharmine orally all dissolved into a hot tea with some crushed vitamin C to dissolve the harmalas, and report back to see if the experience is similar to using an actual Hawaiian psychotria brew (which is always VERY kick ass super strong, all encompassing & very neon colorful with tracers that go onto infinity)...but after it wears off I will then take 30mg on up of sublingual HPBCD DMT to extend the trip, and bring back 60 to 90 minutes of DMT activity.

message to me:
What is the point of that procedure anyway to make an edible version of dmt?

This thread shows how to make in 30 seconds what is called HPBCD DMT, using only a spoon, some HPBCD powder, some DMT, and drops of water.

When you for example make a hot tea with some crushed vitamin C to help dissolve the harmine and thh, and add 180 to 230mg harmine to the tea, along with 150 to 250mg of tetrahydroharmine to the tea, and also add 70mg of HPBCD complexed DMT to the hot tea, it could give you a powerful Ayahuasca experience that is VERY similar to using an actual hawaiian psychotria brew, far more powerful and all encompassing than using 70mg of freebase DMT or 70mg of freebase salt formed from fumarate or DMT salt made by dropping DMT freebase into coca cola or orange juice, etc.

What we are beginning to discover is this: The HPBCD "encapsulated and trapped DMT" theoretically could be forming enhanced modes of transport and delivery of DMT similar to how oral psychotria leaf gives an experience that is much more powerful and all encompassing and colorful than using normal plain DMT crystals.

The experiences from the Hawaiian psychotria brew Ayahuasca tea are always +4 to +5 on the Shulgin scale for myself in over 70 Ayahuasca sessions, while multiple experiments with several people in the Clearlight sessions found the DMT extracted crystals gave only mild experiences (+3 max) even when using doses up to 100mg.

I myself even used doses of oral dmt crystals at doses from 70 to 120mg, and found them all mild as well (+3 Shulgin scale) compared to the VERY strong Hawaiian psychotria experiences (30 to 35 gram tea), just like mind-blowing Jungle Ayahuasca.

Experiments that involved several people found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, the leaf brews were very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood.

However, the HPBCD complexed DMT seems to greatly alter the transport, absorption & digestion of DMT freebase crystals, resulting in powerful experiences sublingually so far, perhaps even resulting in oral powerful Ayahuasca similar to those brews using actual Hawaiian psychotria leaf in them.

downwardsfromzero wrote:
This combined with the HPBCD complexation results (which we really ought to replicate and confirm) makes me wonder whether there are saccharides in leaf brews which perform a similar effect to HPBCD. There is still so much scope for really interesting research here -thanks for posting.

This is indeed fascinating downwardsfromzero, thanks for that keen observation on the sacchardies, perhaps they do function similar to HPBCD? Note: this procedure will work with any freebase molecule that is poorly water soluble, it does not work with already water soluble compounds or salts.

Jagube said:
I've seen anecdotal reports of quidded D. cabrerana leaf being active.
Excellent observation Jagube.

69ron posted 8/12/2009:
People are getting pleasant DMT effects from sublingual Virola calophylla resin. I don't think it has that much DMT in it. So why does the resin work so well when DMT is so hard to use sublingually?

HPBCD DMT is very strong...I even used 30mg of it sublingually under tongue for 15 minutes and experienced rapid heartbeat & pulse, tryptamine body rush & buzz, dilated pupils, music sounded incredible, had cev's and open eyed euphoria and profound beauty. I took 250mg of tetrahydroharmine 1 hour earlier so it was more like a true Ayahuasca experience, but no nausea.
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