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What it means to be The God Options
 
Exitwound
#21 Posted : 3/29/2021 6:12:33 PM

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Ok since we are all just posting interesting thoughts here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O61I0pNPg8

My thoughts after watching this video:
- According to our current understanding of elementary particles, you have an uncertainty principle. This means that only after observer's attention field falls upon a particle a certain state is revealed. But prior to that there are countless other states that observed system could be in.
- According to some big minds, there is no free will. All was more or less predefined billions of years ago and the universe is just observing itself unfolding.
- Well if "God" is simulating another run of the universe - then why not simulate all billions of possible parallel states at once? Because the almighty stuff, you know? I repeat: all the parallel configurations of the particle system at once. This is just also would mean billions of possible parallel universes, we are just observing a particular one right now.
- What if psychedelics alter ability of our "observer" consciousness to collapse the wavefunction of the system in different state, thus bringing it into determined "observable" state, on a different from "normal" universes?
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
Seeingisbelieving
#22 Posted : 3/29/2021 10:08:47 PM

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I followed you up until here, "What if psychedelics alter ability of our "observer" consciousness to collapse the wavefunction of the system in different state, thus bringing it into determined "observable" state, on a different from "normal" universes?"

Are you trying to explain the multiverse? Are you saying we are able to experience the universe unfolding before it has unfolded? Tons of people including myself would be able to explain a LOT of crazy experiences if this was the case. Can you spend some time explaining this idea in a separate post?

 
Bisy
#23 Posted : 3/30/2021 7:12:28 AM

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what if you are truly and genuinely all that ever was is or will be? Could it be possible that EVERYTHING you experience is created entirely by you. Even the things that you dont like. Even that everyone can experience events of history as a similar memory.

What if collective conciousness was in fact your experience because you imagine and therefore create everything that you have ever experienced. Even the people that you meet, the ones that help u, hurt u, all created by you.
Everything i say is fictional, I just wanna be cool and fit in.
 
Exitwound
#24 Posted : 3/30/2021 7:12:54 AM

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Seeingisbelieving wrote:
I followed you up until here, "What if psychedelics alter ability of our "observer" consciousness to collapse the wavefunction of the system in different state, thus bringing it into determined "observable" state, on a different from "normal" universes?"

Are you trying to explain the multiverse? Are you saying we are able to experience the universe unfolding before it has unfolded? Tons of people including myself would be able to explain a LOT of crazy experiences if this was the case. Can you spend some time explaining this idea in a separate post?



Not sure if it's worth a separate post, here we go with more clarity (or even more confusion ahaha):

Imagine Schroedinger's Cat (SC for short), you must be familiar with the concept already.
SC is a simple concept illustrating wave function of probability, of cat being alive or dead. Until you open box and observe cat directly or put some probe inside, you don't know for sure the state of the metaphorical cat.
Now imagine that each particle in the universe around you (and inside you), is a tiny cat-in-a-box, but their qualities aren't just "alive" or "dead", but many vibrational states (electromagnetic, gravitational, etc). So all particles around us vibrate in many dimensions.
When you awake from sleep and open your eyes, you start observing, thus seing combined state of "Schroedinger-Cat-Particles" around you and determining how they look to you.
We humans and higher animals all do this and thus "condense" reality into its present state.

But what if your "observer", the thing that perceives the tiny cats around us, can tune it's invisible "dial of perception" and start collapsing cat-particles in a different state?

Because for mathematical and scientific reasons, all states of the system described by wave function are valid and "real", they just have different probability of being real upon observation.
So what if they are all real, just less probable? Isn't it so, when we alter our perception through entheogens or meditation or induce other visionary-states, we start to perceive the crazy things?Crazy things maybe are exactly that: less probable states of universe around us? But they are happening as long as there are observers collapsing those states into "real ones".

So from all this almost infinite count of states there should be some (very big) quantity of "Valid" or "Stable" states - which are more or less persistent, because they are not too crazy to be self-destructing or self-contradicting. In order to have material universe, particles have to dance in certain mutually-non-exclusive arrangement, so our observable universe is just one of such configurations.

To conclude by answering your last question: Yes, I am trying to explain multiverse. I think the universe is unfolding and we are perceiving the tiny part of its unfolding every given moment.

P.s. If you need to familiarize yourself with wave function concept, this video (Even first 2-3 mintues of it) is a good explanation of what it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKr91v7yLcM
It's basically a mathematical way of describing a system in a quantum state - sate of not-yet-being-determined-everything-is-possible-before-observed Smile


 
Seeingisbelieving
#25 Posted : 3/30/2021 5:43:12 PM

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Great write up exitwound.
You should definitely read "the holographic universe". Your ideas mixing consciousness and physics are straight out of that book.

Do you think our brains are collapsing the wave function or do you think it is just a phenomenon of nature such as gravity and thermodynamics? How do you explain the phenomenon known as annihilation, when a particle and it's anti particle collide and disappear? This phenomenon is happening all the time whether we observe it or not. We are able to infer what has happened in the past without observing the actual phenomenon at all. ex. Dinosaurs being wiped out by cataclysmic asteroid and the middle of the united states once being an ocean. Just because we did not observe phenomenon does not mean it did not happen.

The fact is these processes have been going on for billions of years before humans even evolved. I just hate the idea that we are somehow responsible for the creation of the universe by observation. It reminds me of the time period when the majority believed the earth was at the center of the solar system.

The subjective nature of our reality is just that, subjective. Once you die, your subjective ideas, feelings, hopes and dreams die with you unless you immortalized them in what we call culture. The truth is, after death, everything else continues on like nothing ever happened and once all humans die the universe will go on just the same. I find comfort in that fact.

 
Exitwound
#26 Posted : 3/31/2021 7:18:13 AM

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Seeingisbelieving wrote:

Do you think our brains are collapsing the wave function or do you think it is just a phenomenon of nature such as gravity and thermodynamics? How do you explain the phenomenon known as annihilation, when a particle and it's anti particle collide and disappear? This phenomenon is happening all the time whether we observe it or not. We are able to infer what has happened in the past without observing the actual phenomenon at all. ex. Dinosaurs being wiped out by cataclysmic asteroid and the middle of the united states once being an ocean. Just because we did not observe phenomenon does not mean it did not happen.

The fact is these processes have been going on for billions of years before humans even evolved. I just hate the idea that we are somehow responsible for the creation of the universe by observation. It reminds me of the time period when the majority believed the earth was at the center of the solar system.


This all ultimately drills down to the famous "does a falling tree in a forest make a sound?" problem.
I think: if there is a tree that fell down in a forest that was never observed and will never be observed by a conscious being, there is no point in even considering existense of this metaphorical forest.

Yes some things happen before our human lives began, but they were observed by various conscious beings and that's why we know about many such things.

If something happens outside of scope of "knowing about" of all beings, then what's even the matter of such event? It could, or it could not happen and nothing would change for us.

I have no doubt that having and "observer" is quite a firm requirement for material universe to exist, because without something observing things, the things themselves do not matter.
 
Seeingisbelieving
#27 Posted : 4/1/2021 8:42:25 PM

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Uh.. Are you saying that you believe that particles are essentially conscious and able to "observe" reality? What if we went further and discussed if the "conscious particles" observing reality are able to store information and they are sharing this information with other "conscious particles". Would this information sharing be why we observenon-locality?

Would that be implying that the world is consciously and intelligently designing itself? Our DNA is a prime example with its gene mutations and possible combinations and probabilities. This would imply that the universe is a self regulating system that quite possibly could be subjected to its own birth and death processes. Are we the only species that has consciously taken over control from nature and have begun making their own decisions regarding species evolution?

I like your ideas but I don't think I could say for certain that I agree that any of this is anything but random chaotic events that have been playing out over time. I think the organization and order that we see and observe is a byproduct of our brains organizational processes. I think the only way to truly know if we are wrong is by meeting another advanced race of beings (with different brains) and comparing what we have observed and learned about the laws of nature. In other words, we're stuck in Plato's old dusty cave with all of it's beautiful echos and shadows.
 
Exitwound
#28 Posted : 4/2/2021 10:19:17 AM

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Seeingisbelieving wrote:
Uh.. Are you saying that you believe that particles are essentially conscious and able to "observe" reality? What if we went further and discussed if the "conscious particles" observing reality are able to store information and they are sharing this information with other "conscious particles". Would this information sharing be why we observenon-locality?

Would that be implying that the world is consciously and intelligently designing itself? Our DNA is a prime example with its gene mutations and possible combinations and probabilities. This would imply that the universe is a self regulating system that quite possibly could be subjected to its own birth and death processes. Are we the only species that has consciously taken over control from nature and have begun making their own decisions regarding species evolution?

I like your ideas but I don't think I could say for certain that I agree that any of this is anything but random chaotic events that have been playing out over time. I think the organization and order that we see and observe is a byproduct of our brains organizational processes. I think the only way to truly know if we are wrong is by meeting another advanced race of beings (with different brains) and comparing what we have observed and learned about the laws of nature. In other words, we're stuck in Plato's old dusty cave with all of it's beautiful echos and shadows.


No I am not saying particles have consciousness, I am saying that in order to have "reality" there must be an observer of such reality. If there is no observer, then existence/non-existense of such reality makes no difference.

I also am not just saying that the world is consciously an intelligently designing itself, I am saying the world is consciousness.

Humans are, indeed in a metaphorical cave, but at the same time the exit isn't blocked - you are free to exit the cave and explore at any time. More than that, you were never in a cave, you just made yourself believe, that you are in a cave, just to understand how it feels to be in a cave.



 
tatt
#29 Posted : 4/2/2021 6:22:56 PM
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Good stuff Exitwound.

Many interesting points that I agree with, especially regarding conscious observation and the whole of the phenomenal world/universe. It takes 2 Smile

Life could possibly be a dream. I've thought about this alot. Dream, God, use any word, it's all pointing to the same thing imho.

Always liked this section from The Tempest Act 4, not entirely in line with this OP, though reasonable enough:

Quote:
Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.


 
Seeingisbelieving
#30 Posted : 4/2/2021 10:04:28 PM

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So my reasoning behind accepting your theory that everything is consciousness would lie at the base of all physical matter. Everything is essentially made from the same building blocks. All particles behave in the same random, unpredictable manner and can be measured knowing the laws of physics. Some particles exhibit greater influence upon reality than others. The combination of groups of particles has led to the formation of our brains which allow us to become even more connected to these building blocks through creation and destruction or cause and effect.

Our interconnectedness with nature which you have deemed consciousness, is where you believe you have found god? You are suggesting that consciousness can be viewed as a spectrum and we are accessing higher and lower levels of consciousness because we are accessing higher or lower vibrational frequencies and you are saying that collapsing the wave function in quantum mechanics is an example of a model that shows this happening?

Am I understanding you correctly?
I feel like an idiot trying to think about this sober hahaRazz





 
Exitwound
#31 Posted : 4/3/2021 11:50:01 AM

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Seeingisbelieving wrote:
So my reasoning behind accepting your theory that everything is consciousness would lie at the base of all physical matter. Everything is essentially made from the same building blocks. All particles behave in the same random, unpredictable manner and can be measured knowing the laws of physics. Some particles exhibit greater influence upon reality than others. The combination of groups of particles has led to the formation of our brains which allow us to become even more connected to these building blocks through creation and destruction or cause and effect.

Our interconnectedness with nature which you have deemed consciousness, is where you believe you have found god? You are suggesting that consciousness can be viewed as a spectrum and we are accessing higher and lower levels of consciousness because we are accessing higher or lower vibrational frequencies and you are saying that collapsing the wave function in quantum mechanics is an example of a model that shows this happening?

Am I understanding you correctly?
I feel like an idiot trying to think about this sober hahaRazz


Yes, correct! You summed it up well Smile

@tatt
Beautiful stuff, this poem.
 
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