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Phalaris Project Options
 
downwardsfromzero
#141 Posted : 3/29/2021 10:05:41 AM

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My recent, tentative experiments with Phalaris var. picta indicated this same toxicity problem when combined with rue tea. Something wasn't quite right and it didn't seem worth the risk to health (and possibly life) to continue without finding a safer path.

Quote:
I have hope that there might be more down to earth methods of making some of these species workable.

My inclination would be to try the clay distillation outlined by Era/is:
Era/is wrote:
Have you ever distilled the plant powder?

You can put a layer of clay in the still, then one of phalaris powder and then clay.
The powder thus does not burn and rising slowly with the temperature a liquid is obtained.
Some questions:
Which type of clay is optimal? Would that be dry clay powder, like bentonite? What material is the distillation vessel made from? What form of distillation vessel is used - retort, alembic, round flask or something else? Does the liquid distill over and collect in a receiver vessel, or can it be collected from the upper surface of the clay?
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Triglav
#142 Posted : 3/29/2021 2:33:33 PM

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I don't know where I got this idea that plants that grow in the same habitat (not all of them of course) can have good synergistic effects. In the case of mint I am aware the plant has some medicinal uses and could therefore be potentially synergistic with phalaris or phragmites.

Dithyramb you make an excellent point about this whole project or other similar NEW projects to be a lot of hard work and serious dedication. This reminds me why the various traditional knowledge systems are to be preserved and studied - especially now with the new fancy lab gear available the options are even greater. Also the old knowledge systems have put so much time (generations) into for example studying plants and their effects that we can never put in with our limited time and human resources. We should of course be careful and not make stupid acts.

Can anyone throw any more light on the clay distillation process ? Sounds very interesting and it might have uses in other fields that I have not yet thought about.

I am more and more drawn into different approaches to work with plant/fungi materials that are more "ecological" or don't use nasty solvents that cannot be obtained relatively easily like ethanol with fermentation for example. I am aware that this is the approach many members of this community prefer as well. This mood or approach to work more with the "naturally" available materials. Of course the whole idea of working with phalaris/phragmites is in line with this idea as well.




 
Jagube
#143 Posted : 3/29/2021 6:47:11 PM

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Does the distillation process come in when smoking / vaping the extract? Or is it about something else altogether?
 
Era/is
#144 Posted : 4/1/2021 11:07:27 PM

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Triglav wrote:


Can anyone throw any more light on the clay distillation process ? Sounds very interesting and it might have uses in other fields that I have not yet thought about.



Hi Triglav.
You have the name of the highest (sacred) mountain in Slovenia.

Do you mean distillation using a layer of clay, then a layer of plant powder and another layer of clay?

Jagube wrote:
Does the distillation process come in when smoking / vaping the extract? Or is it about something else altogether?


If is the distillation explained weeks ago, the alkaloids coul be extracted by exuding.
This system works also with cacti.

It is interesting because you can cut off the maoi's.
 
downwardsfromzero
#145 Posted : 4/1/2021 11:53:21 PM

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Era/is wrote:
Have you ever distilled the plant powder?

You can put a layer of clay in the still, then one of phalaris powder and then clay.
The powder thus does not burn and rising slowly with the temperature a liquid is obtained.

Quote:
If is the distillation explained weeks ago, the alkaloids coul be extracted by exuding.

To reiterate:
I wrote:
Some questions:
Which type of clay is optimal? Would that be dry clay powder, like bentonite? What material is the distillation vessel made from? What form of distillation vessel is used - retort, alembic, round flask or something else? Does the liquid distill over and collect in a receiver vessel, or can it be collected from the upper surface of the clay?
(Sorry if you're already composing a reply to this while I type!)
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Era/is
#146 Posted : 4/2/2021 10:05:32 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:

Which type of clay is optimal? Would that be dry clay powder, like bentonite? What material is the distillation vessel made from? What form of distillation vessel is used - retort, alembic, round flask or something else? Does the liquid distill over and collect in a receiver vessel, or can it be collected from the upper surface of the clay?

Initially I used clay that I collected in nature and treated at 450°C. You can heat the clay in a pan, also at lower temperatures. Using bentonite, kaolin or others I don't see much difference because they don't react.
Probably other minerals are also fine, each will give a different spectrum (spectrum of the alkaloid: taste, effect etc...) to the product you are looking for.
I used a pot turned into still using a lid of an still 25 centimeters in diameter. I also have a 40-centimeter one.
I heavn't heated with direct fire but with heated ceramic plate.

You can use the grass powder or the juice. Better is the dryed grass powder (dryed at room temperature).

The distiller can be made with glazed iron components/pots, stainless steel, ceramic copper etc... Copper turns a little green.

I collected the exudated steam by connecting a glass tube leading to a glass container. So you can see the formation of liquids or salts.
In the clay I didn't see great things but I didn't think about it. Your question is interesting.

With grasses it is simple, cacti instead must be processed A/B style or similarly.



Quote:
My recent, tentative experiments with Phalaris var. picta indicated this same toxicity problem when combined with rue tea. Something wasn't quite right and it didn't seem worth the risk to health (and possibly life) to continue without finding a safer path.

You can extract the alcaloids of phalaris for use them safely or better.
Every plant containing DMT contains also MAOI's and also the Phalaris contains them.

I didn't found a natural source of pure dmt without inhibitors.
The juremamine of mimosa can be destroyed/converted* by heating but is bot sure.

*Converted: it converts into another molecule which, however, bears the trace of maoi

In my opinion, crossing the border using maoi is like bribing to obtain the permit. Perhaps some psychoactive amines could replace the maoi but these are experiments and I do not recommend doing tests that could be dangerous.


I hope that we do not deviate too much from the argument of dithyramb, since it is dedicated exclusively to phalaris.

 
titus
#147 Posted : 5/3/2021 12:40:52 PM

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Thought I might contribute to this wonderful thread Big grin
I've been growing aquatica var. australian for a few months now, trying extractions but never getting anywhere. The most promising result I got was recently, when I ran an extraction on 70g late summer aquatica, 30g early autumn aquatica, 60g mid autumn aquatica and 25g mid autumn brachystachys, all of which had been frozen for varying periods of time. All I got from this experiment was a few mg of dark tan, needle-like crystals that produced no effects at all when smoked. Wah wah.

Partly in frustration, I decided to attempt a brew with the rest of my rue that I had lying around, around 3g. I harvested ~15g brachystachys and ~15g aquatica at 10am, and brewed this for 8h, topping up with water whenever it got low. This length of time was most certainly unnecessary, but I was doing other things around the house that day so I figured I would just keep it brewing until I was ready. I crushed the rue and brewed it in water for 1h with a bit of lemon juice (I don't think either the long time or lemon juice was necessary, does anyone know anything about this?). I reduced the rue tea to around 150-200mL, then drunk it, and then followed it with the phalaris brew, reduced to around 300mL? and drunk an hour later. I didn't feel any noticeable effects from the rue, but within 10 minutes of drinking the phalaris brew strong effects were already taking hold. I purged at around the 15 minute mark, and considering I was beginning to get a bit unnerved, I decided to have a hot shower to calm down. I lay down under the shower as it was getting a bit hard to move, let alone stand up for an extended period of time. At this point, there were noticeable muscle tremors, increased blood pressure and a certain numbness in my limbs; none of these felt particularly dangerous at the levels they presented themselves, but I felt these could cause some more serious problems if the dose was higher. From here on, the trip was extremely grounded, and almost purely mental and emotional. There were pretty much no visuals at all, apart from a few fleeting moments of coherent patterns. Very clear, and seemed to have a kind of agency that was very interesting; it would deliver these one-liners so drenched in contextual meaning that I could just instantly grasp them. It felt very healing and very much a teacher compared to anything I've ever encountered before. Effects peaked at around 1h after drinking the phalaris brew, and the effects subsided enough to get up and make food and such by around the 1.5-2h mark.

Overall, I can see enormous potential, although the physical side effects were certainly unsettling. I know there was definitely no dmt in this brew, but I'm not sure what the effects were caused by; 5-MeO-DMT is my best guess at the moment, but if anyone has any ideas please let me know. In a week or so, I'm going to try a purely brachystachys brew without any maoi, using more fresh brachystachys than I did this time. This way, I can confirm if it was 5-MeO-DMT (if I'm correct, 5-MeO-DMT is active without an maoi) or just if it's active without an maoi in general (and also so I can see if the physical side effects are as pronounced or present at all without an maoi). I'd be quite excited if this turns out to be the case Big grin I'll update on the results of this experiment when the time comes.
 
dithyramb
#148 Posted : 5/3/2021 1:02:29 PM

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Thanks for your report, titus! 5 MeO DMT is said to be active sublingually, not orally. To me there seems to be a higher likelihood of aquatica being active orally on its own (with built in maois), but who knows until we have done the experiments. As far as I understand, a "No BS teacher of truth" vibe and whole body/wholistic feel (vs the 3rd eye exclusivity and chaotic/fragmented feeling of DMT) can be hints for the presence of 5 MeO DMT

Unfortunately my Phalaris experiments have come to a stall. I got three harvests from my Phalaris garden, two in the winter and one in early Spring. Now they have flowered and are not growing back their leaves. The exponential gain of seeds feels good.
dithyramb attached the following image(s):
IMG_20210425_170147.jpg (4,018kb) downloaded 81 time(s).
IMG_20210425_170054.jpg (4,487kb) downloaded 82 time(s).
 
titus
#149 Posted : 5/3/2021 2:29:17 PM

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dithyramb wrote:
Thanks for your report, titus! 5 MeO DMT is said to be active sublingually, not orally. To me there seems to be a higher likelihood of aquatica being active orally on its own (with built in maois), but who knows until we have done the experiments. As far as I understand, a "No BS teacher of truth" vibe and whole body/wholistic feel (vs the 3rd eye exclusivity and chaotic/fragmented feeling of DMT) can be hints for the presence of 5 MeO DMT

I recall reading that 5-MeO-DMT was active orally, just that it wasn't particularly pleasant (and sometimes even fatal in some cases when combined with an maoi) by this route of administration, with there being more of a body load comparable to other tryptamines like bufotenine compared to when being smoked or taken sublingually.

Also, the holistic feeling definitely rings a bell, and I realise I probably should add a few extra details about the trip that might help narrow the active ingredient(s) down: the trip wasn't propulsive at all, as is the case with mushrooms and particularly LSD. It always brought me back to the moment at hand, and this made for an extremely slow passage of time (I was repeatedly shocked by how little time had passed); the sense of focus on the present was similar in a way to my experience with bufotenine, which lacks that disorientating and maddening edge of particularly LSD, instead leaving you pretty much mentally clear. Additionally, feelings of love were very strong, as was a feeling of understanding of fundamental properties of mind and reality; it was like I was feeling (in a fairly tactile sense) how information is collated by the mind into mental structures, the sum total of which forms what we call reality. So I suppose then that it had quite the analytical edge, but also this encompassing healing and emotional intensity.

But yes, we won't really know until some experiments are done, so I'll be sure to give an update on that as soon as possible Smile Once again, thanks for starting and continuing to work on such a fascinating thread!
 
titus
#150 Posted : 5/9/2021 1:44:59 PM

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Long story short, the phalaris brew without an maoi did not deliver the goods.

I harvested 30g fresh brachystachys and 15g aquatica at 10am (same as last time), and boiled the grass in around 1L (maybe more?) water for 4h with a bit of citric acid. After 4h, the grass was removed and the brew was reduced to a shot. Drinking this produced slight effects, but nothing I would call psychedelic. The furthest it got was slight numbness and occasional perplexing and tangential thoughts.

It's possible that alkaloid content has reduced since two weeks ago, as I recall reading somewhere that in the southern hemisphere alkaloid content peaks in mid April, but I'm probably more inclined to believe that nothing happened due to the lack of an maoi.
 
dithyramb
#151 Posted : 5/9/2021 4:20:03 PM

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Thanks, titus!

My gut feeling is that brachystachys won't be orally psychoactive by itself, but aquatica and truncata is likely. 15g fresh is not a lot, also growth phase of the plant makes a huge difference...

I have only tried truncata by itself because I felt a very strong spirit presence in it. İt really was psychoactive, not exactly in a tryptaminish way, but more like beta carbolines. Felt very good for me, and the loving and talking spirit presence was clearly there.

There are many variables in these experiments... I will go further in this study, just not this year - a fresh father is busy like no other time he remembers in life!

Cheers.
 
dithyramb
#152 Posted : 5/10/2021 7:50:05 PM

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Largest aquatica and brachystachys inflorescences from my 2021 garden

dithyramb attached the following image(s):
IMG_20210510_171729.jpg (3,307kb) downloaded 26 time(s).
 
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